This Mage's Stages! Counterpick Thread, Discussing: Diddy!

[zeldspazz]

Mansion is banned in most places anyway, so eh.

What you take him to doesn't matter. I like BF. Just ban Brinstar and be done with it.

Come on thats not the spirit This is for discussion, not 2-3 people post there opinions and be done with it.

Still not sure if banning Brinstar is what I'd do. It's a great Ness stage, but it's a good Zelda stage. I'm wonderifng if there are any stages that ness really likes that zelda actually doesn't.

Im pretty sure by looking at the Ness main's posts you can see a stage you might be looking for, but Brinstar doesnt seem like a good Zelda stage at all

 

[AzNfinesse]

brinstar isn't a really good stage for zelda. it's not a horrible stage, it's just that ness is good at it. but you know what that's what alts are for

 

[KayLo!]

Still not sure if banning Brinstar is what I'd do. It's a great Ness stage, but it's a good Zelda stage.

Not against Ness it ain't. Fire pillars are no joke even with Naryu's, and if you get caught in one, you might as well say goodbye to your stock at high damage since 9/10 he'll grab you. Also with the way the bottom of the stage/ledge situation is, I guarantee you'll have to FW up through the bottom at some point, which leaves you completely vulnerable to any number of Ness's basically guaranteed kill moves (bthrow, bat -- hell, he might even be able to get a PKT2 off).

Lava saves his recovery, but it's not quite so beneficial to Zelda, especially with her light weight. The smaller size of the stage also helps Ness more than it helps us.... just a low ceiling would be fine, but all of Brinstar's blastlines are closer, allowing his bthrow, bat, bair, and uair kill at ridiculously low percentages compared to normal. Even dair can kill relatively early if it's on one of the upper platforms.

Especially... bthrow though.... *eye twitch*

I also don't think the platform layout is especially good for us, but, whatever, maybe I'm just biased against Brinstar. I do know that it's a really good stage for Ness, though, and generally you want to avoid taking your opponent's character to their favorite stage unless yours does 10x better on it. That's just common sense.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I agree with banning Brinstar. I already stated my opinions for why the stage isn't one of my favorites with Zelda when we discussed Pikachu and most of those reasons also apply to Ness. He also sharks pretty well there (not MK well but you know what I mean) and has way too many places to use his PK Fire.

For the second bad stage I'm torn between Pirate ship and Delfino as both of them help him land spikes. Delfino also lets him use platforms in the moving part, attack by coming from under the stage and has some walk-off parts where his throws are extremely dangerous. Pirate ship on the other hand completely eliminates one of his huge weaknessess by removing the need to recover with PKT2. It also has rather nice layout for him.

For the good stages I'm actually going to suggest Yoshi's island (maybe not as the best stage but still). Overall it hurts his recovery even more than it does ours, shy guys always come up just in time to block PKT and we still can use the middle platform for shorthop Uairs and such. I think the pros outweight the cons for Zelda in this matchup.

Good stages for Zelda would be Battlefield PS1 or Luigi's Mansion.

What I'm thinking is it BF really more beneficial to us than it's to Ness? Both of the characters are well protected when they're under the platforms and are helped by the close side blastzones. The reason I'm thinking this stage might not be a good idea is that Ness is better at getting under those platforms: he falls faster, moves faster and is smaller. He also does better at edgeguarding than Zelda.

 

[zeldspazz]

I think if we have to decide between Delfino and Pirate Ship, we should pick Delfino considering Pirate ship is banned in a lot of places anyway. Ill also put Yoshi's Island as the best if nobody objects.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

See, though, I'm really comfortable on brinstar and not comfortable on pirate ship at all. It's not like I'd TAKE ness to brinstar, but I think I'd rather fight him there than pirate ship, myself.

 

[MrEh]

Of you could just take him to a neutral.

You know...Zelda's actual good stages?

 

[zeldspazz]

Yoshis Island is a nuetral and screws over ness more than us, so Im leaning towards that.

 

[AzNfinesse]

srsly i'd take ness to SV. the platform and random balloons can really screw up his PKT and it's a safe stage for zelda to fight in.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I like smashville for ness, but, obviously, if you know how to work Yoshi's then do it because it's a lot worse for him than us.

THOSE would be my two choices against him, tought battlefield is also in our advantage. I'd avoid brinstar and pirate ship at all costs though.

 

[zeldspazz]

Ok I think we've pretty much reached an agreement so Ill update the OP in a bit

 

[Uffe]

i'd also consider banning pirate ship if you're not too good at that...if ness catches you in the water ur screwed.

i always CP PS1 or SV against ness. pick any stage that would otherwise interrupt his PK 1 and throw off his PK 2.

I can tell you right now that in most cases, PK Thunder won't be interrupted on Smashville. I should've added Luigi's Mansion as well. Ness doesn't exactly revolve around PK Thunder except for when he's recovering. He can create fire pillars there as well. There is also a possibility he can set up an easy jab lock there as well. If the Mansion is broken, then it's basically like a larger version of Final Destination. But if you want my opinion on this stage, other than it most likely being banned, both Ness and Zelda do surprisingly well on this stage. If Zelda doesn't, then I must've been fighting some amazing Zelda.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Not against Ness it ain't. Fire pillars are no joke even with Naryu's, and if you get caught in one, you might as well say goodbye to your stock at high damage since 9/10 he'll grab you. Also with the way the bottom of the stage/ledge situation is, I guarantee you'll have to FW up through the bottom at some point, which leaves you completely vulnerable to any number of Ness's basically guaranteed kill moves (bthrow, bat -- hell, he might even be able to get a PKT2 off).

Lava saves his recovery, but it's not quite so beneficial to Zelda, especially with her light weight. The smaller size of the stage also helps Ness more than it helps us.... just a low ceiling would be fine, but all of Brinstar's blastlines are closer, allowing his bthrow, bat, bair, and uair kill at ridiculously low percentages compared to normal. Even dair can kill relatively early if it's on one of the upper platforms.

Especially... bthrow though.... *eye twitch*

I also don't think the platform layout is especially good for us, but, whatever, maybe I'm just biased against Brinstar. I do know that it's a really good stage for Ness, though, and generally you want to avoid taking your opponent's character to their favorite stage unless yours does 10x better on it. That's just common sense.

I may be missing something but I thought after 100 you will bounce out of fire pillar.

 

[zeldspazz]

I may be missing something but I thought after 100 you will bounce out of fire pillar.

Even if that's true, the Brinstar blast zones are probably small enough to be killed be b-throw and fsmash.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I may be missing something but I thought after 100 you will bounce out of fire pillar.

Ness' B-throw can kill Zelda way before that, especially in a stage as small as Brinstar.

 

[Elder Sister]

does anyone disagree if we discuss mario next?(after snake?)
that would, personally, interest me the most

 

[zeldspazz]

does anyone disagree if we discuss mario next?(after snake?)
that would, personally, interest me the most

We can right now if you'd like, since nobody has given any info on Snake yet.

 

[KayLo!]

Nooooooo, sniperworm and I have to have round 2 over Zelda vs. Snake on Castle Siege, lol.

(Jkjk.)

 

[zeldspazz]

So Kaylo, do you want to do Snake, or are you ok with Mario first?

 

[GodAtHand]

VS Snake I like... Halberd. And Battlefield... and that is all.

 

[sasook]

VS Snake I like... Halberd. And Battlefield... and that is all.

Aren't those both really good Snake stages?

Halberd = low ceiling, so his utilt is even more annoying

BF = tons of stuff. Close range generally, platforms help his explosives game, etc.

 

[zeldspazz]

Lol, actually I personally take Snake to battlefield, but overall its better for Snake than it is for us XD Idk why, but I like Battlefield over places like FD and SV

 

[KayLo!]

Oh, I didn't mean to say we had to do Snake, lol. I was just referring to the debate sniper and I had a while ago about the benefits/non-benefits of taking him to Castle Siege.

 

[zeldspazz]

Im gonna stick with Snake for now, the OP editing is being glitchy right now anywayz >.<
We'll do Mario after Snake

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Hmm.... If you want to know what stages NOT to take Snake, then avoid Battlefield and Frigate Orpheon.

As for a bad stage for Snake in this situation, it would most likely be Rainbow Cruise or Norfair.

Please note that certain Snakes play very differently from the rest. In which case, you may have to find another stage.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

VS Snake I like... Halberd. And Battlefield... and that is all.

I don't like either stage snake seems to excel on battle field and halberd. Castle seige or PS1 are a few stages I feel comfortable fighting snake on.

 

[zeldspazz]

Im glad you mentioned that Legendary, cus I wanna hear this debate between Kaylo and Sniper about Castle Seige at some point

 

[Elder Sister]

Im gonna stick with Snake for now, the OP editing is being glitchy right now anywayz >.<
We'll do Mario after Snake

thats great. i will fight a mario soon, thats why

as for snake...*shrugs*
*goes lurking on snake boards*

 

[zeldspazz]

Guys?

Pinkfloydbump

 

[Elder Sister]

im sorry im no help...T___T
one thing is certain
dont trust snake


/random post

 

[Kataefi]

Snake is just really hard to counterpick... I'm just not comfortable facing snake at all, so I'd probably pick the most unfair stage if legal to screw him over.

How are snake's fortress defences on Norfair and Rainbow Cruise?

 

[KayLo!]

Not sure about Norfair (he can probably outcamp you), but if you take Snake to RC, you're going to die obscenely early at the top.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Rainbow cruise does prevent grenade camping but Zelda will be dying way earlier there than she could afford to. I'd still say it's a good option if you feel confortable there.

As for Norfair: DON'T DO IT! Not only can he still camp you perfectly well but he also has insane amount of platforms to place his mines on. Perhaps the worst thing there is his U-tilt though: he can just hide under the platforms and hit you through them with it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I personally think that Battlefield is a good choice.

A lot of Snake players use U-smash to edgeguard, and you can use Nayru's on that.

You can hide on the platforms too. Just be wary of utilts.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

frigate my be your best bet

 

[-Mars-]

I take Snake to Japes.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

learn how to press down+B or lose.

anyway, we need a stage with platforms and a stage that isn't so large that snake can run away and camp, nor so small that zelda can't get away to reset spacing.

 

[mountain_tiger]

learn how to press down+B or lose.

Because Sheik is clearly a hard counter to Snake...

Anyway, Jungle Japes sounds like a pretty good stage to pick. His UTilt isn't quite so deadly there, he can't lay traps and camp as effectively, and the platform at the top is good for Uair and lightning kick antics. Plus Zelda's bad recovery isn't as big an issue. The only problem is that Snake lives for ages.

 

[-Mars-]

Because Sheik is clearly a hard counter to Snake...

Anyway, Jungle Japes sounds like a pretty good stage to pick. His UTilt isn't quite so deadly there, he can't lay traps and camp as effectively, and the platform at the top is good for Uair and lightning kick antics. Plus Zelda's bad recovery isn't as big an issue. The only problem is that Snake lives for ages.

Well switching into an even matchup is better than trying to play a hard counter.....

Snake dies about the same off the sides as Zelda will......you won't ever kill him vertically on Japes.

 

[zeldspazz]

So..many...opinions O.O