The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[leafgreen386]

An ideal teching code would implement a 20 frame window for you to tech in, like in melee. This should actually make ledgeteching possible while also making onstage teching a lot less stupid. And... we need ledgeteching. Badly. Some really stupid stagespike edgeguards exist right now that you can't tech, and so just end up killing you.

I would not mind a small increase in invincibility. As SCOTU said, ledgestalling was never actually broken in melee, and was banned for the use of just stalling the match. If you tried to plank with a ledgestall, it would be illegal, making this actually more of a deterrent to planking than a motion that would encourage it.

 

[SCOTU]

one more thing i meant to mention, i think the game can stand for a little more than 1F hitlag on everything. Basically, add a bit more hitlag in, but not a whole lot.

 

[zxeon]

Or we could do it Leaf's way which doesn't cost any extra lines. In short there is no good reason to not use that code.

 

[shanus]

Or we could do it Leaf's way which doesn't cost any extra lines. In short there is no good reason to not use that code.

Yeah its also almost impossible to make it.

 

[zxeon]

I don't know about Impossible.

By the way is that a yes?

 

[CloneHat]

An ideal teching code would implement a 20 frame window for you to tech in, like in melee. This should actually make ledgeteching possible while also making onstage teching a lot less stupid. And... we need ledgeteching. Badly. Some really stupid stagespike edgeguards exist right now that you can't tech, and so just end up killing you.

I would not mind a small increase in invincibility. As SCOTU said, ledgestalling was never actually broken in melee, and was banned for the use of just stalling the match. If you tried to plank with a ledgestall, it would be illegal, making this actually more of a deterrent to planking than a motion that would encourage it.

If ledgestalling was banned in Melee, then there's no point bringing back so it can just be banned again. Things that are banned (i.e. infinite chaingrabs, etc.) should be the things removed from B+.

 

[SCOTU]

stalling is banned in melee. Not specifically ledge stalling.

Also, what are the odds that we can get JC grabs back in here?
it's just a check that says: if in jump startup && grab input do standing grab.

 

[goodoldganon]

stalling is banned in melee. Not specifically ledge stalling.

Also, what are the odds that we can get JC grabs back in here?
it's just a check that says: if in jump startup && grab input do standing grab.

You can dash cancel. Just duck and then grab. Some basic concept.

 

[Eaode]

Also shield cancel grab, but you can't do that right out of an initial dash

 

[SCOTU]

you could do both of those in melee, but everyone still used the JC grab cause it's better.

 

[Eaode]

I agree with JC grabs because it's dumb that they took that out and not other stuff, and I just like JC grabbing. But it might face some 'not Melee 2.0' opposition and the effort probably won't be expended to make something relatively trivial like JC Grabs possible

 

[storm92]

you could do both of those in melee, but everyone still used the JC grab cause it's better.

Agreed, if we could get JC grabs I'd love that.
I use DC grabs, but it seems like JC are just much quicker and more "accurate", aka quicker to do from a dash at the moment you want them.
Of course, if it was anything more than like 10 lines, it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Shell]

Like I said before, if we can get Shielding during initial dash worked out then shield canceling would work fine for many circumstances.

Right now, though, there's a gap in between the start of the initial dash animation and the dash animation between which you can't DC or SC. If you could DC an initial dash that'd be the best. That would give better spacing options to attacks as well.

 

[zxeon]

I agree with SHeLL on this one. DC during initial dash.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

HUGE PROBLEM:

IC's can still CG the hell out of everyone with only d-throw(YES LIKE FALCO AND D3)

i didnt test with the whole cast but i did test with bowser, ike, gnw, pika, and shiek(all different weight classes)

and shiek needs some buffs(f-tilt), she is just too fast

 

[kupo15]

HUGE PROBLEM:

IC's can still CG the hell out of everyone with only d-throw(YES LIKE FALCO AND D3)

i didnt test with the whole cast but i did test with bowser, ike, gnw, pika, and shiek(all different weight classes)

and shiek needs some buffs(f-tilt), she is just too fast

Its because that throw isn't techable and it should be

 

[Revven]

HUGE PROBLEM:

IC's can still CG the hell out of everyone with only d-throw(YES LIKE FALCO AND D3)

i didnt test with the whole cast but i did test with bowser, ike, gnw, pika, and shiek(all different weight classes)

Did you try it on a human? CPUs aren't really something you should be testing this on.

Edit: Huh... I guess kupo knows about it, so I guess it's actually legit. That's BS.

Good thing nobody plays ICs! :D

 

[Eaode]

Kupo what do you mean teching IC's dthrow?

 

[Almas]

The bounce off the floor from the IC's Down Grab is part of the throw itself, not a side effect of being hit by it.

 

[Finns7]

How would adding more ledge invincability better this game.......I just wanna know

 

[Greenpoe]

It isn't a problem; IC's are meant to CG. I say leave it the way it is. Their grab range is absolutely terrible, and it is extremely easy to separate Nana & Popo.

 

[kupo15]

How would adding more ledge invincability better this game.......I just wanna know

I'm horrible at explaining. Why don't you try it yourself?

It isn't a problem; IC's are meant to CG. I say leave it the way it is. Their grab range is absolutely terrible, and it is extremely easy to separate Nana & Popo.

They should CG if they are good enough, not because the game gives it to them on a silver platter.

 

[MK26]

An ideal teching code would implement a 20 frame window for you to tech in, like in melee.

Q4ofallthings,whywasthistakenoutofBrawl?

Any update on beta 3.3?

 

[Eldiran]

First, look at Makkun's Wii modding / Brawl hacks thread. Once you understand this process, check out kupo's Competitive Brawl+ Code Agenda. On the first page you should see the frame speed engine code, with some directions. Just use this code alone. Come back if you have questions after reading the various guides and instructions.

I'm sorry Brawl+ isn't your bag (you tried it, right?) but good luck with your personal mods.

Thanks for the help! The code agenda topic helped a good deal. I didn't have much success with the frame speed mod, but that's not that important -- I would much rather have the changes from "Bowser's Thick Skin" and "Metaknight's Flimsy Armor" work. But when I turned these two codes on, Bowser was immune to any damage, and Metaknight was immune to knockback! Any idea what went wrong? Is there another code needed to make these two work?

 

[Almas]

I think the biggest issue with the IC's chaingrab is Popo's solo climber grab. Without it, ICs can only chaingrab if they manage to have both climbers near each other at the same time. With it, Popo can 'stall' by doing the grab 2-3 times at low %, giving Nana time to catch up, and then they can perform the grab indefinitely.

Without the solo chaingrab, the entire grab could be prevented with good spacing and and warding off Nana, but the chaingrab would still exist if someone with suitable skill got the grab off under the correct circumstances.

 

[Ulevo]

Even so, Ice Climbers are a flawed character. They play a high risk, high reward game. Having them relinquish the only trait that makes them a tournament viable character is not in the characters best interest. Especially now that shield stun is added, I see no reason why we should consider modifying the Ice Climbers. They never dominated tournaments. Not even remotely. Brawl Plus has taken their shield advantage away now. Why bother tampering with them further if they're obviously not a concern?

Lets also not forget that characters are faster now, and everyone has their aerial lag reduced significantly. This makes grabbing characters even more difficult.

 

[kupo15]

I would say that popo's dthrows should be techable at 0% thus better DIable as well to put some skill in his CGs

 

[Eaode]

how would you tech Popo's dthrow? <_<

 

[kupo15]

how would you tech Popo's dthrow? <_<

Make you go into the tumble somehow

 

[Eaode]

i mean you don't hit the ground before you get regrabbed...

 

[leafgreen386]

K. Pulling a cape here. Leave the ICs grabs alone. They're fine as they are. We shouldn't be looking into nerfing a character that does not need to be nerfed.

 

[mofo_]

brawl+ is awesome o.o

 

[The Cape]

K. Pulling a cape here. Leave the ICs grabs alone. They're fine as they are. We shouldn't be looking into nerfing a character that does not need to be nerfed.

If you are going to "pull a cape" do it with something that isnt actually a legit problem.

The fact that the ICers have an unDIable infinite and its relatively easy to setup is rather stupid. I still like the idea of removing Nana grab which still allows them to do some 0 to death CGs but it also gives the other player a chance to DI, SDI, or tech out.

 

[abcool]

Ok. I wanna make some valid points on the laser cap issue and the heavier characters buffs aswell. First off we gotta realise that there are different kinds of metagames in smash. I've noticed the heavy characters play more defensive and wait for an opening..but for some strange reason you guys are trying to buff them offensively. What i am saying is instead of changing there KB and modding there frames, just give bowser less shieldstun and push, this would make the faster character think twice before approaching and also give bowser the advantage of doing what he does best...attacking out of his shield. What i am trying to say overall is some characters are defensive(bowser,samus etc.) and some are offensive (sheik,meta etc.) But if you remembered correctly in melee..there were versatile characters..such as Fox and marth. This is where i move on to the laser debate. Ok why do you ppl wanna cap falcos lasers?! oh yea because he can camp. well ladies and gentlemen, That is falcos defensive game and it only puts him where he always has been since melee to vbrawl *in the top tier roster*, I know b+ is all about balance, but as someone stated NO game can ever be balanced. Anyway. I wanna say that falco and wolf have an upside to there laser game first off wolf can Di his lasers, plus he gets an added damage effect when your close to him. Falco already has stun with his laser aswell...what about Fox... This is where i scratch my head, Fox no longer is versatile, because his laser game has been nerfed drastically. Why?! well i'll say why, Fox no longer has the ability to DI with his lasers this cuts his laser game and thus makes him an offensive character instead of a versatile character like his melee and N64 counter part, besides that his range has been cut, and you should also know with momentum retreat lasers can take you off the edge of the stage and only lead to being gimped upon returning. i am saying that Top tier characters will existed. I just want you guys to know that some characters are based off of offense some defense and others are just that good. The one thing that over comes all of this is MINDGAMES.

 

[GPDP]

Ok. I wanna make some valid points on the laser cap issue and the heavier characters buffs aswell. First off we gotta realise that there are different kinds of metagames in smash. I've noticed the heavy characters play more defensive and wait for an opening..but for some strange reason you guys are trying to buff them offensively. What i am saying is instead of changing there KB and modding there frames, just give bowser less shieldstun and push, this would make the faster character think twice before approaching and also give bowser the advantage of doing what he does best...attacking out of his shield.

What i am trying to say overall is some characters are defensive(bowser,samus etc.) and some are offensive (sheik,meta etc.) But if you remembered correctly in melee..there were versatile characters..such as Fox and marth.

This is where i move on to the laser debate. Ok why do you ppl wanna cap falcos lasers?! oh yea because he can camp. well ladies and gentlemen, That is falcos defensive game and it only puts him where he always has been since melee to vbrawl *in the top tier roster*, I know b+ is all about balance, but as someone stated NO game can ever be balanced.

Anyway. I wanna say that falco and wolf have an upside to there laser game first off wolf can Di his lasers, plus he gets an added damage effect when your close to him. Falco already has stun with his laser aswell...what about Fox... This is where i scratch my head, Fox no longer is versatile, because his laser game has been nerfed drastically. Why?! well i'll say why, Fox no longer has the ability to DI with his lasers this cuts his laser game and thus makes him an offensive character instead of a versatile character like his melee and N64 counter part, besides that his range has been cut, and you should also know with momentum retreat lasers can take you off the edge of the stage and only lead to being gimped upon returning.

i am saying that Top tier characters will existed. I just want you guys to know that some characters are based off of offense some defense and others are just that good. The one thing that over comes all of this is MINDGAMES.

fixd for better reading

 

[abcool]

I haven't figured out the keys on how to space for paragraphs on this site yet. :/

 

[leafgreen386]

If you are going to "pull a cape" do it with something that isnt actually a legit problem.

The fact that the ICers have an unDIable infinite and its relatively easy to setup is rather stupid. I still like the idea of removing Nana grab which still allows them to do some 0 to death CGs but it also gives the other player a chance to DI, SDI, or tech out.

So you like the idea of nerfing a middle tier character (at best)? Awesome. In vB, the ICs are #18 on the tier list, at the bottom of C tier. They really didn't gain much from brawl+, and in fact, I'd say they lost more than they gained. If we do anything to the IC's grabs, then they need to be buffed in some way in return.

If we're going to "fix" their infinite, then I'd probably want to do it by preventing nana from grabbing for "x" frames after popo performs a throw. This preserves everything else they have while just taking away the infinite. They would be able to do a total of one alternate grab, and only if nana got that initial grab. If we do this, then I'm going to propose that we exempt the ICs from the shieldstun code.

 

[ph00tbag]

If you are going to "pull a cape" do it with something that isnt actually a legit problem.

The fact that the ICers have an unDIable infinite and its relatively easy to setup is rather stupid. I still like the idea of removing Nana grab which still allows them to do some 0 to death CGs but it also gives the other player a chance to DI, SDI, or tech out.

I don't think you can escape from the footstool -> ice-block reset CG, actually. But with that in mind, they don't really need the grab infinite, so disabling Nana grab is a good idea, IMO.

Although, the full charge usmash out of Nana uthrow would suffer, so I don't know.

 

[Ulevo]

The fact that the ICers have an unDIable infinite and its relatively easy to setup is rather stupid.

Exactly how is this stupid? And please elaborate on how this is easy to set up?

Last time I looked, Ice Climbers weren't winning vBrawl tourneys. In fact, most except for top players like Lain and Ambrose don't even place well. And this is in the version of Brawl with no L Cancel, and ridiculously low shield stun, along with slower characters.

So exactly how is this stupid? Please explain why. Rather stupid isn't a reason for a nerf or modification.

 

[Blank Mauser]

What? Alternate grabs are somehow a problem? Thats news to me.

The Dthrow CG can only be done until the edge of the stage, the alternating grabs take skill and are dependent on character weight and percentage. Even if you can stall with Popo, you'd have to move in order to keep up. Getting resynced takes some work, especially when combos **** both of them even more now.

Plus there are too many factors like shieldstun, aerial momentum and lag reduction that get in the way of grabs. IC's have never been top tier in any game even with their infinites because they don't excel in many other situations.

I don't think you can escape from the footstool -> ice-block reset CG, actually. But with that in mind, they don't really need the grab infinite, so disabling Nana grab is a good idea, IMO.

The jab lock code makes this harder to do when the person SDI's right. I doubt you'll be able to do a pivot grab after an ice block reset because they both move too far, and get up too fast. Not to mention it still takes Nana to actually pull it off.