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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
BigglesWorth
Smash Apprentice
It's been quite some time since I have been on here. Any synopsis on new developments?
Also curious, how many people use instant double cancel out of dash dance to bait out nair approaches and shines while punishing with dmsash or fsmash?
Just curious as to the full pros and cons. Idjc at any point of the dashdance seems to give yoshi a lot more ground game.
Also curious, how many people use instant double cancel out of dash dance to bait out nair approaches and shines while punishing with dmsash or fsmash?
Just curious as to the full pros and cons. Idjc at any point of the dashdance seems to give yoshi a lot more ground game.
I wish i was going to Genesis but its on the west coast and I'm broke. Hopefully its Annual. Unrelated, this morning when practicing I did run -> parry -> sheild drop -> upair -> platform cancel -> edge cancel and it felt super neat. I don't know when I could possibly use it though lol.
ABAP Kidney
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 17, 2015
- Messages
- 17
AMSA IS GOING!?
Dude I am so glad I registered I am so excited now
Dude I am so glad I registered I am so excited now
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
The only development I have is that running parry is really good. Against players who defend their space with hitboxes you can directly challenge them with it and get a free opening. If they mix up their timings you can use the occasional run cancel Dtilt, Bair, or just dash dance, and this lets you make them afraid to delay any attack. If they can't delay their attacks the parry is free, or they have to retreat.
Also glad to hear that aMSa is going to Genesis!
flieskiller
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 426
ABAP Kidney
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 17, 2015
- Messages
- 17
Yeah that's what I thought, but then he tweeted that on the 22nd and this post was later so I'm really really hoping (probably not though is the feeling I'm getting)
He should just move to the US. That would be amazing. Could you guys imagine what the Yoshi meta will become if he got to play here regularly?
Hey guys, I was playing around with shield pressure and was curious if Nair or uair can be stringed fasted enough on a shield to stop them from grabbing you? I'm sure this has been answered before but when I searched the forum I get a ton of results. Even just a link to the post will suffice. 
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
To avoid shieldgrabbing, you have to either cross up the opponent (they can't grab behind them) or frame trap with Ftilt, Jab, Dsmash or Parry.Hey guys, I was playing around with shield pressure and was curious if Nair or uair can be stringed fasted enough on a shield to stop them from grabbing you? I'm sure this has been answered before but when I searched the forum I get a ton of results. Even just a link to the post will suffice.
Saltsizzle
Smash Journeyman
I've been watching a bit of amsa recently and I noticed that he is very good at wavelanding on platforms and fastfalling instantly after sliding off of the platform. He also can hold shield on a platform wait to get hit and then instantly shielddrop and punish. What are the inputs for these two techniques?
To get the perfect waveland on platforms you need to air dodge horizontally, this will take a bit of practice to get down. Once you feel yourself being able to do that consistently, add a fast fall right after you slide off the platform. To shield drop hold your shield button and lightly press down on the control stick to do it. If you side step you're doing it too fast.
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ilikcereal101
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2015
- Messages
- 72
I wish I could go to Genesis 3 (I don't know if I'd actually enter or not, but going there would be a very cool experience) But I'm 15 and in NC XD
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I recently watched this aMSa set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ardMYLE9JmE
A few notes:
-1:26: aMSa CCed Rudolph's getup attack and punished (I believe this was discussed at some point in one of these threads)
-At some point in the set (can't find it right now), Back throw -> quick DJ Egg Toss to grab the edge as a mixup
-Game 2: countering Rudolph's laser camping with powershielding; I haven't seen many players do that before
Unfortunately aMSa's SDs potentially lost him the set since he SDed twice during Game 2, once being at 0%, and he was doing well.
A few notes:
-1:26: aMSa CCed Rudolph's getup attack and punished (I believe this was discussed at some point in one of these threads)
-At some point in the set (can't find it right now), Back throw -> quick DJ Egg Toss to grab the edge as a mixup
-Game 2: countering Rudolph's laser camping with powershielding; I haven't seen many players do that before
Unfortunately aMSa's SDs potentially lost him the set since he SDed twice during Game 2, once being at 0%, and he was doing well.
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
1) Yeah, what we came up with was basically what aMSa did. Good to know it works.
2) I am not sure whether this was a good idea but I will look into it. It's possible Rudolph could have jumped over the egg.
3) It can be tough against low lasers but I don't think it's a bad idea to do this at least sometimes.
aMSa uses running parry a few times in this set. I've never been able to find an example of another yoshi player doing it, but it's really an amazing tool. Please try it, everyone!
Edit: also congrats aMSa on winning whatever tournament just happened. I forget the name.
2) I am not sure whether this was a good idea but I will look into it. It's possible Rudolph could have jumped over the egg.
3) It can be tough against low lasers but I don't think it's a bad idea to do this at least sometimes.
aMSa uses running parry a few times in this set. I've never been able to find an example of another yoshi player doing it, but it's really an amazing tool. Please try it, everyone!
Edit: also congrats aMSa on winning whatever tournament just happened. I forget the name.
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Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
I don't have all of it, but getup attacks last 49 frames and the second hit usually comes out around 25 frames in, so if you ASDI down you'll have 4 frames landing and about 20 frames to punish. Given those numbers, Dash Grab and Dash Attack would be pretty free. DJC Nair or Uair would probably work too, though they'd be tougher.
Edit: also, reduced hitlag from crouching also skews those numbers a bit more in Yoshi's favour.
Edit: also, reduced hitlag from crouching also skews those numbers a bit more in Yoshi's favour.
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So after playing KJH and watching armada/leffen. I really like how foxes uses CC dtilt so i wanted to see if yoshi's ftilt could produce similar results. Anyone know characters where ftitlt->downb combos? It looks really close on puff around 50 but ultimately i couldn't get it to link in training mode.
Dinowulf
Smash Journeyman
dtilt > downB? I never would have considered that to even be a thing......i wanna hear the answers to. I'm super curious
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
I've tried to get Ftilt to combo into Yoshi Bomb against Puff but it doesn't work.
On Fox, you can get it to work around 100% if you angle Ftilt up, get the 80 degree hitbox and Fox doesn't DI. That's pretty situational but at least there are some conditions where it works. I think CC Ftilt is probably better used to get combos going. At the % where you could combo into Down B, you might as well have used CC Dsmash.
On Fox, you can get it to work around 100% if you angle Ftilt up, get the 80 degree hitbox and Fox doesn't DI. That's pretty situational but at least there are some conditions where it works. I think CC Ftilt is probably better used to get combos going. At the % where you could combo into Down B, you might as well have used CC Dsmash.
Cordless
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2014
- Messages
- 7
Absolutely. My tag is YREX and I may or may not have my big pink yoshi plushie with me but I'll be wearing my pink perler bead yoshi (avatar) for sure.
Speaking of which I just noticed your location listed as DFW, may I ask which area you are from? I'm from BC, Canada but I was just down there over Christmas to visit relatives.
Speaking of which I just noticed your location listed as DFW, may I ask which area you are from? I'm from BC, Canada but I was just down there over Christmas to visit relatives.
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McKinney area, north of Plano. And yes, lets definitely play~
My Genesis 3 summary:
I ended up making it out of Wave 1 pools and placing in the top 300 in Melee and tied for 17th place in Smash 64. I feel I played very well and learned quite a bit about the ICs MU. I found that I need to work more on my shield drops and tighten my spacing so I can play more efficiently.
The scale of the tournament was incredible, but it rarely felt crowded. The venue was able to accommodate everyone and the friendlies room was a very welcome addition that made the experience more enjoyable. I'd like to apologize to
hamyojo
and
Cordless
. I met them briefly on Friday and unfortunately didn't get to play friendlies with them because I got caught up in Smash 64, as I had pools for that game the following day. I hope you both also had a great time at the event!
On another note, does anyone here play yellow Yoshi? I briefly saw a good Yoshi player in the friendlies room that played yellow.
I ended up making it out of Wave 1 pools and placing in the top 300 in Melee and tied for 17th place in Smash 64. I feel I played very well and learned quite a bit about the ICs MU. I found that I need to work more on my shield drops and tighten my spacing so I can play more efficiently.
The scale of the tournament was incredible, but it rarely felt crowded. The venue was able to accommodate everyone and the friendlies room was a very welcome addition that made the experience more enjoyable. I'd like to apologize to
hamyojo
and
Cordless
. I met them briefly on Friday and unfortunately didn't get to play friendlies with them because I got caught up in Smash 64, as I had pools for that game the following day. I hope you both also had a great time at the event!On another note, does anyone here play yellow Yoshi? I briefly saw a good Yoshi player in the friendlies room that played yellow.
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It was nice meeting you man, and no worries! It was a very busy tourney in general, but hella fun. Maybe we can play at Genesis 4My Genesis 3 summary:
I ended up making it out of Wave 1 pools and placing in the top 300 in Melee and tied for 17th place in Smash 64. I feel I played very well and learned quite a bit about the ICs MU. I found that I need to work more on my shield drops and tighten my spacing so I can play more efficiently.
The scale of the tournament was incredible, but it rarely felt crowded. The venue was able to accommodate everyone and the friendlies room was a very welcome addition that made the experience more enjoyable. I'd like to apologize to
On another note, does anyone here play yellow Yoshi? I briefly saw a good Yoshi player in the friendlies room that played yellow.
Still never played against a good Yoshi before...And when I very rarely play Yoshi vs people who want Yoshi practice now I use mustard Yoshi, never playing pink Yoshi ever again. Too many bad memories.
lol, I'll be sure to use pink yoshi if we ever play haha. But I'm practicing a lot then going on a big tourney run, then only playing locals. I wanna see how good I can get in a few months. If any of you are going to the following tourneys we should play.
SN4, Pound2016, FP6. GOML, CEO, Evo(Biggest Maybe), SSC, TBH5, Genesis4
SN4, Pound2016, FP6. GOML, CEO, Evo(Biggest Maybe), SSC, TBH5, Genesis4
K
kofinater
, I saw your GFs vod of the PGH/NEOH arcadian. You did well capitalizing on Eggnawg's mistakes and that's what kept you in the set, but I noticed 3 big things that you should work on:
1. Edgeguarding Sheik. It looked like you were off on your get-up timing and then that caused you to lose confidence in edgehogging with normal get-up, which in turn gave your opponent some freebies getting back to the stage when you didn't think he would make it back. You also whiffed a lot of U-tilt punishes which probably would've been better as U-air, N-air, or F-air.
2. Eggnawg got so many free grabs on you from shield. Rather than trying a bunch of different ways to pressure shield, I think it's easier and more consistent to discourage shielding with grabs and Egg Lay. You tried for 2 dashgrabs in game 1 which whiffed due to z-axis nonsense and that seemed to discourage you from even attempting to grab for the rest of the set. I only remember seeing 2 attempted Egg Lays throughout 9 games, but you definitely could've landed a bunch of them because Eggnawg's shielding was incredibly predictable. Egg Lay is probably better in this matchup because it's easier to land, but if Samus players can condition opponents well enough to land a frame 18 grab, Yoshi should be able to as well.
3. There were a few knockdowns that you could've jab reset but didn't.
1. Edgeguarding Sheik. It looked like you were off on your get-up timing and then that caused you to lose confidence in edgehogging with normal get-up, which in turn gave your opponent some freebies getting back to the stage when you didn't think he would make it back. You also whiffed a lot of U-tilt punishes which probably would've been better as U-air, N-air, or F-air.
2. Eggnawg got so many free grabs on you from shield. Rather than trying a bunch of different ways to pressure shield, I think it's easier and more consistent to discourage shielding with grabs and Egg Lay. You tried for 2 dashgrabs in game 1 which whiffed due to z-axis nonsense and that seemed to discourage you from even attempting to grab for the rest of the set. I only remember seeing 2 attempted Egg Lays throughout 9 games, but you definitely could've landed a bunch of them because Eggnawg's shielding was incredibly predictable. Egg Lay is probably better in this matchup because it's easier to land, but if Samus players can condition opponents well enough to land a frame 18 grab, Yoshi should be able to as well.
3. There were a few knockdowns that you could've jab reset but didn't.
Ya, noticed a lot of that too. Thanks for watching though, a few things to work on for sure.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Man......
Hello fellow yoshi players...It has indeed been a minute...I've missed you all. I just now finished nearly reading this entire thread to see what I've missed up on and it's been alot. From genesis performers to locals and tournies I've missed alot...I'm definetely not going to say I'm back, (because I always say that and disappear again, life Johns) but for the time being I'm around...
I haven't attended or played in tourney since Evo 2015? It's been a while....but slowly but surely starting to realize that I really miss the game..
I just finished recently our AZ monthly tournament and got my first official 1st place finish at a monthly (with top 100 Talent) ...Still seems unreal to me to be quite honest...No idea if the video are gonna be uploaded (kinda don't care either lol) kinda just happy...perhaps it's the happiness I miss...or maybe you guys who knows...
Regardless I want to help out more along here in Any way that I can...
So again hello yoshi forum and if there's anything I can do to help contribute please let me know...I've thoroughly missed you guys and this game...
I want to say alot to all of the yoshi players whether it's critique or advice seems everyone in here had taken care of one another so I won't go far in the past and assist if it's not needed by me...but thank you everyone for being amazing
Hello fellow yoshi players...It has indeed been a minute...I've missed you all. I just now finished nearly reading this entire thread to see what I've missed up on and it's been alot. From genesis performers to locals and tournies I've missed alot...I'm definetely not going to say I'm back, (because I always say that and disappear again, life Johns) but for the time being I'm around...
I haven't attended or played in tourney since Evo 2015? It's been a while....but slowly but surely starting to realize that I really miss the game..
I just finished recently our AZ monthly tournament and got my first official 1st place finish at a monthly (with top 100 Talent) ...Still seems unreal to me to be quite honest...No idea if the video are gonna be uploaded (kinda don't care either lol) kinda just happy...perhaps it's the happiness I miss...or maybe you guys who knows...
Regardless I want to help out more along here in Any way that I can...
So again hello yoshi forum and if there's anything I can do to help contribute please let me know...I've thoroughly missed you guys and this game...
I want to say alot to all of the yoshi players whether it's critique or advice seems everyone in here had taken care of one another so I won't go far in the past and assist if it's not needed by me...but thank you everyone for being amazing
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Even if you're not all the way back you're advice and critique is always welcome
. I'm not sure if you'd be interested in joining the Skype group that's been put up (or if you're already in there) but if you want you can add festiveforlife and I'll put you in. Cheers and congratulations on the first place placement! I look forward to watching it if posted 
Egg.
Smash Journeyman
This may have already been covered, but does anyone have thoughts on how to deal with Sheik? It's probably a mix of my inexperience with melee and Sheik being Sheik, but I always struggle with escaping her chaingrab and tech chases. It also seems kind of hard to approach her safely since a whiffed attack can lead into a grab and lots of punishment.
I'm officially retiring from Melee for a while to focus on Smash 64. I'll still enter Melee events if 64 is also there, but I won't be attending any Melee-only tournaments after this weekend, which is the Norcal Arcadian. I have plans to return eventually, but I can't say for sure when that'll happen. In the meantime I have some footage from a tournament this past weekend:
Doubles:
Losers R4
Losers Semis (if you're going to watch at least one part, it should be the end)
Losers Finals
Singles:
Winners R2
Winners Semis
Losers Semis
Losers Finals
Doubles:
Losers R4
Losers Semis (if you're going to watch at least one part, it should be the end)
Losers Finals
Singles:
Winners R2
Winners Semis
Losers Semis
Losers Finals
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Hey everyone, sorry for the double post.
I rewatched my stream matches from the Norcal Arcadian yesterday and want to thank you all for supporting me and giving advice in the stream chat. Some of my tech was off sometimes since the only time I get to play is at tournaments because I don't have a setup at home. I felt I played my best and, while I think I could've taken the whole tournament, I'm still satisfied with how I did.
I am going to be taking a break from Melee now, but it is in no way permanent. I will likely still be checking these boards and answering questions/giving advice/theory crafting.
I rewatched my stream matches from the Norcal Arcadian yesterday and want to thank you all for supporting me and giving advice in the stream chat. Some of my tech was off sometimes since the only time I get to play is at tournaments because I don't have a setup at home. I felt I played my best and, while I think I could've taken the whole tournament, I'm still satisfied with how I did.
I am going to be taking a break from Melee now, but it is in no way permanent. I will likely still be checking these boards and answering questions/giving advice/theory crafting.
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DennysGrandSlamBreakfast
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2016
- Messages
- 1
Hey guys, just want to say thank you for all the great advice. Ive been playing Yoshi in Smash since before Melee even came out, but have only been competitive for 18 months. I've come a long way from what I call "Rock-Paper-Scissors" (hold shield and either roll left, roll right, or d-smash). I think I checked out this thread many years ago, when I was a little kid and looking at D1s videos of Fumi for curiosity's sake. How far we've come!
Coming back to this thread has been enlightening, thanks to everyone. Special thanks to Perhapsman for the yoshi trials and Amsa for teaching me to "use the booty" (reverse nair edgeguard) which I never would have discovered on my own.
A few questions:
1) How do you do retreating djc nair and egg lay? When I try, most of the time I turnaround or fair
2) Perhapsman had egg-roll from ledge in his yoshi trials, which I thought was interesting but have never seen in a match. Any uses?
3) I never Aerial interrupt. Worth learning over just mastering ledgedash options?
4) When a shiek grabs you, what exactly do you then do? I mash for a bit, then input up and in DI usually, then try to djc nair. Sometimes I break out early, sometimes I'm grabbed until 90% and I dont know what's different
5) Likewise, when a falco shines and is coming with a dair to pillar, what do you do? I focus on making the tech, but not sure exactly best DI and what inputs I should be doing
6) If a spacie DI aways dthrow, what's the followup? I've tried advancing fh fair but it doesn't come out in time
7) What situations/percents should you up-throw dsmash spacies instead of dthrow nair?
8) How do you get down vs Marth?
9) Good stages vs midtiers (mario bros, pikachu, ganon, samus)?
I'm so bad vs falcon that I usually switch to G&W so I wont even bother asking questions
Also some ideas from my many years of yoshi play:
1) I consider myself pretty good at doubles with the right partner. My strategy is to hold a corner, have my partner keep the other team back, and rain down eggs like a WW1 artillery barage. Great partners for this are peach and ganon. I do consider my onstage eggs to be what Im best at (14 years of practice across 4 smash games will do that)
2) Ive found WL back from side platform into a falling egg that gets you to grab ledge to be a great defensive option, especially when opponent is at end of invincibility
3) I claw with both a GC and a 64 controller, with my middle finger on R. Done it forever, works really well, but not sure I'd recommend if you're not used to it. I also took the spring out of the l-button and use it for everything except light shielding, and I highly recommend that
4) From the ledge, I feel what works really well is using a single ECE into either Fair or a ledgedash option (grab, dtilt, dsmash, nair work well for me). Once oponnent is conditioned to shield first egg and then punish, I shoot multiple eggs.
5) I think my best matchup (compared to other yoshis ofc) is peach. Just play like a ***** and throw a million eggs. WL/WD back into a short egg is good, and offstage egg-fair or egg-uair juggles work very well. Be prepared for 6 minute games.
6) Ive been throwing preemptive eggs vs. grabby players where I cover an unsafe approach with a lazy egg. If you get grabbed and egg hits, egg gives them 12% and grab release gives you 8%. Ive started games where I do this in the first 2 seconds vs shieks that I know gun for the CG. Very satisfying. Works well coming down from plats, if you are confident with your eggs
7) Know your spawn positions! I once started a game vs peach on FoD getting 6 eggs in a row. I killed a shiek once (only got 13% from a trade) because they started the game as zelda. Egg egg egg egg upair upair nair, edgeguard. I almost always start the game with an egg, usually run forward, and then egg during drop from platform. P3 and P4 help because you can act sooner at start of game, but sometimes they spawn in non-ideal positions
8) Lazy backwards eggs are great for platform techchases. You might be able to cover all options with the egg + an upair
9) Dont hate on Pokemon stadium! Ive found transformations to be good, but best is during transformation back to neutral stage. As you saw vs. M2Ks fox, if youre egg camping, change trajectory to hit them during the reset and then go ham. I think its best stage vs. Peach, and pretty good vs. Marth and Jiggs
Coming back to this thread has been enlightening, thanks to everyone. Special thanks to Perhapsman for the yoshi trials and Amsa for teaching me to "use the booty" (reverse nair edgeguard) which I never would have discovered on my own.
A few questions:
1) How do you do retreating djc nair and egg lay? When I try, most of the time I turnaround or fair
2) Perhapsman had egg-roll from ledge in his yoshi trials, which I thought was interesting but have never seen in a match. Any uses?
3) I never Aerial interrupt. Worth learning over just mastering ledgedash options?
4) When a shiek grabs you, what exactly do you then do? I mash for a bit, then input up and in DI usually, then try to djc nair. Sometimes I break out early, sometimes I'm grabbed until 90% and I dont know what's different
5) Likewise, when a falco shines and is coming with a dair to pillar, what do you do? I focus on making the tech, but not sure exactly best DI and what inputs I should be doing
6) If a spacie DI aways dthrow, what's the followup? I've tried advancing fh fair but it doesn't come out in time
7) What situations/percents should you up-throw dsmash spacies instead of dthrow nair?
8) How do you get down vs Marth?
9) Good stages vs midtiers (mario bros, pikachu, ganon, samus)?
I'm so bad vs falcon that I usually switch to G&W so I wont even bother asking questions
Also some ideas from my many years of yoshi play:
1) I consider myself pretty good at doubles with the right partner. My strategy is to hold a corner, have my partner keep the other team back, and rain down eggs like a WW1 artillery barage. Great partners for this are peach and ganon. I do consider my onstage eggs to be what Im best at (14 years of practice across 4 smash games will do that)
2) Ive found WL back from side platform into a falling egg that gets you to grab ledge to be a great defensive option, especially when opponent is at end of invincibility
3) I claw with both a GC and a 64 controller, with my middle finger on R. Done it forever, works really well, but not sure I'd recommend if you're not used to it. I also took the spring out of the l-button and use it for everything except light shielding, and I highly recommend that
4) From the ledge, I feel what works really well is using a single ECE into either Fair or a ledgedash option (grab, dtilt, dsmash, nair work well for me). Once oponnent is conditioned to shield first egg and then punish, I shoot multiple eggs.
5) I think my best matchup (compared to other yoshis ofc) is peach. Just play like a ***** and throw a million eggs. WL/WD back into a short egg is good, and offstage egg-fair or egg-uair juggles work very well. Be prepared for 6 minute games.
6) Ive been throwing preemptive eggs vs. grabby players where I cover an unsafe approach with a lazy egg. If you get grabbed and egg hits, egg gives them 12% and grab release gives you 8%. Ive started games where I do this in the first 2 seconds vs shieks that I know gun for the CG. Very satisfying. Works well coming down from plats, if you are confident with your eggs
7) Know your spawn positions! I once started a game vs peach on FoD getting 6 eggs in a row. I killed a shiek once (only got 13% from a trade) because they started the game as zelda. Egg egg egg egg upair upair nair, edgeguard. I almost always start the game with an egg, usually run forward, and then egg during drop from platform. P3 and P4 help because you can act sooner at start of game, but sometimes they spawn in non-ideal positions
8) Lazy backwards eggs are great for platform techchases. You might be able to cover all options with the egg + an upair
9) Dont hate on Pokemon stadium! Ive found transformations to be good, but best is during transformation back to neutral stage. As you saw vs. M2Ks fox, if youre egg camping, change trajectory to hit them during the reset and then go ham. I think its best stage vs. Peach, and pretty good vs. Marth and Jiggs