This Mage's Stages! Counterpick Thread, Discussing: Diddy!

[mountain_tiger]

Well switching into an even matchup is better than trying to play a hard counter.....

Snake dies about the same off the sides as Zelda will......you won't ever kill him vertically on Japes.

Sheik vs Snake isn't even. More like 40:60 Snake's favour. Still better than Zelda's MU with him (either 35:65 or 30:70), but you're still at a noticeable disadvantage.

And Snake doesn't die off the sides at the same percents as Zelda. Snake is significantly heavier than her, thus he dies later.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I take Snake to Japes.

You also take MK to halberd.

 

[KayLo!]

You also take MK to halberd.

This man has just made a very valid point.

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik vs Snake isn't even. More like 40:60 Snake's favour. Still better than Zelda's MU with him (either 35:65 or 30:70), but you're still at a noticeable disadvantage.

And Snake doesn't die off the sides at the same percents as Zelda. Snake is significantly heavier than her, thus he dies later.

Sheik vs. Snake is a matter of opinion.........i'm of the opinion that the matchup is fairly even due to a number of things and I think a lot of Sheik players agree with me. I could go into detail but this isn't the place. You are not at a noticeable disadvantage with Sheik against Snake....and that's all i'll say.

On JAPES lightning kicks and dsmashes are going to be killing off the sides about the same time as Snakes moves.

You also take MK to halberd.

This man has just made a very valid point.

When it comes to picking stages against characters that don't really have a bad stage to select from........I keep it simple.

MK dies really early off the top on Halberd and on Japes you eliminate some of Snake's vertical killing potential.

Like really? You people are trying to tell others to pick stages like BF against these two?

 

[Zolga Owns]

Call me crazy but I actually like taking Snake to FD.
I find that I can control his approach and camp game way better here.

 

[zeldspazz]

Come on guys, lets dicuss this maturely. You guys should feel bad, because that statement just came from a 13 year old. I has the power (jk)

But seriously, discuss these things with a little less attitude shall we?

 

[KayLo!]

I hope I'm not included in "you people." The only stage I've mentioned as "good" vs. Snake is Castle Siege.... I might as well just quote my whole argument about it from back in the day when sniperworm and I discussed it.

But I'm lazy and leaving my house soon, so I'll do it later (if I remember, lol).

BF is meh against Snake, imo. I think he can control the platforms too well there and use them for protection, plus the stage is a little too small for my tastes. I kind of like Legendary's idea of taking Snake to Frigate, actually, as long as you don't get annoyed by the funky ledge situation.

But I've never fought a Snake with Zelda on Frigate, so take my opinion on that with a huge grain of salt.

Honestly, he's harder for me to think of stages for than MK simply because his projectile camp game is so good.

 

[-Mars-]

Call me crazy but I actually like taking Snake to FD.
I find that I can control his approach and camp game way better here.

I agree, while not having any thing detrimental to Snake's game it is probably one of your better options for counterpicking against Snake.

Come on guys, lets dicuss this maturely. You guys should feel bad, because that statement just came from a 13 year old. I has the power (jk)

But seriously, discuss these things with a little less attitude shall we?

If you're referring to me I am only addressing comments that we're directed towards me.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

When it comes to picking stages against characters that don't really have a bad stage to select from........I keep it simple.

MK dies really early off the top on Halberd and on Japes you eliminate some of Snake's vertical killing potential.

Like really? You people are trying to tell others to pick stages like BF against these two?

Who are you people? My very first post was to avoid battle field against MK. I said the stages I felt comfortable fighting Snake on was Ps1 and Seige. Then I went out to say frigate may be your best bet. I think you need to know who you're arguing against and what we're posting before you say things like this.

Call me crazy but I actually like taking Snake to FD.
I find that I can control his approach and camp game way better here.

crazy

 

[Kataefi]

We also most definitely need to keep our cool in a thread like this. Legendary... any chance you can go into detail as to why Ps1 is useful for you?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I like it for a couple of reason. I like the small platforms in the first transformation. Those are really good for Zelda and really bad for snake if he's one one of those. The stage transforms which means that different field both players have to adjust to. It prevents snake from just throwing nades at you and I could be mistake but I think the mines stay when it transforms. So if it was on the ground it would go to like one of the upper platforms. I think my favorite transformatoin is the one with the tree and house type thing followed by the windmill one. Recovery is tricky on this stage but with some practice you should start to be able to get the hang of it. Get him off stage use din to make recovery hell and force him into a mistake. Also I've been able to spike people on that little white part next to the edge with a dtilt. In case a snake blows him self up or gets himself stuck there it's a good think to know.

 

[AzNfinesse]

has anyone considered green greens? i mean it really does reduce snake's utilt kill potential as well. and, personally, i don't have a problem fighting as zelda in green greens. jus a thought that could be tested out. i'm applying the same logic i would with g&w whenever i play against a snake, and the CP i usually use is green greens. thoughts?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

has anyone considered green greens? i mean it really does reduce snake's utilt kill potential as well. and, personally, i don't have a problem fighting as zelda in green greens. jus a thought that could be tested out. i'm applying the same logic i would with g&w whenever i play against a snake, and the CP i usually use is green greens. thoughts?

I thought that stage was banned?

 

[AzNfinesse]

I thought that stage was banned?

i've always gone there.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I really do NOT like castle seige against snake.

more at 11!

 

[Zolga Owns]

Green Greens is banned in a lot of places.
(Personally I think it shouldn't b but that's irrelevant here.)

 

[zeldspazz]

has anyone considered green greens? i mean it really does reduce snake's utilt kill potential as well. and, personally, i don't have a problem fighting as zelda in green greens. jus a thought that could be tested out. i'm applying the same logic i would with g&w whenever i play against a snake, and the CP i usually use is green greens. thoughts?

I thought Greens Greens had a very low ceiling. *Goes to check list*

Edit: *Is back* Yeah, Greens Greens has one fo the lowest ceilings in the game, so that just screams utilt kills. The random bombs are also gonna be killing us a lot, plus Snake can plant the bomb thing (total mind blank right there, cant think of the name for his down b O.O) on the blocks with bombs to explode them as we just over them. Not really seeming like a gret stage to me. At the moment, I like whoever suggested Jungle Japes, since the high ceiling eliminates vertical kill, lightning kicks and fsmash are gonna be killing Snake off the sides at decent percentages, and he probably has a harder time getting out of the water, and once he does his recovery is open for free aerials. Also, I whenever I fight a Snake I go to FD as well. For PS1, the only thing is that if you have platforms, it might be bad for him, but it's worse for us if we're on it. Although, like you, Im a fan of the windmill part as well, because you can tell the windmill at times to save a KO.

 

[Kataefi]

Zeldspazz shall we move onto the next character?

Maybe we can come back to snake...

 

[-Mars-]

For whoever said Frigate as a stage against Snake that's a pretty bad idea. Your making silly things like his fsmash all of a sudden be able to hit.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

For whoever said Frigate as a stage against Snake that's a pretty bad idea. Your making silly things like his fsmash all of a sudden be able to hit.

I said frigate because of the right side of the initial stage has no ledge. Yeah it can be harmful for you but there's increased odds off getting a gimp from grabbing him from his up B. There's always a risk of getting punished when you used FW if you don't sweet spot the ledge.

 

[zeldspazz]

Yeah, lets save Snake for a different time, cus we seem to be getting no where with him atm. Lets move on to Mario, as suggested by Elder Sister.

 

[-Mars-]

Battlefield.

 

[Brinzy]

Strikeout Yoshi's.

 

[-Mars-]

K we iz done....Backz 2 Snake Nao??

 

[zeldspazz]

Come on guys..... >.>

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Lylat is a good choice of stages and so is frigate. He has a terrible recovery so he can have trouble recovering on both stages.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

battlefiled is just a nice Zelda stage in general and mario doesn't own the stage or anything, so I'd take him there too.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Lylat is a good choice of stages and so is frigate. He has a terrible recovery so he can have trouble recovering on both stages.

I really don't like the idea of Lylat. Mario's F.L.U.D.D. is horrible for Zelda in that stage since it's hard enough to sweetspot the ledges normally and having to change the angle of FW constantly certainly doesn't help that. This stage also helps him get inside Zelda with its many slants and constant tilting in which Mario adapts much better. On the good side it makes D-smash extremely deadly when used near the edge.

 

[NightSky]

*peeks into thread*
Battlefield is usually a Good CP for Mario against certain characters, Zelda just owns this stage.
Mario's recovery may be mediocre, but it's good enough to recover on most stages without any problems.
For CPs take him to Battlefield or Luigi's, just be careful of jab locks >_<

Ban Yoshi's :x

 

[zeldspazz]

Hi Night :D!

Anywayz, why ban Yoshis? A few people said that already.

 

[zeldspazz]

*sorry for double post*

Do we need to switch character and come back to Mario?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Sneaky switch to the next character... took me a while to notice we moved on.

I think CP selection against Marth is highly dependant on your personal preference. I personally like to fight him on flat stages, namely Final Destination, but most of others would probably go somewhere with more platforms.

Only thing obvious is that you certainly don't want to go to places that limit Zelda's movement or recovery... she's can't afford losing either one in this match. Because of this I'd suggest avoiding Yoshi's island, Lylat, Halberd, Pokemon stadium 1 and Delfino. Rainbow cruise would also be a bad idea since it forces you into air combat and Marth is infinitely better in it than Zelda.

 

[-Mars-]

Now Marth is a character that I would take to frigate.

 

[Kataefi]

Me too actually, I've always taken Marth's there. Lylat as well... I find the tilts raise me up closer to his Fair spacing game so I try to position myself on the higher slants if possible for a dash attack OoS.

 

[KayLo!]

FD is good. Probably not the best, but the fact that it's completely flat makes it easier to predict how he'll approach.

I would avoid BF. Both characters can take really good advantage of the platforms, but the cramped space vs. his speed/sword and small size (tipper fsmashes kill so early.... ><) always make me a bit uncomfortable.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Ban Norfair, definitely. In this case, Norfair is no fair. I haven't tried Frigate Orpheon myself, but in theory I think that might work. Also, I think that Smashville might be a good choice here. Well, you're still at a disadvantage, but at least he has less options of approach and it doesn't mess up your recovery like FD sometimes does.

 

[KayLo!]

and it doesn't mess up your recovery like FD sometimes does.

Really? People still mess up their recovery on FD? x.x

I've played on that stage so many times, I don't even notice anymore that the ledges have lips on them.

 

[Kataefi]

On norfair you get free lightning kicks on Marth everytime you trip him as the whole arena has drop through platforms except the bottom. I wouldn't call this a devastating stage (though it's definitely bad but not as bad as probably other ones out there).

Norfair is normally not legal in many tournaments either way.

 

[zeldspazz]

Sneaky switch to the next character... took me a while to notice we moved on.

I think CP selection against Marth is highly dependant on your personal preference. I personally like to fight him on flat stages, namely Final Destination, but most of others would probably go somewhere with more platforms.

I personally think platforms are a bad choice against Marth, he puts on a lot of platform pressure.

Only thing obvious is that you certainly don't want to go to places that limit Zelda's movement or recovery... she's can't afford losing either one in this match. Because of this I'd suggest avoiding Yoshi's mansion, Lylat, Halberd, Pokemon stadium 1 and Delfino. Rainbow cruise would also be a bad idea since it forces you into air combat and Marth is infinitely better in it than Zelda.

Did you mean Yoshi's Island, Luigis Mansion, or both?

FD is good. Probably not the best, but the fact that it's completely flat makes it easier to predict how he'll approach.

I would avoid BF. Both characters can take really good advantage of the platforms, but the cramped space vs. his speed/sword and small size (tipper fsmashes kill so early.... ><) always make me a bit uncomfortable.

This I agree with, although I personally like Smashville more than FD

Now Marth is a character that I would take to frigate.

Me too actually, I've always taken Marth's there. Lylat as well... I find the tilts raise me up closer to his Fair spacing game so I try to position myself on the higher slants if possible for a dash attack OoS.

Details on Frigate?



My personally choice will probably be Smashville, for reasons already stated.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Did you mean Yoshi's Island, Luigis Mansion, or both?

Yoshi's island. I was having a conversation with my sister about whether Luigi's mansion helps Marth or Zelda more and accidentally typed Yoshi's mansion. I fail >_>

*goes to fix*