Zephramrill
Smash Lord
sliq you ****, come back to canada plz
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The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight
- Thread starter M3D
- Start date
- Status
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
WTF where did Drephen come from.
YUNq PHR3$H
Smash Journeyman
if mk gets banned then ic && ddd && falco's chaingrab ; && all spammers should be banned if yu ask me = /
If mk leaves dass like a hooe wiff no money
If mk leaves dass like a hooe wiff no money
Zephramrill
Smash Lord
im sorry what?If mk leaves dass like a hooe wiff no money
fsdfsdgsgdf
Smash Champion
learn ebonics
Rogue Pit
Smash Lord
Im sorry im not really understanding this. MK isnt banned for what reasons?
The MC Clusky
Smash Lord
Gee ummm democracy is one reason. It was a 3 to 1 vote to not ban him.
Just because he has 6:4 in every match up doesn't make him broken. Characters that are better than him exist in other fighters and the talk of a ban hasn't come up in those communities either.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
If MetaKnight did have a 6:4 in every matchup (he doesn't) then he is completely broken. It would make 0 sense for anyone to not play MetaKnight since they automatically have the matchup advantage over every single possible character in the game when every other character has some sort of weakness.
The problem is - I mentioned it in other threads before - that match-up ratios are pretty stupid, since they only show how likely it is for a character to win but not how hard it is to actually do it(or at least ... that factor gets lost somehow). It's not a contradiction even if it sounds like one.
An example would be the Marth vs MK match-up: While most competitive/notable players agree that it's 6/4 in MKs favour, it would still be false to say that Marth is an "easy" match-up for MK. A 4/6 disadvantage is not unwinnable in the slightest - Marth's chances to win are absolutely realistic and even if he does have the disadvantage the MK player has to put a lot of effort into the match to actually beat a good Marth. So while MK does have the advantage over Marth, Marth still actually is a tough match-up for MK.
If you look at match-up ratios you can't see that really. For that reason, it is better to actually look at the difficulty of a specific opponent. Is he hard to defeat? This can be easily the case but that doesn't mean that you can't have the advantage. If you look at MKs match-up numbers he might seem to have almost only advantages but the truth is that he still has lots of hard match-up's. In fact, all match-up's that aren't higher than 6/4 can be considered tough match-up's. In MKs case there are lots of 6/4 match-up's but most of them are hard. MK has lots of hard match-up's:
Snake, King Dedede, G&W, Falco, ROB, Marth, Wario, Lucario, DK, Diddy Kong, Kirby, Zero Suit Samus, Olimar, Toon Link, Bowser and Luigi;
Hype
Smash Lord
I wouldn't use the word democracy since only SBR members could vote.
And thank god for that. If everyone and their dog were allowed to vote then the tournament standard would be items on and Pictochat.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Pictochat is an SBR counterpick.
No ****, my point exactly.
i dont know how i actually missed this thread but now it means that no one is going to eventually play any character but mk.. whats the point? if you play someone else whos amazing and equally good and they play mk you'll lose..
guess i should start training my mk...........
guess i should start training my mk...........
brinboy789
Smash Champion
when ally starts using MK competitively talk to me
Rogue Pit
Smash Lord
Actually it basically means if people with the same skill level play mk wins. Matchups are hard i understand but for someone who is really good to lose to someone whos skill level is below them is sad. The person not using mk needs to work much harder, and the mk has the constant luxury of always having the advantage. In melee your char can be CP'd and you need skill and knowledge to win. With mk your good, dont worry about being counterpicked and basically fight almost every match up the same. For someone to beat the mk you have to severely outplay them. Now lets justify this as being fair.
I mean m2k lost to NL so diddy is a counter mk is find. Also olimar can kill mk with usmash at 90% so mk isnt broken. Yoshi has a grab release on mk so yoshi is also a counter xD.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
That's not what defines a "tough match-up", it's what defines being a "soft counter".
What you seem to mean is that the match requires effort on MK's part.
Also, Marth's match-up is 65-35 MK, not 60-40.
BarakuDragon
Smash Cadet
*edit removed last post*
glad that there was a final decision about the mk thing i know i'm slow to post about it but i didn't read till now haha. It's great to hear about diddy to hope things can improve with him.
glad that there was a final decision about the mk thing i know i'm slow to post about it but i didn't read till now haha. It's great to hear about diddy to hope things can improve with him.
And when did that ever happen? Did Azen ever lose to a MK that's worse than him? He never loses to anybody except M2K, who just happens to be the best. Same with ChuDat...he still wins with Kirby.
I never seen it happen and there's no proof for this either.
MK does not always have the advantage.
Are you the same Rogue Pit, who is said to be one of the few really good Pit players? The way you sound ... it's very weird because a skilled player like you should actually know that you can CP MK and he doesn't have to play every match-up the same. I don't even know why you say this...
Stupid people are stupid. I have no idea why you bring up so narrow-minded stereotypes since I assume you know that it's not like that. Even if Diddy doesn't counter MK (which he obviously doesn't) MK still has to put tremendous efforts into the match in order to win.
Then either the match-up numbers or the definitions fail...
Winning a 6/4 match-up is not easy, softcounter or not.
Exactly. And it's enough effort to justify him not to be banned even if he does have only 6/4 match-up's.
No, it's not. It's 6/4.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
I don't even know what topic I'm in, but I saw Gheb was posting recently, so I came and read his post because Gheb is sexy.
Marth vs. MK is 6.4. Take it from me, who has tremendous experience in this match-up.
Marth vs. MK is 6.4. Take it from me, who has tremendous experience in this match-up.
Anth0ny
Smash Master
I dunno...I'd definitely be leaning more towards 65-35. Maybe you're really good at the matchup, but facts are facts. MK outranges Marth with most attacks, and gimps him like a little *****.
It's definitely a winnable matchup for Marth, so I wouldn't say 70-30, but it's a little more than a small counter for MK IMO.
I totally agree with U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Soft counter means that the match-up is significantly in one character's advantage, there's a quite noticeable between the character's ability.
Hard counter means that almost no effort is required to win.
"Tough" in competitive terms refers to match-ups that are actual disadvantages to the character in question.
Unless you're talking in relative terms, because 6-4 is tough relative to a lot of his match-ups.
Rather then trying to redefine terms in ways that irk people, just say what you mean, 6/4 match-ups are close enough that MK has to play well to win.
Lol, you're know we're both part of the "mk should not be banned" group.
Really, my only point was to put what I know you were trying to say in terms that people aren't gonna jump down your throat for.
Yes, Gheb is sexy, but that's not relevant.
Fair enough.
But, lol, you know I don't take it from anyone at face value (or you SHOULD know), but your opinion definitely carries enough weight for me to reconsider. I'll look over the match-up again.
Btw. how come all the cool people in NJ are from Teaneck? (just noticed your location and I happen to have friends from the area)
jorgen aune
Smash Cadet
When you fase a MK, make it a mirror-match. Allways keep yourself at least average with MK. If you main Snake i think you would have no problem tilt him away, both to rack up damage and kO. The problem facing a MK lies within the spacing, gimping and egdeguarding.
G1G4 G0N0RRH34
Smash Journeyman
if EVERYONE used MK for dittos, then if they win they would realize that MK is a better character than their main, use MK more if not for every matchup, and the plague would just spread.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Having 6/4 matchups is still too close to consider anyone bannable... that'd more or less make them just really good moreso than broken.
Also there are still matchups that are in dire need of study. No-one should really be declaring "MK goes #/# vs X" until we have conclusive details on the matchup.
Also there are still matchups that are in dire need of study. No-one should really be declaring "MK goes #/# vs X" until we have conclusive details on the matchup.
Someone remind me of the last time M2K lost to an MK...
Because at that C3 tournament at the end of Nov he lost 1 game to Azen's Diddy and a set to Ninjalink's Diddy Kong. Azen also took a game off of DSF's MK using Diddy. This isn't even mentioning all the other characters either that have had success (against M2K/other good MK's).
Because at that C3 tournament at the end of Nov he lost 1 game to Azen's Diddy and a set to Ninjalink's Diddy Kong. Azen also took a game off of DSF's MK using Diddy. This isn't even mentioning all the other characters either that have had success (against M2K/other good MK's).
Dojo
Smash Champion
I asked him about that. He said that he has never lost an MK ditto set in tourney.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Atomsk has taken games with Dedede and Olimar.
Keitaro took a game with Falco.
Azen has taken a set from Mew2King with Lucario.
I can't even recall Mew2King losing an MK ditto match, let alone a set.
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
He never lost a MK ditto....... wow.............. ummmmmmmmmmm, that's crazy
MorpheusVGX
Smash Journeyman
Based purely on statistics you have no chance winning a tournament with M2K in attendance if you choose to use MK. Choosing a character other than MK at least gives you a fragment of hope.
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
So instead if banning MK, we should ban M2K. That sounds like it could work
edit: but he probably would still find a way too win lol
Affinity
Smash Hero
lol His D3 would still wreck.So instead if banning MK, we should ban M2K. That sounds like it could work
edit: but he probably would still find a way too win lol
fsdfsdgsgdf
Smash Champion
He will just go back to D3
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
Just imagine if he learned how to use captain falcon......... he would still **** like crazy
fsdfsdgsgdf
Smash Champion
New tier list is up.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
I think he meant "ban M2K period" lol
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Nah trick. I never lose to Dedede.
I haven't lost to Atomsk's for a long time. I beat Seibrik and CO18(very badly) 2-0 in money matches and Hungrybox 3-0 and I twostocked Basic Sausage twice in tourny two days ago. I need to get at some West Coast Dededes soon.
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