The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Dark Sonic]

^^With Gecko OS 2.0 being delayed, we're going to be kinda tight on line space. Codes that look for a certain action in game generally take more space than global modifiers

 

[GHNeko]

Delayed..? I thought it was straight up canceled.

 

[leafgreen386]

Supposedly, someone is still working on it, but don't count on it coming out any time soon, and it still may not come out at all. So don't get your hopes up too high.

 

[PanzerOceania]

kupo is working on getting the variable buffer with the handicap. Also, ...

Sure Brawl+ feels kind of like Brawl, but really it is farther away from Brawl then we ever intended. That's not a bad thing since it plays well. EITHER WAY, what I'm getting at is we are gonna have an influx of newcomers (as we are seeing now) coming to test these changes and it's a lot to process. The last thing we want is for them to feel uncomfortable with the controls.

I agree a lower buffer is probably the way to go for tournament play (2 unless we get that handicap = buffer code) but new players need to start with the vBrawl buffer. They can graduate after they have the physics changes down.

I agree for newcomers, but they are gonna have to make adjustments, I think they just need to be told that there is an adjustment, and maybe suggest stair stepping down, but we really all should be working towards a lower buffer. We are already adjusting to all the other differences, it's hard at first but as many people are saying, it doesn't take but a week to readjust and once you do it's great.

 

[Ulevo]

if you find 0-death chain grabs enjoyable and acceptable in a game where we can change a character in almost any imaginable way, nothing i can say will persuade you to think otherwise.

Of course not, because you have not once given me a proper reason why I should believe they are not acceptable. You have not used any logical argument to refute my belief that they should be left alone. You just claim that it's not fun. Well, who asked you? What if I think it's fun? What if I believe the idea of CGing my opponent with Ice Climbers is enjoyable, or that attempting to avoid these CGs in a match with another character is exciting? Anything in Brawl can be claimed to be fun, or not. So if anyone can decide anything based on what is and isn't fun, how do you expect to make a proper decision? What part of this is hard for you to understand?

I play this game for fun. However, I will not use my biased, arbitrary opinion on what is and isn't fun as the center piece to decide what is and isn't healthy for Brawl Plus, its developement, its community, and its players.

So no. With the lack of intelligent quality you present to me, you won't persuade me to think otherwise.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I would say that while it might not be practical to do, more predictability as far as infinites or 0 to death combos usually equates to less fun to most people. That's just the general rule, of course it doesn't apply, some people say ice climbers are fun like that. I'm kinda neutral on the matter, I still haven't heard and realistic alternatives, but i will say that if characters tactics are less predictable and they still play in their own unique way, than that IS more fun, the question is, can someone come up with a solution that provides that and keeps them balanced and competitive. it's not an easy feat.

 

[goodoldganon]

An irrelevant, yet hilarious glitch is Wario can stay in Wario-Man mode forever if he SDs while he is Wario-Man. I had a load of laughs watching 4 Wario-Mans doing there thing.

EDIT: Yes Panzer, I believe new players should know about the buffer system and the changes it can bring to your timing, but when you first test the game a 10 frame buffer is the way to go. Just make sure people know the tournament standard will be 1 or 2 and they can join in on that set when the time comes.

Of all the codes I have used, buffer caused the most complaints with new players.

 

[cooler1339]

If we keep any 0-deaths I will have lost hope in this whole thing. Why ever get rid of a chain grab if you keep a 0-death? I would rather get chained than lose a whole stock.

 

[GHNeko]

Of all the codes I have used, buffer caused the most complaints with new players.

Pretty much this. Alot of the people I talked to mentioned their inability to do certain things because of a lowered buffer.

 

[goodoldganon]

Pretty much this. Alot of the people I talked to mentioned their inability to do certain things because of a lowered buffer.

Don't get us wrong, I'm totally fine with a 2 frame buffer and can do virtually everything I want to do with a 2 frame buffer, it's just new players aren't able to digest it all at once. Either way, my point is made hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

 

[cooler1339]

Part of being a new player is being bad. Tell them to get over it.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I am kind of torn on that, on the one hand, local people you can tell you just give it a week, on the other hand, people bringing this to tournaments could potentially turn a ton of people off of it

:/

which is bad.

That is the only problem I foresee, but hopefully if they see people who are accustomed to it then that will be proof of concept.

 

[matt4300]

An irrelevant, yet hilarious glitch is Wario can stay in Wario-Man mode forever if he SDs while he is Wario-Man. I had a load of laughs watching 4 Wario-Mans doing there thing.

EDIT: Yes Panzer, I believe new players should know about the buffer system and the changes it can bring to your timing, but when you first test the game a 10 frame buffer is the way to go. Just make sure people know the tournament standard will be 1 or 2 and they can join in on that set when the time comes.

Of all the codes I have used, buffer caused the most complaints with new players.

Once brawl + has all of the nessesary codes down. It would be benificial to the community to have a thread that documents all glitches that we can find in brawl +.

Some people won't know that bowser cant gain health from healing items or that wario can keep his final smash indefinutly after an sd.

Think about it, and if someone (not me) has the time to make this thread. Please do.
It can also be linked in the sticky brawl + topic up.

 

[GHNeko]

Don't get us wrong, I'm totally fine with a 2 frame buffer and can do virtually everything I want to do with a 2 frame buffer, it's just new players aren't able to digest it all at once. Either way, my point is made hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

I know. I was just relying my own experiences.

I personally would like to try 2 buffer but I keep forgetting to do so and where the code is.

 

[GPDP]

i Know. I Was Just Relying My Own Experiences.

I Personally Would Like To Try 2 Buffer But I Keep Forgetting To Do So And Where The Code Is.

0485b784 38600002

 

[kupo15]

I know. I was just relying my own experiences.

I personally would like to try 2 buffer but I keep forgetting to do so and where the code is.

My OP is amazing. You should stumble upon it sometimes with ctrl F xD

 

[Shell]

So my friend and I are pulling an all-nighter for our Biochem exam tomorrow morning. We're taking smash breaks. I repped Lucas and he seems to be doing well with the changes (u-tilt, grab). I don't know if SCOTU was using these codes, but I'd say he's a far cry from sucking. If you really want to buff him some more though, I suggest you find a value of his u-smash lag that's balanced but a little bit more useful due to Brawl+'s faster DC'd runs into smashes and higher vertical kill percents on many characters.

Edit: the frames are:

0 start attack (duh )

28 hitbox comes out

58 hitbox ends

98 lag ends

 

[GHNeko]

My OP is amazing. You should stumble upon it sometimes with ctrl F xD

SHUSH YOU. I forget that OP exists.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Of course not, because you have not once given me a proper reason why I should believe they are not acceptable. You have not used any logical argument to refute my belief that they should be left alone. You just claim that it's not fun. Well, who asked you? What if I think it's fun? What if I believe the idea of CGing my opponent with Ice Climbers is enjoyable, or that attempting to avoid these CGs in a match with another character is exciting? Anything in Brawl can be claimed to be fun, or not. So if anyone can decide anything based on what is and isn't fun, how do you expect to make a proper decision? What part of this is hard for you to understand?

I play this game for fun. However, I will not use my biased, arbitrary opinion on what is and isn't fun as the center piece to decide what is and isn't healthy for Brawl Plus, its developement, its community, and its players.

So no. With the lack of intelligent quality you present to me, you won't persuade me to think otherwise.

wow if i have to explain to you why an inescapable 0-death chain grab isn't fun then plz don't ever go into professional game development. you would make the worst games ever

 

[Ja]

final smashes?

This is probably really ambitious/hard to do. With that it mind it would be really cool if you could code in a super meter for characters than once filled gives them their final smash. It would be even cooler if the super meter was somehow visible. The simplest things to reward would be throwing out attacks (not necessarily connecting), or dealing damage.

 

[Blank Mauser]

wow if i have to explain to you why an inescapable 0-death chain grab isn't fun then plz don't ever go into professional game development. you would make the worst games ever

Its called competition for a reason. People have stated before, but when you're on the losing side there aren't going to be many things that are fun. Getting combo'd isn't fun, neither is getting edgehogged all of your stocks with tether chars. That doesn't mean it won't happen though.

I'm sure many Ice Climbers find being rewarded for having good timing and tech skill to be satisfying.

 

[trojanpooh]

And you know what else isn't fun? Having your Nana targeted so you have a crap recovery and no chain grab. It a bit of a trade off.

 

[kupo15]

Its called competition for a reason. People have stated before, but when you're on the losing side there aren't going to be many things that are fun. Getting combo'd isn't fun, neither is getting edgehogged all of your stocks with tether chars. That doesn't mean it won't happen though.

I'm sure many Ice Climbers find being rewarded for having good timing and tech skill to be satisfying.

There is nothing competitive about getting 0-death and you can't do jack about it. It would be better if the 0-death involved some more skill to do.

 

[trojanpooh]

I agree with kupo. 0-deaths should be removed because there lack of competitiveness (not to be mistaken as lack of fun for opponent).

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Need I point out that infinites do exist in other fighters (two of which is still very popular and very competitive?).

@Kupo, since you believe that the infinites should require more skill, how do you feel about the throw->footstool->iceblock reset->regrab infinite? And the Ice Climber's infinite really does take some skill. It's weight specific, size specific, and stage specific, meaning that the Ice Climbers must practice the infinite with all of these variables in order to preform it correctly (if a single one of these doesn't match up then they will mis-time the regrab.) It's not like you can just pick up Ice Climbers for the first time and perform the infinite. Heck, even melee Ice Climber's players have to practice the infinite for a while, despite the fact that they're already comfortable with Desyncing.

Doesn't take much practice for them, but now we're going into very subjective territory over "how much practice makes something skillful?"

 

[Ulevo]

wow if i have to explain to you why an inescapable 0-death chain grab isn't fun then plz don't ever go into professional game development. you would make the worst games ever

You don't get it, do you? I never said they were fun. I never said they were not fun. I've never claimed anything of the sort. You have. When I face an Ice Climbers main, and I get grabbed, I do not enjoy the experience anymore than the next player. That doesn't mean there is a problem with that tactic, or that it distorts game balance, which is precisely what is important.

Do you know what fighting game communities refer to players like you as? Take a gander at David Sirlins book Playing To Win. You'll find out rather quickly.

There is nothing competitive about getting 0-death and you can't do jack about it. It would be better if the 0-death involved some more skill to do.

There is nothing competitive about getting combo'd and you can't do jack about it. It would be better if the combo involved some more skill to do.

See what I did there?

The only time something is at risk of being less competitive is when a specific strategy becomes centralized due to being overpowered, or broken. This is not the case here. You're using the word competitive in the wrong context, or for the wrong purpose.

You can argue it isn't enjoyable, but that's not really the point here. If the Ice Climbers are balanced, and they are, there should not be a problem. If you feel they are not balanced, prove me otherwise with statistics, numbers, tactics, tournament results, and other evidence. Not this "you can't do jack" or "it makes the game unfun" crap.

Does that mean you don't have control? No, it doesn't.

You can still prevent the grab, which is not a hard task to accomplish. Ice Climbers are a flawed character by design. Separate the Ice Climbers, kill Nana, space well, use throws to throw off their desynch strategies... It isn't difficult.

I don't understand why we are going off the limb to nerf a character that isn't winning tournaments even remotely close to say Snake or Falco (forget Meta Knight), or even placing well, except for a select few players. Sure, we'll leave the SS/S Tier alone, we'll go after the character sitting at the bottom of C Tier.

You guys REALLY need to straighten out priorities.

EDIT: OH, and for those of you questioning the skill involved. Please, pick up Ice Climbers and go to a tournament. If you place in Top 4 surrounding a tourney of more than 40 people, I might consider what it is you're saying. Ice Climbers are not easy to play. The infinite is not easy to execute without consistent practice. And most of all, the grab needed for the infinite isn't easy to land. Why do you think players other than Ambrose/Lain are not winning or really placing well, if it is so easy?

 

[shanus]

You don't get it, do you? I never said they were fun. I never said they were not fun. I've never claimed anything of the sort. You have. When I face an Ice Climbers main, and I get grabbed, I do not enjoy the experience anymore than the next player. That doesn't mean there is a problem with that tactic, or that it distorts game balance, which is precisely what is important.

Do you know what fighting game communities refer to players like you as? Take a gander at David Sirlins book Playing To Win. You'll find out rather quickly.





See what I did there?

The only time something is at risk of being less competitive is when a specific strategy becomes centralized due to being overpowered, or broken. This is not the case here. You're using the word competitive in the wrong context, or for the wrong purpose.

You can argue it isn't enjoyable, but that's not really the point here. If the Ice Climbers are balanced, and they are, there should not be a problem. If you feel they are not balanced, prove me otherwise with statistics, numbers, tactics, tournament results, and other evidence. Not this "you can't do jack" or "it makes the game unfun" crap.

Does that mean you don't have control? No, it doesn't.

You can still prevent the grab, which is not a hard task to accomplish. Ice Climbers are a flawed character by design. Separate the Ice Climbers, kill Nana, space well, use throws to throw off their desynch strategies... It isn't difficult.

I don't understand why we are going off the limb to nerf a character that isn't winning tournaments even remotely close to say Snake or Falco (forget Meta Knight), or even placing well, except for a select few players. Sure, we'll leave the SS/S Tier alone, we'll go after the character sitting at the bottom of C Tier.

You guys REALLY need to straighten out priorities.

EDIT: OH, and for those of you questioning the skill involved. Please, pick up Ice Climbers and go to a tournament. If you place in Top 4 surrounding a tourney of more than 40 people, I might consider what it is you're saying. Ice Climbers are not easy to play. The infinite is not easy to execute without consistent practice. And most of all, the grab needed for the infinite isn't easy to land. Why do you think players other than Ambrose/Lain are not winning or really placing well, if it is so easy?

Excellent post, and saved me a lot of time from typing up almost the exact same thing! Couldn't agree with you more. This is more of a don't fix what ain't broke kinda thing right here. If it proves detrimental, we will fix it later!

 

[Ulevo]

Excellent post, and saved me a lot of time from typing up almost the exact same thing! Couldn't agree with you more. This is more of a don't fix what ain't broke kinda thing right here. If it proves detrimental, we will fix it later!

Hell, at the very least we can always fix it later. There's nothing wrong with that idea.

I've made a few posts here and there complaining about things like how Meta Knight plays. I have reasons for why I made such statements, but there is nothing wrong with currently leaving it as is if we can fix the character at a later date once we actually know if there is a problem via results from tournaments and extensive gameplay.

Edit: Everytime I see you post now, I always think "short hop anus". It was that other posters fault.

 

[kupo15]

^^Need I point out that infinites do exist in other fighters (two of which is still very popular and very competitive?).

Well, Ivy had an infinite in SC4 which was quickly taken out

@Kupo, since you believe that the infinites should require more skill, how do you feel about the throw->footstool->iceblock reset->regrab infinite? And the Ice Climber's infinite really does take some skill. It's weight specific, size specific, and stage specific, meaning that the Ice Climbers must practice the infinite with all of these variables in order to preform it correctly (if a single one of these doesn't match up then they will mis-time the regrab.) It's not like you can just pick up Ice Climbers for the first time and perform the infinite. Heck, even melee Ice Climber's players have to practice the infinite for a while, despite the fact that they're already comfortable with Desyncing.

Doesn't take much practice for them, but now we're going into very subjective territory over "how much practice makes something skillful?"

I was actually referring to the single CG that doesn't put you into the tumble until 30ish I think instead of at 0%. The reward for killing the dual ICers and their CG isn't to have an easy 30% CG with one :\ I would like for the dthrow to send you into the tumble at 0%

 

[Ulevo]

Well, Ivy had an infinite in SC4 which was quickly taken out


I was actually referring to the single CG that doesn't put you into the tumble until 30ish I think instead of at 0%. The reward for killing the dual ICers and their CG isn't to have an easy 30% CG with one :\ I would like for the dthrow to send you into the tumble at 0%

That to me is reasonable, however I still feel it unnecessary. It isn't a bad idea.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

^^Need I point out that infinites do exist in other fighters (two of which is still very popular and very competitive?).

But do these infinites actually add something to the gameplay, or are they just there? Serious question btw.

 

[PanzerOceania]

it's not that they are game breaking, it's just that if we have the ability to change something that allows no reversal/counter/or escape if they preform it correctly, they why wouldn't we switch that?

This is supposed to make the game MORE competitive, you can't compete if you can't counter your opponent to escape.

 

[Greenpoe]

Ulevo's post won the argument, unless someone can refute that combos are essentially no different than death grabs. Both are started by one action, need a degree of skill, and revoke most of your control if you are being attacked (Combo'd=DI, tech; Grab=Go for instant break-out, mash buttons to escape).

 

[PanzerOceania]

you can DI out of of combos, but not out of a chaingrab.

 

[CloneHat]

OK, look. Imagine you were playing against someone who was, say, Captain Falcon. Falcon's jab doesn't have much range, but it is a fast move, and good players will tend to use it. Now imagine that the jab can hit through shields. Annoying, right? But imagine that on top of that, the shield ignoring attack forces you to stare at the screen for 30 seconds, unable to do anything, than killed you instantly.

You'd want to ban him, correct? Tell that to the Ice Climbers.

 

[kupo15]

you can DI out of of combos, but not out of a chaingrab.

This beats your post greenpoe

 

[Greenpoe]

This beats your post greenpoe

...just like I said in my previous post, you can get out of grabs just like combos. Button mash or hope for the lucky instant-break out. Just like you can get out of combos. Granted, the dificulty changes based on the combo/grab (if they do many jabs, it is easier to escape, just like if their combo allows teching vs. a guaranteed combo).

 

[Blank Mauser]

This beats your post greenpoe

Not if the player does the combo right.

Combos are just glorified chaingrabs or Bad DI. Both of them overrated.

 

[kupo15]

...just like I said in my previous post, you can get out of grabs just like combos. Button mash or hope for the lucky instant-break out. Just like you can get out of combos. Granted, the dificulty changes based on the combo/grab (if they do many jabs, it is easier to escape, just like if their combo allows teching vs. a guaranteed combo).

You are assuming that ICers will pummel you, but pummeling has no purpose when its an infinite and you can't defend yourself at all. Once they grab you, they will immediately throw you which guarantees the combo and grab breaks are useless so in essence, a grab equals one stock. But I'm not worrying about the alt grabbing yet. Just popo's dthrow CG because of how stupidly programmed it is

Not if the player does the combo right.

Combos are just glorified chaingrabs or Bad DI. Both of them overrated.

Huh? Combos are nothing like ICers alt grabbing

 

[Blank Mauser]

Huh? Combos are nothing like ICers alt grabbing

They work and the player can't get out of them. Same effect, never really found what the big fuss over chaingrabs was.