This Mage's Stages! Counterpick Thread, Discussing: Diddy!

[zeldspazz]

You guys should be proud. Im finally contributing something to this forum that matters. Only cus Kata made me do it Anyway I present to you (cue cheesey title):

This Mages Stages!
The Stage Counterpick Thread​

^Zeldas in the question Mark ^​

Post 1
I-About Posting
II-The Stages
III-The Lineup
VI-Current Discussion
Post 2
Past Discussions/Summary
Post 3​

Quick View

I-About Posting​

What to discuss here:​

Here we will be discussing which stage is the best stage for Zelda in each Character Matchup. So, the goal is to find a stage the benefits Zelda's few strengths, but at the same time put our opposing character at a disadvantage due to the surroundings. This I am hoping will help those ******* stupid GaW matches! harder matchups for Zelda become a little easier. We will also be discussing the worst stage, because bringing them to a stage that puts them at an advantage is not what we want. We main Zelda, we're already handicapped, so let's not make it any worse shall we ​

So, we should figure out:​

-The best stage
-Two good stages in case they ban that one or its not available
-The worst stage​

Characters' general weaknesses are what we need to find out, and then we can apply stages that enhance those weaknesses.

^ This is perfect thinking

Your Posts Should NOT:​

-Be written unclearly. It makes you look stupid and that you dont know what your talking about.
-Be offtopic. Sometimes is ok, I know its impossible to stay ontopic forever especially if its a tough discussion, be we Zelda mains have a problem staying on track I noticed so lets work on that
-Have no substance. Please post something that could actually be beneficial to the discussion, and have some reasoning to support it. Dont just put "This stage sux!" and then post it.
-Be offensive toward others opinions. If you disagree, post a civil and supportive debate about it, and let the better argument win. But dont flame them and tell them theyre flat out wrong/stupid, thats not necessary and is very rude.
-Be spammy. Trolling to a minimum please.​

You Posts Should/Can Have:

-Suggestions for new discussions/characters
-Smart and factual information on the topic
-Correct information to the best of your ability.

II-The Stages​

These are the stages that can be considered while discussing the characters:​

Neutral​

Yoshi's Island
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Lylat Cruise​

Starter/Counter​

Halberd
Rainbow Cruise
Castle Seige
Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar​

Usually Banned, But Still Open For Discussion​

Jungle Japes
Luigis Mansion
Pokemon Stadium 2
Norfair
Pirate Ship
Pictochat​

Here is the sizes of the blast zones for each stage. The numbers represent how much damage Mario must have in order for Mario's Upsmash (undiminished and fully charged) to kill Mario off the top. Numbers in slashes means those are from major platforms, in ascending order. Link to original thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908 :​

New Pork City: 118 (Bottom)
*Jungle Japes: 100/97/93
Summit: 94 (Bottom) 71 (Top)
Green Hill Zone: 89/80/74
*Luigi's Mansion: 88/84/78/67
Mario Circuit: 88/81/73
Shadow Moses: 88/80/70
Onett: 88
*Pirate Ship: 85
Skyworld: 85/80/76/70
Havenbow: 85
*Pictochat: 84
Eldin: 83
*Pokemon Stadium 2: 83/75
*Battlefield: 82/75/68
*FD: 82
*Delfino: 82
*Norfair: 82/74/67
*Yoshi's Island: 82/75
*Lylat Cruise: 82/74
Spear Pillar: 82
*Castle Siege: 82-88-81
Distant Planet: 82
*Smashville: 82/74
*Frigate: 81-77
*Brinstar: 81/74/68
Wario Ware: 79
*Halberd: 77/75/68-73/65
Aero Dive: 77
FlatZone2: 77
*Rainbow Ride: 75
Green Greens: 75
Yoshi's Island (Melee): 74
Corneria: 74/70/57
Mushroomy: 67​

*These ones we are discussing

III-The Lineup​

We will be discussing the characters in this order:​

Metaknight
Pikachu
Ness
Snake - To be rediscussed
Mario - To be rediscussed
Marth
Falco
Peach - To be rediscussed
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy Kong---------------------------Current Discussion
Olimar
Wario​

This is the order unless there is a consensus or need for a different character to be chosen first. I tried to do the harder matchups first since those are most important. Make any suggestions for a different order though, this is just the order if nobody cares which one's next ​

IV-Current Character/Detailed Summary
Diddy Kong!

Best Stage:​

Detailed Summary:​

Other Good Stages:​

Worst Stages:​

Summary:​

 

[zeldspazz]

Second Post​

Past Discussions/Summaries​

Metaknight!​

​

Best Stage:
Battlefield​

Summary:
Ok lets face it, Metaknight doesnt truly have any stage that hinders him. So, our best bet is to go with Battlefield, since this popular neutral helps Zelda in a number of ways. The relatively small blast zones help Zelda kill early, which is very key in this matchup. The platforms can set of for LK, nairs, and uairs, just try to find yourself on top of them too much. Also, our Up-smash barely reaches through those platforms, so they are the perfect height. As always though, this stage gives Metaknight just as much of a horizontal kill advantage as us, and his gimps us to hell anywhere we go, so just try to work around those weaknesses and this stage should be your best bet.​

Other Good Stages:
Smashville
Castle Siege​

Worst Stages:
Rainbow Cruise
Norfair​

Summary:​

Ok, of all the places to bring Metaknight, these are by far the worst. His aerial game is broken, and we have a very limited one, and in both these stages, we are in the air a lot. Rainbow Cruise also has an extremely low ceiling at some points, where Metaknight can do all sorts of crazy things with Shuttle Loop, 'nado, and uairs for easy kills. Norfair, with so many edges, is planking and sharking central, and there basically nothing Zelda (or a lot of characters) can do about it. Stay away from these

Pikachu!​

​

Best Stage:
Battlefield​

Detailed Summary:
This is going to be a very popular favorite as we go into future discussions. This is a very effective stage against Pikachu, since not only do we have the platforms for aerials as usual, but the platforms also protect is from Thunder, one of Pika's most powerful moves when it connects correctly. Other than that, the usual, decently small blast zones, no weird edges for easier recovering, and the aerials/upsmash through platforms. ​

Other Good Stages:
Luigis Mansion​

Worst Stages:
Final Destination​

Summary:
No platforms for cover from Thunder, weird dip in the ledge, bigg(er) blast zones. Using the information that the lovely Kaylo presented us with, this stage is apparently one of Pika's favorites. ​

Pokemon Stadium 1​

Summary:​

Why do campachus love PS1?

Campachus love PS1 because, as someone else said, every transformation benefits Pikachu's camping in some way.​

The normal transformation is pretty basic and flat-ish, and we can use camp to force you onto a platform or make Zelda approach.​

The Fire transformation has that funky tree, which we can camp behind on either side since tjolt clings to the ground. On the left, we can jab or dtilt lock as well, and our jab is significantly faster than anything Zelda has. It's also kinda ridiculously disjointed considering it's just Pika's head, lol.​

The Rock transformation lets us camp from either side of the big rock cliff thingy on the left. There are a dozen places from which we can tjolt safely even if you try to reflect them all.​

The water transformation is a mixed bag. QAC shenanigans can be too fun here, and we can use the windmill to tech and live from hits that would otherwise kill us. The windmill can also be used to set up jab locks, although the fact that it moves can screw us up..... also, tjolt camping if you're stuck underneath the windmill can be really annoying for Zelda.​

The grass transformation is probably the least useful for us. The platforms aren't too bad, but they don't really benefit us particularly well.... in terms of this matchup, this is probably the most neutral of all the transformations.​

^ Combine this with hard to sweetspot ledges, and an average sized blast zone, this stage is not really benefiting Zelda in many noticeable ways. In the main transformation and the grass transformation, try to take advantage of the platforms for aerials to rack damage, and the top platform in the grass formation for kills. Try not to get stuck in the windmill formation, and if you do dont attempt the usual usmash, because of Pika's height and his thunder jolt is a pain in here. Dont get stuck in the middle of the Rock formation! Pika will destroy in there if he gets the momentum. ​

Ness!​

​

Best Stage:
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Summary:​

For the good stages I'm actually going to suggest Yoshi's island (maybe not as the best stage but still). Overall it hurts his recovery even more than it does ours, shy guys always come up just in time to block PKT and we still can use the middle platform for shorthop Uairs and such. I think the pros outweight the cons for Zelda in this matchup.

Yoshis Island is a nuetral and screws over ness more than us, so Im leaning towards that.

I know Yoshi's Island in Brawl isn't good for Ness. For his recovery, if he's low enough, he can get gimped by the Platform Ghost.

Those flat walls don't exactly let Ness ride up on them but instead make him bounce off. The stage itself doesn't have a flat surface, so Ness would have to stay on the sides if he wanted to use his PK Fire.

This stage is your best bet. The Shyguys and cloud platform can really screw up his recovery, and, as stated above, when he hits the side of the stage he rebounds off of it, instead of riding up the side to the edge. Zelda can also make use of the center platform when the need arises.​

Other Good Stages:
Smashville
Neutrals In General​

Worst Stages:
Brinstar
Pirate Ship
Delfino​

Brinstar Summary:​

Brinstar: He's able to create fire pillars easily, the blast zones are closer which make his kill moves more dangerous. The acid also makes for a safer return in case something bad happens while he recovers.

Ness on Brinstar is a ****ing beast. Ban it, ban it, ban it! And RC is another I'd consider banning.

Fire pillars are no joke even with Naryu's, and if you get caught in one, you might as well say goodbye to your stock at high damage since 9/10 he'll grab you. Also with the way the bottom of the stage/ledge situation is, I guarantee you'll have to FW up through the bottom at some point, which leaves you completely vulnerable to any number of Ness's basically guaranteed kill moves (bthrow, bat -- hell, he might even be able to get a PKT2 off).

Lava saves his recovery, but it's not quite so beneficial to Zelda, especially with her light weight. The smaller size of the stage also helps Ness more than it helps us.... just a low ceiling would be fine, but all of Brinstar's blastlines are closer, allowing his bthrow, bat, bair, and uair kill at ridiculously low percentages compared to normal. Even dair can kill relatively early if it's on one of the upper platforms.

Especially... bthrow though.... *eye twitch*

I also don't think the platform layout is especially good for us, but, whatever, maybe I'm just biased against Brinstar.

^ This pretty much sums up the horrors of Brinstar O.o

Marth!

Best Stage:
Frigate Orpheon​

Detailed Summary:​

I like Frigate for its assymetrical layout and how it pretty much gives Zelda free LKs on his recovery on the right side of the stage's first part. Trip him on any platform for a lightning kick; the platforms are long, making the situation arise a little a more than, say, the tiny platforms on Battlefield.

2nd transformation is just your standard neutral - similar to halberd's layout as it flies. I can't really think of any benefits for her here except maybe ducking under his Fair camp game in the centre and of course the platform above... but that's it :?

so yeah tl;dr

• Right side of the stage is worse for him than us.
• Platform trips = lightning kick (nice long platforms). The situation is rare, but it's there for the kill when it comes.
  
• Assymetrical first layout - lots of places where he'll need to reposition his spacing, could increase the likelihood of mispaces.

That's just how I feel about the stage and Marth personally. I've evolved into Kaylo in the way this post was laid out ​

Because everytime you get a trip on a platform using dtilt, you can buffer a turn-around, drop through the platform and immediately sweetspot Bair them whilst they're in tripping stun. HSS will put a video up once our wiis register and I can send it to him. The situation can arise moreso on Frigate because the platforms are fairly large.

And the edge - Mars pretty much said it. Just sweetspot him as he lands. If he doesn't land, it means he hasn't made the stage and is about to SD.

Read this and your set. Although, Id like to add in the second transformation, the upwards slant in either side may set up potential LKs when spaced correctly.

Other Good Stages:
Smashville
Final Destination​

Worst Stages:
Battlefield
Lylat Cruise.​

Battlefield Summary:
Ok, there was quite a bit of conflict over the worst stages, and it truly shows that when facing Marth, some people are comfortable to one thing, and some are comfortable with the complete opposite. Though, this is what majority feels, and what I agree with:​

-The platforms, which usually are of great use to us, Marth can take advantage of so much better, especially with there being so many.​

-Gives the feeling of being claustraphobic, and when fighting Marth you need to feel in control and not "closed in" as this makes some people feel.​

-His can mixup his fair approaches using the platforms, or add in some bluffs/mindgames. ​

Those three basically apply for Lylat as well, except on the stage you can add in the fact that it ***** Zelda's recovery >_>​

However, keep in mind that when fighting Marth you may find a stage you feel more comfortable on, so for this matchup I encourage you to experiment, but this is a bad stage purely based off facts.​

Falco!

Best Stage:
Brinstar​

Detailed Summary:​

Since the stage isn't flat, it causes Falco's side+b to end with lag. Falco's recovery is going to get owned just as much as Zelda's since it's not a solid stage. Due to the destructible tendons attached to the side platforms, Zelda can roll all the way to the ledge to avoid Falco's lasers (which also causes mild stalement, if I'm correct).

When he does approach, the tendons will help Zelda's smash attacks linger out a bit longer. The only thing to look out for on this stage against Falco would be his smashes and Dair. Since it's a stage with a small ceiling and hardly any horizontal bases, his smash attacks can kill us easily. Dair will most likely be abused considering most Falco users spam that whenever they're forced to move into the air. Either that, or Bair, which I'm sure will be spammed as well due to all the jumping.

Overall, it does wreck Falco's major metagame, but that doesn't necessarily make him helpless. It just forces him to use the rest of his tactical smashes and aerials for an even quicker kill.

Rely on Downsmash to keep Falco spaced from you and Brinstar shouldn't be too bad of a choice for Zelda.

uneven terain can work really well for the hitboxes of her smashes.

It's a small stage that really prevents running away/camping.

platforms are nice to us.

multiple peices of desctructible terain can hold out zelda's smashes ar better than they do falco's.

to my knowledge, the uneven terain doesn't do favours for falco's ground game. I don't know that it particularly hurts it either, but it actually HELPS zelda most of the time.

Other Good Stages:
Castle Siege
Battlefield​

Worst Stages:
Final Destination
Jungle Japes​

Summary:
*pew pew pew* -Final Destination
Spike->Water *pew pew pew*- Jungle Japes​

Thats is all o_____o​

Best Stage:

Your Favorite xD​

Detailed Summary:

Well, lets face it. Mr. Game and Watch is Zelda's worst matchup. Almost anywhere you go, you're probably going to get *****. With that said, my suggestion is to just pick your most comfortable stage, or if you dont have one take him to neutral, since Zelda doesnt do too bad on any of them and they are always available.​

Other Good Stages:​

N/A​

Worst Stages:

Norfair​

Summary:​

In short, GaW can excel in aircamping and planking here, with there being so many platforms, ledges, and aerial combat. This as we know is Zelda's weakness, so it turns from a really hard matchup to an amazing embarressing matchup Not much else to say on GaW now, honestly you shouldnt be fighting him as Zelda anyway. ​

 

[zeldspazz]

Quick View​

This will simply state the character, the best stage, good stages, and the worst stages for a quick reference:​

Green: This stage is a starter stage, is always available
Yellow: Is a counter stage
Red: This stage is usually banned, but is still used in a few tournaments/scenarios​

Best Stage: Battlefield
Good Stages: Smashville, Castle Seige
Worst Stages: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair​

Best Stage: Battlefield
Good Stages: Luigis Mansion, Brinstar
Worst Stages: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium 1​

Best Stage: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Good Stages: Smashville
Worst Stages: Brinstar, Delfino, Pirate Ship​

Best Stage: Frigate Orpheon
Good Stages: Smashville, Final Destination
Worst Stages: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise​

Best Stage: Brinstar
Good Stages: Castle Siege, Battlefield
Worst Stages: Final Destination, Jungle Japes​

Best Stage: Your Favorite/Most Comfortable
Good Stages: N/A
Worst Stage: Norfar​

Best Stage:
Good Stages:
Worst Stage:​

 

[Kataefi]

Lol! this was your thread idea zeldspazz... I didn't force you! or did I?

Anyways this is lovely! I think you can go to other character boards and invite them to tell us about what stages do and don't hinder them. You can do this by visiting their social boards or any necessary thread and provide a link for them to go from there to here. It would be good if we synchronised the matchup discussions we're having with this thread actually.

Right now I say do MK (though he doesn't really have bad stages), and then move on to ness and pika, and from there we can synchronise. Those that we've missed can be done later. But you're the owner so it's your call.

Characters' general weaknesses are what we need to find out, and then we can apply stages that enhance those weaknesses. It won't be as simple as that... but you catch my drift...

 

[zeldspazz]

Thanks Kata if other people think your plan is good then we can do ness and pika next.

We are now open for business after that bizarre closing incident O.O

 

[Ochobobo]

Great thread, I can't wait to see what becomes of this!

Anyway, I think DarkMusician does best against Meta Knight when he fights on Battlefield. He seems to take advantage mostly from up-airing MK on the platforms.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

MK is tough because it's MK pretty hard to CP him. I would take him to final D or Yoshi's. I would avoid BF lylat delfinio RC brinstar and halberd. Castle seige may be your best CP and PS1 may be alright. Also lylat is a neutral.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I personally hate flat stages for MK. You need some kind of protection. MK is a battle won by being smart, not by your characters moveset (unless you're MK). If you know how to use stages, I saw smashville (for it's low ceiling) and battlefield (for it's low platforms you can attack through).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing this thread grow. Hopefully we can get a decent zelda guide going soon.

 

[Kataefi]

The way I see it at the moment - MK is the best gimper... he'll place Zelda in plenty of complicated gimping situations as she recovers.

Stages like Frigate and Lylat I think are huuuge no-nos simply because Zelda can't take the ledge for safety... she'll almost always have to take the stage and MK can rinse and repeat his edgeguard options. I think PKS1 could also fit into the no-no category, for the ledge reasons.

edit:: as far as neutrals go... I'd probably just go battlefield like everyone has mentioned.

 

[GodAtHand]

My personal favorites for fighting metas are Battlefield and Smashville.

 

[zeldspazz]

Ok, well I think I should contribute to my own thread. This is my thought process:

What are Metaknight's weaknesses:

-His light weight
-His ground game is inferior to his air game.

So, what is a stage the has smalli-ish blast zones so Zelda can kill him early, and keeps him on the ground a lot?

Personally, I think Yoshi's Island Pipes is perfect.

Lets see:

-The small blast zones cause for early kills, especially off the top where Zelda is much superior to Metaknight in.
-The sides cause setups for Lightning Kicks, causing horizontal KOs
-The boxes are huge IMO. They set up for nairs, and uairs, and they give the illusion that your are boxed in, so Metaknight will have to feel like he should stay grounded due to there being not much space between the boxes and the ground. IMO, Zelda ground game is better than Metaknights, so this may be to her advantage.
-Since Metaknight main way to kill is horizontally, the sides of the stage cause for teching oppurtunities to help you live longer.
-The boxes on the ground can cause for very situational, but possible, dair spikes.

This is what i think Also, legendary, do you have any reasons behind your responses?

Nice responses, battfield looks pretty popular atm, thatll probably end up being better since my stage choice is counter/banned.

 

[GodAtHand]

Should we first come to an agreement on what stages are universally legal and counterpickable? I know in my area Yoshi's island pipes is banned. I can get a list of what stages are allowed at tournaments in the area, and everyone else can do the same, so we can check to see what stages we should consider in this discussion.

 

[Ochobobo]

Yoshi's Island Pipes is one of my favorite Zelda stages. Too bad it's banned though.... lol

 

[zeldspazz]

I just copied the stages from the Stage Discussion thread here, but Im tihnking we your right we probably should

 

[Kataefi]

I thought yoshi's pipes was counter/banned?

I think it's pretty much up to the TO... and most TOs ban it.

 

[GodAtHand]

At our huge tournament called SNES. These are the stages.

Neutral: (FLYBS)
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Smashville

Counterpick Stages:
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Battleship Halberd
Castle Siege
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon stadium

 

[zeldspazz]

I checked, its counter/banned, so technically we can still consider it if you'd like

Edit: So godathand are you saying we should only use those stages?

 

[GodAtHand]

Not quite, I am just saying that if the people on this thread all post there local ruleset we could make a list of ones that matter to us (The Zeldas). I would hate for some of our best decided stages be not allowed at tournaments for the majority of us.

 

[zeldspazz]

Not quite, I am just saying that if the people on this thread all post there local ruleset we could make a list of ones that matter to us (The Zeldas). I would hate for some of our best decided stages be not allowed at tournaments for the majority of us.

Sounds like a plan, cus Luigis Mansion is in counter/banned too and thats a great stage for us >.<

 

[GodAtHand]

Yah and it is definitely banned in the large majority of tournaments...

 

[KayLo!]

GodAtHand, I'll be at SNES. As long as my crew and I figure out our transportation/housing, lol.

Anyways, these are generally the stages that're legal in PA:

Neutrals:

Yoshi's Island
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Lylat Cruise

Counterpicks:

Halberd
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise

"Meh" stages that are sometimes/usually banned but could be considered:

Pokemon Stadium 2
Jungle Japes
Norfair

 

[Kataefi]

Wow quite a few are banned in your regions. Mine is:

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

 

[zeldspazz]

Neutral:

* Final Destination
* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Story
* Smashville
* Lylat

Stages for Counterpick:

* Delfino Plaza
* Frigate Orpheon
* Battleship Halberd
* Castle Siege
* Rainbow Cruise
* Brinstar
* Pokemon Stadium 1

Banned Stages:

*Everything Else

These are the rules around the NY-PA area I believe. Looks about the same as you guys, I think if both players agree on a banned stage though, they are allowed to use it.

So far Im thinking Kaylos list inclusding the "Meh" stages since they are on Kata's list too

 

[KayLo!]

These are the rules around the NY-PA area I believe. Looks about the same as you guys, I think if both players agree on a banned stage though, they are allowed to use it.

Trufax. I had a guy agree to go to Luigi's Mansion in tournament even though it was banned.... so I went Zelda and won.

I've also had people agree to PS2 when it's tourney-banned.

 

[zeldspazz]

So should we add like a "usually banned, but still possible" part to the stage list with like Japes, Luigis Mansion, PS2, etc?

 

[SinkingHigher]

I hate Lylat for zelda. Her recovery is bad enough as it is. That stage will kill you more than MK does.

STAY AWAAYYYY.

The only other stage on zeldspazz' list I'd consider is frigate orpheon because im incredibly comfortable with it while not many other people are. He can **** you especially well in castle siege, rainbow cruise, lylat, and possible delfino.

I think we should do somethign a bit unorthodox here and discuss the stages that MKs will prefer in this matchup. While it's all well and good to know what we like, we REALLY need to know the stages HE likes.

lol KayLo, you're an attractive girl. I'm sure the people at tournies would let you play as MK after he (supposedly) gets banned...

...on Big Blue.

 

[zeldspazz]

The only other stage on zeldspazz' list I'd consider is frigate orpheon because im incredibly comfortable with it while not many other people are. He can **** you especially well in castle siege, rainbow cruise, lylat, and possible delfino.

I think we should do somethign a bit unorthodox here and discuss the stages that MKs will prefer in this matchup. While it's all well and good to know what we like, we REALLY need to know the stages HE likes.

1) Frigate is my favorite stage =) The thing is on the first transformation, the right side could be major gimping problem, but in the second part the slopes can mean lightning kick, the platform for nair, and the smallish KO zones doesnt sound to bad. I could agree with Frigate. Also the random platforms in the second part can help recovery if you can get to it quick enough

2) We will discuss his good stages, thats why I left a spot on the OP for bad stages to go to

 

[KayLo!]

So should we add like a "usually banned, but still possible" part to the stage list with like Japes, Luigis Mansion, PS2, etc?

I think that's a good idea. You could even color-code the different categories (starter, counter, usually banned but still possible, etc.) so that it makes the list in the second post easier to interpret.

I think we should do somethign a bit unorthodox here and discuss the stages that MKs will prefer in this matchup. While it's all well and good to know what we like, we REALLY need to know the stages HE likes.

Hehe, I thought we would already do that. XD I think we're discussing best and worst stages.

MK pretty much does well on any stage, but he'll probably try to take advantage of Zelda's bad recovery unless he's afraid you'll CP another character.

Rainbow Cruise and Halberd are really good MK stages.... so is Delfino. On the former, he can pull some really stupid stuff at the top of the screen (nado..... Shuttle Loop....), and on Halberd and Delfino, he can stall underneath the stage and shark from below.

EDIT: Rofl, SiHi, I've had guys offer to throw sets if I agreed to go on a date with them. *facepalm* But I think it's just because I have boobies, not me in particular. =X

 

[zeldspazz]

I will update the OP now and Ill see what you guys think

Oh and I also agree that rainbow cruise is a HUGE no-no to bring Metaknight.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah sinking I agree... we need to be in the humble spirit of the counterpick system for stages

We need to talk about the stages we need to ban from MK (his best ones against Zelda), the stages we need to counterpick (our best ones), and something else, because good things come in three's =D

 

[zeldspazz]

Hows that guys?

 

[KayLo!]

Looks good to me.

 

[SinkingHigher]

something else

The stages zelda does bad on?

The only way to get better is to work on your short comings while maintaining your strengths.

Are we talking about a certain stage in particular here now?

____

Haha Kaylo, that might be true but you're still good looking. I hope you don't think otherwise.

I warn you not to come near the Link chat. They're INCREDIBLY horny and INCREDIBLY nerdy. Not a good combination. They're quite funny though.

 

[zeldspazz]

Sihi what do you think of Frigate Orpheon, thats my vote for right now. Do you still tihnk its good even though the first transformation is gimptastic?

 

[KayLo!]

The only Link player I really know is Mari, and she quit recently. Sadface.

This is my general summary of stages for MK:

Best stages (ones to CP): Battlefield (relatively small, can take advantage of platform cover), Smashville (no particular advantage, but it's very neutral, which is better than being at a disadvantage)

Castle Siege is also pretty okay. I wouldn't CP it, necessarily, but if you know the stage very well, Zelda can do all right there.

Worst stages (ones to consider banning): Delfino Plaza (he has an easy time planking/stalling under the stage and sharking from below), Halberd (see: Delfino), Rainbow Cruise (nado shenanigans at the top, and Shuttle Loop will kill you so early), Norfair (he'll plank your life away)

I'm not sure what the "something else" should be, hehe, but in general, you want to avoid places where MK can plank, shark, and live forever. Smaller stages are better since Zelda needs to kill him early, but anywhere he can pull tricks to kill you early (see: Rainbow Cruise) is a poor choice.

MK doesn't do badly on any stage, so I'd stick to Zelda's best neutrals. It won't give you any kind of advantage, but it's better than going somewhere gimpy.

 

[sasook]

The only Link player I really know is Mari, and she quit recently. Sadface.

WHAAAATTTTT

Nuuuu. ;-;

Why'd she quit?

Also, you forgot meh? D:

Btw that comment was sorta random. Where'd it come from lol?



On topic: What do you guys think of Brinstar? Low blast zones there ^_^

 

[Lawz.]

The only Link player I really know is Mari, and she quit recently. Sadface.

I go to PA/NJ tournaments frequently. I don't think i've seen you go to tournaments that often, only people like chibo, dotcom, xzax, and vex.

EDIT: sorry for getting off topic ^_^ just lurking

 

[KayLo!]

Btw that comment was sorta random. Where'd it come from lol?

This:

I warn you not to come near the Link chat. They're INCREDIBLY horny and INCREDIBLY nerdy. Not a good combination. They're quite funny though.

Also:

Why'd she quit?

Her AiB blog post explaining why she quit: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=30842

On topic: What do you guys think of Brinstar? Low blast zones there ^_^

Brinstar is very meh for me. Maybe I just don't like it because it's Pika's worst stage, but between the crampedness, lava, and moveable parts, it just feels really... claustrophobic. You'll have a really hard time getting away from MK if he's all over you.

@Lawz: I haven't been to a tournament in a while. That's probably why. Plus there haven't been any Philly tournaments in a long time, lol, and Jersey is too far away.... I got **** to do on the weekend. I'm going to SNES, though, and Chibo is starting Drexel biweeklies up again pretty soon. I'll be at most of those.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I hate hate hate brinstar.

The platforms are too high for you to be able to smash or tilt through them. You can probably u-air which is good but you can do that on any stage with platforms.

The strange ledges seem to be kind hard to grab and if mk decides to split the stage while you're below with his jab you're dead. I can't do my signature FW spam mindgame because of the cramped/uneven stage.

I don't see anything good about this stage. I probably wouldn't ban it since there are worse stages, but I would certainly stay away from it.

So as not to be hypocritical:

As said, u-air through the stage/platforms can get you surprise KOs.

Use the three spaced platforms to keep yourself safe on the lower level with MK above you.

d-tilt > d-smash or just d-smash MK near the edge to KO making use of the close danger zones.

From the last point, don't din edgeguard from near the sides. MK isn't that far away so he'll probably punish you.

ledgedrop -fastfall aerials from the two side platforms to edgeguard or rack damage.

keep MK either on the top platform or on the edges of the stage.

 

[zeldspazz]

I dont think Brinstar would be a good stage against Metaknight. The ledges are like halberd, hard to sweetspot. The lava is annoying, you dont wanna be taking any unecessary damage against Meta anyway. As Sihi said, you cant do much with the platforms cus they're too high. Yes you can u-air through the bottom, but so can Meta and more efficiently cus he has multiple jumps. The only pluses I can tihnk of for Zelda are the small blast zones for early kills, and that you can attack some parts of the stage to refresh moves.