Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[jamlosingthegame]

Ah I see now. I guess it'll be a long time before I'm out of noob status.

 

[theeboredone]

I was inactive for a few months, then made the terrible mistake of going into a fairly big tourny with little practice beforehand...hence my terrible placings xD

I don't think it's fair to say NS lacks in the skill department just because of our PR. We definitely aren't the greatest, but we do have some solid players. Saying that kind of takes away from Nyke's accomplishments too. He's a very good Ike player who's earned his spot on the PR, and it definitely wasn't easy.

We're very diverse in skills with various characters, but we do lack some experience with a few top tiers. Some people are picking up MK though, so you can tell we're taking a step in the....right direction? X^D

If New York Shark is a very good Ike, I'm Jesus and San is God, and Mr. Doom is the Colonel from KFC.

Sorry, but I've played with New York Shark, and I've seen videos of some of these players. Not impressed. Maybe if they do come down to the states and prove themselves, I'll change my mind.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm Jesus

No u. I would get that title. You could be Holy Ghost though.

 

[theeboredone]

Yea, I am more of a stalker ghost than a guy with a long beard. Good call Niddo.

 

[Nysyarc]

If New York Shark is a very good Ike, I'm Jesus and San is God, and Mr. Doom is the Colonel from KFC.

Sorry, but I've played with New York Shark, and I've seen videos of some of these players. Not impressed. Maybe if they do come down to the states and prove themselves, I'll change my mind.

Lol, we haven't played since that LT tourney try-out thing and that was months ago over Wi-Fi, I've improved a ton since then. Also, the only videos I've uploaded of myself to date have been very old, from summer and autumn of last year. But I'd just like to say that none of us here in NS need your approval or the approval of anyone in the U.S. to know we're good players, and we don't need to go to the U.S. to 'prove' anything.

Although we will, for Apex.

Anyways I can't really get angry at you about this cause I know your style, but if anyone with less of a reputation had the balls to directly insult my smash scene like that, you wouldn't hear the end of me. No hard feelings dude, I understand your point of view.

 

[Mr. Doom]

You guys are ridiculous at times.
I didn't care if Bored had a status or not. He called me Doom, and I gave it to him, literally.

Anyway, here's a video about BSL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8WB3_zZYAw

 

[Nysyarc]

Anyway, here's a video about BSL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8WB3_zZYAw

Wow you did that up fast, and yah that was very helpful. So it looks like when you're landing during the use of a different B move (sideB, downB and neutralB) the BSL remains active for the next time you land normally. But landing during the use of a standard aerial attack cancels out the BSL. Is that right?

 

[YagamiLight]

Speaking of that LT tourney try out thing, that was super fun, haha.

We should do something like that again! Or we could have some sort of continuous ongoing Ike ditto tournament. Just because.

 

[Nysyarc]

Speaking of that LT tourney try out thing, that was super fun, haha.

We should do something like that again! Or we could have some sort of continuous ongoing Ike ditto tournament. Just because.

Our own Ike boards WiFi ditto power rankings? Updated seasonally? Just a thought to elaborate, I'm certainly not against the idea of doing it again, it was fun. Plus the xat we used is still there, lol.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Don't remind me of that tournament, AKA "How many times can Niddo suicide while playing wifi?" ;_;

Sadly, I would probably join another one. >_<

 

[Kirk]

Can I be Tonto?

 

[YagamiLight]

Our own Ike boards WiFi ditto power rankings? Updated seasonally? Just a thought to elaborate, I'm certainly not against the idea of doing it again, it was fun. Plus the xat we used is still there, lol.

I thought the xat was a really solid 'bonding' opportunity for the board and it sort of "livened" up the board.

But yes, a seasonal power rankings list would be quite fun! It could just be a thing where whoever is free just signs up, a bracket is made and the top 4 are recorded every time. Interval could be biweekly or something of that nature! How's that sound?

Don't remind me of that tournament, AKA "How many times can Niddo suicide while playing wifi?" ;_;

Sadly, I would probably join another one. >_<

I remember when you CPed Port Town against me in hopes of me suiciding like I did against Kimchi and you suicided more than I did, haha.

We'll try that again next time.

 

[Nysyarc]

But yes, a seasonal power rankings list would be quite fun! It could just be a thing where whoever is free just signs up, a bracket is made and the top 4 are recorded every time. Interval could be biweekly or something of that nature! How's that sound?

Sounds great to me, just so long as it's like, opposite bi-weeklies to my local bi-weekly events... I mean assuming we'll want to be doing these on a Saturday, but Friday evenings or even Sunday during the afternoon are less likely to have other things going on for people.

I'm actually getting kind of hyped, I want to go online and play someone in dittos now, even though I'm hella tired. Should we make a thread for this?

 

[YagamiLight]

Sounds great to me, just so long as it's like, opposite bi-weeklies to my local bi-weekly events... I mean assuming we'll want to be doing these on a Saturday, but Friday evenings or even Sunday during the afternoon are less likely to have other things going on for people.

I'm actually getting kind of hyped, I want to go online and play someone in dittos now, even though I'm hella tired. Should we make a thread for this?

Well, whatever time frame seems to suit you will do nicely enough! I have this feeling that you can make this sound a lot better than I can (and you seem to have the details planned in your head as well, haha) so if would like, please feel free to make the thread.

I'm hyped for Ike dittos too, now, haha. Can't wait to go home tomorrow and possibly play some.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, whatever time frame seems to suit you will do nicely enough! I have this feeling that you can make this sound a lot better than I can (and you seem to have the details planned in your head as well, haha) so if would like, please feel free to make the thread.

I'm hyped for Ike dittos too, now, haha. Can't wait to go home tomorrow and possibly play some.

Awesome, I'll get right on it! I think the first thing I'll do with the thread though is just take a quick vote from anyone who would want to participate as to the best time/day of the week to do it. It may end up that the most universally favorable time isn't good for some people, which would suck, but maybe it'll work out.

I'll make the thread look amazing, don't you worry, lol.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Nooo, don't start without me! I have been without my Wiimote for over a month now-- I need to drive like an hour and back to a friend's place so I can get it sometime.

Spoiler

Edit: MLG Dallas.

 

[WingBr]

Anything new in Ike's metagame in the past 2 months? Last time I was here I think there was something about a new way to jab cancel, is that true? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Oh, and what happened to the match-up thread Guile was running, no new discussions?

 

[Nysyarc]

Okay everyone, the new thread is up for what will hopefully become a nice tradition here. There are a few things I need you guys to vote on which I go over quickly in the post below the OP. The more people who vote, the better, so please do!

Also, these:

<-|-----

... are supposed to be swords. Deal with it.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

I'm mainly looking for the following, and we can all discuss.

Kill priority:

Which is Safer:

How often used:

Start up / End Lag:

Overall:

Basically, you all give your thoughts in each way of spiking in the options above.

 

[Ussi]

I'm mainly looking for the following, and we can all discuss.

Kill priority: dtilt, dair, aether, eruption

Which is Safer: aether (ledge however miss ledge and you die), dair, dtilt, eruption

How often used: aether, dair, dtilt, eruption

Start up / End Lag: a lot... eruption kills you in lag :D

Overall: Aether 1st, dair 2nd, dtilt 3rd Eruption 10th

Basically, you all give your thoughts in each way of spiking in the options above.

my thoughts, most of my spikes are either walk of dairs or reverse aethers to the ledge

 

[Mr. Doom]

Wow you did that up fast, and yah that was very helpful. So it looks like when you're landing during the use of a different B move (sideB, downB and neutralB) the BSL remains active for the next time you land normally. But landing during the use of a standard aerial attack cancels out the BSL. Is that right?

You are 100% correct. I failed to mention that if you faceplant or pratfall onto the ground, or if snake d-throws you, then the BSL will remain active. It's a good thing that Ike is not affected by this.

Moral of the story: abuse BSL on characters who are susceptible to it.

Anything new in Ike's metagame in the past 2 months? Last time I was here I think there was something about a new way to jab cancel, is that true? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Oh, and what happened to the match-up thread Guile was running, no new discussions?

Three words: "needs more jab." Also, the match-up thread Guile was running sort of...died off... But then the match-up ratio topic started by Niddo spurred to life.

my thoughts, most of my spikes are either walk of dairs or reverse aethers to the ledge

I don't know if you guys already know this or if it was discussed long ago, but you can aether onto the ledge only five times. After that, you must get back onto the stage before trying to attempt to aether onto the ledge again, or else you'll just fall right through the ledge. It's kind of like the characters who have tether recoveries, only they can do it no more than three times before getting back on stage.
For some reason I think I mentioned this sometime before on these boards... Déjà vu?

 

[Iofsauron]

Hey sorry guys, I haven't been on in a few days, any1 know if the video of san and the olimar at mlg was recorded?

 

[Heartstring]

Hey sorry guys, I haven't been on in a few days, any1 know if the video of san and the olimar at mlg was recorded?

don;t think any of them were, the only reason san vs ally was is because some guy had a camcorder

 

[Iofsauron]

don;t think any of them were, the only reason san vs ally was is because some guy had a camcorder

Awww man maybe I can find that video though

 

[Teh Brettster]

@ Mr Doom and the 5 Aethers: I figured that was just something we all knew, but never talked about. Because it pretty much doesn't happen.
Only person I've actually seen do it in a game is M2K, LOL.

 

[Nysyarc]

Dair, Dtilt and Aether are Ike's only practical spike moves; I won't include Eruption.

Kill priority: Dtilt, Dair, Aether

Which is Safer: Aether, Dair, Dtilt

How often used: Dair, Aether, Dtilt

Start up / End Lag:

Dair - Spikes on frames 16-17, IASA frame 55 in the air.
Dtilt - Spikes on frames 16-18, IASA frame 55.
Aether - Spikes on frames 46-57 and 64-73, no landing lag if the ledge is grabbed.

Overall: Dair, Aether, Dtilt

Dair is just a better, more reliable spiking move than Aether overall. There are only a few characters that Aether is more practical for, including DK. Dtilt lacks security after use and is extremely situational since it won't work if someone sweet-spots the ledge, and it can't be used off-stage like Dair.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hey Nys, I don't suppose it has been long enough to update the MU ratios, has it? Not everyone has posted theirs yet that should, but I believe most have.

 

[-Smash King-93]

ugh i havent been here in awhile..and you guys covered alot alot useful infomation that i had absolutely no clue about :/ especially the BSL thing lol. i need to start coming here more often cuz lord knows AiB's discussion of ike is pretty much dead, nobody even posts in the forums no more. all you'll see now is just ******* blogs that nobody shouldnt even care about.

 

[Nysyarc]

Hey Nys, I don't suppose it has been long enough to update the MU ratios, has it? Not everyone has posted theirs yet that should, but I believe most have.

Yah, I've been adding the new info to the spreadsheet I have (I'm so freaking glad I saved that spreadsheet, lol). I'll post an update in a sec, but yah there's still a few people who could give new input. It doesn't really matter though, I can just leave their original input unchanged.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

:D Yays, thank you.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Did anyone ever encounter an instance where eruption DID spike an opponent (and i don't mean stage spike) ? I remember reading about eruption having a weak spike in the guide thread bit couldn't really visualize it.

Also I just wanna make sure, is opponent shielding ike's rear part of up-smash safe for ike? I don't really remember anyone punishing me after they shielded it.

 

[Nysyarc]

:D Yays, thank you.

Okay, it's all ready, you can just quote my post and replace it in the OP.

Did anyone ever encounter an instance where eruption DID spike an opponent (and i don't mean stage spike) ? I remember reading about eruption having a weak spike in the guide thread bit couldn't really visualize it.

Yah the very bottom part of the hitbox is a spike if used in the air, but it's weaker than an Aetherspike and very dangerous to do off-stage, so I don't think anyone has ever actually KO'd someone with an Eruption spike... maybe with the exception of training mode or something.

Also I just wanna make sure, is opponent shielding ike's rear part of up-smash safe for ike? I don't really remember anyone punishing me after they shielded it.

It depends on the character obviously. If they don't PS or spot-dodge it, then it's mostly safe against a lot of characters. There are a few reasons for this: it does have very early IASA frames, especially when compared to Ike's other smashes, and it will push the opponent back in their shield quite a ways. Additionally, a lot of players are used to the lag after Ike's Fsmash and will assume that Usmash has similar ending lag (even good players make this mistake in the heat of a match).

This means that they will sometimes try to punish Usmash with a laggy move of their own, or they will casually stroll up to punish instead of dashing, often allowing you to Jab them before they can actually hit you. An even better way to use it is when the opponent is near the stage's edge or on a platform above you, since the shield push will knock them off the ledge/side of the platform, making it even more difficult for them to punish you.

 

[san.]

About upsmash, do you guys recommend just timing a reverse upsmash when they get close or whipping it out, or just letting it charge so it'll be much harder to punish?

Also, is charged regular upsmash safe on shield? If so, how much do you think we can charge it?

 

[Heartstring]

It depends on the character obviously. If they don't PS or spot-dodge it, then it's mostly safe against a lot of characters. There are a few reasons for this: it does have very early IASA frames, especially when compared to Ike's other smashes, and it will push the opponent back in their shield quite a ways. Additionally, a lot of players are used to the lag after Ike's Fsmash and will assume that Usmash has similar ending lag (even good players make this mistake in the heat of a match)

oh, i didtn realise the iasa frames this had, that migth help my game out a bit, i do like my hyphen smash after all XP
also, how do i do that thnig where you do a hyphen smash facing backwards? cause the back end has longer range an all, how are you supposed to do it?

 

[-RedX-]

Did anyone ever encounter an instance where eruption DID spike an opponent (and i don't mean stage spike) ? I remember reading about eruption having a weak spike in the guide thread bit couldn't really visualize it.

Yah the very bottom part of the hitbox is a spike if used in the air, but it's weaker than an Aetherspike and very dangerous to do off-stage, so I don't think anyone has ever actually KO'd someone with an Eruption spike... maybe with the exception of training mode or something.

That part of Eruption only hits like that if the opponent is grounded.
If in the air, it's just a normal Eruption. So basically, it'll never spike someone down.

Eruption doesn't spike people airborne. >.> Not possible to kill someone downward.

About upsmash, do you guys recommend just timing a reverse upsmash when they get close or whipping it out, or just letting it charge so it'll be much harder to punish?

Also, is charged regular upsmash safe on shield? If so, how much do you think we can charge it?

I think it would depend on how good a character's dash+run speed is. If they have bad speed, I think a spaced Usmash in general would be safe. lol

 

[Ussi]

front side usmash gets punished by DK's fsmash, backside doesn't, backside is much safer but takes longer to hit with.


We should be using usmash to avoid aerials aimed at our head

 

[Nysyarc]

About upsmash, do you guys recommend just timing a reverse upsmash when they get close or whipping it out, or just letting it charge so it'll be much harder to punish?

Also, is charged regular upsmash safe on shield? If so, how much do you think we can charge it?

I like to bait an approach and then slide an Usmash backwards, charging it as necessary depending on how they approach. I find it works amazingly well on MKs who are off-stage and like to approach with a glide attack/tornado/drill rush. It's relatively safe because you'll be hitting with the back end, and you can charge it as long as you see fit. I much prefer hitting with the back than the first part, for a lot of reasons.

As for how long to charge it... it depends on how your opponent is approaching. Obviously if they're approaching with an attack that doesn't have good IASA frames or can't be retreated, just release it as soon as they're in your range. If they just empty-jump, they'll likely air-dodge, so you can punish that. If they dash up and shield, it can't hurt to keep charging it and just try to make them crack. You obviously want them to spot-dodge so you can punish them.

The only risk you run by charging it fully is that they could time a spot-dodge then, allowing them to easily punish you, but you could release the Usmash slightly early to catch their shield once it's almost fully charged, making it very safe afterwards.

oh, i didtn realise the iasa frames this had, that migth help my game out a bit, i do like my hyphen smash after all XP
also, how do i do that thnig where you do a hyphen smash facing backwards? cause the back end has longer range an all, how are you supposed to do it?

Do you mean a true pivot to an Usmash? If you want to slide an Usmash forwards but turn it around so the your basically approaching with a reversed Usmash, then you'll need to do a true pivot, or take some extra time to dash, pivot and then Usmash. Unfortunately unless you're on ice, there's no way to slide backwards and Usmash.

 

[Rykoshet]

I almost never aim to hit with the front end of up smash, I'd rather pivot up smash or just shield and turn around, with its IASA and the ridiculously late hitbox if they happen to land on the back end of inside of you it's just so much better. And yes you can slide into the back end of up smash and you don't need to true pivot to approach with the back end of up smash, azen was doing that **** since before american launch, up smash loses some speed in comparison to the front end but unless you plan on scooping someone from just under the lip at the end of a stage then you're way better off hitting with the back end.

Also please tell me that the fast slow/fall mechanics of smash and tilt sticks being reversed if you hold down on the analog isn't considered a new concept. Kirk had used it a number of times to walk off dair without having to change his controls.

 

[Heartstring]

Do you mean a true pivot to an Usmash? If you want to slide an Usmash forwards but turn it around so the your basically approaching with a reversed Usmash, then you'll need to do a true pivot, or take some extra time to dash, pivot and then Usmash. Unfortunately unless you're on ice, there's no way to slide backwards and Usmash.

yeahyeah, that how do i do a true pivot? although i think i can already tell i'll have a ton of trouble executing it under pressure

 

[Nysyarc]

yeahyeah, that how do i do a true pivot? although i think i can already tell i'll have a ton of trouble executing it under pressure

Yah it'd be easier to just dash forward slightly, turn and Usmash. Plus I've never seen Ike's true pivot but I don't imagine he gets much distance out of it at all.