Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Archangel]

I must say Many of you are so confused you seem to be confusing low tiers with the bottom tiers. Bottom tiers in melee can actually compete and take games sometimes even top 5 in tournaments in melee(rare but happens).

*Ness(see Mofo, Simna, AngryLobster, Toasty)
*Bowser(See DJNintendo, Warriorknight)
*Kirby(see KDJ, Hack, Kirbykid, Kuya)
*Pichu(ICG, KDJ, Unknown522)

Above are functionally the bottom of Melee. 4 worst characters in the game.

Pichu and Kirby are currently tied for the worst character in the game. So how can they do....

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mq_MxjP_j0

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR3Z0ecchYc

If Melee's balance is so horrible?

Fact is recent years have shown if your willing to take an *** whooping for awhile you can play pretty much any character you want at this point you just have to learn every match-up the difficult way. No brawl bashing intended but I don't think you could find a video of any decent brawl players beating good metaknight players with the 2 worst characters. Melee has plenty of them to spare.

The fault lies with the game designs. 50 ledge grab limit or not the game was not designed for bad characters to ever beat the great ones.

Melee it's designed for you to have a shot assuming you don't get frustrated and sell out for a top 8 character. However if you stick to a little longer you can **** people with anyone. Name any character in melee and I'll post a video of that character ******.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ICG has never placed anywhere or beaten anyone notable with Pichu...

Blunt, but true.

 

[Archangel]

ICG has never placed anywhere or beaten anyone notable with Pichu...

Blunt, but true.

I like how you pick one name from the pile. Nothing to say about Korean DJ or Unknown522 I presume?

by the way I was just putting in names I assume may be heard of. There are many more who's names escape me currently.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I like how you assume that I disagree with your entire post when I was arguing in favour of Melee's balance earlier.

 

[Llumys]

I agree that Melee's more balanced than Brawl, but no Kirby or Pichu is ever going to beat anyone anywhere near their skill level who's using any of the top ten, even fifteen characters, unless of course their opponent has absolutely no idea how to handle the match-up, but even in that case, it's a long shot.

/run

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I agree that Melee's more balanced than Brawl, but no Kirby or Pichu is ever going to beat anyone anywhere near their skill level who's using any of the top ten, even fifteen characters, unless of course their opponent has absolutely no idea how to handle the match-up, but even in that case, it's a long shot.

/run

*cough*

Arguably the 2nd best Marth in the world losing to a Kirby (and not even a Kirby main, at that).

 

[Llumys]

That never happened.

Also, it was fake, the Marth was sandbagging, the Kirby player was obviously much better, it was PAL, and Fountain of Dreams should be banned.

 

[Archangel]

I like how you assume that I disagree with your entire post when I was arguing in favour of Melee's balance earlier.

I like how you assume I was assuming

That never happened.

Also, it was fake, the Marth was sandbagging, the Kirby player was obviously much better, it was PAL, and Fountain of Dreams should be banned.

What do you mean that never happened? I just posted the video of it happening...also in the wake of M2k's retirement ICE is functionally the best Marth.

The arguement about nobody will ever do ______ has already been proven wrong. Pikachu was once in the same boat as pichu and well....

This happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yWDo-nh6fc

 

[Llumys]

Axe is special. Argument invalid.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wow... That was just.. bad, Spam.

Llumys post was dripping with sarcasm xD

 

[Archangel]

Axe is special. Argument invalid.

no Axe is first.

King was special in 06.

 

[Llumys]

Who?

I've never heard of him. He's probably not a character-revolutionizing player, anyway, so we can just disregard your last post.

 

[Archangel]

I see...............................................

have fun trolling someone else.

 

[Llumys]

Took you long enough.

 

[Archangel]

Took you long enough.

I don't take changes with smashboardians.

 

[Thino]

so someone explain me why we're still talking about Melee balance, when proving (eventually) that Melee is less balanced than Brawl still won't justify Metaknight's ban

let's stick to popularity contests, polls and stats

 

[Ussi]

I must say Many of you are so confused you seem to be confusing low tiers with the bottom tiers. Bottom tiers in melee can actually compete and take games sometimes even top 5 in tournaments in melee(rare but happens).

*Ness(see Mofo, Simna, AngryLobster, Toasty)
*Bowser(See DJNintendo, Warriorknight)
*Kirby(see KDJ, Hack, Kirbykid, Kuya)
*Pichu(ICG, KDJ, Unknown522)

Above are functionally the bottom of Melee. 4 worst characters in the game.

Pichu and Kirby are currently tied for the worst character in the game. So how can they do....

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mq_MxjP_j0

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR3Z0ecchYc

If Melee's balance is so horrible?

Fact is recent years have shown if your willing to take an *** whooping for awhile you can play pretty much any character you want at this point you just have to learn every match-up the difficult way. No brawl bashing intended but I don't think you could find a video of any decent brawl players beating good metaknight players with the 2 worst characters. Melee has plenty of them to spare.

The fault lies with the game designs. 50 ledge grab limit or not the game was not designed for bad characters to ever beat the great ones.

Melee it's designed for you to have a shot assuming you don't get frustrated and sell out for a top 8 character. However if you stick to a little longer you can **** people with anyone. Name any character in melee and I'll post a video of that character ******.

Ganon can win in 5 moves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfIIyvhEQy4

how's that for balance

 

[Flayl]

How many people think that if there were more tournaments like KTAR 6 that Meta Knight wouldn't be as strong? How many tournaments would we need to observe to reach a conclusion if the game is or isn't more balanced that way?

 

[da K.I.D.]

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mq_MxjP_j0

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR3Z0ecchYc

If Melee's balance is so horrible?

Both of those vids involve the opponent SDing twice in order for the garb tier character to win.

Not to mention in the kirby video, he eventually goes fox in game 5.

 

[JTsm]

I think there should be two rule set committees: One that bans Mk and the other that obviously doesn't. So each ruleset committee will have their own rules, tier lists, mu's and people can choose one or the other. Like Gimpyfish said in his latest video, a T.O. can do whatever the hell he/she wants. So T.O.'s can base their rules on MK banned(and vice versa). The URC is a group of T.O's and the other group(that likes MK unbanned) are another set of T.O's.

I think this should be a compromise because it allows both sides of the community to chose one or the other (or both!). And the best part about this idea(that I just came up seconds ago) is that you can compare the two and see what's different about the ban/unban groups.

There's too much controversy in this community and we need to come up with solutions FOR EVERYONE. Not just for the URC, not just for the BBR, not just for the unban MK group.

 

[Black Mantis]

I must say Many of you are so confused you seem to be confusing low tiers with the bottom tiers. Bottom tiers in melee can actually compete and take games sometimes even top 5 in tournaments in melee(rare but happens).

*Ness(see Mofo, Simna, AngryLobster, Toasty)
*Bowser(See DJNintendo, Warriorknight)
*Kirby(see KDJ, Hack, Kirbykid, Kuya)
*Pichu(ICG, KDJ, Unknown522)

Above are functionally the bottom of Melee. 4 worst characters in the game.

Pichu and Kirby are currently tied for the worst character in the game. So how can they do....

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mq_MxjP_j0

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR3Z0ecchYc

If Melee's balance is so horrible?

Fact is recent years have shown if your willing to take an *** whooping for awhile you can play pretty much any character you want at this point you just have to learn every match-up the difficult way. No brawl bashing intended but I don't think you could find a video of any decent brawl players beating good metaknight players with the 2 worst characters. Melee has plenty of them to spare.

The fault lies with the game designs. 50 ledge grab limit or not the game was not designed for bad characters to ever beat the great ones.

Melee it's designed for you to have a shot assuming you don't get frustrated and sell out for a top 8 character. However if you stick to a little longer you can **** people with anyone. Name any character in melee and I'll post a video of that character ******.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdTfv9OKu8Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF3Me06r0Hg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPe8z6p7WxQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQtaV03AJs&feature=related

 

[standardtoaster]

Circle_Breaker: Since you have a striped away character as your avatar. I agree with you 100% sir.

XD Striped Away. It's Spirited Away, lol.

 

[Thino]

I think there should be two rule set committees: One that bans Mk and the other that obviously doesn't. So each ruleset committee will have their own rules, tier lists, mu's and people can choose one or the other. Like Gimpyfish said in his latest video, a T.O. can do whatever the hell he/she wants. So T.O.'s can base their rules on MK banned(and vice versa). The URC is a group of T.O's and the other group(that likes MK unbanned) are another set of T.O's.

I think this should be a compromise because it allows both sides of the community to chose one or the other (or both!). And the best part about this idea(that I just came up seconds ago) is that you can compare the two and see what's different about the ban/unban groups.

There's too much controversy in this community and we need to come up with solutions FOR EVERYONE. Not just for the URC, not just for the BBR, not just for the unban MK group.

okay that's a good idea but now , WHO are the TO's that are actually against MK ban ?

edit : and WHO among those are the one feeling like forming a comittee ?

 

[Steam]

If the community actually got split over the mk ban and it caused the tourneys in my area to be mk legal again, I'd just quit for melee. I don't think you could pay me to play yet another metaknight....

 

[JTsm]

Well I could be one of them, but unfortunately I have too much going on in my life right now. I wish I could help out, but it'll be the people who want MK to stay. Steam, you silly. If you don't want to go, then don't go. I'm sure there is going to be at least one T.O. that would want a MK ban tourney in your state.

Edit: plus, I just thought about it not too long ago, so obviously there needs to be a lot of time to prepare a whole different committee.

 

[Thino]

Well I could be one of them, but unfortunately I have too much going on in my life right now. I wish I could help out, but it'll be the people who want MK to stay. Steam, you silly. If you don't want to go, then don't go. I'm sure there is going to be at least one T.O. that would want a MK ban tourney in your state.

Edit: plus, I just thought about it not too long ago, so obviously there needs to be a lot of time to prepare a whole different committee.

Well you've got yourself your first supporter then.

But I think if we really want this to happen we better seek help from actual TO's

 

[JTsm]

Well you've got yourself your first supporter then.

But I think if we really want this to happen we better seek help from actual TO's

Right, we need T.O.'s that are still willing to host pro mk tournies. Not only that, but a good amount of supporters for this idea. The idea behind the 2 rule set committee is for everyone who wants MK ban tournies to have mk ban tournies and people who still want mk to be in tournies should have mk in their tournies. The question is, who are the T.O.'s willing to support this idea?

Edit: and thanks for the support T.O. or not ^^

 

[Death Arcana]

you could have two t.o.'s in a region
one for pro ban
one for anti ban

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Good luck finding an anti ban TO after apex

 

[JTsm]

Well, if I want this idea to be discussed more I could make a new thread entirely. The earlier the better for those who want to keep Anti ban tournies available. Yeah, I should probably get to it then.

 

[Archangel]

If you wish to advance Brawl then make camping of any kind illegal.


As for all the anger I don't understand why everyone is so mad. decade old game is more balanced as a result of a decade of trial and error.

With that said Brawl is seemingly 1 big error...however I feel the ban of MK is the first step in the right direction. After 3 years of no MK maybe you can invite him back to see how he does. Assuming Brawl's tournament seen has the same stamina as Melee's Viagra injected community.

 

[Tesh]

lol @ 2nd committee.

If you really need to start making extra committees with all the same problems you claim URC has, then you might wanna just think for yourself and make your own ruleset eh?

@arrows, I always felt there were ways to make alot of camping essentially non viable, which could improve the pace of the game and which strategies became dominant.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Good luck finding an anti ban TO after apex

I wish I could reverse that, but even if there's only one MK in top 8, there will still be people who think MK is broken.

 

[JTsm]

@tesh: Maybe I should. And I'm not saying I have a problem with the URC. I just think the community needs to realize that there are options that T.O.'s can use to make everybody in the community have fun. I personally hate MK, but I don't think he should be banned because one group says so.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We should stop with the Brawl vs Melee stuff.

 

[Tesh]

@tesh: Maybe I should. And I'm not saying I have a problem with the URC. I just think the community needs to realize that there are options that T.O.'s can use to make everybody in the community have fun. I personally hate MK, but I don't think he should be banned because one group says so.

For 3 years he wasn't banned because one group said so. URC did a much better job with data and multiple community votes and all of it favored banning MK.

I still get that TOs should have options, but forming another committee is still just another "because we said so" group. Its just another standard of whats "normal". That doesn't tell TOs they have options, it tells them they have an option.

Personally I would tried to change the core strategies of the game before banning MK. Its pretty likely that. Alot of ideas have come and gone without much or any testing. I do think people will continue to complain tho.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I wish I could reverse that, but even if there's only one MK in top 8, there will still be people who think MK is broken.

Oh I just meant after apex because there are already TOs that are banning him before the legit ban date. Then there are the TOs that are waiting til after apex

 

[JTsm]

For 3 years he wasn't banned because one group said so. URC did a much better job with data and multiple community votes and all of it favored banning MK.

So what about the other group that still wants MK? Just leave them out (or force them to play a different character just because he's too broken?)?

I still get that TOs should have options, but forming another committee is still just another "because we said so" group. Its just another standard of whats "normal". That doesn't tell TOs they have options, it tells them they have an option.

So lets make thousands of committees with different rule sets so errone can be happy, k? I'm not saying TO's have to resort to this other committee. I'm just wondering who will support it. If not, kthxbai.

Personally I would tried to change the core strategies of the game before banning MK. Its pretty likely that. Alot of ideas have come and gone without much or any testing. I do think people will continue to complain tho.

Then they can make they're own ruleset or committee and run their own tourney. TO's should ultimately do what they want anyways. I just want to keep the Pro Mk tournies alive for the people that want to keep him.

 

[Flayl]

How many people think that if there were more tournaments like KTAR 6 that Meta Knight wouldn't be as strong? How many tournaments would we need to observe to reach a conclusion if the game is or isn't more balanced that way?

Dat's a pretty good question ya got dere boss!

 

[Eon the Wolf]

What do you mean that never happened? I just posted the video of it happening...also in the wake of M2k's retirement ICE is functionally the best Marth. [/url]

Wait...When the....WHEN DID M2K RETIRE?! (I assume you mean just melee...)

That never happened.

Also, it was fake, the Marth was sandbagging, the Kirby player was obviously much better, it was PAL, and Fountain of Dreams should be banned.

Fountain of Dreams, last I checked, is legal in 1v1; it's only 'banned' in 2v2 cause I hear there are bugs/problems that occur from lag or w/e (Never witnessed it myself but w/e)

If the marth was sandbagging, that is his fault. If the marth sandbagged, it was because a) he underestimated the kirby player or b)he was overconfident. Both can/did lead to his defeat, and it's entirely his fault he chose not take on the kirby player with the utmost focus. One could argue part of the reason for using low tiers is to make the high tier user overconfident and/or surprise them with the low tier if they have little MU knowledge/experience against that particular character....Mind games are a part of the game too.

Just because someone was/is 'obviously better' means jack. Look at all of the sudden 'new aces' or 'rookie aces' in racing, or fighters, or starcraft, or fighting, or this or that. That means NOTHING. If someone ALWAYS won 'because they were better', we would never have underdogs or new champions. That is why fighting games are so successful; if you have the determination/talent/skill/hard work, you HAVE a chance at being a top dog. Period.

I can't say anything bout PAL. I don't (think) I own a PAL copy, and I don't know anyone who does...is it even legal/used for US tournies...? (I've been trying to find it so I could try it out but :/...Also, don't you have to have a region specific GC/Wii to play PAL as well...?)