THE GOD KAIS Present MWC-E #1 " Brawl Bootcamp Lv 2" Fairfield, OH (Oct.10) RESULTS!!

[What's The Point]

1. I just say "alright, fine" and stop doing the circuit and you don't have one

Not really. If you stopped I'd probably get one going. As Tyr mentioned, it's not really that hard to get a TO to call their tournament a circuit one and then go and collect the circuit money.

 

[jokey665]

Simple voting is exactly what's ruined standard competitive Pokémon.

Erm, I haven't played competitive pokemon since about february, so if something has happened since then I don't know about it, but what exactly is wrong with it?

 

[Eddie G]

Simple voting is exactly what's ruined standard competitive Pokémon.

You can't create and add a new element in Pokemon though, at least none comparable to making an entirely new stage in Brawl. Just sayin.

 

[TheKiest]

Uh... we should prolly move this talk to the Circuit info thread, not the results of this tournament.

 

[sneakytako]

Then you better consider following the procedure I put in place rather than just complaining on a forum.



Despite all of the whining and crying, not a single person has stepped up the plate to do anything constructive. Despite all the *****ing and complaining, everyone still showed up to the tournament.



If you want a stage removed, prove to me it is broken. Removing stages merely because "that's gay" does not a competitive game make. I don't care what you like or don't like, nor will I ever. I care about what is broken and what is not. If something is broken, prove it in a video or go win a bunch of money in tournament play. If Infern came in and beat everyone on Green Greens with no problems, hell yeah it'd raise a flag. He didn't. He used it against me because it's a bad MK stage.


Seriously, you can ***** all day and you get one of two conclusions:

1. I just say "alright, fine" and stop doing the circuit and you don't have one

2. I say "meh" and ignore you

Your only option to change things in the circuit have been laid out for you.

I think it's your criteria for banning stages is the problem we are all facing. You're criteria seems like the only reason to ban a stage is because it gives one of the chars an unfair advantage. There has to be more criteria to ban stages.

If I were to play you OS on FD, I would get ***** 99 times out of 100 games, 1 game on the off chance you SD and I capitalize. :D But if we were to play on GG, my chances would increase dramtically. Why? Because random bombs would play a factor eventually, even if you're playing really carefully. Competitiveness on a stage should be just as important as fairness.

GG is not competitive for the following reasons;

Low cieling + Bomb hazard = randomish deaths at low percent
falling blocks can gimp

Shouldn't these characteristics be considered in banning a stage?

 

[Baro]

Green Greens = please ban
Aero Dive = holy **** please keep

 

[Y.b.M.]

Libra is bad for tethers because as you're tethering you can be forced to stand on the moving platform beneath you, moving you closer to the stage making it so people can hit you with moves (like Lucas's Dsmash) that you could otherwise avoid by withdrawing your tether and grabbing invincibility frames. It's actually really annoying. Argent probably thought this was self explanatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PafFo1pTVZ4 < reason #1 why Green Greens should be banned

There are multiple videos of this glitch with varying sizes of hitbox. Obviously if this glitch occurs in a tournament match it's going to test something entirely different than who is the better brawler. Especially since it's something that's very difficult to duplicate on command meaning it's more or less random. Were this to occur it could encourage an unstoppable form of camping against many characters.

reason #2 - Snake gets an autowin unless you go Dedede. Need I say more? It doesn't encourage competitiveness. Just...being Snake or Dedede...

It's stupid that we have to prove to you why a stage should be banned while your entire argument is "why not?" You haven't said a word on why certain stages should be on at all. Why aren't we adding PTAD if we have Green Greens? Hell, why not Hanenbow? What criteria do those stages meet to you that Green Greens doesn't?

The only reason we have to put up with this is because you're Overswarm and despite the fact that you do very little aside from creating rules, talking to TO's and getting them to say they're in your circuit, everyone listens to whatever stupid things you say about stages. Your only power in this rests on the fact that we're all too lazy to run a **** circuit ourselves.

You're clearly not interested in the interests of the majority or even the elite competitive players of the region. You haven't proven to me at all that you're interested in a fair competitive environment despite your claim. I don't feel like you're doing the best thing for the midwest community at all. If anyone has anything to prove, it's you to us.


Anyone can run this circuit. It's not exactly brain surgery. There have already been errors and there's only been on tournament...

*STANDING OVATION*....Nothing Less expected from a God Kai...

 

[Overswarm]

I think it's your criteria for banning stages is the problem we are all facing. You're criteria seems like the only reason to ban a stage is because it gives one of the chars an unfair advantage. There has to be more criteria to ban stages.

If I were to play you OS on FD, I would get ***** 99 times out of 100 games, 1 game on the off chance you SD and I capitalize. :D But if we were to play on GG, my chances would increase dramtically. Why? Because random bombs would play a factor eventually, even if you're playing really carefully. Competitiveness on a stage should be just as important as fairness.

GG is not competitive for the following reasons;

Low cieling + Bomb hazard = randomish deaths at low percent
falling blocks can gimp

Shouldn't these characteristics be considered in banning a stage?

Why should they?

Smash is designed around CPs. Random elements exist in Brawl at the very core; we can't remove tripping without changing the code. We have to deal with them.

The blocks on Green Greens aren't random, anyway.

 

[Lord Viper]

Green Greens = please ban
Aero Dive = holy **** please keep

☆ This, becuase Aero Dive = More people using Kirby in tourney's. That's one of his best stages. =3 ☆

 

[ook]

I can cancel the circuit if you prefer.

Yes please.

If you don't like a stage list, don't come.

I didn't.

1. I just say "alright, fine" and stop doing the circuit and you don't have one

Again, yes please.

Despite all the *****ing and complaining, everyone still showed up to the tournament.

Again, no I didn't.



Someone please just make a new circuit... seriously why do you guys put up with Overswarm being "in charge?"

 

[sneakytako]

Why should they?

Smash is designed around CPs. Random elements exist in Brawl at the very core; we can't remove tripping without changing the code. We have to deal with them.

The blocks on Green Greens aren't random, anyway.

Because having non-competitive stages in tournaments diminish the purpose of going to tournaments. For people going because they need to pay bills, this may not apply. But for the rest of us, one of the main reasons why we go to tournaments is to measure our skill against other players. Matches on GG measure skill much less effectively than most other stages.

 

[capemkills]

Because having non-competitive stages in tournaments diminish the purpose of going to tournaments. For people going because they need to pay bills, this may not apply. But for the rest of us, one of the main reasons why we go to tournaments is to measure our skill against other players. Matches on GG measure skill much less effectively than most other stages.

I agree...but don't u feel like your wasting your breath trying to argue?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Ultimately it's OS and the TO's who are running events for his circuit to make the call. I agree with OS that nothing needs to be voted on because the TO has every right to create whatever ruleset he wants at his event.

 

[ChamP_SlayZ]

@AZ im jus curious to ask a diddy bc i know nothing about nor do i play the lil Kong. how do u like the stages? im guessin u prolly like Libra cuz it is a good stage minus the ceiling. but what about the others? just wondering.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I hate em for doubles - all the stages feel cramped and it feel like a double stage should be built on "medium" in the custom stages instead of "small". Not to mention there is that glitch with the spawn points. For two games I spawned next to Infern's Snake facing down the jab. I wouldn't mind trying custom stages for doubles, but to me these stages feel like they were designed around singles balance and you could likewise design a stage with doubles specifically in mind.
I like Abyss and Libra for singles and am meh about Equity. Libra I think would be better w/o the platforms on the side and with lowering the center platform by one square.

 

[TheKiest]

The blocks on Green Greens aren't random, anyway.

Explain with video por favor.

Again as mentioned in that one thread Lain started, it all comes down to what do you view as "competitive".

Is it...

A) A test of skill to determine who can win 1v1 in the most fair situation?

B) A test of skill to determine who knows more about the game and can perform the best under the game's conditions?

Having the "janKEIST" stages look at question B. The more familiar you are with the random elements, the better chance you have. Most extreme Pretty much you would get the Default Tournament (FFA all items etc) from this:
http://www.ustream.tv/OUGamingArts/videos
(any that are labeled FFA)

Having the more "neutral" stages looks at question A. The most fair stage, the best character, who will win?
This ruleset is the most extreme in this case:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=251045

Most "real" competitive games always address both parts well... but Smash has always been different... it has to separate these two things.

I want it to be both, but that can only happen by putting in the style that Nintendo wanted Smash to be: a part game.

 

[Framerate]

Ask Crunch about G&W on Green Greens....

Campy G&W + GG = gg lol

 

[sneakytako]

Explain with video por favor.

Again as mentioned in that one thread Lain started, it all comes down to what do you view as "competitive".

Is it...

A) A test of skill to determine who can win 1v1 in the most fair situation?

B) A test of skill to determine who knows more about the game and can perform the best under the game's conditions?

If competitive meant B, we would play all brawl. How can B = competitiveness? If smash was a game of knowledge, infinite-cape would be legal. But competitive smash tournaments is something different than friendlies.

 

[ithrowthings]

Hey OS, remember when you asked me if I wanted my tournament to be a part of your MWC and I agreed as long as I got to choose the stages? Then you said that I would boost attendance if I made it a part of the MWC and I told you I would rather have the attendees be happy with the stagelist and you pretty much told me to go **** myself?

See how everyone here is pissed off at the stagelist? Have you seen other threads that have been complaining about the MWC stagelist? Notice how 9/10 people dislike the stagelist, exactly like I said? Even if there were some crazy logical reason to have a stage be legal, if 9/10 attendees dislike the stage it shouldn't be legal. There's a reason the stages and the rules have come to where they are now, because it's what the majority of people like, not because of extensive research into the game's engine.

9/10 people don't want items on.
9/10 people want an 8 minute timer.
9/10 people agree that 3 stocks is the proper number of stocks.
9/10 people agree your stagelist is garbage.

Players who like to play with items on and FFA with 10 stocks all the time and nothing else don't go to too many tournaments. It's because the tournaments don't cater to their interests. If you don't change your stagelist to cater to the audience, your attendance will suffer. I probably could've made it out to this tournament but because of the stagelist, I refuse to enter. Instead of driving 5 hours to play some friendlies I decided to chill out with some friends and spend my gas money on other things.

 

[TheKiest]

If competitive meant B, we would play all brawl. Seriously how can B = competitiveness? If smash was a game of knowledge, infinite-cape would be legal. But competitive smash tournaments is something different than friendlies.

B = competitiveness in other games such as BlazBlue and Street Fighter.

 

[sneakytako]

Aww cmon Keist Blazblue and SF stages have 0 influence on gameplay.

 

[TheKiest]

I'm aware, my statement about A and B were about competitive games in general .

Personally I think it's really dumb that competitive Smash exists, but it does and has the best community which is why I play it.

 

[Kel]

Renegade picked Green greens on me (he was snake) and I almost 3 stocked him. How is that an auto win for snake? I just stayed away from the blocks when they had the possibility of falling on my noggin. It's not rocket science to stay away from something that might kill you haha.

Also, ITT, you didn't want your tournament to be a circuit because FD wasn't a starter more than anything. Most people here liked the fact that FD wasn't a starter (except the falco, IC and Diddy mains).

 

[Eddie G]

Ask Crunch about G&W on Green Greens....

Campy G&W + GG = gg lol

Praxis and I disagree. GG is amazing for Peach in handing that matchup. Crouching under the plats to punish anything from above with u-tilts/u-smashes, refreshing kill moves and staying mobile with bomber/blocks, and a lot more but I won't give it all away.

 

[Doctor X]

Personally I think it's really dumb that competitive Brawl exists

Fix'd.

Seriously.

 

[fonzi21]

Some snake took me to Green Greens this weekend and I beat him with Ganondorf, at an OUGA tournament I had Zozefup one of the campiest players I know take me to green greens with Game and watch and I stomped him with wolf, there is no auto-win for people due to a stage, only serious advantages.

Also Video evidence is difficult for many people because they don't possess the tools to make one or put it online or whatever.

Also Kel I didn't like the fact that FD wasn't a starter either =(.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I think this is all utterly ridiculous. All of you people are debating endlessly with OS... but for what? Since OS has run the first circuit, we've had problems with his arbitrary rules and his manner of dealing with the community in general. RUN A NEW CIRCUIT THAT IS NOT RUN BY OS, AND JUST ASK TOs WHO WERE PART OF HIS TO BECOME PART OF YOURS. That is IT. Thats the ONLY way to get what you want without having to deal with overly lengthy debates that ultimately lead to nothing.

I do agree that custom stages are an interesting idea that could be explored in the future. But I think the way OS went about doing it was 100% wrong. I believe there are ways to get custom stages to work in tournements, but making your own stages and forcing them to be part of an ENTIRE CIRCUIT is not only selfish, but completely absurd. OS, I agree with many of your philosophies and reasoning for things. But I cannot agree with your methodology. I feel like you could get much more done, on a much larger scale, if you were to just stop throwing the community under a bus while you do things your own way. You may think its silly to have to listen to people who half-*** things, but this is the [expected] result. You HAVE to listen to the people who you don't want to. Otherwise you truly can't get things to be accepted. And isn't that the idea here? Aren't you trying to get people to be open to and accept the idea of custom stages on in tournaments? Well, frankly, you're doing a horrible job of it right now.

 

[What's The Point]

RUN A NEW CIRCUIT THAT IS NOT RUN BY OS, AND JUST ASK TOs WHO WERE PART OF HIS TO BECOME PART OF YOURS. That is IT. Thats the ONLY way to get what you want without having to deal with overly lengthy debates that ultimately lead to nothing.

I'm actually doing that. Waiting for TO response.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Speaking of vids:
I just remembered I have winners finals/losers finals/grand finals of teams on my laptop + me vs Mew2King.

Also, has the match of me vs lain been uploaded yet?

 

[lou4222]

Praxis and I disagree. GG is amazing for Peach in handing that matchup. Crouching under the plats to punish anything from above with u-tilts/u-smashes, refreshing kill moves and staying mobile with bomber/blocks, and a lot more but I won't give it all away.

Praxis would disagree with anything being remotely good about Game and Watch.

 

[ArgentStew]

Ultimately it's OS and the TO's who are running events for his circuit to make the call. I agree with OS that nothing needs to be voted on because the TO has every right to create whatever ruleset he wants at his event.

That should be true... However...

Hey OS, remember when you asked me if I wanted my tournament to be a part of your MWC and I agreed as long as I got to choose the stages? Then you said that I would boost attendance if I made it a part of the MWC and I told you I would rather have the attendees be happy with the stagelist and you pretty much told me to go **** myself?

This kinda stuff has gone on...

I think this is all utterly ridiculous. All of you people are debating endlessly with OS... but for what? Since OS has run the first circuit, we've had problems with his arbitrary rules and his manner of dealing with the community in general. RUN A NEW CIRCUIT THAT IS NOT RUN BY OS, AND JUST ASK TOs WHO WERE PART OF HIS TO BECOME PART OF YOURS. That is IT. Thats the ONLY way to get what you want without having to deal with overly lengthy debates that ultimately lead to nothing.

This isn't an option for some of us... I've never even run a tourney before... If I ran a circuit, I doubt anyone would see it as legit, and I wouldn't get much attendance... I'd definitely do it if I had some help from people with experience... I'm fairer than a lot of people think...

I do agree that custom stages are an interesting idea that could be explored in the future. But I think the way OS went about doing it was 100% wrong. I believe there are ways to get custom stages to work in tournements, but making your own stages and forcing them to be part of an ENTIRE CIRCUIT is not only selfish, but completely absurd.

I agree with your views here, Panda... But did he make the stages himself?

OS, you're really taking a lot of crap to defend your decision... Is it really worth it? :/

 

[Tyr_03]

I actually provided video evidense that Green Greens has a possible glitch that can make it completely imbalanced and promote an untouchable form of camping. You can search the Green Greens stage glitch on youtube and find multiple examples of it occuring. Overswarm's response was that this hasn't happened ever in tournament and yet he refuses to address the obvious fact that IT COULD HAPPEN AND TOTALLY SCREW OVER AN ENTIRE SET FOR YOU!!

There are enough videos to show that it occurs relatively frequently. How the **** is this complicated?

Seriously, I did exactly what you said to show you that a stage should be banned and you *****ed out on me. I'm sure you feel attacked and everything but atleast address complaints that follow your exact instructions. I really don't care whether the information goes to you or Infern or whoever the TO is. Green Greens should always be banned because of this glitch. I'll respect the argument that Snake doesn't always win there. No ****ing duh. But even throwing that argument out, the glitch makes the stage ban worthy. Please don't throw away my argument with "I've never seen this happen so it probably doesn't matter." Especially when I show you it happening in a video. Maybe you should do some research on it.

I'm trying not to get pissed off and say something I'll regret but this is too ridiculous. I'm so sick of having to choose sides on ******** things like this. Honestly this problem is easily solved with logic and OS is just being stubborn.

 

[wakka444]

i would bet that it hasnt happened in tournament because.........the stage is banned at practically every tournament.....because of that glitch....

OS you said provide evidence that imbalances a stage you didnt say provide evidence that it has happened in a tournament also. GGs fits the criteria of a ban.

Also, ITT, you didn't want your tournament to be a circuit because FD wasn't a starter more than anything. Most people here liked the fact that FD wasn't a starter (except the falco, IC and Diddy mains).

actually FD is always an auto stage strike followed by a ban as a diddy main, and most people didnt think about banning libra bc theyre unfamiliar with it so i went to pseudo-FD several times on the first game and when i needed a counterpick i had a second FD to choose from, as a diddy main its like heaven really.

 

[Overswarm]

I think this is all utterly ridiculous. All of you people are debating endlessly with OS... but for what? Since OS has run the first circuit, we've had problems with his arbitrary rules and his manner of dealing with the community in general. RUN A NEW CIRCUIT THAT IS NOT RUN BY OS, AND JUST ASK TOs WHO WERE PART OF HIS TO BECOME PART OF YOURS. That is IT. Thats the ONLY way to get what you want without having to deal with overly lengthy debates that ultimately lead to nothing.

I do agree that custom stages are an interesting idea that could be explored in the future. But I think the way OS went about doing it was 100% wrong. I believe there are ways to get custom stages to work in tournements, but making your own stages and forcing them to be part of an ENTIRE CIRCUIT is not only selfish, but completely absurd. OS, I agree with many of your philosophies and reasoning for things. But I cannot agree with your methodology. I feel like you could get much more done, on a much larger scale, if you were to just stop throwing the community under a bus while you do things your own way. You may think its silly to have to listen to people who half-*** things, but this is the [expected] result. You HAVE to listen to the people who you don't want to. Otherwise you truly can't get things to be accepted. And isn't that the idea here? Aren't you trying to get people to be open to and accept the idea of custom stages on in tournaments? Well, frankly, you're doing a horrible job of it right now.

MI timeline:

-first mwc started by kel
-MI *****es about Kel running the circuit
-second mwc started by OS
-MI *****es about OS running the circuit
-MI says "we'll fix everything and start our own circuit!"
-OS says "cool" and starts planning for OH only circuit
-MI gets a free venue and charges a $20 venue fee to make a $1000 guaranteed pot
-MI circuit falls through, they move it back to just one tournament
-OS is now able to schedule events without clashing with MI's
-MI cancels their one tournament
-OS changes OH circuit to OH, IN, KY tournament
-MI *****es about OS running a circuit
-First circuit event gets 61 entrants
-MI *****es


The timeline is basically the same for most of the people complaining.


I think I'm doing an alright job considering this is the third MW circuit and attendance has continued to increase. We had 61 entrants at the first Brawl circuit event. A ton of people *****ed on the forums... then came. A ton of people are *****ing now on the forums.... and had a good time.

Most of the people *****ing are, quite predictably, people who have *****ed consistently about everything else in the past. The only thing surprising to me is that a lot of the people that are complaining are the people that don't even live close enough to attend the tournaments!

If every TO suddenly said "okay, no more custom stages or I won't hold an event"... I just wouldn't hold an event there. If enough did it and we couldn't hold a circuit, I just wouldn't hold it. I gain nothing running a circuit; I actually have more loss than gain. Arguing and *****ing does nothing; if you want change, go through the path I explained in the original post. Hell, if you don't like the custom stages... you can make your own and give them to me, then show me why they should be removed.

OS, you're really taking a lot of crap to defend your decision... Is it really worth it? :/

I care exactly 0% about what anyone thinks. Why anyone thinks I would, I don't know. My life does not begin and end with smash, and people's opinion on me matters little in a competitive sense. Having people hate me would actually be an improvement, as it makes each match more important.

I actually provided video evidense that Green Greens has a possible glitch that can make it completely imbalanced and promote an untouchable form of camping. You can search the Green Greens stage glitch on youtube and find multiple examples of it occuring. Overswarm's response was that this hasn't happened ever in tournament and yet he refuses to address the obvious fact that IT COULD HAPPEN AND TOTALLY SCREW OVER AN ENTIRE SET FOR YOU!!

There are enough videos to show that it occurs relatively frequently. How the **** is this complicated?

Seriously, I did exactly what you said to show you that a stage should be banned and you *****ed out on me. I'm sure you feel attacked and everything but atleast address complaints that follow your exact instructions. I really don't care whether the information goes to you or Infern or whoever the TO is. Green Greens should always be banned because of this glitch. I'll respect the argument that Snake doesn't always win there. No ****ing duh. But even throwing that argument out, the glitch makes the stage ban worthy. Please don't throw away my argument with "I've never seen this happen so it probably doesn't matter." Especially when I show you it happening in a video. Maybe you should do some research on it.

I'm trying not to get pissed off and say something I'll regret but this is too ridiculous. I'm so sick of having to choose sides on ******** things like this. Honestly this problem is easily solved with logic and OS is just being stubborn.

If that's the case, the following stages should be banned from competitive play:

Rainbow Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1
Castle Siege
Delfino
Pokemon Stadium 2

They all have "fall through" glitches that can take off a stock immediately, thus RUINING AN ENTIRE SET FOR YOU OMG.

Here's an idea for you Tyr: research the glitch you're telling me to research.

The "bomb glitch" isn't random, nor is it permanent. You can destroy it by occupying its frames while being invulnerable, among other things. I know Samus' up+b works. Do you know if you can merely air dodge through the explosion to remove it? Have you checked to see if this REALLY ruins a set? Have you even recreated it? If not, the bomb glitch is easiest to replicate with Ganon 's u-tilt, as it requires near pixel perfect spacing and his u-tilt just happens to have the right range. You can see a video on youtube on how to accomplish this.

The odds of this happening in tournament are very, very low. This glitch has not been seen ever in tournament. You are looking for an excuse, not a reason. If you want to justify a stage ban, justify it to those that don't see a reason to ban the stage and do so with evidence. Not with hyperbole and paranoia.

 

[Baro]

You guys need to just chill out and play.

 

[Paranormalsin]

If something is broken, prove it in a video or go win a bunch of money in tournament play.

Oh hai metaknight....

You guys need to just chill out and play.

i really agree with you baro, i really do, but at some point things get too out of hand and make you quit the game. I, for one, didnt know you guys were playing with new custom stages at this tournie, and my VERY FIRST thought was, "oh cool, something new to make brawl interesting" and when i saw them being played on and i heard that fd wasnt on the strike list, i was more like, "WTF is this coming to?" I did not enjoy watching any matches on the new stages, i did not even get a chance to play on them, nor do i want to, except for the pluck percents on one of them. Other than that, i could care less, but honestly, i agree with ITT aswell as ook. I would not enter in a tournie where the stage list was unfair or ******** and this is what it seems is happening, keep in mind, i didnt even participate in this one.

Personally I dont see why youre argueing with the majority OS. If they dont want the stages then just dont have them. Personally, reading through here, not one person really liked these stages, i dont see why THE PLAYERS THOUGHTS ON THE LEVELS THEY ARE PLAYING ON DONT MATTER TO AN ORGANIZER.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

MI timeline:

-first mwc started by kel
-MI *****es about Kel running the circuit
-second mwc started by OS
-MI *****es about OS running the circuit
-MI says "we'll fix everything and start our own circuit!"
-OS says "cool" and starts planning for OH only circuit
-MI gets a free venue and charges a $20 venue fee to make a $1000 guaranteed pot
-MI circuit falls through, they move it back to just one tournament
-OS is now able to schedule events without clashing with MI's
-MI cancels their one tournament
-OS changes OH circuit to OH, IN, KY tournament
-MI *****es about OS running a circuit
-First circuit event gets 61 entrants
-MI *****es

Not only are you taking things out of context here, but this entire statement was completely irrelevant to anything I said in my post. I didn't say I'd do anything. I was just telling the people who don't like your methods about what they can do to make it better, and I was also addressing the problem with your methodology. Where did MI come into the picture? When did our circuit ever arise to somehow compete against yours?

I'm not even going to try to defend what you're attacking here because you're doing it without rhyme or reason. Why not actually talk about the points I raised instead of trying to discredit my state to somehow discredit me and thus my argument in a roundabout manner? Your debating tactics are tricky, but way too obvious for people with experience.

I think I'm doing an alright job considering this is the third MW circuit and attendance has continued to increase. We had 61 entrants at the first Brawl circuit event. A ton of people *****ed on the forums... then came. A ton of people are *****ing now on the forums.... and had a good time.

Did you ever consider that you might have gotten more than 61 entrants had you done what people actually liked rather than ignoring them?

Most of the people *****ing are, quite predictably, people who have *****ed consistently about everything else in the past.

Really? I've never seen the majority of these people ***** before. Ever seen Tyr or Capem *****? Not that I can recall. I have a feeling that you just pulled that one straight out of your ***, honestly.

If every TO suddenly said "okay, no more custom stages or I won't hold an event"... I just wouldn't hold an event there. If enough did it and we couldn't hold a circuit, I just wouldn't hold it.

This is exactly the problem with your methodology. If you can't see why this is a problem, then there is obviously no convincing you to fix what you think isn't there.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Just to check: Pierce, what did you think of top 5 payout scheme? Were you surprised (in how little or how much it was) with the money you got for 4th? Do you think you could see the EC adopt this system? I've been working hard to get Ohio standard on it and essentially that has happened. I'd now like to start seeing the payout system spread to other areas and ultimately other games. Doesn't have to be the exact payout %'s as this tournament, but simply the concept of paying top 5 instead of top 3.

Also am I right to assume that MANY of you guys who attended felt you had a shot at the top 5 and getting money in singles?

---

I think people are ganging up a bit on OS. He means well, and I know and I'd bet most of you know his intentions are for the best competitive environment of the community and to encourage a fun, interesting tournament. OS unfortunately is painting himself as the villian, but lets be honest in this discussion - OS gets stuff done. There are few other people who get stuff done. Ankoku is probably the best candidate for "getting stuff done" in MI. And I'd like to point out that there is an MI circuit (basically just lolis events) and it seems to be going quite well, so props to Ankoku on that.

It was actually pretty fun when I played on the stages. It was new and interesting. They also didn't feel (in singles) like they were out-of-whack. The question seems to be though
-Should custom stages be used at all?

And I think it would be foolish to ignore the added ability of the custom stage creator. As pointed out, professional Halo and professional Starcraft (among other games) both use custom stages. Now maybe the way it was all implemented was done wrong, but I think, at the very least, the concept of using customs is a sound one in a competitive setting. We always argue after all that we know how to make the best rules for a competitive Smash tournament...so wouldn't it make sense that we likewise would know how to make the best competitive stages?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

And I think it would be foolish to ignore the added ability of the custom stage creator. As pointed out, professional Halo and professional Starcraft (among other games) both use custom stages. Now maybe the way it was all implemented was done wrong, but I think, at the very least, the concept of using customs is a sound one in a competitive setting. We always argue after all that we know how to make the best rules for a competitive Smash tournament...so wouldn't it make sense that we likewise would know how to make the best competitive stages?

I completely agree with this sentiment. I think there are tons of different ways that we can go about trying to experiment with custom stages, and I personally think this could be something we can/should discuss in the SBR. But what OS is doing is HURTING the chances of custom stages being accepted rather than helping them.

 

[Tyr_03]

This is a ******** argument. I have replicated the green greens glitch a long time ago. It's a ******** glitch that can easily come into play and has far more often than the other glitches you mentioned. The fact that you haven't seen it yet doesn't say much. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that most TO's ban the stage. It can be stopped. So can most forms of stalling and planking. Do we want to deal with either? No.

You're stubborn, annoying and nonsensical on smashboards. Thank God you're not like this in person or we'd probably have been in a fist fight by now.

Since there's no point in dealing with you I'll only bother talking with the TO's directly. Doesn't look like any of them agree with you anyway.