Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Hey tim, learn how to use commas.
-
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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
LMAO You are in no position to question the great Leffen.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Kao, aren't you that Mewtwo that's not good?
Palpi
Smash Hero
He beat 3 torlololololololol
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
What does that make 3? Lol.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
meh, arent u that guy named after a character you dont play? We all have our faults I guess lol.
Dont test me, I will stomp that baby out.
But, I dont deal with pressure as well as I need to(or sleep enough lol, passed out while waiting for R2 pools matches), my ability as a m2 player dont necessarily reflect my placements in tourney. Its no biggie tho, ill get use to it and quit sucking. Getting better is the only option.
Also 3 is a pretty decent Samus player, dont hate on him. He did fairly well at pound. Most of his MMs that he was able to do were with really good players(a few went back for 2nds, and 3rds...and licked the plate clean), no shame in losing, just learn from it.
leffen
Smash Champion
Kirbykaze: Tested some by myself, the waveshine to usmash was just a estimate tho.
Kaostar: How well you place in tournament is the only estimate of your abilities as a smash player. And man I love scrubs saying that they are good but that they just need to handle tournament pressure ... like its a "barrier" that you can break...
Random: how long does jump -> instant jump cancel really lag? Feels like you dont suffer from the 4 landing lag frames to me.
edit: Rubyiris: Lol hell yeah... its funny that YEAH told me to learn english, my eyes bleed and my head starts to hurt from reading Vmans posts... and Im not even american >_>. Please try to format your posts / l2grammar Vman, no offense
Kaostar: How well you place in tournament is the only estimate of your abilities as a smash player. And man I love scrubs saying that they are good but that they just need to handle tournament pressure ... like its a "barrier" that you can break...
Random: how long does jump -> instant jump cancel really lag? Feels like you dont suffer from the 4 landing lag frames to me.
edit: Rubyiris: Lol hell yeah... its funny that YEAH told me to learn english, my eyes bleed and my head starts to hurt from reading Vmans posts... and Im not even american >_>. Please try to format your posts / l2grammar Vman, no offense
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I just realized Leffen is ****ing ******** lol. Its coo tho, one day he too, will break down his barrier.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Hey... stop hating....on my unique way to use my punctuation.... I really like this .... *sigh*.... you guys are meanies... I like.... typing like this... it gives me a sense of individuality... lol.......okay.. fine... I can stop... since you guys want me to.. 
Allrite. Kaostar, your Mewtwo was pretty legit.
@Leffen - I have the same question as KirbyKaze, some of that Fox info I was unsure of myself, is that really true about some of the frame windows on fox or is it a hypothesis? Also, I use Grab > dthrow > nair > Grab > Dthrow, Uair, Nair, etc. I use Nair > Uair at low % because many players usually SDI's the Uair, so my combo is usually stopped before I get to start it. At a "personal" level I've just had more success using Nair, rather than Uair at that percentage. I'll try it again perhaps, but my success has been rather low
Sorry about not posting my insights at earlier times. I told you, I was waiting for things to dwindle down.
On the matchup debate with Fox:
While playing my sets with Cyrain, Kels and Weon-X. I had noticed one major thing, that actually surprised me, and Leffen said it, and that's Fox's rather weak abilty to edgeguard vs Yoshi. Now granted, perhaps they didn't know how to Edgeguard Yoshi, but Fox really doesn't have an answer to edgeguarding Yoshi. At low% if Fox decides to challenge Yoshi's recovery. Yoshi DJCcounters with Nair, Even at higher % most Foxes will either anticipate the read for an Usmash, or spam Nair's Yoshi can take the damage (willingly) or if Usmashed lose his ability to jump due to superarmor no longer intact, but alive at least. which usually puts yourself in better position. (not always the case.) If I was creative enough, I never really had any trouble getting back onto the stage, or in a safe position to set up my reapproach.
Whenever I was stuck in shield. I'd always just hold shield (light shielding) if a fox attacked, I would slide away from danger, if I was grabbed I merely trusted my abilities to escape Fox's Uthrow Followups. If Fox Uthrow > Uair w/no DI, Yoshi can SDI fall w/a Nair/Fair/Egglay (Fox's who are holding shield anticipating a counterattack) Also even no DI. Yoshi can DJCcounter aerials done to him. Uair, Bair, Shine, Yoshi can DJCcounter all of these, without much risk. If Yoshi DI's, left/right, same thing DJCcounter setups or at least no threatening move Fox can do to put the Yoshi in immediate danger.
I also had rather much success trusting Yoshi's "parry" game. If I was stuck in shield animation, and my opponent anticipated a roll, and I was certain they'd try to shield pressure me w/Nair or even Grab. Parry after a roll is gold. If they Neutral You got a "parry" setup, if they grab, you're invincible during the grab attempt (parry frames) in which you can DJCNair anyway, as if you initially had a parry anyway. If they don't do anything than you can keep rolling away/towards, or at least retreat and try to get another setup. Atm, "parrying" throws off opponents badly. (unexpected factor) and leads to many followups. My set with Weon-X, and Cyrain relied heavily on this and I got a very early lead in our matches thanks to this (well for Weon-X at least) (and the crowd sorta hyping me) <3 you Joey.
also I had the benefit of anticipation as well. I know what Fox's can do to combo Yoshi (for the most part) however the ladder is not so. Most fox players won't know what to expect on how to DI Yoshi's combo game, while we have a good general idea. Of course as more players get Yoshi experience this concept will change, but when that time comes. I'll have another answer for that as well. Another thing and this is "iffy" but Edgecancelled Eggs worked rather well for me. Idk why but my eggs from the edge were damn near frame perfect all tourney long, and that helped me out alot ESPECIALLY in building damage. Many players even thought Yoshi was "invincible" during that. (Man I freakin wish. xD) but any information they don't know is always better right. . Now i'm not saying use this method etc, because it indeed is punishable. These results will vary by player which will vary by consistency of edgecancelled Eggs, so I guess i'm saying "use with caution"/"use with confidence.
I'm thinking of what I wanna put vs Marth now. Tell me what you guys think on Fox, and also what you may agree/disagree with on my thought vs Fox.
I like.... typing like this... it gives me a sense of individuality... lol.......okay.. fine... I can stop... since you guys want me to.. Allrite. Kaostar, your Mewtwo was pretty legit.
@Leffen - I have the same question as KirbyKaze, some of that Fox info I was unsure of myself, is that really true about some of the frame windows on fox or is it a hypothesis? Also, I use Grab > dthrow > nair > Grab > Dthrow, Uair, Nair, etc. I use Nair > Uair at low % because many players usually SDI's the Uair, so my combo is usually stopped before I get to start it. At a "personal" level I've just had more success using Nair, rather than Uair at that percentage. I'll try it again perhaps, but my success has been rather low
Sorry about not posting my insights at earlier times. I told you, I was waiting for things to dwindle down.
On the matchup debate with Fox:
While playing my sets with Cyrain, Kels and Weon-X. I had noticed one major thing, that actually surprised me, and Leffen said it, and that's Fox's rather weak abilty to edgeguard vs Yoshi. Now granted, perhaps they didn't know how to Edgeguard Yoshi, but Fox really doesn't have an answer to edgeguarding Yoshi. At low% if Fox decides to challenge Yoshi's recovery. Yoshi DJCcounters with Nair, Even at higher % most Foxes will either anticipate the read for an Usmash, or spam Nair's Yoshi can take the damage (willingly) or if Usmashed lose his ability to jump due to superarmor no longer intact, but alive at least. which usually puts yourself in better position. (not always the case.) If I was creative enough, I never really had any trouble getting back onto the stage, or in a safe position to set up my reapproach.
Whenever I was stuck in shield. I'd always just hold shield (light shielding) if a fox attacked, I would slide away from danger, if I was grabbed I merely trusted my abilities to escape Fox's Uthrow Followups. If Fox Uthrow > Uair w/no DI, Yoshi can SDI fall w/a Nair/Fair/Egglay (Fox's who are holding shield anticipating a counterattack) Also even no DI. Yoshi can DJCcounter aerials done to him. Uair, Bair, Shine, Yoshi can DJCcounter all of these, without much risk. If Yoshi DI's, left/right, same thing DJCcounter setups or at least no threatening move Fox can do to put the Yoshi in immediate danger.
I also had rather much success trusting Yoshi's "parry" game. If I was stuck in shield animation, and my opponent anticipated a roll, and I was certain they'd try to shield pressure me w/Nair or even Grab. Parry after a roll is gold. If they Neutral You got a "parry" setup, if they grab, you're invincible during the grab attempt (parry frames) in which you can DJCNair anyway, as if you initially had a parry anyway. If they don't do anything than you can keep rolling away/towards, or at least retreat and try to get another setup. Atm, "parrying" throws off opponents badly. (unexpected factor) and leads to many followups. My set with Weon-X, and Cyrain relied heavily on this and I got a very early lead in our matches thanks to this (well for Weon-X at least) (and the crowd sorta hyping me) <3 you Joey.
also I had the benefit of anticipation as well. I know what Fox's can do to combo Yoshi (for the most part) however the ladder is not so. Most fox players won't know what to expect on how to DI Yoshi's combo game, while we have a good general idea. Of course as more players get Yoshi experience this concept will change, but when that time comes. I'll have another answer for that as well.
Another thing and this is "iffy" but Edgecancelled Eggs worked rather well for me. Idk why but my eggs from the edge were damn near frame perfect all tourney long, and that helped me out alot ESPECIALLY in building damage. Many players even thought Yoshi was "invincible" during that. (Man I freakin wish. xD) but any information they don't know is always better right. . Now i'm not saying use this method etc, because it indeed is punishable. These results will vary by player which will vary by consistency of edgecancelled Eggs, so I guess i'm saying "use with caution"/"use with confidence. I'm thinking of what I wanna put vs Marth now. Tell me what you guys think on Fox, and also what you may agree/disagree with on my thought vs Fox.
Eggz
Smash Hero
alcohol/broken knuckles johns for not making it out of pools btw
ItalianStallion
Smash Journeyman
As a Mewtwo main, I approve of Kaostar's Mewtwo.
As for a Yoshi related question:
Why do Yoshi's platform wave-lands look so stylish?
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Nogzor's and Darkgirku...
I'll be going... i won't be entering.. but i'll be going.. if you can find a way... Im sure nicknyte wouldnt mind picking you up again..
, but ask him first.
Pogogo
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 321
How do you get peeps to take yoshi srsly? Whenever I play him people stop playing good/ use bad low tiers . I need the practice. I'm not good enough to win so convincingly in order to make them step it up or if I am it because they didn't play there best.
. I need the practice. I'm not good enough to win so convincingly in order to make them step it up or if I am it because they didn't play there best.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Dude that sucks. Its a common low tier problem. I really dont know why tho, when you are playing with people a decent amount better than you it shouldnt matter which character you use...they are probably gonna beat you anyway.
So the best way to fix this...Just communicate and be open about it. Sometimes people think you are ****ing around when u play a ****ty character, just let them kno that you are truly trying to improve your Yoshi, and that you respect their skill and time as a player and you would really benefit from some more serious matches to help you improve. Let them know that you are taking yoshi seriously, and not just"for lolz"
Every now and again you might have to comprise a little tho to 1, be fair and 2, keep them motivated. Every so often challenge them to like a 1 dollar MM. And after awhile play some games with your high tier character. The better you get, the easier it becomes. when u start winning games all you gotta do is talk a lil **** and they will try hella hard to beat you cuz they apparently feel like **** cuz they just got ***** by a low tier lol.
So the best way to fix this...Just communicate and be open about it. Sometimes people think you are ****ing around when u play a ****ty character, just let them kno that you are truly trying to improve your Yoshi, and that you respect their skill and time as a player and you would really benefit from some more serious matches to help you improve. Let them know that you are taking yoshi seriously, and not just"for lolz"
Every now and again you might have to comprise a little tho to 1, be fair and 2, keep them motivated. Every so often challenge them to like a 1 dollar MM. And after awhile play some games with your high tier character. The better you get, the easier it becomes. when u start winning games all you gotta do is talk a lil **** and they will try hella hard to beat you cuz they apparently feel like **** cuz they just got ***** by a low tier lol.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Just throw eggs at them until they get annoyed and actually have to try.
Nicknyte
Smash Lord
Double post sry.
Nicknyte
Smash Lord
I can pick yall up again. Just let me know a time.
M-m-m-my name is H-Hinata...And um....I like being a dot*****....um...be gentle.
Hey... stop hating....on my unique way to use my punctuation.... I really like this .... *sigh*.... you guys are meanies...
M-m-m-my name is H-Hinata...And um....I like being a dot*****....um...be gentle.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
LOL Nicknyte.
YEAH!
Smash Journeyman
wtf? usmash is 8 frames XD oh and tim its not THAT hard to edgeguard yoshi with fox, then again i know the MU so meh.
darkgirku
Smash Journeyman
hmmm still got a week to think about that tourney then aye...
Fox's downthrow btw against yoshi is aight i think. unless im wrong. But Yoshi can't use his DJCC then *nods* plus it leads to a techchase Usmash or re-grab, etc.
Fox's downthrow btw against yoshi is aight i think. unless im wrong. But Yoshi can't use his DJCC then *nods* plus it leads to a techchase Usmash or re-grab, etc.
Beat!
Smash Master
He said 1-2 frame window when you're DI:ing properly. Not that it comes out in 2 frames.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
My windows usually have 4 frames. 
Beat!
Smash Master
Nicknyte
Smash Lord
More like 4 days.
YOSHIDO
Smash Ace
Lol hey nicknyte, Wheres that money $$ lol.
Nicknyte
Smash Lord
Yoshido, we fought, I don't think you'd like to lose money lololol
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Nicknyte comboed into misfire against me. It was shocking.
YOSHIDO
Smash Ace
NO good sir. Im talking about our pichu burger deal that u lost, and forgot to give me my $$$$. Thats all the four quarters sir. Besides i believe our lugi v yoshi match was recoreded. Lol i will admit your lugi has alot of miss fires.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
LOL, Nicknyte also beat my Yoshi haha. but he lost to the two.
Nicknyte
Smash Lord
Gimme your paypal account, Ill send u a dollar. lol Know a link to that video?
Nicknyte
Smash Lord
I'm going to save you the answer from Vman.
No, he doesn't 64. I doubt 64 yoshi even registers in his mind :D We have not played 64 once since he moved here last May/June
No, he doesn't 64. I doubt 64 yoshi even registers in his mind :D We have not played 64 once since he moved here last May/June
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Smash 64 is pretty fun, but it's kind of broken too. Just spamming moves is pretty effective (due to the floatier physics) which makes for not quite as exciting of a game.
It's still fun as heck though.
It's still fun as heck though.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Where does that teams match happen? Do you live in bizzaro world? <3
Laijin
Smash Hero
Too many Yoshis on the screen bro.
Nogzor'z
Smash Journeyman
Yoshi's Bair is pretty useful in some ways.
It has a decent range and somewhat low start-up time and little landing lag (auto-cancels nicely too). I suppose it can play a role as a GTFO of my face, as jabs might.
Bair is rather useful for poking shields, racking up quick damage, or setting up vertical kills (depending on DI)
Is there anything else? Help me out, people.
With recovering, the way is dependent of quite a few things.
-Is the opponent ready to edge guard?
-Are there platforms?
-Does your opponent have any strong attack/projectile that are emphasied in a certain direction?
(think needles, Falco's Dair, and other of those types of moves)
Rcovering low and getting the edge allows for ECE, of course.
Being unpredictable with recovering (which includes mixing u with airdodge) is pretty important to Yoshi.
It has a decent range and somewhat low start-up time and little landing lag (auto-cancels nicely too). I suppose it can play a role as a GTFO of my face, as jabs might.
Bair is rather useful for poking shields, racking up quick damage, or setting up vertical kills (depending on DI)
Is there anything else? Help me out, people.
With recovering, the way is dependent of quite a few things.
-Is the opponent ready to edge guard?
-Are there platforms?
-Does your opponent have any strong attack/projectile that are emphasied in a certain direction?
(think needles, Falco's Dair, and other of those types of moves)
Rcovering low and getting the edge allows for ECE, of course.
Being unpredictable with recovering (which includes mixing u with airdodge) is pretty important to Yoshi.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
haha, actually I'd love to play 64 Yoshi, I played him back in the day (I'm like a supernoob) lol "roll, smash, repeat... XD but it seems fun... I played Ness, Fox in n64, and now that i've got a much better grasp on Yoshi, I could give it a shot..
I'm sure if I do decide to play 64 Yoshi, I'm sure i'd be contacting Sheermadness, so he could help me out, ;P but it does seem fun to learn...
also:
about to start other Matchups? is everyone ready to discuss perhaps a different matchup? seems nobody has insight on Yoshi/Fox besides what has been posted, so I suppose I'll move on to the other characters.