Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
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#1
This thread isn't a discussion of who the best Yoshi player is, that much should be obvious and unanimous. This thread should be a discussion of how much MORE **** his Yoshi is than any other Yoshi on our planet. I say OUR planet, because he is clearly on another planet, no, another DIMENSION that transcends our understanding of the universe.

When you doubt your character, you should doubt yourself, as V3ctorman has shown us all true greatness in the self-efficacy and determination displayed in this beautifully developed Yoshi in such a short time. V3ctorman is the best Yoshi of 2010 and possibly for years to come. All aspiring Yoshi mains, and gamers in general should acknowledge and revere in his hard work, determination, and ability to finely tune this character that is known by many to be so weak and nonviable in competitive play.

V3ctorman, in all his grace, has even offered to discuss the Yoshi metagame and share his knowledge of character match-ups with all of you aspiring Yoshi players.
 

V3ctorMan

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#4
Allrite, Shiri, ArcNatural I appreciate you both giving us, Me, Taj the opportunity to keep the thread open, I will tell Taj, and of course I will fix the thread... There was no negativity intended or favoritism towards our region or anything...just Taj helping me out as a Yoshi player to get our community to grow

@Taj - OMG, you're sooooooo awesome, <3ing this thread... but yeah... I want to make it like a critique/advice thread combined with something familiar like Taj's character discussion thread he has in the Mewtwo section! ^^
 

KAOSTAR

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#7
how do you grab ledge and egg. you jump and egg or reverse egg?



mewtwo players are slowly taking over the yoshi boards.

lol I wanna play yoshi no joke.

but mewtwo is better. no joke.
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
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#9
I thought yoshi's nair is decent to beat puffs bair. Egg camp(sb camp)?

yoshi's own bair?


what can I do out of throws? which one do I use to tech chase or combo?
 
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#11
I thought yoshi's nair is decent to beat puffs bair. Egg camp(sb camp)?

yoshi's own bair?


what can I do out of throws? which one do I use to tech chase or combo?
down throw mostly (buffer to try and get no/wrong di), its ideal for comboing fastfallers, and downthrow fair on pikachu. upthrow works better on floaties. fthrow to fthrow on floaties may work sometimes.

you camp eggs on the ledge against jiggs, and you contest her aerial game with fsmash upsmash and countering with double jump nair/upair. its surprisingly easy to djc through her backair. then when she's out of range just throw more eggs and try to bair her into your upsmash. you can also sometimes get past her aerial movement with your own momentum shifts in the air (rdjc fair).
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#12
hey sean I have a question did you ever master ledge stalling for your anger? Also puff is mad fun I think.

also how does yoisho deal with range issues? his projectile can't set-up anything without being in their face. sheild kindof fails. I know as pichu I really don't notice marth's range anymore because I can easily take him a part on most stages. but how do you do that as yoshi? pichu feels like he has more range sometimes WTF fox's jab has greater range than pichu f-smash by like 1.5 times larger. And fox's jab has short range.
 

SDC

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#13
hey sean I have a question did you ever master ledge stalling for your anger? Also puff is mad fun I think.

also how does yoisho deal with range issues? his projectile can't set-up anything without being in their face. sheild kindof fails. I know as pichu I really don't notice marth's range anymore because I can easily take him a part on most stages. but how do you do that as yoshi? pichu feels like he has more range sometimes WTF fox's jab has greater range than pichu f-smash by like 1.5 times larger. And fox's jab has short range.
No, I just realized that getting overly emotional in a match is pointless, and irrational. Staying calm not only keeps me happier so I actually enjoy playing the game, but also it helps me play better.

@MindTrick:
I do recognize that DJC is a very useful tool, and quite helpful in many situations, but I honestly doubt that yoshi can counter much of jiggz' ariel game if she actually spaces well, but if you have vids of this happening then please post away.
 

V3ctorMan

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#14
how do you grab ledge and egg. you jump and egg or reverse egg?

mewtwo players are slowly taking over the yoshi boards.

lol I wanna play yoshi no joke.

but mewtwo is better. no joke.
Oh wow, yay Yoshi thread's getting some attention ^^, and questions too ^^ allrite here we go! <3... What I like to do for the egg throw is usually just to run towards the corner of the edge..and Up+B, and it's nearly always a sweet spot... on the reverse egg throw... a bit more difficult, but...

I try to flick my controller in the opposite direction of the edge i'm holding than move counterclockwise to the other direction to aim the egg(s) then flick back towards the stage, to be close enough to the edge to regrab.. I used to find this difficult, but Axe gave me this tip, and it's been working very well for me ^^

You should play Yoshi, he's freaking awesome!, Mewtwo is better? hmmm for the time being I suppose I can agree with that.. hehe <3 Kaos

I'm a jiggz player now. :bee:

yeah.

And Vman I'd honestly like an answer to that question, it seems to me that jiggz could **** yoshi by just spacing backairs alone, but if you know better, please inform me. :)
Sad to say, but you are mostly right... spacing bair, is very difficult to get through as all of Yoshi's aerials either trade, or get outprioritized... Yoshi's Fsmash is suprisingly good vs Bair as Yoshi's head moves backwards "evading the hit" than delivering the hit as well, so Fsmash can be played with handily here... from what i've experienced, and I could be wrong but Fsmash appears as if it either outprioritizes Jiggs bair, - or trades, and this is one of the "good" trades Yoshi has.. :) Usmash, is also very good on Jigglypuff! n_n


I thought yoshi's nair is decent to beat puffs bair. Egg camp(sb camp)?

yoshi's own bair?

what can I do out of throws? which one do I use to tech chase or combo?
Yoshi's D-throw is by far the most combo potential, but sadly on floaties, they go to high to further combo... I mostly use back-throw or F-throw and usually follow with a Full jump Fair, U-throw is good too and can surprise unexpecting opponents. :)
Yoshi's Bair/Nair, both trade with Jiggz Bair, but Nair is the safer option, as Nair stays out longer, however, Id not recommend challenging a Jiggs bair with Yoshi aerials, risking on losing Yoshi's only jump (DJC) :( however, DJC, Nair's do somewhat well on Jiggz with proper timing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ely7VTpG3N4

Yeah, I doubt that. lol.

EDIT: this thread IS ask Vman, not Kaostar. lol <333 kaos
Lol SDC, I'm sure Kaos was just trying to help as well, but yeah. ^^ Thanks you guys! <3 Hope this all helps :)
 

SDC

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#15
Sad to say, but you are mostly right... spacing bair, is very difficult to get through as all of Yoshi's aerials either trade, or get outprioritized... Yoshi's Fsmash is suprisingly good vs Bair as Yoshi's head moves backwards "evading the hit" than delivering the hit as well, so Fsmash can be played with handily here... from what i've experienced, and I could be wrong but Fsmash appears as if it either outprioritizes Jiggs bair, - or trades, and this is one of the "good" trades Yoshi has.. :)
Interesting, and yes I can see how yoshi's fsmash can be a useful mixup with his defense, but I don't see it being consistently useful, and it would probably get predictable very quickly if utilized too much, and we all know how jiggz likes to punish opponents who are frozen in move-lag :chuckle:

I do think that an experienced yoshi who skillfully utilizes DJC would provide a temporary challenge to new jiggz players, but I think once they figure out the counter, and react and space appropriately....I don't really see yoshi as having much of a chance. :urg:

Lol SDC, I'm sure Kaos was just trying to help as well, but yeah. ^^ Thanks you guys! <3 Hope this all helps :)
Lol yeah I'm sure. <33 all my mewtwo buddies. <333
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#16
so you don't answer my question? D*** m2 mains mad about the 1600-1960s just because i'm white doesn't mean I hate you.

however the thing is will this last for more than a week?

also pichu more of a puff counter than yoshi. thunder rapes, she can't approach him if he is above if pichu knows how to play well, missed rest= death at 25% on ANY stage, a number of noce 20% combos like f-throw nair, jolt=up-smash/nair, upair thunder and etc. Also please note most of those things are pichu only not pikachu also.
 
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#17
I want to learn Yoshi very much. I'm so happy that we have Vman to show us a thing or two. This is a wonderful game, and I frankly think it's a shame that so many characters have yet to be pushed to their limits.

It'd be great if we could build up a respectable Yoshi community. This thread should cater perfectly toward that goal.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#18
everyone counts why I always try to learn more about pichu and fillay I think i've come to the point where no one esle knows anything I don't know about pichu I finally learn f-smash SDI it rapes me in pichu dittos and now I know what's up.

but i'll come by and say hi everynow and then like I do anyways.
 

V3ctorMan

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#19
hey sean I have a question did you ever master ledge stalling for your anger? Also puff is mad fun I think.

also how does yoisho deal with range issues? his projectile can't set-up anything without being in their face. sheild kindof fails. I know as pichu I really don't notice marth's range anymore because I can easily take him a part on most stages. but how do you do that as yoshi? pichu feels like he has more range sometimes WTF fox's jab has greater range than pichu f-smash by like 1.5 times larger. And fox's jab has short range.
Umm Yoshi's projectile, IMO is the most unique, useful projectile in the game actually, his projectile is curvy, on top of that, you can aim around/anywhere you believe you can put it at. =) it can setup gimps, and put your opponent in uncomfortable positions..

I want to learn Yoshi very much. I'm so happy that we have Vman to show us a thing or two. This is a wonderful game, and I frankly think it's a shame that so many characters have yet to be pushed to their limits.

It'd be great if we could build up a respectable Yoshi community. This thread should cater perfectly toward that goal.
I completely agree Chival, and that's the goal of this thread ^^.. Of course it's not just designated towards me, any of you Yoshi players, that know knowledge I'd greatly appreciate.. Shiri, Mind, anyone ^^ just wanna get this Yoshi community started... so I'm tryin to be the motivator ^^

Yoshi's awesome you guys <33
 

SDC

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#20
so you don't answer my question? D*** m2 mains mad about the 1600-1960s just because i'm white doesn't mean I hate you.
lmao this is your most humorous post yet. ICG you crack me up. I'm white too dude, and the mewtwo boards have always treated me well.
<333 taj vman kaos full homo

however the thing is will this last for more than a week?
It'll last as long as the yoshi boards/mods want it to, and my guess is that will be for a very long time. Why close an advice thread by an experienced player who could help those with less knowledge about the character they like and its matchups?

also pichu more of a puff counter than yoshi. thunder rapes, she can't approach him if he is above if pichu knows how to play well, missed rest= death at 25% on ANY stage, a number of noce 20% combos like f-throw nair, jolt=up-smash/nair, upair thunder and etc. Also please note most of those things are pichu only not pikachu also.
Until you or another pichu main proves any of this, and actually starts beating top puffs, nobody will take any of this very seriously. If you want people to give the claim "pichu can counter jiggz" any credibility, then start posting vids that verify that claim.

everyone counts why I always try to learn more about pichu and fillay I think i've come to the point where no one esle knows anything I don't know about pichu I finally learn f-smash SDI it rapes me in pichu dittos and now I know what's up.

but i'll come by and say hi everynow and then like I do anyways.
This thread is about yoshi, not pichu, lol. Please keep it on topic.

To Vman:
How do you deal with that sexy little dance that falco does on your shield? (IE pillaring/falco jab shine dair nair lazers etc shield pressure)
 

leffen

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#21
Also gonna start playing some Yoshi ;D
btw fair to downb from ground is death combo from like 70% o_O
pretty good if you get them in the right spot
 

V3ctorMan

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#22
Also gonna start playing some Yoshi ;D
btw fair to downb from ground is death combo from like 70% o_O
pretty good if you get them in the right spot
Fair > Down B is not a "real" combo, it will work with techs in place, or immediate get up attacks...(this is also taking into fact if the opponent does not meteor cancel > attempt to counterattack to)

Down B - starting from the ground is amazing!! interesting surprise kills, and kills at low % on some characters too n_n

and woot.. yeah another Yoshi player always good to know ^^

This thread is about yoshi, not pichu, lol. Please keep it on topic.

To Vman:
How do you deal with that sexy little dance that falco does on your shield? (IE pillaring/falco jab shine dair nair lazers etc shield pressure)
lol, well this is actually I consider it like a game of chess, (except I have no turns) but since Falco is much more aggressive with Yoshi, I always attempt to play OoS.. mostly to do w/the shield pressure I always light shield to have Yoshi, slide away, and I can attempt a re-approach...I have to go thru this process multiple times until I find an opening that I'm comfortable enough with.. to at least start the first hit, if i can get that first hit, than for those few seconds, Falco is wonderful combo food for Yoshi... =D

another thing I attempt but not so much, but for the aggressive Falco's that aren't technically consistent, I usually try to fullshield, to bait them towards the edge...once near, I attempt either a roll, Dtilt < which hopefully will lead to falco attempting to tech but w/the set knockback... will buffer and the Falco will Air dodge to their misery.. ^^ the other is releasing a shield, and attempting, U-Tilt/D-tilt, both work exceptionally well. n_n

Hope this helps! ^^
 

SDC

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#24
Fair > Down B is not a "real" combo, it will work with techs in place, or immediate get up attacks...(this is also taking into fact if the opponent does not meteor cancel > attempt to counterattack to)

Down B - starting from the ground is amazing!! interesting surprise kills, and kills at low % on some characters too n_n

and woot.. yeah another Yoshi player always good to know ^^



lol, well this is actually I consider it like a game of chess, (except I have no turns) but since Falco is much more aggressive with Yoshi, I always attempt to play OoS.. mostly to do w/the shield pressure I always light shield to have Yoshi, slide away, and I can attempt a re-approach...I have to go thru this process multiple times until I find an opening that I'm comfortable enough with.. to at least start the first hit, if i can get that first hit, than for those few seconds, Falco is wonderful combo food for Yoshi... =D

another thing I attempt but not so much, but for the aggressive Falco's that aren't technically consistent, I usually try to fullshield, to bait them towards the edge...once near, I attempt either a roll, Dtilt < which hopefully will lead to falco attempting to tech but w/the set knockback... will buffer and the Falco will Air dodge to their misery.. ^^ the other is releasing a shield, and attempting, U-Tilt/D-tilt, both work exceptionally well. n_n

Hope this helps! ^^
Interesting stuff. Yeah playing carefully and safely until you find a hole in their game sounds like an intelligent approach to the matchup.

I'm actually quite interested in how a yoshi main would respond to the basic tactics of all of the top characters (fox, falco, jiggz, sheik, marth, peach, captain falcon), so if you don't mind, I'll be asking you several questions that relate to that subject through the next couple of days. :)
 

Airwalkerr

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#25
VMan, do you know much about the parry in SSBM? Like, have you ever used it in a match? Because although it is difficult, you get the invincibility of Yoshi's shield without actually going into the shield, or losing your double jump. If timed impeccably, I could see a Yoshi parrying a Jiggs bair followed by a dair for full damage.
^^ unrealistic, yes, but hopefully possible.
Parry: Jump cancelling your shield within the first 3 frames, can work into an aerial or a grab
 

V3ctorMan

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#27
fair so they fly up and then down b from the ground, used it and tried it multiple times, im 100% sure its a true combo
Oh, yes, i'm sorry, I was assuming as if you hit them with the Fair as if they were airborne, my sincere apologies ^^

and yep that works fairly nicely!, hopefully no DI, to make it ensured ^^
 

SheerMadness

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#28
VMan, do you know much about the parry in SSBM? Like, have you ever used it in a match? Because although it is difficult, you get the invincibility of Yoshi's shield without actually going into the shield, or losing your double jump. If timed impeccably, I could see a Yoshi parrying a Jiggs bair followed by a dair for full damage.
^^ unrealistic, yes, but hopefully possible.
Parry: Jump cancelling your shield within the first 3 frames, can work into an aerial or a grab
I think most Yoshi's have seen my thread/video and know about parrying.

I haven't seen anyone doing it in matches yet. I'm not sure a lot of people understand that it is actually possible to do it consistently in matches. Or they just haven't practiced enough with it to do it in real matches.

Too bad I can't give my parrying to skills to a good Yoshi player like Vman lol. My Yoshi is god awful aside from parrying. But I hope to put up some vids soon just to show people that parrying can be extremely effective in actual matches, especially against Fox/Falco.
 

V3ctorMan

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#29
VMan, do you know much about the parry in SSBM? Like, have you ever used it in a match? Because although it is difficult, you get the invincibility of Yoshi's shield without actually going into the shield, or losing your double jump. If timed impeccably, I could see a Yoshi parrying a Jiggs bair followed by a dair for full damage.
^^ unrealistic, yes, but hopefully possible.
Parry: Jump cancelling your shield within the first 3 frames, can work into an aerial or a grab
Good question, and actually, I have experimented, and used Supershielding in matches... a 64 Yoshi player "SheerMadness" is a great Yoshi player who can explain this as well...

I'm even "above average" it at as well, However, just in the "current metagame" I don't recommend it to use often at all... Players are becoming more patient... more "mind games" are being implemented into game play, and most importantly players are just getting much better. And all these are too risky to attempt to put Yoshi in shieling position(s) the technique itself is difficult, but once you've accumulated the timing down..it's very viable.... I just personally don't think it'd be too wise, to do in this current metagame.... I've done it to players who aren't quite as good as I am, and even how cool/useful it is... I believe Yoshi has other potentially good options....

Characters such as Falcon/Ganon, that have some visible start up, these parrying techniques are a bit more easy to pull off, but as players get better and evolve, the "primary " focus IMO, is to get Yoshi at the competent enough level to be able to even compete with Top players...then once that's established, I will begin to focus more on this parrying subject... but at this moment, I don't doubt my yoshi's capabilities and will further invest into parrying once I feel as I've met a wall, but hopefully that won't be too soon :)
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#30
I wasn't saying pichu counters anything he simplely does better vs puff than he should.


Also I don't really think the egg could call it's self one of the best projectiles yes it is hella good on the edge/ edge gaurd but it lack what jolts/lasers(falco), fireballs, and pills can do if you land them and your doing it right it's a free 2nd hit I don't see yoshi approaching with eggs to set up combos and keep them pressure on it seems more like keep the pressure going like if you knock them to high in the sky egg one way to cut away at their di options and hit them on the other side.

Also how will eggs let you take on marth's range?
 
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#32
Eggs aint no falco's laser thats for sure, but it's still really really good, especially from the edge and when your opponent is in the air.
I rarely use eggs as an approach because it simply doesn't work, you have other tools to tackle marths range, these mostly being djcounter, cc, your aerial mobility and fsmash pullback. Also having no shieldstun is really underrated, shield release actually works against marths more laggy stuff.
 

leffen

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#33
Can someone please get the frame data on djc nair? I've recently learned doing it frame perfect on shield ;D
Other moves like jab, uair and fair would also be appriciated.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#35
I read it really there are an insane amount of details in there no where are much as the ness one, then again in the ness guide they had a lot of extra unneeded fat to it. i've read all the melee guides but for the falco ones.
 

V3ctorMan

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#38
V3ctorMan, will you be using Yoshi in tourney? Or did you already...? (Iz dumb.)
I will be using Yoshi in tourney so don't worry, sadly there haven't been any in AZ for a good while... and i've been playing Yoshi for around 3 months, just lucky i've been very successful thus far ^^

I' should be attending supercon and Rom3, and hopefully more regionals too, ^^ but yeah I'll be using Yoshi in tourney for sure ^^
 

Zone

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#39
Vectorman,
are you simply pivot edgehogging? how do you grab the edge when running off w/o shooting a egg.

also, Yoshi lays eggz, are all yoshi's girls?

Also, Do you always double jump before you waveland? do you ever just single jump from the ground and waveland? seems you double jump almost everytime before you waveland a platform. Is it just to cover the possibility you might get hit while jumping so you're not interrupted? Just feels like a normal jump waveland is faster than doing a really quick double jump to waveland.

Also do you know any tricks that you could do if your opponent is trabbed in a egg? because I know you can hit them while they are in it. but when they pop out of it is there nothing you can do to start a string of combos? Like taking advantage of their vulnerability after escaping ur egg. (Assuming there is any vulnerability)
 

KrazyKnux

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#40
Vectorman,
are you simply pivot edgehogging? how do you grab the edge when running off w/o shooting a egg.
If you run of the edge, point the control stick towards the stage and press jump, then he automatically grabs the edge and there's no need for an up-b edgehog (both methods are really sexy though lol). But yeah, I'll let V3ctorMan confirm that =D

Anyway, I haven't read through this thread enough but I'm so glad it's here. For the longest time I've been saying/thinking that Yoshi is underrated and picked him up as my low tier character. However, I didn't have anyone to model after, or enough resources so I had to formulate most of the strategies by myself. I'll definitely read up and practice some more Yoshi soon! I had been hoping to start using him exclusively sometime, but we'll see how that works out.

I look forward to seeing some tournament results with your Yoshi! Definitely go to ROM3, that would be awesome. If so I'll have to play you there! =D
 
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