~ Zelda Q & A / FAQs / Directory ~

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#1
Q&A / FAQs / Directory

Dedicated to the most important links





Thanks to johnjoseco

Casual

Kakariko's
Get started here! Talk about anything and everything! Request wifi matches here also!

Xat Chat
Don't be shy! Come and say hi! The chat is designed for instant messaging with other players. Who knows what you might end up talking about...

Happy Mask Salesman's Happy Picture and Texture Shop
Screenshots / Stories / Textures / Texture Requests. Be sure to subscribe to this one!


Formal

???
New Zelda guide... COMING SOON!

Matchups

The current matchup thread! Find summaries in the OP of this thread!

Temple of Time: Tournament Placings / Video Critique

Post your progress in tournament here and submit those videos!


Research

Great Fairy Fountain
Have an idea? Discuss it here! This thread looks at potential setups and strategies based on frame data. The OP goes into a lot of detail about specific moves.

Initial Hitbox Bubbles
Learn about the size of Zelda's initial hitboxes here.

Ending Hitbox Bubbles
This post shows Zelda's ending hitbox bubbles particularly on a lot of her lingering moves.

Reverse Nayru's Momentum Cancelling
Learn all about momentum cancelling and how to properly do it here!

Dthrow Spike
Learn about Zelda's obscure Dthrow spike here.

Dtilt Clanking and Priority Discussion
Half-Split has definitely done his homework - this thread talks about the moves Dtilt can beat, avoid and clank with.

Farore's Wind vs Projectiles
This post looks at Farore Wind's priority against every projectile.

Autocancelling Nair
Do you know how to follow up your autocancelled Nairs? This thread shows the frightening things that can be achieved!


Archive
Lol Hi! A Guide to Sheik/Zelda
An outdated guide by the megaman himself - SinkingHigher.

Luthien's Teleportation Guide
Trouble with recovering? Want to learn teleport cancelling to speed up your Zelda? This thread is for you!

Stage Counterpicks and Bans
Learn about the art of counterpicking here. Be sure to choose the right stage for the right opponent.

Stage Control Guide
Come here to periodically talk about good and bad stages and learn some neat tricks.

Moveset discussion
Stop here to learn about Zelda's moves and their uses!

Zelda in Teams
What can Zelda + ____ really achieve? Find out here!

Zelda in Brawl+
Here is the Zelda's Brawl+ thread! Find out her changes throughout each codeset!



FAQs

Are your questions already answered?


[collapse=Click and find out:]

1. How do you SDI Zelda's Fsmash?
- Push up and away with both sticks. You cant punish Zelda after SDIing. Occasionally you pop over and behind her, setting you up for another move.

2. How do you SDI Zelda's Usmash?
- Quarter-circle SDI straight up with both sticks. Only Marth, Lucario, Pit, Ice Climbers, Ness, Lucas and Samus can reliably SDI out of Usmash. If you are caught at the tip, you can SDI to fall out on the side - works especially well if your character is small. A staled Usmash becomes harder to SDI out of.

3. How do you SDI Zelda's Nair?
- The hits of Nair stun and drag you back in. Zelda has semi-control over your character's SDI based on its trajectory. SDI in the route you think is quickest to get out. You cannot SDI if it hits you when grounded and it's being autocancelled.

4. How do you SDI Zelda's Dtilt lock?
- SDI sharply away from her with both sticks. You may trip in the process!

5. Does transforming refresh Zelda and Sheik's moveset?
- Yes!


6. Which of Zelda's moves are safe on block?
- Spaced Fsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt, Jab and Nair (behind the shield or straight up from a short hop).


7. When does Dtilt start to become most effective?
- 40-50+% for lighties. 50-60+% for middle weights. 60+% for the heavies.


8. HELP! I'm being projectile camped! What do I do?
- Powershield! Patiently weave in. Nayru's and Din's are your anti-camping mixups - use them sparely.

9. HELP! I can't land Lightning Kicks! Any tips?
- Kick where you think they'll be! Kick OoS against characters of reasonable height. Double kick from a SH and mixup crossovers.

10. OMGZZZZ Zelda SUCKZZZ I hate her so much! DinZZZ is useless!!!
-
Well!

[/collapse]
 
Joined
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#2
Ok 1st question :

It is possible to only hit with Zelda's tipper from her F-smash so you avoid the DIing out of Zelda's smashes? D:
 

Bandit

Smash Lord
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#5
I have done this several times. It works well when they think you have whiffed and the last hit gets them as they wait for it to end so they can punish.

If someone DI's the FSmash, just Fsmash the opposite way or USmash immediately. I juggled someone who DI'ed it 3 times in a row with Fsmashes before Usmashing him. It was pretty amazing though usually people get ate by the 2nd Fsmash.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
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#6
Does anyone else than me think it's cool that Zeldas sourspotted attacks has lock capabilities plus forced getup capablities if the opponent misses a tech/roll when they hit the ground? : P (hitting them in the bounce animation)
 
Joined
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1,686
#7
You´re not the only one to think it´s cool Zigma. It´s Zelda´s version of jab lock, only cooler and even harder to get to work in actual match.

I don´t quite understand Kaffei´s question, so I´ll just say that Zelda´s spotdodge is good because it´s very fast and combined with Zelda´s fast smashes works well against many moves.
 

Kataefi

*smoke machine*
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#8
I think what Kaffei meant was what are the invincibility frames on Zelda's spotdodge? and when is she vulnerable during this animation?

I find her spotdodge is wicked good compared to other characters I use. It just feels different. I get hit less when I'm Zelda and her spotdodge invincibility seems to last a relatively long time with minimal lag. I'd love to know the frame data on her spotdodge myself...

I have a question... can Zelda's airdodge autocancel? I swear she can dtilt from a landed airdodge faster than she can when she lands normally. Maybe it's just me... -.-
 
Joined
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#9
Oh. I should´ve realised he asked frame data. Stupid me.

I don´t have it myself, hopefully someone who has will post it.

About your question, I think you mean SHAD (shorthop airdodge). Don´t let the name fool you, it´s basically just buffering inputs with airdodge. Just give me a moment to find the threat...

Edit:

- SHAD'ing (an example of Input Buffering; see General Discoveries)How to Perform: During any jump, Air-Dodge late enough that you will touch the ground while still in the Air-Dodge animation. Just before you land, input any move. Originally done during a Short Hop, hence the name.
Effect: Character lands, performs move on the exact frame it becomes possible. This abuses the buffering system to do fast attacks on landing, preceded by a few invincibility frames.
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156287 [/url]
Taken from "The Comprehensive Guide to AT's, Discoveries and Glitches" threat.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
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#10
Does anyone else than me think it's cool that Zeldas sourspotted attacks has lock capabilities plus forced getup capablities if the opponent misses a tech/roll when they hit the ground? : P (hitting them in the bounce animation)
Not really. She doesn't have any attacks that can set this up where she's fast enough to actually take advantage unless you manage to knock someone down with a sourspot at a percentage that shouldn't occur in a real match. Sheik is much better at it.
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
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Achingy
#11
I think what Kaffei meant was what are the invincibility frames on Zelda's spotdodge? and when is she vulnerable during this animation?

I find her spotdodge is wicked good compared to other characters I use. It just feels different. I get hit less when I'm Zelda and her spotdodge invincibility seems to last a relatively long time with minimal lag. I'd love to know the frame data on her spotdodge myself...

I have a question... can Zelda's airdodge autocancel? I swear she can dtilt from a landed airdodge faster than she can when she lands normally. Maybe it's just me... -.-
I think so....I mean, when I SHAD, I have almost NO follow up lag at all.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
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#12
I think so....I mean, when I SHAD, I have almost NO follow up lag at all.

It's called buffering. If you perform any move, you have 8 frames (I'm too lazy to check -- timing is more important than numbers) before the move's lag ends to input any action. For example -- If you jab and 8 frames before your jab ends you input commands for down tilt, you will down tilt as soon as your jab is finished.

What you're doing is using the lag from your air dodge to buffer a down tilt. If you didn't air dodge, the space you were in when you commanded a down tilt could easily have turned into a dair.

It allows you to perform with the minimum amount of lag possible. Air dodging doesn't have landing lag, but you do get 2-4 frames from touching the ground anyway. Instead of waiting for all that lag to end, you're using that time to input your next move which will come immediately after.

You can buffer down tilts after shielding for a similar effect.
 

Kaffei

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Achingy
#13
It's called buffering. If you perform any move, you have 8 frames (I'm too lazy to check -- timing is more important than numbers) before the move's lag ends to input any action. For example -- If you jab and 8 frames before your jab ends you input commands for down tilt, you will down tilt as soon as your jab is finished.

What you're doing is using the lag from your air dodge to buffer a down tilt. If you didn't air dodge, the space you were in when you commanded a down tilt could easily have turned into a dair.

It allows you to perform with the minimum amount of lag possible. Air dodging doesn't have landing lag, but you do get 2-4 frames from touching the ground anyway. Instead of waiting for all that lag to end, you're using that time to input your next move which will come immediately after.

You can buffer down tilts after shielding for a similar effect.
Oh okay.
I have a hard time understand how these frames work, so.. o-o
 

Villi

Smash Lord
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#14
1 frame is 1/60 of a second.

I would say that a reaction speed of 15 frames is pretty decent, which would be 1/4 of a second. But reacting a bit quicker when you know exactly what needs to be done, situationally, definitely occurs.

Anyway, it's not about frames, it's about timing. Use visual cues like how far away you are from the ground to determine when it's the right time to buffer an attack or defense.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
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#16
Lol a metronome? Ionno, I'm a musician so I was just thinking about how many beats per second I can comfortably play without having to completely go auto-pilot.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
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#17
Looks good Royal Blood, we definitely needed one. Hopefully will cut down on threads such as: "How do I meteorsmash with Zelda?".

I have a question that has been on my mind recently.........do any of you transform specifically for the purpose of refreshing your moveset? Usmash is so powerful when it's not decayed that i'm almost tempted to transform around the 100% mark.

edit: Also i've recently been using fairs during my return trip to the stage to cover my recovery. With the fantastic distance Farore's covers, you can even sourspot the fair to give you that split second to teleport back. Anyone else been using some type of method to prevent edgeguarding?
 

seaN`

Shadow Link
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Mar 29, 2007
Messages
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#18
i'm done with transforming into sheik :mad: only reason y i lost to that G&W >_>

i've been doing the same thing while recovering, and if i'm close enough to the stage i sometimes use NL to semi shine them then before i use FW
 

Bandit

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So, you wanna play?
#19
When you kill vertically on most stages, if you immediately transform to sheik, then you can transform back just as your opponent is getting to you. I'm not saying this is fool proof, but if you get in the habit of doing it, then you will know when you can safely pull off a double transform.

As far as recovering, I save my second jump and use it right when my opponent should believe that I am just going to grab the ledge. This has scored me a few sweet spots when they are not expecting it, but if they shield it, you can always bring your momentum back and grab the ledge. I usually FW onto the stage unless I my opponent will not hug the ledge. You can bait people to come get your off the stage, and it allows you an easy recovery since FW actually has pretty good range.
 
Joined
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#20
More like excellent range instead of pretty good...

If opponent is a big character, Bowser for example, I usually spam Fair or Bair all the time until grabbing the ledge, simply because sweetspotting is easy and some players are too afraid to take even the sllightest chance of getting hit. Otherwise I just use Farore´s wind and fastfall to make the return less predictable.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
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#21
does anyone know how to make zelda transform into sheik faster and vice versa.. last post i had i was told that the transformation is too laggy to pull it off consistantly, i know it has something to do with moving the joystick the same direction as the circles that spin around her. can anyone help me out with this one
 

GodAtHand

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#22
Transform is completely dependent on how fast your Wii and Brawl disc can load the Sheik or Zelda file. There is no way to make it faster unless you have another Zelda or Sheik in the match thus having the character file already loaded.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
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#23
I have to ask you guys.... Snake's **** airdodge, can he airdodge -> Utilt while IN your Usmash?

Sometimes it seems he can.. and it's very annoying xP
 

Villi

Smash Lord
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#24
As long as he spaces to be out of up smash's range but in up tilt's disjointed range, I'd guess it's possible?

Transforming to Sheik just to go back to Zelda is such a hassle. If you want fresh moves as Zelda, learn to play as Sheik at the beginning of a match. :3 I find that the beginning of a stock generally isn't when I worry about my moves being fresh. If you really need to be Zelda with fresh moves at the end of a stock, use a high knockback move, transform to Sheik then land a dsmash or dash attack/forward throw combo and transform back.

The only character I start off as Zelda on but switch to Sheik is Falco to avoid his chain grab because fast approaches and tilt lockage is too good to pass up.
 

#HBC | Scary

Hype Incarnate
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#25
I have a simple question, but it angers me since I cannot get it consistently. How do you consistently angle Ftilt? I want to incorporate it more since I just read up on how an Up-angled Ftilt can beat out the turtle.
 

-Mars-

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#26
I have a simple question, but it angers me since I cannot get it consistently. How do you consistently angle Ftilt? I want to incorporate it more since I just read up on how an Up-angled Ftilt can beat out the turtle.
Calm down, lol. All you have to do is walk a little more and don't jerk your control stick as much.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
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#28
Okie dokie, so I would hold the tilt on the joystick before the attack comes out? Just making sure lol.
Preferably, in the heat of battle attempting to angle an ftilt can result in you fsmashing if your adrenaline is all up lol. Whenever I angle my ftilt, I pre-plan the move so i'm already tilting in the direction. If your using it in-the-heat-of-the-moment, you'll just have to learn to calm down every now and again......I know it's hard but get used to it. Walking is the new wavedash in Brawl.
 

Scott!

Smash Lord
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#30
Just curious, since I don't really play with Sheik at all, just Zelda, but I still wonder. With Transform, does transforming in a battle make it faster next time? I know it's so slow because the other character isn't preloaded, but do they stay loaded if you transform? Or do they have to be reloaded each time?
 

Villi

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#31
No, they don't stay loaded if you transform.

Tilting your joystick up or down and hitting your c-stick angled diagonal up or down, respective, will cause an angled forward tilt.
 

Kataefi

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#34
Can I make some requests?
Is it possible for anyone to test Zelda's angled Ftilts against the cast's aerials and SH approaches. Seriously, if it can challenge GnW bair, I think it has way more priority and range than what we give credit for. I would test it but my wii's on the other side of the country >.>

Also, I'm really keen on the dtilt lock. Can anyone find out how this does against the entire cast and get on-the-dot percentages for when this works and when they can start escaping?

I think that'd really help Zelda's metagame. Right now, we vaguely know these things, though nothing seems concrete to me. I usually just guestimate everything when I talk about locks and percentages and for once I want to be 100% confident.

Also... I reckon we need some frame data, like frames for her attacks, the sheild hitstun they cause, stuff about her autocancelled nair (does it really autocancel? - because it seems there's a teeny tiny bit of lag). I think shield hitstun is important because it could mean that we can get in free hits from time to time if the testing is really positive!

Also... stuff like mini combos. Like how at 0% ftilt could lead into usmash etc.... I think Zelda has a lot of 2+ semi-combos and if we knew them and what to do at the right enemy percentages then it'd make damage racking a lot easier.

This is how Peach's metagame has evolved so far, because they've really looked into all her moves with solid frame data and hitstun etc...

Make my christmas come true guys!!! - free presents for whoever do these =)=)=)=)=)=)
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
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#35
Can I make some requests?
Phew, you really make me work for her metagame, you know?

So, I started the tests today, and they take massive amount of time to be accurate, but I managed to test Zelda´s D-tilt lock and F-tilt vs. aerials of the first row of characters. I´ll post the results into their own threat tomorrow with the new data I´ll have by then because it´s so late now and I´m going to sleep. But the info will be here tomorrow.

Oh, I also tested the Nair autocancel. It does autocancel after the last hitbox has come out. Before that it has very little landing lag, but still some. Interestingly, the same applies into every other aerial of Zelda expect Uair: they all can be autocanceled by landing on the ground after their hitbox has come out and Zelda is in her cooldown lag. Uair doesn´t autocancel.
 

lil cj

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
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#36
I have a question(s)...
Is it easier to do a lightning kick at the peak of Zelda's jump or while shes falling?
And how can u hit very short characters(especially Kirby,Olimar, MK) with lightning kick??
Its very hard to hit them...
I can get G&W and Pika but I can never get a lightning kick on those three.
 

GodAtHand

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
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Lawrence, MA
#39
I know that one of the more popular stages to counterpick as Zelda is Luigi's Mansion. I don't fully understand why...

Din's goes through pillars, UpAir hits the next highest floor, And upsmash can set them up for a Dsmash right away.

But is there anything that makes in especially useful to Zelda besides what I stated? I am hoping to learn more from this stage.
 
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