~ Zelda Q & A / FAQs / Directory ~

[sniperworm]

Partners for Zelda in doubles has been discussed in the Zelda Community Center (go look for the links in the OP).

If you feel that the subject needs more discussion or a thread of its own, feel free to make a new thread.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I have a number of questions.

1) Most of you probably know that Lylat cruise moves from side to side in diagonal slants. I've noticed when I'm on that stage with Zelda, that sometimes Din's acidentally rams into the stage floor. Does anyone think that this could be manipulated into a little advantage? Or am I over thinking this a little?

2) Zelda's F-tilt goes in three different angles. Is there any difference in damage/knockback?

3) I read somewhere here that Transform replenishes the decay that happens on most moves (Like Din's Fire for example). Is that true?

4) Does anyone know what the minimum damage needed to kill with U-smash and F-smash? I've noticed that sometimes I only hit with the last few hits of the two smash's and it actually takes a while to kill with them. I'm sounding somewhat vague, I know.


:D

 

[MrEh]

I have a number of questions.

1) Most of you probably know that Lylat cruise moves from side to side in diagonal slants. I've noticed when I'm on that stage with Zelda, that sometimes Din's acidentally rams into the stage floor. Does anyone think that this could be manipulated into a little advantage? Or am I over thinking this a little?

2) Zelda's F-tilt goes in three different angles. Is there any difference in damage/knockback?

3) I read somewhere here that Transform replenishes the decay that happens on most moves (Like Din's Fire for example). Is that true?

4) Does anyone know what the minimum damage needed to kill with U-smash and F-smash? I've noticed that sometimes I only hit with the last few hits of the two smash's and it actually takes a while to kill with them. I'm sounding somewhat vague, I know.


:D

1. No idea

2. There is a minor difference in knockback and damage. It's nothing worth noting though.

3. Yes.

4. Usmash kills midweights at about 120% fresh iirc.

 

[sniperworm]

I have a number of questions.

1) Most of you probably know that Lylat cruise moves from side to side in diagonal slants. I've noticed when I'm on that stage with Zelda, that sometimes Din's acidentally rams into the stage floor. Does anyone think that this could be manipulated into a little advantage? Or am I over thinking this a little?

2) Zelda's F-tilt goes in three different angles. Is there any difference in damage/knockback?

3) I read somewhere here that Transform replenishes the decay that happens on most moves (Like Din's Fire for example). Is that true?

4) Does anyone know what the minimum damage needed to kill with U-smash and F-smash? I've noticed that sometimes I only hit with the last few hits of the two smash's and it actually takes a while to kill with them. I'm sounding somewhat vague, I know.


:D

MrEh already covered most of these, but I can help with number 1.

Forced explosions for Din's (aka having Din's Fire explode because it hit an obstacle) are great for when you're challenging other characters with long range projectiles. I suppose I'll have to explain this a bit more in detail though.

When you get hit while using Din's Fire, you can no longer control it (it just keeps traveling in the direction you were making it travel until it reaches it's maximum range and then it explodes). Usually, that means that if someone hits you while you're using Din's Fire, they will not get hit by it. However, if you can change it's direction before you get hit so that it'll run into the stage near them, the Din's will travel into the stage after you got hit and blow up (possibly hitting them).

Therefore, the slanting stage could help this if it allows you to ram Din's into it when you otherwise couldn't (or if it slants so that Din's goes into it). Otherwise, no, it doesn't help Din's Fire any more than normal.

 

[goodkid]

Killing % is related to the opponents DI, weight, stage... many factors. It also depends if you stale her smashes. Id say about 110-120 is the appropriate % to go for a kill w/ upsmash. F-smash is around 120-140 % depending on the above factors. Up-tilt is about the same for up-smash so consider that, but lightning kick is always better if you can land it. KOs around 90-110.

 

[DarkThundah]

Question: do the zelda boards has a 2v2 section? If not we should make one, and by we I mean not me.

Thanks a lot

~ and yes I looked b4 posting.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

As far as I know, we don´t have an actual thread for that per se, but the Zelda community center has a discussion about her teammates and ranked them. The information there is a little old, but you can look it up here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206557

If you keep scrolling down you´ll find "Zelda top 5´s" where the mostly used teammates for her are listed. Even further down are the links for the discussions about them.

 

[DarkThundah]

Awesome, thanks for the info bro

 

[Half-Split Soul]

No problem, glad to be of service.

You also might be onto something with the idea of teambattle thread: it hasn´t gotten much discussion around here. Maybe I should start one..

 

[Kataefi]

If you could that would be great! What we need is a doubles partner thread for teams and a stage discussion thread so we can start to analyse stage counterpicks in more detail etc etc...

 

[Half-Split Soul]

OK, I´ll be starting one later today (or tomorrow at latest) because I´m a little busy right now.

 

[Kataefi]

Cool! And if you need any help with the OP (like if you're busy or summin) then PM me what you want done and I'll help you along with it.

 

[CRASHiC]

Why so straight?
You guys have the potential to play gay as hell, especially on Final Destination.
Side B till they get to close, then up b to side of stage
Side b again back to center of stage.

Its like Falco, but with knock back.

 

[Brinzy]

Eh... Sakurai figured this strategy out and made both moves pretty laggy in general for us to abuse this. I'll give it a try though to see how things turn out, but only for like a momentary thing.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Why so straight?

Because just camping is so BBOOOOORRRRRIIIINNNGGGG!

Also, it just doesn´t work in the long run. Din is easy to dodge or block if it´s just thrown out without plans or surprise element and Farore´s wind isn´t fast enough to be used for that.

Sometimes and in small amount that stategy is good though =)

 

[MrEh]

Din's is so bad that the only practical use for it is to force approaches. If you're opponent is getting hit by Din's a lot during a match, then he either does not know how to shield, or you are playing wifi. (or your opponent is dumb, like me)


The only other use for Din's is to mock offstage opponents.

 

[CRASHiC]

Because of Fire's large, deceptive hitbox, you can time and mind game the fire, predicting when they will air doge, and then punish in front or behind them. This would not work on wario of course.

For the wind, use d tilt, side step, or jump away, then use up b to go half way across stage.

 

[GodAtHand]

^ Din's is not as spammable as you think it is, nor as good, but it still has its uses. Mostly I like to use it to bait air dodges and to keep applying pressure after a successful combo. Of course if someone does not have a projectile you can try to bait them into approaching... etc. etc.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

1) Why is Oli so bad for Zelda? I know the match up sucks I just don't play Zelda enough(she's mostly for fun in friendlies and stuff for me) to know why.

B) How can I make it so my Zelda doesn't afraid of anything? I need her to be more awesome and cool.

 

[sniperworm]

1) Why is Oli so bad for Zelda? I know the match up sucks I just don't play Zelda enough(she's mostly for fun in friendlies and stuff for me) to know why.

B) How can I make it so my Zelda doesn't afraid of anything? I need her to be more awesome and cool.

1) Olimar is better at camping and Zelda is poor at approaching. Olimar outranges Zelda and can shield grab her out of pretty much anything. Olimar is small so it's harder to sweetspot aerials and it's easier for him to escape Fsmash and Usmash. Plus Olimar has no problems killing Zelda due to her light weight. The only thing Zelda really has on Olimar is Dsmash, which can kill him at very low percents if you catch him with one near the edge.

B) The only way to make Zelda better is to play better. There aren't any real tricks to it since she's pretty straightforward.

 

[MrEh]

Because of Fire's large, deceptive hitbox, you can time and mind game the fire, predicting when they will air doge, and then punish in front or behind them. This would not work on wario of course.

This dosn't work on anyone. Unless they're dumb or it's wifi. lol

There aren't any real tricks to it since she's pretty straightforward.

Limited is more like it. Dedede is straightworward. Zelda is just bad. XD

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Is Zelda's dash attack any good? It seems to be very unreliable.

 

[GodAtHand]

I love Zelda's dash attack. It has a sweetspot that does more damage and sends the opponent upwards, or the regular hitbox sends them straight away from you which can lead to good follow ups (Dash attack to Dair spike for one). BUT if its blocked she is extremely open so be careful. Mix it up with grabs and maybe some SH attacks and fakes and you should be alright.

New question: Whats the best way to escape Falco's Down grab chain at low percents?

 

[sniperworm]

New question: Whats the best way to escape Falco's Down grab chain at low percents?

Controller cancel.

But if you want to try something legal, I'd go for neutral B and hope to catch him with the invincibility frames (you can sometimes get them after a Dair or jab). That or you could DI away and try for a Fair if Falco is just Dthrowing you over and over.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Maybe you can tech it?

Then follow up with either spot dodge or down smash.

 

[sniperworm]

Maybe you can tech it?

Then follow up with either spot dodge or down smash.

You need to bounce off the ground to tech right? I'm just asking because I don't bounce off the ground when Falco Dairs me during the Dthrow followups (which is why I didn't mention teching).

 

[Half-Split Soul]

You need to bounce off the ground to tech right?

In order for an attack to be techable it must slam a character to the ground. IIRC Falco´s dair can be teched at high percents but not low, because then it only kind of pushes enemies down.

Also, the definition of "getting slammed to ground" is pretty flexible in Brawl. Better way to think of it is to look whether the character is in his tumbling animation. If they´re only send to some direction in somewhat upright position (think of DDD´s D-throw) they can´t tech an attack.

 

[RoyalBlood]

In melee you need to hit the floor to tech, so given Falco's D-throw is the same from melee then go ahead & tech.

 

[-Tempest-]

In order for an attack to be techable it must slam a character to the ground. IIRC Falco´s dair can be teched at high percents but not low, because then it only kind of pushes enemies down.

Also, the definition of "getting slammed to ground" is pretty flexible in Brawl. Better way to think of it is to look whether the character is in his tumbling animation. If they´re only send to some direction in somewhat upright position (think of DDD´s D-throw) they can´t tech an attack.

Actually, in regards to DDD's Dthrow, I'm pretty sure you can tech right after he sits on you. This is considered slamming into the stage. I'll run some tests tonight, but when I played on Monday, I managed to tech his Dthrow.

 

[Kataefi]

Actually, in regards to DDD's Dthrow, I'm pretty sure you can tech right after he sits on you. This is considered slamming into the stage. I'll run some tests tonight, but when I played on Monday, I managed to tech his Dthrow.

You're gonna need to be 100% sure of your tests as well, because.... if this isn't character specific he loses that infamous chaingrab and plummets waaaaaay down in viability.

This might, however, be character specific - or zelda specific for that matter. Falco's dthrow is interesting, but I know very little about its mechanics - if you DI down is it techable? Or could there possibly be a tech window where the laser shoot you to the ground? I'm still sceptical...

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I run some very brief (read: unreliable) tests today and highly doubt that DDD´s downthrow can be teched halfway through. I also think it would have been figured out already. My example was somewhat bad though, since Zelda can actually tech after the throw unlike many other characters due to her light weight.

Also, I know this is an old question, but:

Or if the hitbox (of downsmash) is behind her and someone attacks her front then will she clank or get hit?

At least it can work other way around: if she´s facing away from the enemy and she´s attacked from behind, her first kick can clank. This can work against Luigi´s F-smash for example.

 

[KayLo!]

Quick question. (Yes, I was too lazy to search for the answer.)

What's the proper way to momentum cancel with Zelda? IIRC, bair is her fastest aerial, so I know to fastfall a bair to regain momentum control..... but what's her move to actually brake her momentum after the bair? Or does she not have one?

Thanks in advance.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Zelda does not have a momentum-braking move. FW has the greatest effect on momentum IIRC, but none of her specials completely stop movement. FW is risky when used to slow a hard hit tho, better to DI like everyone else lol aka fastfall aerial, jump, recover

 

[KayLo!]

That sucks. I guess I'll just keep doing what I've been doing, then, lol.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

lol if u want momentum braking, play DK/G&W/Yoshi/Wario, no one else has anything like that

G&W has the best one, his bucket, which allows movement afterward

Wario's is also very good, his bike, which is only kinda bad cuz in braking situations you have to use it so far out sometimes it allows a gimp afterwards but otherwise very good

DK's is his up+b, leave him helpless afterwards but the DKs that do use it know to come back to the stage so they don't fall to their deaths. With this momentum braking he survives way longer than even Bowser, making him the hardest character in the game to score an outright kill on. Gimping is another story lol

Yoshi's is his egg roll, pretty useless as he is helpless afterwards and can't even use it to move in the air like DK can

if i missed any i'm sorry lol

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I think Yoshi´s egg roll shouldn´t even be mentioned. It doesn´t give him any recovery or protection at all and leaves him helpless, so it should never be used.

Also, sometimes DK can´t move in the air with his Up-b after momentum canceling because of the inertia.

 

[KayLo!]

lol if u want momentum braking, play DK/G&W/Yoshi/Wario, no one else has anything like that

G&W has the best one, his bucket, which allows movement afterward

Wario's is also very good, his bike, which is only kinda bad cuz in braking situations you have to use it so far out sometimes it allows a gimp afterwards but otherwise very good

DK's is his up+b, leave him helpless afterwards but the DKs that do use it know to come back to the stage so they don't fall to their deaths. With this momentum braking he survives way longer than even Bowser, making him the hardest character in the game to score an outright kill on. Gimping is another story lol

Yoshi's is his egg roll, pretty useless as he is helpless afterwards and can't even use it to move in the air like DK can

if i missed any i'm sorry lol

*Points to her Pika icon*

Pikachu has one of the best momentum canceling moves in the game with Skull Bash. He's pretty light, but I usually survive until at least ~150%, and my DI is mediocre at best. Better Pikas frequently live longer than that.

I wasn't expecting Zelda to have anything similar, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

 

[Chis]

What is Zelda's best method of approach?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

What is Zelda's best method of approach?

there isn't one, you just pick one based on the situation.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Is there a thread that has some Zelda combo's posted in it?
I can't find one. BTW, please don't point me to a Youtube video. xD

Also, thanks to the people answering my questions. :D