Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[san.]

Yes, I fastfall. + The cstick was set to smash anyways. I was using CPU control to stay the same % everytime I die, and their controls are the default with tap jump.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

What other uses does Dair have besides the occasional spike and momentum canceling?

 

[Kirk]

Keep in mind also, if you hold down on the control stick and press C-stick down, you don't get the fast fall.

 

[Reg15]

Glad to say that I most likely will be attending my first offline tourney Saturday xD.

Also I might have to test out my cstick on smash more.

 

[Max113]

What other uses does Dair have besides the occasional spike and momentum canceling?

That's about it...

What's up guys? I haven't been here is like... 5-6 months....

 

[Nysyarc]

What other uses does Dair have besides the occasional spike and momentum canceling?

Check the (mostly one-sided) debate I've been having with the new dude in the video critique thread. I basically shut down the possibility of Dair having any practical uses on-stage when there are so many better options.

Keep in mind also, if you hold down on the control stick and press C-stick down, you don't get the fast fall.

Wahuh?

*Rethinks life*

I mostly do a Dair manually (control stick down and A) for vertical momentum cancel out of habit anyways, so I guess I'm safe for that; but it may explain your wonky results San, provided you were c-sticking the Dairs. It doesn't make sense that Dair could be that much worse than all the other aerials for momentum cancel.

 

[Ussi]

Dair is manly to use on stage. I use it to eat ledge get ups raaawr D:< well.. its not that great >_>

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Oh goodie, I found another entertaining topic! :D

*reads ADHD's hissy fit "BAAAAAAAAAW I don't has two CPs a set any more BAAAAAAAAAAAAW" topic under MLG Brawl*

 

[Teh Brettster]

MOMENTUM CANCEL DEBATE

****ing magnets. How do they work?

 

[san.]

Keep in mind also, if you hold down on the control stick and press C-stick down, you don't get the fast fall.

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Because I always had to push down anyways with c-stick attack anyways, it actually had the opposite effect when I had to use cstick smash. I remember holding to the side, then after I get hit when I'm in the air, quarter-circle downards and input the cstick direction.

I tried this again for another 30 minutes-45mins and everything was consistent with what we originally had (all aerials just about the same), which is what I expected. I survived until at most 136 on FD (just regular DI) with all aerials.

Originally, I was just practicing DIing snake's uptilt.

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

don't be surprised if the best momentum canceling technique is weird. On the snake boards we tested it out and our best vertical momentum canceling move is up air even thought back air starts and ends earlier.

 

[theeboredone]

San is wrong?! WHAT?!

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

San is wrong?! WHAT?!

No and i would never say such a thing. What i'm saying is just because it doesn't make sense that up air would be better than down air don't think you tested it wrong. At first we didn't believe it on the snake boards because why would you want to put your body nearer the blast zone but it is better. I've seen ally do both back air and up air to momentum cancel and I won't argue with his DI but up air is better. And I know what everybody else on this board will say but san who would win Shaky or you?

 

[theeboredone]

I was referring to San's own post. I already stated earlier that there might be other properties besides frame rate to how momentum canceling works.

 

[Jinkwai]

Sup, guys? Long time, not post.

First off, here's a vid of me bullying a scrub and the best IC in NC (imho).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYswCPXTnwg

Second, Good job to San at MLG. You are my hero and I hope to meet you at MLG Raleigh. Speaking of which....

Any Ike main that needs a place to stay during MLG Raleigh, holla at me. I think I can arrange something.

 

[Heartstring]

Uh, what do you mean by this thing Mr. Doom is doing? What is it that I'm doing that makes you interested? I'd like to know.

you know, you wanted some people to test out new level's of this game you were doing, i think that was it anyway

also momentum cancelling, i think its a little random, something i think should possibly be tested is the horizontal DI, im still confuz at how airdodge is better than ariel's at this, also, after momentum cancelling horizontally, is jumping at bad idea? cause i swear the otehr day i got hit, di'd it, and the jumped and died, i thougth jumping change to the direction you were holding, but meh

 

[Teh Brettster]

Jumping is WHY we air dodge. AD ends earlier than any aerial attack. Therefore, we can jump faster after an air dodge if we don't think we'll survive otherwise.
Of course, if you will survive anyway, save that jump. You'll need it for a better recovery.

 

[Mr. Doom]

you know, you wanted some people to test out new level's of this game you were doing, i think that was it anyway

Well, in that case, just have a copy of Doom 2 ready and follow the link on my sig. You can find Doom 2 on the internet.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, in that case, just have a copy of Doom 2 ready and follow the link on my sig. You can find Doom 2 on the internet.

Lol, from the way GP worded that I don't think he knows what Doom 2 is. Nobody who's played Doom would refer to it as "this game you were doing", it's legendary.

Also, I just found out my uncle has Doom 2 on his computer and that he can send my dad the files. So I may be able to try out your levels using my dad's computer. I'd asked him if he could get it before but there's no way in Canada to legally obtain a copy of the game without paying craploads of shipping and handling to order it. In the meantime and in case something goes wrong with that, I'll start downloading all that stuff for my Mac now.

To sum it up, I be gettin' me some Doom.

 

[Heartstring]

Well, in that case, just have a copy of Doom 2 ready and follow the link on my sig. You can find Doom 2 on the internet.

aww crap, this means i need to have a video card thingy in my computer dosent it (i mean the thing that allows your computer to play games and such on it)
if thats the case, never mind, ive spent a small fortune on all possible video cards and software to get games to work on here....it dosent do it TT_TT
so err, what actualyl is doom 2?

 

[Nysyarc]

so err, what actualyl is doom 2?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorJfexzF4M

 

[theeboredone]

so err, what actualyl is doom 2?

You had no childhood.

also momentum cancelling, i think its a little random, something i think should possibly be tested is the horizontal DI, im still confuz at how airdodge is better than ariel's at this

It is, now stop being confused about it.

 

[theeboredone]

double post, my bad.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

First off, here's a vid of me bullying a scrub and the best IC in NC (imho).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYswCPXTnwg

That's a lot of Fairs. O_O.
I find it funny that next MLG is over at Raleigh when I returned from Animazement with my Anime Club about a week ago.

 

[Heartstring]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorJfexzF4M

well, this explains why i never played it, i was 14 months old when it was released XD

 

[metroid1117]

Just a random tidbit... against characters who suffer from the up+B landing lag glitch (if they auto-sweetspot the edge, the next time they go through their landing animation when they hit the ground they will suffer landing lag, as though they landed on the stage; characters like Marth, Falcon, and Ganondorf have this) - at low %s, you can not only jab -> FTilt/FSmash, but you can also BThrow -> USmash. A simple solution for them, however, is to just edgehop an attack so they don't go through the landing animation. Even so, I feel that it's something to look out for; free damage is always good.

 

[Nysyarc]

Just a random tidbit... against characters who suffer from the up+B landing lag glitch (if they auto-sweetspot the edge, the next time they go through their landing animation when they hit the ground they will suffer landing lag, as though they landed on the stage; characters like Marth, Falcon, and Ganondorf have this) - at low %s, you can not only jab -> FTilt/FSmash, but you can also BThrow -> USmash. A simple solution for them, however, is to just edgehop an attack so they don't go through the landing animation. Even so, I feel that it's something to look out for; free damage is always good.

Wait, what exactly happens? So if they use their upB and sweet-spot the ledge, the next time they hit the ground in a way that is tech-able (or not, maybe you just mean a hard landing... or something entirely different?) they will suffer landing lag consistent with landing their upB on the stage. I don't see how that gives us Jab -> Ftilt/Fsmash though... I'm so confused.

I'm also guessing this doesn't happen a lot because I play Ganondorf, Marth and Captain Falcon fairly often and I've never encountered it... at least not that I know of.

 

[Mr. Doom]

LOL, they used to call it Marth lag, but now it is known as BSL (Bull**** lag). A few people studied about it, but Mr. Doom knew about it beforehand.

Basically, certain characters--Mario, Luigi, Ganon, Marth, Falcon, Falco, Fox, Charizard, and some others--use their special move that puts them in the helpless animation. If they snap the ledge or get hit out of helpless animation, then the BSL will activate. This BSL will stay active until the said characters land on the ground. However, they can't use any special moves while trying to land because the BSL will remain active. When characters land the correct way while BSL is active, they cannot interrupt the landing animation until it is completely finished. In turn, regular hard and soft lands that can be interrupted on frame 4 and 2, respectively, will lengthen to like... 30 and 10, respectively. The landing animation all depends on the character.

Bleah, nobody has any youtube videos up about this, so I'll probably go ahead and do something about it.

 

[metroid1117]

Bleah, nobody has any youtube videos up about this, so I'll probably go ahead and do something about it.

I vaguely remember a video describing the glitch with Captain Falcon and Mario, but I can't find it anymore.

Wait, what exactly happens? So if they use their upB and sweet-spot the ledge, the next time they hit the ground in a way that is tech-able (or not, maybe you just mean a hard landing... or something entirely different?) they will suffer landing lag consistent with landing their upB on the stage. I don't see how that gives us Jab -> Ftilt/Fsmash though... I'm so confused.

I'm also guessing this doesn't happen a lot because I play Ganondorf, Marth and Captain Falcon fairly often and I've never encountered it... at least not that I know of.

Mr. Doom described what happens. If it happens, it should look like as though they landed from their up+B and undergo the landing lag. You can either jab or BThrow to trigger it, but I've found that at lower %s, BThrow is easier to use because some characters could use an aerial after you jab them so that they suffer aerial landing lag rather than the BSL that Mr. Doom talked about. How it should look if you do it with BThrow is BThrow -> you chase them and charge an USmash -> they land on the ground and can't move -> connect with USmash.

 

[YagamiLight]

If anyone cares, here's a topic on this recovery lag:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223914

 

[Teh Brettster]

MLG Dallas

 

[Nysyarc]

Hmm, well thanks for clarifying guys, I had no idea what it was, lol. I'll have to test it out myself now to see it first hand, I'm surprised I've never noticed it before because my brother mains Falco and I play Luigi/Fox sometimes in addition to the others I mentioned...

I just thought of something, because a local Luigi main and some others who second him tend to do this often (yah my smash scene has pocket Luigis... get at me), if they are near the edge of a stage and whoever they are fighting is at middling percents, they will go for a Jab -> Fire Punch or just Fire Punch and then grab the ledge to avoid the landing lag if they miss or sometimes even if they connect.

So what you guys are saying is that when they do this (of course they've just grabbed the ledge from the helpless fall state), I could then grab them if they jump but before they hit the ground and then Bthrow -> basically guaranteed Usmash. Now my understanding is that if they jump off of the ledge and land on the stage before I am able to grab them, the BSL will activate on it's own and unless I am right beside them when that happens, I will have lost my chance?

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that. If I'm right it means I could have a nasty surprise for the next one of them who tries it on me.

 

[CloudChaser071]

Link
Marth up: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227754

lolwut? Marth up?


Anyways, awesome guide! I like reading the specific character MU's, and then i came across Link's. I laughed at the misspelling

 

[Nysyarc]

NS BRAWL POWER RANKINGS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Billybeegood (+2) ---- /
2. Zhao (-1) ----
3. Raziek (+1) ----
4. Nysyarc (New) ----
5. Lamb (-3) ----
6. KMAG (He's back!) ---- / / :random:
7. Croi (New) ---- /
8. Orb. (-3) ---- /
9. Adapt (-2) ----
10. Drake (-2) ----

The local PRs here in NS, they hadn't been updated in months. I like seeing that Ike face in there amidst the Snake, Marth, etc... You can see the diversity in the higher levels of our smash scene though. I like it because we all get tons of experience in a variety of match-ups.

 

[theeboredone]

NS must be really lacking in the skill department huh?

 

[-RedX-]

I thought Zhao quit. ;O

So what you guys are saying is that when they do this (of course they've just grabbed the ledge from the helpless fall state), I could then grab them if they jump but before they hit the ground and then Bthrow -> basically guaranteed Usmash. Now my understanding is that if they jump off of the ledge and land on the stage before I am able to grab them, the BSL will activate on it's own and unless I am right beside them when that happens, I will have lost my chance?

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that. If I'm right it means I could have a nasty surprise for the next one of them who tries it on me.

Yep, just be aware of them using an aerial after they've grabbed the ledge because if they lag with any aerial on the ground, the BSL(lol it's called 3rd jump recovery glitch or something like that but BSL sounds much better) is "replaced" with the aerial lag.

Because of this, it's possible to land jab->Fsmash on Marth. ;O

 

[Nysyarc]

NS must be really lacking in the skill department huh?

Hey now, you'd be surprised. Zhao was voted the best Luigi in Canada, and I'm sure Billy would hold his own at any major US tourney. Others among us simply choose to stick to our mains since we do have such a small community and we'd rather have fun than ruin the experience for all the other players by all going MK.

You'll see our skillz once we get those vids uploaded from the last tourney, I'll be putting some up of me vs. Billy and Raziek for critique.

Yep, just be aware of them using an aerial after they've grabbed the ledge because if they lag with any aerial on the ground, the BSL(lol it's called 3rd jump recovery glitch or something like that but BSL sounds much better) is "replaced" with the aerial lag.

Because of this, it's possible to land jab->Fsmash on Marth. ;O

Cool, thanks for clarifying, that's definitely good to know.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Let me see if I got this BSL stuff down. A character uses Up B to try and recover, but is hit and lands on stage. Compared to when not using Up B, there is lag when landing, allowing for us Ikes to land F smash. amirite?

 

[-RedX-]

I'll try to explain it.
When certain characters use their recovery and grab the ledge without landing on anything, they have the BSL trigger on them. The next time they land onstage without doing an aerial to replace the BSL, they will lag upon landing. The amount of lag the BSL gives depends on the characters recovery.

 

[zhao_guang]

I thought Zhao quit. ;O

I was inactive for a few months, then made the terrible mistake of going into a fairly big tourny with little practice beforehand...hence my terrible placings xD

I don't think it's fair to say NS lacks in the skill department just because of our PR. We definitely aren't the greatest, but we do have some solid players. Saying that kind of takes away from Nyke's accomplishments too. He's a very good Ike player who's earned his spot on the PR, and it definitely wasn't easy.

We're very diverse in skills with various characters, but we do lack some experience with a few top tiers. Some people are picking up MK though, so you can tell we're taking a step in the....right direction? X^D