zelda/sheik will have the highest bump
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The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Shaya
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YagamiLight
Smash Champion
If I announce said plan to a large group of people then you can rest assured that, even if everything else goes awry, that one plan is going to see fruition.
This isn't Life Skills 101 but as a general rule reliability is a very solid trait for anyone to have. It's useful in all echelons of life from the high (international diplomacy) to the low (drug deals).
Good thing to keep in mind, anyway. Knowledge and power mean nothing if there's no reliability backing it up.
That's all nice, but the reality of the fact is that life isn't as good as we wish it to be. Eventually, even schedules will have problems being done on time, and it always happens everywhere. Granted, when a tier list is 6 months overdue, there's obviously a very wrong problem, but this time the estimation was made, and so far there's been no reasons to doubt its completion before the estimation deadline (sep30).
We SHOULD always strive for perfection, but if the ones you can't control don't meet up to expectations, all you can do is hope that next time they do better, or get replacements. Both the former and the latter are happening, after the tier list there'll be yet another mass admittance/purging, so expect the BBR to get in shape eventually.
I wish I could mention things that made the BBR's projects delay a bit, but you all know the drill.
GTZ
Smash Ace
Holy Crap!!! It's been a looooonnnnnggg time since I have seen a tier list. Like When KDJ won that tournament in NYC when Brawl was first released. I see a whole lot of characters have changed positions on the tier. I have never allowed the tier list to delegate my personal character choices, however, it provides a useful and helpful insight. I have always respected the effort put into this, and also am a fan of the fact that us smashers can change this tier list by winning/losing/etc. Keep up the good work guys and Thanks for the information.. [news travels slow with no internet]
Posting Lists is fairly quick. What ensues afterwards is what takes up most of the time.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
I didn't tell him to say that
Neither did the BR
As far as I am aware
This tier list might have come out a bit fast (not creation time wise but time gap from last list to this one). I actually thought we were gonna release one after the MLG season was over.
Neither did the BR
As far as I am aware
This tier list might have come out a bit fast (not creation time wise but time gap from last list to this one). I actually thought we were gonna release one after the MLG season was over.
Albert.
Smash Master
It's funny how when some people get admitted into the BBR they get so proud that they find ways to talk about it all of the time.
"Well I can't really say anything about.... But I'm gonna wave it in your face, just in case you didn't know, YEAH IM BBR!!!
"Well I can't really say anything about.... But I'm gonna wave it in your face, just in case you didn't know, YEAH IM BBR!!!
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yeah, I felt that would've been the reasonable/presumed time to release the list. Then again, I guess we're kinda conditioned by the looooong wait between the third and fourth list lol (at least it felt rather long).
*Inserts joke about Congress/other legislative-ish forms of government*
GTZ
Smash Ace
hmm... just how much influence does the BBR have on the tier list vs. the tournaments results?
Browny
Smash Hater
entirely... results can only alter their opinions but have no direct effect on the list at all.
GTZ
Smash Ace
you've got to be [bleeping] kidding right? hmm, well it doesn't necessarily make it a wrong thing to use. For example, at any given moment, the tier list could be dis-proven because of player variations and character variations. A noob with MK losing to a very good captain falcon, so delegation is necessary but the tournament results should STRONGLY affect the tier list, not just slightly... I'm 50/50 with it all.. that's kind of annoying though..
- then again, what noob in a tournament would make it to the final round... the tier list should be based off of tournament results, all tournies... not just MLG or biggies.. give everyone a chance to affect that list, make it something the community develops instead of hoping for change
- then again, what noob in a tournament would make it to the final round... the tier list should be based off of tournament results, all tournies... not just MLG or biggies.. give everyone a chance to affect that list, make it something the community develops instead of hoping for change
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
He did mention that there was a small chance hed go MK when we teamed for a doubles tourney....
I approve of and cosign to this post.
people need to stop being so salty
Browny
Smash Hater
Unfortunately, due to the fact that brawl isnt exactly a big fighting game and that it has so many characters, it only takes 1 person to send the tournament results of any given character through the roof. Its accurate for the top and high tiers but once you get to mid tier, one top player switching their mid tier main to another mid tier main could see a complete reversal in averaging tournament placings, a difference in 10 entire placings on the tier list doesnt seem unlikely.
Oh cool its BBR admission bashing time again! lemme join you
hate hate hate
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
I was not aware that Mr.Doom was a "mediocre" Ike. Or the other Ikes that place well. And why would San drop a character he's perfectly confirmable with, and is placing extremely well with, for a character that is better on paper, but might not do as well with in reality? lol.
When you're getting top 16 at MLG, or 9th at APEX, you've got no reason to switch.
Besides all of that: When Kirk used to be the best Ike main and he started to stop playing Brawl, our tournament results barely dipped at all. A spot or two maybe, that was it. It wouldn't hit us has nearly as hard as some character would feel losing their best mainer.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
Where's the tirelist?
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
It's hiding in the underbrush.
Purple
Hi guys!
It is true though, most things don't go as planned.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
Yeah, so when we get PAYED to be in the BBR, we'll make **** sure to prioritize it over everything else in life. Until then, we'll prioritize quality of the list over a small setback of a few days, since there's absolutely no "urgency" to a tier list's existence anyway.
The list is almost done, we're just finalizing a few small things. Chill out.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
You guys haven't gotten your checks yet?
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Um, no?
One person doing well with the character would not justify the character moving up in the tierlist.
It can be many things, simply taking advantage of the lack of matchup knowledge, the layer being extremely skilled, or a fluke. It does need to be replicated to show that the character truly is viable and has the actual potential to move up in the list.
Otherwise, Captain Falcon should be above Sonic.
*offers some salt to your hate*
No, Falcon wouldn't be above Sonic even with that logic. You should probably take a closer look at Sonic's results.
BBR is merely meeting my expectations right now. BBR has never been known to be very organized or quick to do anything, so I'd rather they take their time, especially to make an adequate v5 topic, detailing processes and general FAQ or something.
It IS true that for most characters especially mid tier and below, 1 or 2 people make up an overwhelming majority of tournament results for a character.
1 Person doing well is pretty much the basis for most characters going up as far from what I notice. Most other times, BBR realize how wrong they are (most blatant example Pit). If Koolaid placed better/really really good at the recent regionals/nationals he's been to, people would say their reasoning was justified, even if he's pretty much the only Pit besides 1 or 2 others that people look to (aka 1/few people for a character). Removing the top players of a character from the equation only looks to see how mediocre mediocre players of a character do compared to other mediocre players, especially when a character isn't too popular.
Especially when looking at doing well in regionals/nationals compared to just being a local hero.
It IS true that for most characters especially mid tier and below, 1 or 2 people make up an overwhelming majority of tournament results for a character.
1 Person doing well is pretty much the basis for most characters going up as far from what I notice. Most other times, BBR realize how wrong they are (most blatant example Pit). If Koolaid placed better/really really good at the recent regionals/nationals he's been to, people would say their reasoning was justified, even if he's pretty much the only Pit besides 1 or 2 others that people look to (aka 1/few people for a character). Removing the top players of a character from the equation only looks to see how mediocre mediocre players of a character do compared to other mediocre players, especially when a character isn't too popular.
Especially when looking at doing well in regionals/nationals compared to just being a local hero.
Conviction
Human Nature
Hmmm lots of BBR members are fighting back...I think I see the new tier list over the horizon
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I completely agree with this statement. Bolded in particular. I can see exactly why you wouldn't want to use just one person for a rise in the list. But when that one person is doing extremely well time after time (see the poster I quoted), it's justifiable. And I think that'll show in results (for Ike in particular).
Browny
Smash Hater
... was it not obvious enough?
if for some reason, a pro mid-tier mainer of a character held up by a few players (pt a perfect example) switched to someone like ike, im pretty sure that would result in a considerable gap in the list between the two than if they never switched.
and when was the last time anyone did anything notable with falcon rofl. who cares about low tier events, hes never come close to sonics tourney results, not even in any single tournament let alone over a period of time. god knows how you came to that conclusion.
Each person has to be held responsible for their opinions. Don't bash others for what I say, remember that unless we say something along the lines of "BBR approved", then everything under it is our own thoughts, like my example. geez, who would've thought reality would be so hard to swallow? Even though my example is ENTIRELY true.
And it's not always unprofessional. The truth is that you don't know what goes on in the BBR, so you should all sit tight and just wait. Complaining won't resolve anything n your accounts or on ours. And you guys are always there to bash on anything that happens with the BBR, even before I was admitted in. Why don't you guys ever play devil's advocate?
Let me end it by saying "our time is not devoted to Smash solely". This is not a job where we can gain sustenance from doing our BBR duties, we have other MUCH more important priorities in life. There are also times where there are things in the BBR that need to take priority, and with those two coupled together, you can't help but get your schedules set back.
And we do NOT do it on purpose.
Man Albert, you are the ONE guy who ALWAYS is there to piss me off. Last time you said it was all fun and games, I'm not willing to see it that way anymore.
And it's not always unprofessional. The truth is that you don't know what goes on in the BBR, so you should all sit tight and just wait. Complaining won't resolve anything n your accounts or on ours. And you guys are always there to bash on anything that happens with the BBR, even before I was admitted in. Why don't you guys ever play devil's advocate?
Are you calling me a liar? Is life not like this? Face the truth, almost every schedule in life has a setback. Is it so hard to imagine that the BBR has setbacks too? And like Mike said, being a BBR member is not a profession, it is simply a group of people who are devoted to guiding the competitive scene. A group, not a profession, so rules of professionalism don't adhere to us. With that said, being professional is always a must, but if things happen and we can't follow our schedules, you can't blame it on us on account of "not being professional", and that you have no idea what happens in there.
Let me end it by saying "our time is not devoted to Smash solely". This is not a job where we can gain sustenance from doing our BBR duties, we have other MUCH more important priorities in life. There are also times where there are things in the BBR that need to take priority, and with those two coupled together, you can't help but get your schedules set back.
And we do NOT do it on purpose.
Tell me what else to say and it shall be what I tell you guys. I don't say it to show off, I say it because if I go past that line, I will be leaking information, and know what? In the BBR they kick you for that, in the mod community they de-mod you for that, and in SWF they ban you for that. Are you saying you want me to do this so you can have momentary satisfaction by knowing what goes on in the BBR? Instead of letting out your troll personality, why don't you get smarter and apply for the BBR? I am quite sure that if you get accepted, you will know everything you want to know about the BBR.
Man Albert, you are the ONE guy who ALWAYS is there to piss me off. Last time you said it was all fun and games, I'm not willing to see it that way anymore.
Refer to the above, except the last part.
Purple
Hi guys!
Don't show them you're mad kewkky.
Don't show them you're mad.
But really guys, you guys should show urgency to something you enjoy, that being brawl. You guys are in the brawl backroom but you guys don't have a sense of urgency apparently (going by what mMm said).
granted, i don't care when the tier list comes out, I'm going to play anyways
. I just think if you guys really aren't trying, then you guys should be trying harder. Really work to meet those deadlines!
If things are getting put on holds, it would seem you guys need more members honestly.
Don't show them you're mad.
But really guys, you guys should show urgency to something you enjoy, that being brawl. You guys are in the brawl backroom but you guys don't have a sense of urgency apparently (going by what mMm said).
granted, i don't care when the tier list comes out, I'm going to play anyways
. I just think if you guys really aren't trying, then you guys should be trying harder. Really work to meet those deadlines!If things are getting put on holds, it would seem you guys need more members honestly.
Kewkky... he's not saying post what is going on in the least. He's saying, in the next post leave out the sentence "I really wish I could tell you guys blah blah." That part is unnecessary, and is what irks him. You brought up the point that you were in the BR for no reason other to say that you can't talk about it. If you left the entire post as it was, and removed the very last sentence from it, he wouldn't have had issue.
Like I said before, every post by any BBR member is simply a personal opinion unless he says "BBR Approved" beforehand. Maybe that's just his way of not saying anything unnecessary.
We're trying to improve the quality of the BBR. I can tell you this: those BBR bash topics really did have an effect, and we really did read them and took feedback from them... But changes don't just happen without people knowing, fluctuations in stabilized systems need time to reach another stable state, and before that happens, influences upon that system have to be constant, or stop completely (in this case, finish).granted, i don't care when the tier list comes out, I'm going to play anyways
I personally think that part shows that there are things going on. If I said nothing, then the thought of us 'just being lazy because nothing ever happens in there' would be an option for our tardiness too. If I say something like "I wish I could speak", then it shows that there's stuff I could say to back up my statement, but I don't want to say anything in specific or else I'll be punished for it... It kind of like putting a blanket over a hole, people not noticing there's a hole there, then someone who knows about it grabs someone by the hand and makes them touch the part where there's a hole, but doesn't show it to them. People would say "oh someone put a blanket on the floor", but the one who touched around the area would say "it's because they're hiding a hole".
Kenrawr
Smash Master
malcolmmm*
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Give the BBR a break guys, without them there wouldn't even be a tier list.
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
Er, this whole thing could have been avoided with better communication.
So in reality the BBR did nothing wrong here, Kewkky is likely being attacked because people think the tier list had a set release date and Kewkky is entering SUPA MAD mode and preaching about life or something because he doesn't realize this and blah blah blah this is kinda funny.
So yeah. Step up dat communication. Now I think Pierce7d is a seriously awesome guy, but it seems to me that awesome guys have the tendency to bite off more than they chew (I do the same thing actually... minus the awesome part :C ). So yeah, perhaps that thread should be maintained by a group of three or something? Cause like Kewkky said Life >>> BBR, and because of this it's inevitable that the **** hits the fan from time to time.
hmmmmmmmmmm
Ah! There it is! ...But why is this crucial bit of information hidden in an non-sticky thread that's no longer even relevant? (character discussions have been finished for some time). Before reading this I was under the impression that the tier list was intended to be out on the 15th and was pushed back to the 20th... and from reading this thread it looks like I wasn't the only one confused.TheMike said:
So in reality the BBR did nothing wrong here, Kewkky is likely being attacked because people think the tier list had a set release date and Kewkky is entering SUPA MAD mode and preaching about life or something because he doesn't realize this and blah blah blah this is kinda funny.
So yeah. Step up dat communication. Now I think Pierce7d is a seriously awesome guy, but it seems to me that awesome guys have the tendency to bite off more than they chew (I do the same thing actually... minus the awesome part :C ). So yeah, perhaps that thread should be maintained by a group of three or something? Cause like Kewkky said Life >>> BBR, and because of this it's inevitable that the **** hits the fan from time to time.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Perhaps the BBR should adopt the Blizzard policy of "Soon". (TM)
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