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The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

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Ignatius

List Evader
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
5,517
The wi-fi on brawl sucks, the people use MK like hell now since they found out he's not banned, thanks a lot SBR. You just made Brawl a lot more gayer than it was before.
Not the wifi! What have we done?!?

This isn't an ignorant post because I know people that went over to maining MK just because he wasn't banned. :| I know it's a stupid thing to do but some people did it and that's why I'm saying that the SBR just made the situation worse. I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't have any backbone in the argument.
.
And tons of low level tournament players switched to Marth/Fox/Shiek/Falco. Players tend to pick characters that they have a good chance to win with. It just makes sense to play characters that have a better chance at winning.
 

yelocakeffect

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
5
Meta Knight should not be banned, but...

I said it once and I’ll say it again, but it always falls on deaf ears. Meta Knight, ROB, and Snake are “NOT” broken characters, nor are they cheap. The problem lies in the fact that the so-called “pros” and wannabe pros keep playing Smash Bros. As if it where a Street Fighter game. SSBB is “NOT” like a Street Fighter or KOF game, characters are allowed to consistently evolve as more and more mysteries are discovered as time passes.

A problem I face at Game FAQs is everyone wanting to play 1vs1 with items off and neutral stages. They insist on this standard of play, over… and over, and over, …and over, and over again. Not only do I find this boring and repetitive, I also find it cheap and unfair. If a person keeps main-ing MK, and I like using Ike or DDD, I’m automatically at a disadvantage. All MK has to do is apply spamable unskilled pressure on my slow to start-up character until I am dead.

A flat level means no place to retaliate, no place to turn the tables, no place to run, no place to set traps, no place for miracle recoveries, and no way to stall. With my weak recovery with Ike, a knock-away is pretty much the end of me; if we where on a more complex level, or we had extraneous variables involved, his victory would not be so easily guaranteed. Playing Brawl the Game FAQs way is like watching a Jackie Chan flick with him fighting in an empty room; uninspiring and imbalanced.

Out of all the tutorials I’ve seen on character usage and development, not once have I seen a tutorial on character priority and escapes concerning items, such as bats, laser-swords, pitfalls, bombs, springs, bouncers etc. It’s like the entire community has forgotten that the strengths and weaknesses of certain characters increase or decrease when items and environment are involved.

I would love to see Meta Knights sword spamming serve him well on levels where bombs slide down pipes. When his lack of lag places him in a tough spot concerning smart bombs. How about the classic Mario bros. Level with the one hit kill turtle shells and crabs. It’s like everyone has forgotten what SSBB is all about. I’m not saying I am against 1vs1 no items match. They have their place, but that setting should NEVER be a standard.

If everyone here was honest with themselves they would realize the on certain levels of play, about 20% of the moves certain characters have become unusable on neutral stages. Another 20% of characters moves become unusable when items are tuned off, leaving them with only 60% or less of their entire move-list. This is about average for some, but worse for others. Now consider this flaw, and then the tendency some players have to spam. Who can blame them when nearly half their move list is missing?

Playing the “so-called” pro standard is like using Naruto’s amateur Rasengan on a member of Akatsuki. With no environmental distractions or traps to set up, most straightforward moves are easily punished and therefore become unusable. I really don’t see how everyone thinks this is ok. Anyone who plays with items on is automatically a noob or gets rejected by the community, when that in fact is the start setting of the game in the first place.

What about stamina matches? What about grab the coin matches? What about the elements that keep the players guessing? No wonder MK has become a problem. You’re not playing the game the way it’s supposed to be played. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe a characters smash attack makes up for their lack of overall play, or maybe a characters small size makes it easier for them to maneuver in tight situations? What about players who have skills in paying attention to detail rather then lightning reflexes?

The answer is this, what’s broken is your playing style, not MK. :p

-Shaum-
 

Smooth Criminal

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Wow.

Great that you have an opinion. But, uh, this is definitely the wrong place for it. Considering the nature of the topic, geared as it is towards tournament players and whatnot.

And the Naruto reference was ****ing dumb, fyi.

Edit: Oh, and "the heart of Smash" is to play it however the hell you want to play it. Just like every other video game in existence.

Smooth Criminal
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
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Who the hell said ROB was broken? lol

Everygame has a certain character(s) that are broken. People just deal with it.
ROB's broken? Since when?

And yeah, Suspect. You nailed it right on the head. There are ridiculously good characters in nearly every "fighting" game in existence.

Smooth Criminal
 

NinjaLink

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
3,785
Location
Brooklyn, NY
NNID
NinjaLink
Wow ppl didnt kno olimar can grab MK out the tornado. Actually everyone could....if u have godly timing. I grabbed the tornado with bowser sometimes. Pretty funny.
 

fsdfsdgsgdf

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
2,073
Location
Cosmo Canyon
Cause god knows people who post on gamefaqs don't play in tournies....*gimpy, hylian, chillin, cort, m2k, me, kal, xan, oh so many people*
 

The MC Clusky

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
1,525
Location
San Antonio, TX
3DS FC
0404-6991-4531
Also, people shouldn't be getting upset over Metaknight being allowed. It's unfair to the people that choose to play him to have to use a different character.

It's like :

John: Your main is Metaknight, but we got tired of losing to him so you can't use him anymore Tom.

Tom: Ummm well **** that's the character I've been playing the most with, and now I have to change because..... you can't beat it?

John: Yes.

OR

John: You're only using Metaknight to win!

Tom: Well, if I don't win, then I'm just throwing my money away to the top 3. Should I be doing that?

John: Umm... well.... you should use someone else!

Tom: Why?

FAIL.

Metaknight isn't unfair. It's banning someone's character that unfair.
 

mimic_king

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,002
Banning Meta Knight really is unfair. Although I want him to be banned, I realize that it isn't a good idea. People thought about banning Snake at first, but now the thought of banning Snake is completely out of the question.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
And this just reminds me about the existence of scrubs.

Arbitrarily defined manliness, even worse then playing for fun, at least we can argue the subjectivity of fun (and as far as I'm concerned, and I think most of you would agree, what's fun is no holds barred, completely skill oriented matches, with no limits placed on them except what is absolutely necessary).

But this definition of manliness (in addition to being unmanly, anyone on the Marth boards knows why Marth should top any tier list of manliness) flies in the face of everything that skill-based gaming stands for? Manly endings being more important then winning? No edge-hogging? Pikmanless Olimar?

Seriously, no.


It's mad funny though, though I shudder to think that that some people actually take it seriously.
 

Ace Of Flames

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
179
also, People Shouldn't Be Getting Upset Over Metaknight Being Allowed. It's Unfair To The People That Choose To Play Him To Have To Use A Different Character.

It's Like :

John: Your Main Is Metaknight, But We Got Tired Of Losing To Him So You Can't Use Him Anymore Tom.

Tom: Ummm Well **** That's The Character I've Been Playing The Most With, And Now I Have To Change Because..... You Can't Beat It?

John: Yes.

Or

John: You're Only Using Metaknight To Win!

Tom: Well, If I Don't Win, Then I'm Just Throwing My Money Away To The Top 3. Should I Be Doing That?

John: Umm... Well.... You Should Use Someone Else!

Tom: Why?

Fail.

Metaknight Isn't Unfair. It's Banning Someone's Character That Unfair.
Thank You!
 

Mr. Rogu

Smash Ace
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
607
Location
Cruisin in my Jeep.. I wish.
Also, people shouldn't be getting upset over Metaknight being allowed. It's unfair to the people that choose to play him to have to use a different character.

It's like :

John: Your main is Metaknight, but we got tired of losing to him so you can't use him anymore Tom.

Tom: Ummm well **** that's the character I've been playing the most with, and now I have to change because..... you can't beat it?

John: Yes.

OR

John: You're only using Metaknight to win!

Tom: Well, if I don't win, then I'm just throwing my money away to the top 3. Should I be doing that?

John: Umm... well.... you should use someone else!

Tom: Why?

FAIL.

Metaknight isn't unfair. It's banning someone's character that unfair.

its not for the actual good meta knight players but for the spamming ones, which are most of them. (cough only using torando and shuttle loop, cough) you pretty much cant beat that kind of spam.
 

Red the Ghost

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
NC
You guys finally decided on this, eh?
Good choice. Banning Metaknight was an absurd idea, even to this one, who doesn't play Brawl. xD
 

Crackle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
497
Location
UCLA
NNID
ZZZobac
Can't wait till the day comes that Marth's matchup with Metaknight will count as 45-55 or neutral.
 

Redthorn21

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
22
There is already a few characters who can play well agianst MK like Diddy and Yoshi, but still MK is way to overpowered and there is no way MK will be out the top tier or even on the same level as the others.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
I said it once and I’ll say it again, but it always falls on deaf ears. Meta Knight, ROB, and Snake are “NOT” broken characters, nor are they cheap.
Agreed.

The problem lies in the fact that the so-called “pros” and wannabe pros keep playing Smash Bros. As if it where a Street Fighter game.
I'm not sure what you are trying to imply here. Try to be more clear. Also, saying so-called "pros" makes you look like a pretentious douche. People can play the game however they want. No one is forcing you to play like it's Street Fighter...whatever that means.

SSBB is “NOT” like a Street Fighter or KOF game, characters are allowed to consistently evolve as more and more mysteries are discovered as time passes.
This is a very arrogant remark, claiming that these characters from other games do not evolve. You act as if you are a top player for these games, when you are a top player in nothing. You are severely misinformed, making it hard to take you seriously.

A problem I face at Game FAQs is everyone wanting to play 1vs1 with items off and neutral stages. They insist on this standard of play, over… and over, and over, …and over, and over again.
That is because this is the setting used for almost all Brawl tournaments. Some people use online to prepare for tournaments with the aim of testing their ability and moving as far into the bracket as they can.

Not only do I find this boring and repetitive
Then don't play this way. I find it boring when random **** happens, and winning is left up to chance. There is no incentive to play well, and no reward for doing so. However, I'm not going to pass judgment on this style of play, because there are different strokes for different folks. I mean, I could be a a scrub and judge others, but there is no point in it since I'll look like a jackass.

I also find it cheap and unfair.
Wait, so characters aren't cheap and annoying, but playing a certain way is? Are you some kind of moron? That's very elitist of you to pass down judgment here and there.

Anyone that says anything is cheap or unfair is inherently a scrub.

If a person keeps main-ing MK, and I like using Ike or DDD, I’m automatically at a disadvantage.
Blame the programmers for making MK considerably better than the characters you like. Also, certain characters are always worse then others. It is a staple of the fighting game genre. Get over it, and play better than your opponent.

All MK has to do is apply spamable unskilled pressure on my slow to start-up character until I am dead.
Yes, it is easier to win with a better character, meaning you need less skill to play a higher tier character more proficiently. However, if you are good enough, it doesn't matter which character you play. Once again, blame the developers for an unbalanced game or yourself for sucking. I've beaten MK with Bowser. I'm also not a scrubby dolt.

A flat level means no place to retaliate, no place to turn the tables, no place to run, no place to set traps, no place for miracle recoveries, and no way to stall.
How so? Explain yourself, don't just make unsupported claims. I learned about this in 9th grade, for gods sake.

Regardless, you are wrong. If you need to rely on the stage to do the work for you then that makes you bad.

Furthermore, not every match is played on FD.

With my weak recovery with Ike, a knock-away is pretty much the end of me; if we where on a more complex level, or we had extraneous variables involved, his victory would not be so easily guaranteed.
Ike's recovery is only weak if you can't DI worth ****, and since you are a noob, you probably don't know what DI is.

Actually, his victory wouldn't be guaranteed if Ike wasn't bad (developers fault), or if you weren't bad (your fault).

Playing Brawl the Game FAQs way is like watching a Jackie Chan flick with him fighting in an empty room; uninspiring and imbalanced.
Your analogy is faulty. Playing your way is like watching a Boxing match and randomly a gun falls into the ring. Look at me, I can make ******** analogies too.


Out of all the tutorials I’ve seen on character usage and development, not once have I seen a tutorial on character priority and escapes concerning items, such as bats, laser-swords, pitfalls, bombs, springs, bouncers etc.
That's because tournaments do not have items on, and the people that dedicate themselves to becoming better at the game do so to enter tournaments.

It’s like the entire community has forgotten that the strengths and weaknesses of certain characters increase or decrease when items and environment are involved.
Not the entire community, just the entire organized tournament community. Also, no character becomes worse when they are given an item, therefor there is no drawback for obtaining an item.

I would love to see Meta Knights sword spamming serve him well on levels where bombs slide down pipes.
This isn't a test of skill, and regardless, the vindictive pleasure you would get from watching a character you don't like lose has no impact on the metagame. If you are going to argue, try to make some valid points, lest you waste our time.

When his lack of lag places him in a tough spot concerning smart bombs.
This makes no sense. Having no lag on moves will never leave a character at a disadvantage. You are a very silly individual.


How about the classic Mario bros. Level with the one hit kill turtle shells and crabs.
This stage only tests your ability to pick up and throw **** at your opponent, and is not the skill set that most people want to test in tournament.


It’s like everyone has forgotten what SSBB is all about. I’m not saying I am against 1vs1 no items match. They have their place, but that setting should NEVER be a standard.
What is SSBB about? I hadn't realized you were the Lord of SSBB, handing down commandments for what is and is not allowed gameplay wise. Oh wait, you aren't. Your just a person. A very narrow minded person who happens to be very arrogant and very ignorant.

"You guys are playing the game wrong while I, the most perfect being in existence, am playing it right! I can't begin to fathom with my perfect mind how these series of events could possibly unfold, besides the whole evolution of the tournament scene that occurred from 2001 to now, with tournaments originally having items ON until they were deemed over powered and far too random. Oh woe is me! Time for me to fix this with a singular post on an internet forum dedicated to tournament play without any sort of research into the subject and with a large bag of preconceived (wrong) notions of what is and is not right. Watch out, internet, my weak grasp on making legitimate arguments is going to bring you to your KNEES! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Also, it isn't the standard. It is the standard for tournaments.


If everyone here was honest with themselves they would realize the on certain levels of play, about 20% of the moves certain characters have become unusable on neutral stages.
Developers fault. Maybe they should stop making useless moves and try to actually balance the game, as opposed to jamming a bunch of fanservice into the game and then spending the rest of the development time making a lame adventure mode. If they did that, they might've had some time left over to make a non-**** version of online play.


FANSERVICE! BEWBIES MAKES VIDJAGAMES BETTAR!

Also, would you care to name any of these moves? Seeing as how you've had no idea what you've been talking about so far, I assumed you don't have any idea what you are talking about in this instance, as well.

Another 20% of characters moves become unusable when items are tuned off


Are you drunk?

leaving them with only 60% or less of their entire move-list.
GADZOOKS! An unbalanced fighting game where some moves are better than others!? *Kills self out of SHEAR AWE*

This is about average for some, but worse for others. Now consider this flaw, and then the tendency some players have to spam. Who can blame them when nearly half their move list is missing?
You, apparently.

Playing the “so-called” pro standard is like using Naruto’s amateur Rasengan on a member of Akatsuki.
You automatically lose all validity for using NARUTO to prove ANY sort of point, unless that point is how much Naruto sucks. That is the one exception to the rule.

Also, your analogy is faulty, and draws no parallels.


With no environmental distractions or traps to set up, most straightforward moves are easily punished and therefore become unusable.
Unless you're crafty enough to trick your opponent into doing something or reading their movements. You know, if you're good.

I really don’t see how everyone thinks this is ok.
Everyone knows better because they aren't misinformed smacktards.


Anyone who plays with items on is automatically a noob or gets rejected by the community, when that in fact is the start setting of the game in the first place.
No, anyone who plays with items on is either a newbie or someone ******* around. You have to take it to the next level of ignorance to be called a noob, something you've managed to do with very little effort.

Also, the starting setting for the game also has characters and stages missing, and the default setting is a 2 minute time match. Kill yourself, you've got no chops.


What about stamina matches? What about grab the coin matches?
What about them?

What about the elements that keep the players guessing?
You mean like actively deceiving and reading your opponent? Oh wait, that's right, you're bad.

You’re not playing the game the way it’s supposed to be played.
Oh ****, Sakurai is posting on Smashboards! What an honor!

Who are you to tell me that we aren't playing "right?" You're no better than anyone else, you elitist ********. I hope you pull your head out of your *** before you choke on your own arrogance and become just another scrubby statistic.

Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe a characters smash attack makes up for their lack of overall play
I assume you mean Final Smashes, which spawn closer to the character who is doing the worse, which is not conducive of tournament play. The worse player shouldn't be rewarded for playing badly. That makes no sense.

or maybe a characters small size makes it easier for them to maneuver in tight situations?
WTF are you talking about? Seriously.

What about players who have skills in paying attention to detail rather then lightning reflexes?
They are good. What point are you trying to prove, that people that are good are good? You're dumb is making my eyes bleed.



The answer is this, what’s broken is your playing style, not MK.
I have a feeling you don't realize you that you went off an a huge tangent that has nothing to do with anything.

If there was a just God, lightning would strike your computer and glass shrapnel would fly into your eyes, blinding you permanently.



My work is done here.
 
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