~ Zelda Q & A / FAQs / Directory ~

[Half-Split Soul]

Use Nayru´s love against grenades.

Wait, no, that´s not right. NEVER use NL against grenades.

 

[KayLo!]

NL sucks vs. grenades.

@Aerodrome, if the Snakes you play run into fully charged fsmashes...... well. Play better Snakes. x.o

 

[MrEh]

There's no reason for Snake to run into fully charged Fsmashes, when he can just Ftilt you out of nearly everything you do.

Grim reality right there.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Snake's Ftilt has comparable range to our Fsmash, is much harder to DI out of, comes out much quicker, does more damage and is harder to punish.... oh and it has a lot more priority.

Isn't that grand?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

It´s Sakurai´s understanding of balance I guess. Like with MK.

 

[Brinzy]

It may be a no-brainer, but I bet if Snake's hitboxes on his ftilt and utilt encased just his body (and only for parts of his body that actually involve the attack) and not a ****ing platform, he would just be "tough" rather than "ridiculous." I'm sure everyone has their woes with this, but really, those are the main two things I hate about Snake. I can deal with the way his aerials are now, and I can dig the whole explosives moveset, but the tilts? Really?

Oh well. We have what we have. Speaking of Z's Fsmash vs. S's ftilt, there's like this extremely small window where if you start the Fsmash, you can lean back far enough to evade the ftilt and hit Snake before his second one pops up, but that's a pretty rare occurrence and requires a fair amount of luck and skill to pull off. I believe that his ftilt is also jointed, so if you can get just the disjointed part of Z's Fsmash in, you can override his attack, but unless you predict him and get out of the way, he shouldn't be ftilting when you're out of range.

 

[MrEh]

Oh well. We have what we have. Speaking of Z's Fsmash vs. S's ftilt, there's like this extremely small window where if you start the Fsmash, you can lean back far enough to evade the ftilt and hit Snake before his second one pops up

That's only viable with characters like Bowser, Sonic, and Yoshi. :/

At least those three have noticeable drawback animations.

 

[sniperworm]

That's only viable with characters like Bowser, Sonic, and Yoshi. :/

At least those three have noticeable drawback animations.

Zelda actually pulls back her upper body a decent amount (her head moves back and gets lower). Unfortunately this has only minor applications because ground attack hitboxes will still hit her lower half (which doesn't move).

Zelda's Fsmash is high vulnerable to being beaten by Snake's Ftilt and Utilt. Because his tilts are much faster and are massively disjointed, he has the option of hitting Zelda right before her hitboxes come out (while she is shifting her body forward and extending her arms) or he could even hit our arms while the hitboxes are coming out (as long as he hits before the last hit and if he's far enough away).

 

[Darkmusician]

If timed right Snakes jab will stop Zelda's f-smash.

 

[sniperworm]

If timed right Snakes jab will stop Zelda's f-smash.

If timed correctly, any fast move with decent range easily beats Zelda's Fsmash (if you hit her while she's shifting her weight forward and extending her arms). The best example of this is Falco's jab, which can easily stop any Fsmash that was spaced so that it could hit (12 frame average reaction time + 2 frame jab = the average Falco can jab you out of Fsmash on reaction...).

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah I find that really interesting sometimes... for example with Falco's Fsmash, at any point he starts it you can use Dsmash the very tip of his feathers and knock him away, even when he pulls it back.

Zelda's Ftilt also has some weird obscure spacing to it... it drags you ever so slightly back when you buffer your next move. The hitbox looks very cute lol when you zoom right into it (with the unrestricted camera code). It's surprisingly ranged.

 

[Darkmusician]

If timed correctly, any fast move with decent range easily beats Zelda's Fsmash (if you hit her while she's shifting her weight forward and extending her arms). The best example of this is Falco's jab, which can easily stop any Fsmash that was spaced so that it could hit (12 frame average reaction time + 2 frame jab = the average Falco can jab you out of Fsmash on reaction...).

Silly Slow Girl.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser's Jab beats everything. lololol

 

[sniperworm]

Silly Slow Girl.

Luckily most Falco's haven't realized this and are content with blocking our Fsmash.

Bowser's Jab beats everything. lololol

Shouldn't you be in class?

 

[MrEh]

Shouldn't you be in class?

I am in class. XD

 

[Darkmusician]

Luckily most Falco's haven't realized this and are content with blocking our Fsmash.



Shouldn't you be in class?

Shouldn't we be working?

 

[MrEh]

Shouldn't we be working?

Bobby seems to be having fun at home. XD

 

[Icyo]

Bobby seems to be having fun at home. XD

I talked to your bosses and got you guys a free day.

 

[Dayzin]

What stage should you counter pick against snakes and metaknights?

 

[MrEh]

There is no stage to counterpick against them. MK will **** Zelda on every imaginable countepick, and so will Snake.

Just stick to your favorite neutral and hope for the best. Because when you're fighting Snake and MK, stage pick doesn't matter. You're going to lose.

 

[Dayzin]

very inspirational...umm not even sure what to say to that...man i didn't think things were that bad against them. I can't even pick rainbow cruise against snake?

 

[Darkmusician]

If you gonna CP Rainbow Cruise vs Snake it would be a good idea to not use Zelda.

 

[MrEh]

Snake is pretty good on Rainbow Cruise actually. His recovery allows him to go anywhere without trouble.

Zelda's more likely to get gimped then he is.

 

[KayLo!]

Snake is pretty good on Rainbow Cruise actually. His recovery allows him to go anywhere without trouble.

Zelda's more likely to get gimped then he is.

Well, the point of CP'ing RC on Snake is to limit his use of explosives and mortar sliding, but I still agree with you since I've seen some very good Snakes adapt their playstyle extremely well to fit this stage. Some characters can abuse the way he's forced to play here..... however, Zelda can't, really, since she kind of sucks on RC herself -- and you're right, she's definitely more likely to get stage-gimped.

Besides that, she has a lot of trouble dealing with his tilts, which can lead to insanely early deaths up top. Utilt.....

 

[Darkmusician]

The move stage puts Zelda at risk to get killed early much more than Snake.

My honest suggestion if CPing RC would be to use MK because he does so well there.

If you're going to use Zelda stick to neutrals.

 

[Dayzin]

Alright ty you guys, was thinking about going with zelda straight for my next tourny but u guys are making me think other wise. Now that i think about it at my first tourny the only ppl i won against were ppl that didn't use mk and snake...except for that one marth player...

 

[KayLo!]

except for that one marth player...

Marth is also a bad matchup, so that could be part of the reason why.

 

[MrEh]

Going straight Zelda is crazy. That's the sad truth of the matter.

If you're playing for fun, then go ahead and do it. Hell, I do straight Bowser in tournaments and I love every second of it. ^^

If you want to win though...then you better practice with a secondary. Zelda just can't do it on her own. She loses to every high tier to badly, and she has the obvious MK/Snake problem.

 

[Darkmusician]

Secondary characters should be used to cover the weaknesses of your main character. In Zelda's case Meta Knight is really effective not just because he's MK but because he helps against Marth, GDub, other MKs, Snakes etc. Simply put he's too good not to know how to use. And if you're playing to win it will help your chances a lot. Of course use Zelda in the matches where you trust her in it more. You can always use her against the top tiers of course but eventually you will start struggling because of Zelda's limitations.

There is a huge difference between secondaries and alternate characters.

 

[MrEh]

Use Zelda against Bowser. lol

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Has there ever been a thread to discuss good secondaries/alternates for Zelda players?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Has there ever been a thread to discuss good secondaries/alternates for Zelda players?

i don't think so, but the most popular is Peach XD

but why discuss when you can just 2nd MK.....

 

[Dayzin]

Secondary characters should be used to cover the weaknesses of your main character. In Zelda's case Meta Knight is really effective not just because he's MK but because he helps against Marth, GDub, other MKs, Snakes etc. Simply put he's too good not to know how to use. And if you're playing to win it will help your chances a lot. Of course use Zelda in the matches where you trust her in it more. You can always use her against the top tiers of course but eventually you will start struggling because of Zelda's limitations.

There is a huge difference between secondaries and alternate characters.

mmmm i don't think my secondaries would cover my weakness against mk and snake. king dx3 is just way to big, i get hit by everything when fighting them and my yoshi is just not good enough right now...i should pick another secondary shouldn I...

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

any set ups for dtilt? or is it a punishing move?

 

[sniperworm]

any set ups for dtilt? or is it a punishing move?

Dtilt can lead into Dtilt, but that's probably not the answer you're looking for...

Anyway, it's more of a punishing/spacing move (but mostly punishing).

 

[MrEh]

DTILT OoS

Seriously.

 

[goodkid]

any set ups for dtilt? or is it a punishing move?

d-tilt can lead to d-tilt locks. It can lead to: grabs, jab, smashes, tech-chased aerials. Pretty much covers everything.

D-tilt OOS, I'll try that more often, it works better for chars. with a good ground game, but I could be wrong. It keeps Zelda safe from MK's Fair, but I may just be wrong again, because if he fast-falls she's screwed.

 

[Kataefi]

Read this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082

I didn't sweat blood for nothing forcing people to get this information for me.

Spoiler

<333 kaylo/hotgarbage

But in summary... it's best effective around 50% onwards on every character. I'm very serious... if you play it right you can chain so many moves together it's kerazy, like my custom title

And the lock...... is bad imo in comparison to some of the more damaging options available.

 

[sniperworm]

Read this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082

I didn't sweat blood for nothing forcing people to get this information for me.

Spoiler

<333 kaylo/hotgarbage

But in summary... it's best effective around 50% onwards on every character. I'm very serious... if you play it right you can chain so many moves together it's kerazy, like my custom title

And the lock...... is bad imo in comparison to some of the more damaging options available.

I'm pretty sure the original question was about how to land a Dtilt (hence any setups or is it a punisher), not how to follow up after one.

I could be wrong though ... and good information either way.

 

[Kataefi]

This is what too much coffee does to you sniperworm =(