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Meta Knight Officially Banned!
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
I think Melee without Meta Knight is more balanced than Brawl.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
You are full of absolute crap.
Fox being challenged for number 1 in the game? Sure. 15 Characters? HEEEEEEEELLLLLL TO THE NAW.
The only character that people ever even talk about being the best in the game are Fox, and Falco, and to a much smaller extent, Marth, Puff and Shiek.
And aside from those 5, the only tournament viable characters, Are Peach, and MAYBE CF. all that talk about Ganon and Doc and Samus being legitamate characters in that game is a load of bull. And I would know, I main Ganon/Doc.
They also nerfed Link.
>.>
/Sakurai hates Zelda
I don't think Kirby got a faster dash speed, but he is slightly heavier. (he's heavier than fox in PAL iirc, since Kirby's weight was buffed, and Fox's weight was nerfed).
Ironically, Marth's weight nerf helps him more than anything, as he does better vs Fox now that he falls over from shine. Falco's dair nerf really doesn't hurt him at all either, the spike is still there for the majority of the time.
Overall the balance is slightly better, but they still did silly stuff like nerf Ganon's fair heavily.
To be fair, Pichu shouldn't even count when talking about balance, it was designed to be the worst character in the game, it's trophy description reflects that.
Oh and someone mentioned Lucario earlier, so true.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Ice Climbers are tournament viable.
Falco's dair nerf is 99% irrelevant, yup.
This. Joke characters do not factor into balance.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
1. I disagree.
2. Phoenix Wright is/will be quite viable in Marvel 3. As is Roll in TvC. Also, Dan is actually fairly decent in SF
That might sound bad, but if you look at Brawl, it's not that different.
In Melee we have 6 characters all with a good shot at winning, with 2 semi-viable characters (Falcon and IC).
In Brawl with MK legal we have......1 or 4 depending on your definition of "viable", though I'd be inclined to say only 1 viable character, with 3 semi-viable characters.
Without MK legal, it's hard to say, but I guess the viable characters (without secondaries) would be Snake, Diddy, Falco, with Olimar, Marth, IC and Wario being semi-viable. (they'd be about the same level of viability as Captain Falcon/IC in Melee)
You're using a different definition of Joke character.da K.I.D. said:
Pichu was literally designed to be a terrible character, that should only be played in handicap mode, and if someone was to win with Pichu, "great respect should be given to them" or something.
Phoenix is designed to be viable, I'm assuming Roll is too, Dan idk.
Pachinkosam
I have no friends, Im dead inside
what a cry baby lol
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
Melee had 10 viable characters.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Fox, Falco, Jigglypuff, Peach, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf and Samus?
Yeaaaah... Not really. Doc, Ganon and Samus aren't really viable at top level, maybe high, but not top.
Yeaaaah... Not really. Doc, Ganon and Samus aren't really viable at top level, maybe high, but not top.
IDK why people are even thinking of using pichu when refering to the games balance.
if even said out right in its trophy description, that IT WAS MADE AS A HANDICAP CHARACTER, not a joke character that cna be viable, a joke character that was literally made to handicap the player using him, to give new players a chance against a more experienced player.
if even said out right in its trophy description, that IT WAS MADE AS A HANDICAP CHARACTER, not a joke character that cna be viable, a joke character that was literally made to handicap the player using him, to give new players a chance against a more experienced player.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 11,841
Kantrip
Kantplay
TrickLittleBird
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2011
- Messages
- 2
I'm sorry about my earlier post......It's just that, I loved using meta knight....I didn't even know he was broken XD
His white armour alternate color= epic....
again, I am sorry for the trouble I have caused....
His white armour alternate color= epic....
again, I am sorry for the trouble I have caused....
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Oops, forgot about Marth :3
Bones0
Smash Legend
You also forgot Sheik...
You have to take into account representation. As large as the Smash community is, we don't have a large enough player pool for tournaments to accurately reflect which characters are viable. The characters I could see placing in the top 5 at a national within the next year are (in no particular order) Fox, Falco, Falcon, Marth, Sheik, Jiggs, Peach, ICs, Doc, and Pikachu. That's 10. You also have a few characters who could reasonably break into the top in the future. Ganon, Samus, and Luigi all do fairly well considering their representation compared to the top tiers (plus, I'm sure if Shroomed played Mario instead of Doc he would also be in this area since they are so similar).
You have to take into account representation. As large as the Smash community is, we don't have a large enough player pool for tournaments to accurately reflect which characters are viable. The characters I could see placing in the top 5 at a national within the next year are (in no particular order) Fox, Falco, Falcon, Marth, Sheik, Jiggs, Peach, ICs, Doc, and Pikachu. That's 10. You also have a few characters who could reasonably break into the top in the future. Ganon, Samus, and Luigi all do fairly well considering their representation compared to the top tiers (plus, I'm sure if Shroomed played Mario instead of Doc he would also be in this area since they are so similar).
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
...I guess this would be a bad time to mention I won against a sheik/link combo as pichu with a bowser teammate at a friendly dubs match...? Granted, friendlies....but still, dead serious game....
I guess I also shouldn't mention that I got 6 of the 8 kills, and 2 of them were '2 at once' double kills >.>...<.<...
Unless the person is really, really good at pichu....Me and other NEOH-ians have used pichu for lulz and ended up wrecking other folks...Although that's prob more due to insufficient MU knowledge....So few people use/practice/expand pichu, so it's hard to be prepared against a "good" pichu at first xD
THAT is something people never seem to remember/understand, and I'm so glad you brought it up; tiers and tournament results are nice, but limited. I know of a fair few number of videos of AMAZING players for mid/low tier brawl n melee players who I NEVER see/hear mentioned at big tournies...I usually learn that most of them can't/don't go :/. Tournaments and tier lists can only show us the results of those who are near by or can afford/manage to attend notable tournaments. I myself rarely get to go to my NEOH tournies as I lack reliable transportation (and funds), I can't imagine how hard it can be for some folks to go half/all the way across the US to go to a tourny...
The biggest argument for/against tiers I try to make to people I talk to who aren't clear on fighters is that tiers are an indication of how well a given character is doing, and that it is NOT set in stone (usually); Just because character B is at 3rd place, or character A is at 2nd, does NOT mean they're cemented in stone and forever 'the best'. One need only look at melee/early street fighters to see the changes over a period of years for proof of that. Of course, that is a problem in this community because without reliable large scale pools of various characters being played by competitive/'pro' players, we cannot truly make a reliable ban, and as someone said some 800000000 pages ago, fighters are FAR from the easiest games to get people together, ESPECIALLY as the distance needed to travel becomes larger. Until such a time that more notable and big name tournaments start going to places other than CA/WA/NY/MD/Wherever else, we will only have so much info on the characters/tiers from which to make ban/tier list judgements, and thus while we're comfortable at this moment with the estimations we make of who would/would not be 'viable'...there's still so much unexplored potential due to the limitations of the data we've collected...(Not to mention all the people who play top tier characters for 'easy wins' and learn/copy all the top tier character's latest strategies instead of innovating the strategies....or innovating mid/low tier character strategies...)
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(BTW 'da kid'....How can you say 'MAYBE CF'?! He's been a reliable/strong character in the right hands for ages!)
The only thing that would actually settle a debate about whether Brawl minus Metaknight or Melee is more balanced would be tournament results. But this isn't the Brawl balance vs. Melee balance thread.
What I would really like to see is a few mid tier characters start to thrive in Brawl now that Metaknight has been banned. It would be proof for me that the ban was a good thing. But it is not likely.
What I would really like to see is a few mid tier characters start to thrive in Brawl now that Metaknight has been banned. It would be proof for me that the ban was a good thing. But it is not likely.
Pachinkosam
I have no friends, Im dead inside
what about marth wes great
Thino
Smash Master
Why are we even discussing Melee balance vs. Brawl balance, they're 2 different games despite being from the same series.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I didn't mean for things to go this way!
The low and bottom tier for Brawl are not just proportionately smaller, but they are also just better characters. Lucas is much more viable than anyone in Melee DK and below or so (please don't start talking about how great DK is, I don't care).
With that said, that's not because Brawl is a victory for fighting game design. It's only really because you can't get a kill on a low tier with a single read and thus said character simply has more chances to land hits. In Melee you have several characters who can't approach and have terrible defensive options, range, and recovery that also lose a stock in one or two reads. Brawl doesn't have that -- by design -- except in a few rare cases.
The low and bottom tier for Brawl are not just proportionately smaller, but they are also just better characters. Lucas is much more viable than anyone in Melee DK and below or so (please don't start talking about how great DK is, I don't care).
With that said, that's not because Brawl is a victory for fighting game design. It's only really because you can't get a kill on a low tier with a single read and thus said character simply has more chances to land hits. In Melee you have several characters who can't approach and have terrible defensive options, range, and recovery that also lose a stock in one or two reads. Brawl doesn't have that -- by design -- except in a few rare cases.
Esca
Smash Champion
A bunch of babies, you lot are.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
But when you see Bowser edgeguard fox or falco with his get-up attack from the ledge it is so funny to see.
honeyBADGER!
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2009
- Messages
- 92
>banning characters
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
...Every character in the game dies to one or two reads, it isn't a low tier exclusive thing.
Low tiers are just as unviable in Brawl, a Lucas will never make it anywhere in a tournament against intelligent players because he gets hard countered by several characters. It has nothing to do with the game's mechanics, and unwinnable match-up is still an unwinnable match-up.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Grim Tuesday, yes every character dies in a few reads but that only makes their glaring issues that much more severe, especially when tons of low tier characters suffer from chain grabs from quite a few top tier characters. The low tier in melee is just much, much much worse.
And yeah, Lucas is bad. I didn't say he wasn't.
And yeah, Lucas is bad. I didn't say he wasn't.
kirbyandsonicsuck41
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Messages
- 1
ban kirby and sonic then we can talk
Drake12
Smash Ace
You're arguing that they're broken and too good, or got a personnal grudge against em?
Anthon1996
Smash Ace
Look at his join date, then look at his name. I think it's the latter, Drake.
leffen
Smash Champion
I think its funny people think that melee low tiers are worse when you look at how much better they do than in melee.
Drake12
Smash Ace
Lolol. I hear ya, and I agree with that being the probable answer. But hey, we all start somewhere.
Also, look at his post count.
Fun fact buddy kirby and sonic aren't even close to being the best. They are not even high tier. Not trying to sound mean, just letting ya know.
Mr-R
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,544
melee is a bad, outdated, unbalanced game
Anthon1996
Smash Ace
Uh huh, definitely noticed that post count. Most likely just a mad novice Wi-Fi player. Hopefully he'll make good posts.
Mr. R is always one of my favorite posters. Entertaining to watch, entertaining to read.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
This is a pretty hard one to decide, but I'm gonna have to go with Melee for most balanced. I mean characters that weren't so good before actually get to become completely viable characters (Puff, Falcon, Young Link). Also there aren't so many completely unbalanced matchups like Pika vs. Fox, Falco, Wolf, Falcon, Ganon, D3 vs. DK, Bowser, Ganon, Mario, PT, Marth vs. Ness and Lucas, DK vs. Ness and Lucas, Oli vs. Zelda and Ganon, etc.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Brawl is more balanced.
Come at me bro. This is an '06er talking.
Come at me bro. This is an '06er talking.
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