Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[dvatch]

questions you had and my okay answers
3) Its really difficult to aerial interrupt invincibly from ledge consistently. I would focus on other things for now. Just learn when the aerial interrupts happen so you dont do them by accident. aerial interrupt on platforms are useful and not too hard.
5) try to see the side of you that falco is on and di shine away from him. sometimes you can act out of dair with a nair/upair/dj, just watch out for up tilt. Against good falcos youre pretty much ****ed
6) wavedash to his location and techchase. up throw at higher percents works too.
7) whichever one is more likely to lead to kill idk
8) If you dont have your double jump, youre basically screwed. be tricky with airdodges. Try to di to platforms when you know he cant get a follow up. Try to downb where he cant punish(for some marths, go to ledge, others right at him, some by ledge to trick them, some youre screwed no matter how you down b) di his aerials (away and down) or (away and up) depending on the situation.
10) vs falcon, its imperative you learn how to parry his aerials consistently.

other stuff
5) i agree eggs are good. just be careful against technical aggressive peaches.
9) PS is a pretty good stage. still **** versus fox.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That Peach matchup is pretty rough. Props to you for sticking with Yoshi even against Peach.

 

[SkippyJ]

Hey guys, new to yoshi (and melee in general) and I'm wondering, how does yoshi kill? I notice my opponents on average living to 150 or even higher. I also play Falco (pretty dedicated to dual maining them) and I never have this problem with him, and while yoshi is more relaxing for me, feeling more natural, it's frustrating to constantly be out-damaging my opponents but still dropping my stock before them.

Ik up smash and forward smash kill, and up air, but fishing for these things becomes pretty predictable and easy to avoid. Are there any reliable ways to set up for these kills? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yoshi has trouble killing floaties. Usually Yoshi's kills come from hitting the opponent too far offstage for them to recover (aka nair to force Sheik to up-b back to stage, then reverse nair her again).

Nair in general is one of your better KO moves, but it can be hard to land since it's usually fairly telegraphed. D-smash can be done out of a wavedash and has pretty potent KO power. Uair is definitely one of your better floaty killers, but you will have to read aerial drift well to land it. Dash attack by the ledge can KO fast fallers easily.

 

[Klemes]

How do people DJC nair/uair ?

>>>+ / >>>+
or
>>>+ / >>>+

 

[Klemes]

!UP!

Where should I ask if not here ? Guess ima create a thread then...

 

[tauKhan]

!UP!

Where should I ask if not here ? Guess ima create a thread then...

You might want to join yoshi discord

 

[Pk_dnkx]

Yo whatup. I've been playing my noob yoshi for about three years since I was a newcomer to melee. Went to Japan a couple times and got to play with Amsa and Plata and helped me realize the potential with a lot of this stuff. Now I'm in SoCal and I'm working on my neutral game. It all seems like it comes down to matchup knowledge.

Anyways anybody know anything about Shiled>upsmash to auto short hop? I don't know where to look for frame data, but I believe from the few matches I've played this week it's an auto parry - or a perfect parry? Could be wrong. It looks like yoshi starts to go into shield and then hops out almost immediately. You have to do it really fast almost at the same time. Sorry if this has been discussed already. There's 79 pages spanning years. haha.

-pkdownkicks

 

[Stax_Machine]

P Pk_dnkx its easy to get parry into up-smash because you can jump cancel into it, just like how you would jump cancel grabs/up-smashes. The input is the same as any jump cancel move but all you have to do it press shield before executing it. Jump canceling the parry is extremely easy here because most people already have the muscle memory for the mental inputs of jump canceling moves; all you gotta do is add a shield input before executing it. Although if your going to punish an ariel with parry up-smash you're working harder then you need to, as your face is intangible and has a giant hit box around it so instead of being tech heavy if you're going to punish an obvious ariel just time a raw upsmash. You can even change the spacing to be a bit easier if you jump cancel away from the opponent as you do this because your head/hitbox starts behind you so if you're sliding away it makes it harder for them to trade and usually easier for you to just win the exchange and if they pull their ariel you'll be a little farther away making a wiff punish a little harder. If you're going to put the effort into parrying you should try to get a nair/up-air/d-smash out of it because these lead to edge guards and combos. You'll also find parry to shield grab to be easy to pull off as you'll get all 6 parry frames because you don't have to jump cancel it and you can focus on the timing alone. If you want to learn to parry better try to get parry > shield grabs because you can get all the parry frames and if you know you're going to be early because you're nervous you can chicken out to just shielding and go for a light shield/grab/roll away. If you want to know more about parry frame data look on youtube "Yoshi - Techniques - Parry Hopping"

 

[Pk_dnkx]

P Pk_dnkx its easy to get parry into up-smash because you can jump cancel into it, just like how you would jump cancel grabs/up-smashes. The input is the same as any jump cancel move but all you have to do it press shield before executing it. Jump canceling the parry is extremely easy here because most people already have the muscle memory for the mental inputs of jump canceling moves; all you gotta do is add a shield input before executing it. Although if your going to punish an ariel with parry up-smash you're working harder then you need to, as your face is intangible and has a giant hit box around it so instead of being tech heavy if you're going to punish an obvious ariel just time a raw upsmash. You can even change the spacing to be a bit easier if you jump cancel away from the opponent as you do this because your head/hitbox starts behind you so if you're sliding away it makes it harder for them to trade and usually easier for you to just win the exchange and if they pull their ariel you'll be a little farther away making a wiff punish a little harder. If you're going to put the effort into parrying you should try to get a nair/up-air/d-smash out of it because these lead to edge guards and combos. You'll also find parry to shield grab to be easy to pull off as you'll get all 6 parry frames because you don't have to jump cancel it and you can focus on the timing alone. If you want to learn to parry better try to get parry > shield grabs because you can get all the parry frames and if you know you're going to be early because you're nervous you can chicken out to just shielding and go for a light shield/grab/roll away. If you want to know more about parry frame data look on youtube "Yoshi - Techniques - Parry Hopping"

That video is awesome, but I was talking about an auto short hop caused by pressing shield and c stick up almost simultaneously. I was wondering if it was an auto 2 frame parry? It's like the game doesn't like the two inputs so close to each other and starts the shield, doesn't know what to do with the upsmash and assigns that input to a short hop. There was a similar input glitch like this with Lucas in brawl with b-sticking the opposite direction you were holding.

Had anyone done this and does it work? I'm leaning toward it does but I can't test it for a couple days.

If it in fact is an auto parry jump it could be used with easier fast djc out of shield with the claw for that input. All speculation right now on my end unless this is a common thing I didn't know about.

 

[Pk_dnkx]

Oh and thanks for the quick reply!

 

[Stax_Machine]

P Pk_dnkx I did some labing myself and looked into shielding and pressing up on the c-stick, so when you described shielding and pressing the c-stick up trying to get an upsmash and it looks like a jump canceled parry to me, so I thought well what happens when you up-c during shield if you were a normal character who isn't yoshi, and I found if you shield with someone who can normally jump out of shield and up-c they jump out of shield and side c's buffer rolls, and down-c = spot doge, so when you enter the shield input and then an up-c you're just executing a normal jump canceled parry. Since yoshi can't jump out of shield the frame data for jump canceling a parry with x, y, analog-up, or c-up is the same, you still have the same frame window to jump cancel it, but if this timing makes it easier for you to learn when to jump out of parry (like you said it's almost at the same time) use it for a bit but I would advise learning to jump cancel with x/y, its really uncomfortable to "shield > c-up (jumps out of parry) > x/y (double jump) > c-up(upair cancels double jump)". It would be a little easier to do with claw like you mentioned but this is a really easy/consistent input without claw for djc up-air chains "shield > double tap x/y > c-up > l-cancel stuff". If you want to learn to parry with up-c though feel free to try it, I think you'll need claw for it to be effective though, just don't get lazy and double jump cancel with tap jump... it builds bad habits and you can't cover away DI as well.

Side note about claw: if you're proficient at claw I envy you because that means frame perfect (it's 1 or 2 frame window, its hard to tell without tas tools) "short hop > bair > djc upair" will be more consistent as if you're not clawing bair to the right is hard because you have to pass over the c-stick to get the right input, but if you bair with the "a" button it'll be a bit easier but harder to control your DI but claw will give you the best of both, good spacing and more consistent tech.

 

[Pk_dnkx]

P Pk_dnkx I did some labing myself and looked into shielding and pressing up on the c-stick, so when you described shielding and pressing the c-stick up trying to get an upsmash and it looks like a jump canceled parry to me, so I thought well what happens when you up-c during shield if you were a normal character who isn't yoshi, and I found if you shield with someone who can normally jump out of shield and up-c they jump out of shield and side c's buffer rolls, and down-c = spot doge, so when you enter the shield input and then an up-c you're just executing a normal jump canceled parry. Since yoshi can't jump out of shield the frame data for jump canceling a parry with x, y, analog-up, or c-up is the same, you still have the same frame window to jump cancel it, but if this timing makes it easier for you to learn when to jump out of parry (like you said it's almost at the same time) use it for a bit but I would advise learning to jump cancel with x/y, its really uncomfortable to "shield > c-up (jumps out of parry) > x/y (double jump) > c-up(upair cancels double jump)". It would be a little easier to do with claw like you mentioned but this is a really easy/consistent input without claw for djc up-air chains "shield > double tap x/y > c-up > l-cancel stuff". If you want to learn to parry with up-c though feel free to try it, I think you'll need claw for it to be effective though, just don't get lazy and double jump cancel with tap jump... it builds bad habits and you can't cover away DI as well.

Side note about claw: if you're proficient at claw I envy you because that means frame perfect (it's 1 or 2 frame window, its hard to tell without tas tools) "short hop > bair > djc upair" will be more consistent as if you're not clawing bair to the right is hard because you have to pass over the c-stick to get the right input, but if you bair with the "a" button it'll be a bit easier but harder to control your DI but claw will give you the best of both, good spacing and more consistent tech.

Thanks for the input! Cool I'll use it then for fast stuff. I mix the claw in for different situations since I saw Plata play that way. It's way too uncomfortable to do that all the time for me with yoshi, but I've got a pocket peach so it's normal to me haha. Recently learned the trigger tricking intricacies and how I've probably been messing up my parries tricking the button incorrectly, so I'll work on the normal ones too.