The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Blank Mauser]

The locks have already been removed by editing the frame speed of the bounces. Samus' missiles didn't really get faster themselves, but they now have less lag so you can shoot more faster.

 

[A Diamond For Disease]

Oh ok that's cool when i get a sd card my friend might want to play samus again haha. He mained her in melee and hated her in brawl.

 

[goodoldganon]

Oh ok that's cool when i get a sd card my friend might want to play samus again haha. He mained her in melee and hated her in brawl.

She was my main along with Ganondorf in Melee and I'm still not the hugest fan of her, but she is A LOT more fun now a days then in the original Brawl. I really just miss a good charge shot and the pimp D-smash with crouch canceling.

 

[A Diamond For Disease]

She was my main along with Ganondorf in Melee and I'm still not the hugest fan of her, but she is A LOT more fun now a days then in the original Brawl. I really just miss a good charge shot and the pimp D-smash with crouch canceling.

Yes that's true about the d-smash and the charge shot. I mained doc and ganon myself, but i was never amazing or anything. i was just starting to get ok when brawl came out and that gimped my melee skills haha. But I'm definitely excited to try B+. Oh and it the plussery code set does the c-stick make you FF on aerials?

 

[shanus]

So, I've been livestreaming for the past few days using our in-development Beta 3.3 and decided to put together a mini combo vid of the clips collected (3 hours of live footage):


CLICK HERE FOR AWESOME

 

[GameSystem]

Oh and in the plussery code set does the c-stick make you FF on aerials?

No. They made a code where you can press c stick down and not fast fall. You can take it off if you want if you use the txt.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

why isn't "it's boring lame and unfun" an unfair argument against zero deaths? this is a game. a game is meant to be fun. a game we can edit in almost any way we wish. we aren't playing vbrawl anymore, we aren't latching onto melee; the world is our oyster.. just because melee tournaments allow it doesn't mean we shouldn't fix something that's obviously stupid. we can make the characters as powerful or as weak as we wish.

i think that getting rid of the russian roulette play style of ice climbers would help greatly in making them more interesting to play.. and less boring to play against. if you want to run around waiting for a grab so you can 0death someone, go play vbrawl.. this is brawl+.. i want fun speed activate.

if it takes 10 lines (how many lines does bowser's thick skin take?) of code to make them viable.. then so be it.. but i don't want death chain grabs in my brawl+.. no sir.

 

[SketchHurricane]

why isn't "it's boring lame and unfun" a fair argument against zero deaths?

fixed

Fun is not a factor in the competitive discussion of a game. It's not necessarily wrong for us to factor fun into our consideration, but we just need to stay aware that the goal of B+ is primarily to make brawl a more competitive game. It's the sole reason there are separate threads for non-competitive codes.

Now I don't like getting 0-deathed either (no one does), but it's not just about what we like. No one likes getting combo'd either, does that mean we should have second guessed hitstun? Should we take out every guaranteed combo?

The point is that it's not as simple as "it ain't fun," hence the lengthy discussion.

 

[kupo15]

But sketch, I find nothing about a simple, easy, uncontrollable death chain grab competitive in any sense of the word. Its no worse than DDDs standing infinite. For popo's dthow CG, I would at least like it to put you in the tumble so you can DI better and tech away if they are not accurate instead of handing them 90% on a silver platter

 

[Green Squiggly]

I've been playing the brawl+ codeset for the last week and seriously, kudos to you guys. I can't imagine going back to vanilla Brawl after playing this for only five minutes.

Yesterday my cousin and myself were playing it nonstop to get a feel for the changes and I noticed that snakes ftilt you can just spam the first part (knee) over and over and the opponent can't do a thing. Sanke is one of my mains, but I feel this is quite overpowered.

My cousing who mains ROB said that he doesn't grab the ledge everytime he uses his upB and was wondering what affected this.

Also I love how Bowser feels, He is my personal favorite and even though he can't combo like the rest of the cast he can still hold his own. I love being able to use a fresh Fortress everytime Oh, and the last thing is can someone explain to me exactly what the "Bowser don't care" code does exactly? Is it like a psudo super armor?

 

[Almas]

Snake's ftilt thing can be escaped given proper DI, or teching, or something. It's hardly an issue once you know what do to, like many other things.

ROB does have issues grabbing the ledge because of how the No Auto-Sweetspot code works. I recommend you try tapping B over and over whilst close to the edge - it'll let you grapple it much easier. Alternatively, try recovering high - ROB's Nair has a decent hitbox below him.

Bowser's Thick Skin causes him to take less damage from all attacks. The effect is more noticable on weak or multi-hit moves (such as Metaknight's Tornado, or Fox' Lasers).

 

[kupo15]

The ROB thing is because of the no auto sweet spot ledges. Just make sure he is traveling down or else he can't grab the ledges. Rob should be fine because he can use uair for protection.

Snakes ftilt is techable if you time it right. We are working on making teching easier.

Glad you enjoy it. Spread the word!

 

[goodoldganon]

I've been playing the brawl+ codeset for the last week and seriously, kudos to you guys. I can't imagine going back to vanilla Brawl after playing this for only five minutes.

Yesterday my cousin and myself were playing it nonstop to get a feel for the changes and I noticed that snakes ftilt you can just spam the first part (knee) over and over and the opponent can't do a thing. Sanke is one of my mains, but I feel this is quite overpowered.

My cousing who mains ROB said that he doesn't grab the ledge everytime he uses his upB and was wondering what affected this.

Also I love how Bowser feels, He is my personal favorite and even though he can't combo like the rest of the cast he can still hold his own. I love being able to use a fresh Fortress everytime Oh, and the last thing is can someone explain to me exactly what the "Bowser don't care" code does exactly? Is it like a psudo super armor?

Snakes F-tilt needs to be Smash DI'd down and away from him to escape that lock.

Auto Snap Ledges are gone so you gotta place that recovery right. I'm no ROB main but I recover higher now and use aerials as cover to get back onto the stage.

Bowser Don't Care shrugs off a certain percentage of damage based on a mathematical formula. An in game example is Ganondorf's d-air hits for 22% normally but against Bowser it is only 19%.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I'm all for suggestions on the IC side of things. I just think that the people who are asking for the infinites to be removed are not providing the additional buffs that would be needed. Could an IC main tell us what mains would be good for the IC that would keep them unique but help them be more competative in the advent of their infinites being removed?

 

[SketchHurricane]

But sketch, I find nothing about a simple, easy, uncontrollable death chain grab competitive in any sense of the word. Its no worse than DDDs standing infinite. For popo's dthow CG, I would at least like it to put you in the tumble so you can DI better and tech away if they are not accurate instead of handing them 90% on a silver platter

It's competitive in the sense that it's what makes them viable at the moment, and it's so far been proven avoidable at high level play. The only thing keeping it in discussion is that it matters to them as a character. If it didn't matter so much, we would have probably already decided what to do about it.

Note that I'm not arguing for or against it in this case, I was just answering the initial question of why fun has nothing to do with the discussion. Simply stating why it's not a simple decision. Quite simply, I enjoy saying simply quite a bit. It's that simple, really. It's simply not that simple.



Simple.

 

[Green Squiggly]

Wow you guys are fast on the replies. Thanks a lot. I've already been spreading the word about brawl+. Where I live we have about 30 or so semi-serious brawl players and I've already let most of them know about it. I hope to get all of them playing it so I can do a small tourney with it.

I gotta say this again I love the Bowser buffs. I hope that if this catches on I can comfortably main Bowser at tournaments, because with vBrawl I had no other choice to have Snake as my opener in sets because Bowser gets ***** by anything that looks like TLink, Oli and Samus and Falco (Which just so happen to be what I play against all the time.)

 

[goodoldganon]

I agree with Sketch, simply put he outlined everything about the IC that even though isn't the most fun to fight against, still works.

Now how many people have fought some good Lucario's? Am I just DI'ing poorly or is there some trick to escaping his u-tilt? Anyone that isn't a fast faller gets juggled by that to some sick percents. Sometimes I get lucky and escape, but it just leads into a tech chase and I get punished.

 

[CountKaiser]

Semantics aside, there's hardly anything fair about an infinite where the victim has no input on whether it works or not. Only problem is, it seems that this infinite is what IC mains are striving for, even though they claim that it isn't really possible to pull it off consistently. It'd be nice if they offered a buff that the IC could use so that they are still tourney viable.

We could give them the Link treatment and reduce their aerial lag even more. We could make a move finish faster(can't make it end faster due to hitboxes coming out in an odd manner).

Now then, if the infinite were to be taken out, what buff could we give the IC? This is a hypothetical question, and a straight answer is required. Don't answer with "don't take away the infinite", this is assuming the worst case scenario.

 

[Ulevo]

why isn't "it's boring lame and unfun" a fair argument against zero deaths?

Because "fun" and "unfun" are arbitrary, subjective, and nothing to base proper decisions on. How would you feel if I walked in here and started telling you, and everyone else that taking out sweet spot ledges is stupid because I think it's unfun and boring? You can say the same thing about items, about combos, about characters, about anything. I can argue here that we need to delete every stage in Brawl except for 75m and Norfair because the other stages don't promote fun. Do you realize has stupid that sounds?

You want to know what the difference is between winning and fun? Winning is winning. You either win, you lose, or you draw. There are no other out comes. It is simplistic, decisive, and there is no room for error or debate. It is as it is. And this is soley what competitive games are based off of; winning. And thus, we can make proper decisions based on this.

If we go by what you and everyone else believes to be fun, we'd be making biased, improper, subjective, arbitrary decisions that have no logical order or sense on what it is we're trying to achieve. And lets not forget, Brawl Plus is still a competitive game.

this is a game. a game is meant to be fun. a game we can edit in almost any way we wish. we aren't playing vbrawl anymore, we aren't latching onto melee;

We're still playing a competitive game. If you want to go play for fun, go play Brawl with your own codes. Competitive Brawl Plus has the intention of fair, balanced competition in which skill is the most important factor in deciding the out come of a match. Your decisions on fun do not support these purposes.

the world is our oyster.. just because melee tournaments allow it doesn't mean we shouldn't fix something that's obviously stupid.

I'm going to get this out of the way. You think it's stupid. And you know what, probably some other people do too. But just because you put the word "obviously" beside "stupid" does not mean that your opinion automatically holds truth or value. That is still your opinion, and to be very blunt, it isn't obviously stupid. Keep it to yourself.

we can make the characters as powerful or as weak as we wish.

The goal is still maintain balance. Weakening the Ice Climbers by removing their best and only asset that makes them truly viable for competitive play at high levels is not promoting balance. Argue against this, not whether or not it is fun.

i think that getting rid of the russian roulette play style of ice climbers would help greatly in making them more interesting to play..

Russian Roulette? What the hell? We're not playing Yu-Gi-Oh. There's nothing random about Ice Climbers CGs, or anything else in their playstyle. If you're grabbed at a percent higher than 30%, you're screwed. They have weaknesses to compensate for that fact and to help eliminate the character prior to this happening in a match. It balances out. There's nothing random about it.

and less boring to play against.

Guess what? I think your idea of Brawl, and what you're suggesting, is boring.

Try to argue that. I dare you.

if you want to run around waiting for a grab so you can 0death someone, go play vbrawl.. this is brawl+.. i want fun speed activate.

It's not about what you want. It's about how to make the character roster as balanced as possible so that everyone can play on equal footing, to reward the skill of the player, rather than the strategy or character used.

If you don't agree with this motion, use logical reasoning as to why this disrupts balance within the game to justify why this shouldn't be done. If you can't, and don't like it, I suggest you play something else for your fun speed activate.

if it takes 10 lines (how many lines does bowser's thick skin take?) of code to make them viable.. then so be it.. but i don't want death chain grabs in my brawl+.. no sir.

Go play another fighter.

But sketch, I find nothing about a simple, easy, uncontrollable death chain grab competitive in any sense of the word. Its no worse than DDDs standing infinite. For popo's dthow CG, I would at least like it to put you in the tumble so you can DI better and tech away if they are not accurate instead of handing them 90% on a silver platter

It is in fact worse than Dedede's standing infinite.

King Dedede has significantly longer grab range than Ice Climbers. King Dedede can do this technique reliably on any stage, and he has no requirements in order to pull it off. In order for the Ice Climbers to achieve a CG to death, they need the following:

- To be desynched
- For Nana to be near by, and alive
- For a grab to connect while the previous two requirements are met

Once Nana is gone, Ice Climbers no longer have that advantage. If Nana is knocked off stage, or too far away, the CG cannot occur. You're not automatically dead once grabbed, there is set up involved. King Dedede had no set up required, and his grab range allowed him to execute the infinite effortlessly. Might I also add that Dedede was a very good character, even without the CG or Infinite involved? The same cannot be stated for the Ice Climbers.

And again, you may not even be grabbed until very high percents, in which case, it doesn't even really matter. Many characters in Brawl Plus can kill you from a grab at higher percents. Just learn how to space properly, and how to seperate Nana from Popo. It's not difficult to do, especially with the buffs everyone has received.

 

[Shadic]

So, I've been livestreaming for the past few days using our in-development Beta 3.3 and decided to put together a mini combo vid of the clips collected (3 hours of live footage):

I see momentum. I'm happy.

 

[kupo15]

IIRC correctly, didn't all dthrows in melee send people into the tumble even at 0%? Just curious

And Ulevo, I don't think the CG should be removed, but what's the harm in making the dthrow with popo techable at 0%? The CG would still be there but more skill would be required to perform that which I think makes for better competition.

 

[Ulevo]

IIRC correctly, didn't all dthrows in melee send people into the tumble even at 0%? Just curious

And Ulevo, I don't think the CG should be removed, but what's the harm in making the dthrow with popo techable at 0%? The CG would still be there but more skill would be required to perform that which I think makes for better competition.

It could be worth a try. How would you make it techable though, if I may ask?

I know for a fact that Ambrose caught me a lot of Saturday due to Popos single Dthrow CG. Actually, half the time I lost to Popo by himself.

 

[SCOTU]

IIRC correctly, didn't all dthrows in melee send people into the tumble even at 0%? Just curious

technically, fox and falco's dthrows send people into Meteor Tumble, and falco's when done to fox on the ground, just makes fox stand there (until higher percents).

Also, i totally lulzed at "IIRC correctly" If I Recall Correctly correctly.

 

[kupo15]

It could be worth a try. How would you make it techable though, if I may ask?

I know for a fact that Ambrose caught me a lot of Saturday due to Popos single Dthrow CG. Actually, half the time I lost to Popo by himself.

Well, the dthrow is considered a weak hit. We can modify this property to make it a strong hit so you can go into the tumble at 0% but I think we might need to wait until gecko 2 comes out

technically, fox and falco's dthrows send people into Meteor Tumble, and falco's when done to fox on the ground, just makes fox stand there (until higher percents).

Also, i totally lulzed at "IIRC correctly" If I Recall Correctly correctly.

lulz. Yea those were the exceptions but at least they were techable which is what I was going for

 

[CountKaiser]

Since people missed this, I'll post it again.

Semantics aside, there's hardly anything fair about an infinite where the victim has no input on whether it works or not. Only problem is, it seems that this infinite is what IC mains are striving for, even though they claim that it isn't really possible to pull it off consistently. It'd be nice if they offered a buff that the IC could use so that they are still tourney viable.

We could give them the Link treatment and reduce their aerial lag even more. We could make a move finish faster(can't make it end faster due to hitboxes coming out in an odd manner).

Now then, if the infinite were to be taken out, what buff could we give the IC? This is a hypothetical question, and a straight answer is required. Don't answer with "don't take away the infinite", this is assuming the worst case scenario.

 

[Digitalism]

Well, the chain grab is what makes ICs interesting and appealing. So if you were to take that away, you'd have to find a new and unique playstyle for them. Maybe I'm just being close-minded, but I think they should keep the grab.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Well, the chain grab is what makes ICs interesting and appealing. So if you were to take that away, you'd have to find a new and unique playstyle for them. Maybe I'm just being close-minded, but I think they should keep the grab.

We don't want to take the grab if possible, just make it non infinite. There's no easy way to do that at the moment, if it's even possible. I've posted a few ideas that I might bring back up, but I don't know if the coders are even thinking about it at the moment either.

 

[kupo15]

Well, the chain grab is what makes ICs interesting and appealing. So if you were to take that away, you'd have to find a new and unique playstyle for them. Maybe I'm just being close-minded, but I think they should keep the grab.

as I said. Keep the CG. Add some skill

 

[Heavyarms2050]

any idea when the next update going to be?

 

[shanus]

Monday is our goal

 

[Cero]

Can we just make it so that we only get one Brawl air dodge while in the air. (Not asking for wavedashing) I believe this would help boost the combo and edgeguard games.

Can we also make it so footstooling is harder to do. (like making it so your character has to be almost inside the other character like Jigg's rest or Luigi's fire punch) I'm tired of accidentally footstooling my opponent when I'm trying to gimp him.

Also, there's that glitch the computer abuses a lot where the cpu's character gets a footstool jump off of you without actually footstooling you. I'd like for that to at least be fixed.

And, this is really just a suggestion, but, what about having Melee power shielding back? Was this already discussed? It took skill to repeatedly power shield Falco's lasers in Melee. This would help non-projectile characters like Captain Falcon and Ganondorf combat spam from characters like Falco.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Some solutions that have been said

1) Disable Nana grab (probably easy)

2) Make IC grabs extra mashable (harder)
- If we could control the mashability curve for IC grabs only, we could make it so they could get increasingly more grabs in as the damage goes up while still making it escapable in the lower percents. It forces the IC's to be faster with the grab, which promotes skill. Hell, we could probably make grabs more mashable across the board, since most people throw immediately anyway.

3) Limit grabs using the stale move queue? (probably hardest)

That's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

the footstool thing isn't a glitch. it's just the computer footstooling you while you're in a non "meteor"able position if you know what i mean (like hanging on the edge, you can't be spiked by a footstool hanging on an edge so they just kind of hop off of you).

 

[Shell]

Cero:

Higher gravity levels mean you're less likely to have time to do more than one air dodge anyways.

If we had lines and there was an easy way to do it, I'd like to see the "hitbox" of footstooling shrunk as well, although this sounds like a difficult thing to do. (Then I wouldn't be able to cape -> footstool SMK. Lulz.)

CPUs are beyond low priority right now.

Powershielding is good right now. It takes more skill to pull of than vBrawl, but less than Melee. Consequently there's less reward but it's more frequent.

 

[SketchHurricane]

the footstool thing isn't a glitch. it's just the computer footstooling you while you're in a non "meteor"able position if you know what i mean (like hanging on the edge, you can't be spiked by a footstool hanging on an edge so they just kind of hop off of you).

Which reminds: we should disable footstool for any state other than being in the air/being on the ground. That would prevent those annoying super footstools that shouldn't even happen.

 

[Cero]

Cero:

Higher gravity levels mean you're less likely to have time to do more than one air dodge anyways.

Okay, then what about edgeguarding? I hate taking the risk to u-air someone with Captain Falcon off the stage and all he does to turn the tables on me is air dodge and go for the edge.

Also, I forgot to add, after the air dodge we should go back to our helpless falling states like in Melee.
Makes you think about using that air dodge more conservatively.

 

[Shell]

We've talked about this -- no offstage AD makes you too vulnerable to projectile spam and some characters just don't have quick enough attacks to avoid / counteract an edgeguard attempts (especially Ike). I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much with stuff we've already covered though.

 

[Cero]

Oh, I see. Well, thanks for talking it out with me though.
I've been lurking for a while and I just wanted to put in something.

 

[B!squick]

Bowsers feels REALLY watered down in Brawl+. And no, it's not that Klaw Hopping is harder, it's just that it's pointless. Here's my comparison between the two:


Brawl: Klaw Jumping was nice because it allowed for lagless jumping, which is nice. It meant you could even use BAir somewhat near the ground and not suffer from landing lag.
Brawl+: Now that Bowser suffers virturally no landing lag from either jumping or his aerials, even DAir, and can even jump higher, Klaw Hopping is obsolete. Which is good, I guess. His aerials are more spamable, but it still seems like his approach options took a big blow from this, since the aerials still have their other problems still intact, namely the range of both NAir and DAir. Plus with everyone else being faster as well... and is it just me, or is Klaw's range shorter?

Brawl: It use to be that at low percents with proper DI reading you could usually follow a Klaw up with another Klaw, a FAir, UAir, whatever.
Brawl+: In the FFA games I played against CPUs and a quick test I performed in training against a Mario, I'm finding it impossible to follow it up with anything. :/

Brawl: Fortress = virtually unbeatable priority.
Brawl+: Does it no longer have invincibily? I slowed down the game to 1/4 speed and I didn't notice any flashing. If so, that would explain why it seems like the priority of this move was drasically reduced.

Brawl: Bowser is heavy and hard to KO.
Brawl+: Bowser takes ever so slighty less damage, but because of the added hitstun this is pointless and since he's lighter AND Fortress now has priority issues, he is really easy to KO.

Brawl+ Firebreath > Brawl Firebreath = Start up lag and end lag comparison
BUT
Brawl+ Firebreath < Brawl Firebreath in the end, because it seems a lot easier to DI out of it now. So, again, more spamable, though I wouldn't say batter at all in the end since it use to deal nice damage at least some of the time.

Brawl: FSmash was fantastic for punishing and being punished if timed and/or spaced improperly.
Brawl+: FSmash is quicker and if it's shielded the amount of push back the opponent receives keeps YOU from being punished. It's lost that, "Ah ha! I have you now!" feeling and is, again, more spammable. I'm beginning to see a partern here...

Brawl: Grab release shinanegans.
Brawl+: No grab release shinanegans.
^I'm leaving this out because I knew about it before hand and it's from keeping infinites out of the picture, though this WAS one key feature that made Bowser decent.


These are just my first impressions and I'm more than willing to play around with it some more, but I can't imagine how impossible and not fun it is to play as Bowser against an actual person. I like you guys are trying to make the game better, but nerfing an okay character which happens to be my favorite.... eh...

 

[Eaode]

You're definitely imagining a lot of those, because bowser's attributes in those areas have not changed at all. the only one i see that's valid is the Klaw jumping thing, and probably the Klaw trajectory (what with grav mods and stuff.)