The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[matt4300]

I haven't figured out the keys on how to space for paragraphs on this site yet. :/

Its the big key with the ENTER word on it.^_^ But seriously hell no fox is so good at offence why the hell do we want him to be good at both, and if what you said is true then you just said that there are 2 kinda of char defensive like bowser and samus (chars that need buff and are kinda bad) and offensive like shiek, meta (both of these chars are getting nerfed) obivously its better to be an offensive type. (just an observation, not my opinion)

So, no fox does not need a buff hes a monster. Haveing godly offence AND good defense would be oh-so broken.(ex: fox was melee top tier)

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

in the same vain that chain grabs, laser locks, and grab release combos are lame and stupid, infinite 0-death grabs are equally as stupid.

 

[The Cape]

Not saying their placement has anything to do with it, I also said it was relatively easy (going by Almas information and similar situations).

The thing is, the ICers now have an unDIable infinite. The fact that it even exists is the problem. It is the only unDIable death combo in this game and in vBrawl. You all say they didnt gain much, however have you begun to consider the ability to dash dance alone is a huge boon to the ICers as it allows them to dodge in and out of the opponents range to facilitate easier grab setups. A few D throws to get Nana in place, alternating grabs for 8 minutes. Sound like an issue?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Ok. I wanna make some valid points on the laser cap issue and the heavier characters buffs aswell. First off we gotta realise that there are different kinds of metagames in smash. I've noticed the heavy characters play more defensive and wait for an opening..but for some strange reason you guys are trying to buff them offensively. What i am saying is instead of changing there KB and modding there frames, just give bowser less shieldstun and push, this would make the faster character think twice before approaching and also give bowser the advantage of doing what he does best...attacking out of his shield. What i am trying to say overall is some characters are defensive(bowser,samus etc.) and some are offensive (sheik,meta etc.) But if you remembered correctly in melee..there were versatile characters..such as Fox and marth. This is where i move on to the laser debate. Ok why do you ppl wanna cap falcos lasers?! oh yea because he can camp. well ladies and gentlemen, That is falcos defensive game and it only puts him where he always has been since melee to vbrawl *in the top tier roster*, I know b+ is all about balance, but as someone stated NO game can ever be balanced. Anyway. I wanna say that falco and wolf have an upside to there laser game first off wolf can Di his lasers, plus he gets an added damage effect when your close to him. Falco already has stun with his laser aswell...what about Fox... This is where i scratch my head, Fox no longer is versatile, because his laser game has been nerfed drastically. Why?! well i'll say why, Fox no longer has the ability to DI with his lasers this cuts his laser game and thus makes him an offensive character instead of a versatile character like his melee and N64 counter part, besides that his range has been cut, and you should also know with momentum retreat lasers can take you off the edge of the stage and only lead to being gimped upon returning. i am saying that Top tier characters will existed. I just want you guys to know that some characters are based off of offense some defense and others are just that good. The one thing that over comes all of this is MINDGAMES.

All defense in an offensive game doesn't work. Defensive characters are always lower tier, offensive characters are always higher tier. The characters that are getting offensive buffs NEED an offense because all defense just doesn't cut it anymore.

If we give them less shieldstun, then we go back to Brawl. God forbid Bowser dittos with less shield stun. They'd go out on the timer every match because neither can attack without getting *****. Boring to play, boring to watch. Now we're playing vBrawl again. >_>

On the laser cap issue, why does everyone miss the point? Falco's lasers would ONLY be capped to open up Bridge of Eldin. It would NOT hurt him on ANY other legal stage. Period. If BoE isn't going to be a CP anyway, then it's a non issue. They shouldn't be capped.

Fox's lasers could be opened up, but why? We don't WANT characters that are leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else in just about everything. There probably still will be, but why would we go out of our way to MAKE a character like this when they develop by themselves?
Fox SHOULD be an offensive character, not an "I can do everything" character.

No game can be perfectly balanced, but does that mean we shouldn't try?



And now I'm done. >_>


I lied: JC Grabs? Seriously? You can't be bothered to learn a new way to dashgrab? Now we're just hanging onto preference rather than stuff that's actually worth the codespace.

 

[Greenpoe]

IMO, we have bigger problems than IC's flavor...like the scaling of hitstun. Is there a way to make the base of hitstun higher while making it scale slower (thus preserving the overall balance)? At higher %'s, some moves feel like they deal far too much hitstun (like Fox/Falco combo'ing out of their up-smashes ;_; .

 

[Blank Mauser]

Not saying their placement has anything to do with it, I also said it was relatively easy (going by Almas information and similar situations).

The thing is, the ICers now have an unDIable infinite. The fact that it even exists is the problem. It is the only unDIable death combo in this game and in vBrawl. You all say they didnt gain much, however have you begun to consider the ability to dash dance alone is a huge boon to the ICers as it allows them to dodge in and out of the opponents range to facilitate easier grab setups. A few D throws to get Nana in place, alternating grabs for 8 minutes. Sound like an issue?

Its called stalling and its banned.

Dash dancing is really not an effective way to setup grabs. People aren't going to throw moves out for you to dash dance in and out of to punish. Grabs have always been high risk for them just like anybody else.

in the same vain that chain grabs, laser locks, and grab release combos are lame and stupid, infinite 0-death grabs are equally as stupid.

Nerfing a character that doesn't need to be is lame and stupid.

 

[abcool]

All defense in an offensive game doesn't work. Defensive characters are always lower tier, offensive characters are always higher tier. The characters that are getting offensive buffs NEED an offense because all defense just doesn't cut it anymore.

If we give them less shieldstun, then we go back to Brawl. God forbid Bowser dittos with less shield stun. They'd go out on the timer every match because neither can attack without getting *****. Boring to play, boring to watch. Now we're playing vBrawl again. >_>

On the laser cap issue, why does everyone miss the point? Falco's lasers would ONLY be capped to open up Bridge of Eldin. It would NOT hurt him on ANY other legal stage. Period. If BoE isn't going to be a CP anyway, then it's a non issue. They shouldn't be capped.

Fox's lasers could be opened up, but why? We don't WANT characters that are leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else in just about everything. There probably still will be, but why would we go out of our way to MAKE a character like this when they develop by themselves?
Fox SHOULD be an offensive character, not an "I can do everything" character.

No game can be perfectly balanced, but does that mean we shouldn't try?



And now I'm done. >_>


I lied: JC Grabs? Seriously? You can't be bothered to learn a new way to dashgrab? Now we're just hanging onto preference rather than stuff that's actually worth the codespace.

I am not saying Bowser dittos or nerf the offense i am saying give him less shieldstun to survive getting ***** by faster characters. Also the fox issue how would being able to Di with his useless laser be broken?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Nerfing a character that doesn't need to be is lame and stupid.

thanx for the red herring but that has nothing to do with my point.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I still hold that capping Falco's laser wouldn't even effect BoE's viablity. The debate around BoE is larger than Falco's laser. You can camp just as effectively with a capped laser. Everyone stfu about Falco's laser and start playing on BoE right now with any and every character to determine whether or not it's viable for B+.


On the IC chain grab front, here is a solution: Give dthrow increased knockback! It will not be chainable into itself, but only when Nana is present. I think Almas was on the right track with the idea of taking away Popo's solo CG.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I am not saying Bowser dittos or nerf the offense i am saying give him less shieldstun to survive getting ***** by faster characters. Also the fox issue how would being able to Di with his useless laser be broken?

I know. You want less shieldstun. I just said why I thought that was an extremely bad idea. More friction might work if the character specific friction mod is going to be implemented, but not less shieldstun.

Honestly, I'm hard pressed to find any projectile useless.
I wasn't really arguing against the laser DI, so much as your assertion that Fox should be Melee Fox tier again for no reason other then that you want him to be better.

 

[The Cape]

On the IC chain grab front, here is a solution: Give dthrow increased knockback! It will not be chainable into itself, but only when Nana is present. I think Almas was on the right track with the idea of taking away Popo's solo CG.

The fact that you and Almas are actually making a suggestion for this is excellent. Someone is going to come along and get good at the ICers and throw to throw everyone to death all over the place like Wobbles did when he first came into the scene with Wobbling.

As for the arguements that will come after this post stating that "excessive stalling" is banned. I would like you to define it for me to a perfect effect, then find a way to enforce it.

Remove throw to throw CG in some way and you dont need to have a special judge to watch your match everytime you play ICers. Thats the main point here. It exists and WILL become a problem, lets address it now while we can.

 

[Shell]

I think that ideally we would remove the single IC chain grabs and then buff them in other unique ways.

However, this seems like it would take a lot of lines to remove this and then buff them (in any way other than speed modifiers).

I'd worry about any last buffs / important systemic codes first (MC fix, teching fix, KB mod, MK?), and then if we have lines / anyone finishes Gecko 2.0 we come back and give these guys an overhaul.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

the problem with buffing ice climbers in exchange for the loss of their 0-death chain grab is that no one really plays them for any other reason but to 0-death people lol so we don't really know what about them would be good for them

 

[abcool]

I know. You want less shieldstun. I just said why I thought that was an extremely bad idea. More friction might work if the character specific friction mod is going to be implemented, but not less shieldstun.

Honestly, I'm hard pressed to find any projectile useless.
I wasn't really arguing against the laser DI, so much as your assertion that Fox should be Melee Fox tier again for no reason other then that you want him to be better.

I'll break it down for you then. Bowser and some slow characters who needs crap loads of line space, can easily be improved if there sheildstun is made character specific to match the faster characters offense. also the reason we NEED the Di with fox's lasers is because half of the the projectile cast can already do it. plus with momentum making him fly so far with retreat lasers it's a pain to not be able to control it. Now this won't make fox Top tier because it still depends on the player, it now comes down to who have the best mindgames to implement it. ex. laser precision.

 

[Deleted member]

The fact that you and Almas are actually making a suggestion for this is excellent. Someone is going to come along and get good at the ICers and throw to throw everyone to death all over the place like Wobbles did when he first came into the scene with Wobbling.

As for the arguments that will come after this post stating that "excessive stalling" is banned. I would like you to define it for me to a perfect effect, then find a way to enforce it.

Remove throw to throw CG in some way and you dont need to have a special judge to watch your match everytime you play ICers. Thats the main point here. It exists and WILL become a problem, lets address it now while we can.

Define it in a perfect way? what about the using the same rule as in vBrawl: You can't CG someone above 200%, or something along those lines. It worked pretty good for them.

the problem with buffing ice climbers in exchange for the loss of their 0-death chain grab is that no one really plays them for any other reason but to 0-death people lol so we don't really know what about them would be good for them

I didn't know I could facepalm, lol, and rage at the same time.
edit: nevermind

 

[Ulevo]

Not saying their placement has anything to do with it,

It does have something to do with it. It's a reflection of the potential they hold as a character. If the CGs were as much of an issue as you're exaggerating them to be, they would obviously be higher on the tier list.

I also said it was relatively easy (going by Almas information and similar situations).

That is subjective and completely arbitrary. Going by this easy theory, would they not actually be a better character and thus higher on the tier list, winning tournaments, if it was so easy?

The thing is, the ICers now have an unDIable infinite.

Um... You could never DI out of their infinites.

The fact that it even exists is the problem. It is the only unDIable death combo in this game and in vBrawl.

And why is this a problem? vBrawl is not suffering due to this fact, and you have nothing to support the idea that it will in Brawl Plus. Your point is moot.

You all say they didnt gain much, however have you begun to consider the ability to dash dance alone is a huge boon to the ICers as it allows them to dodge in and out of the opponents range to facilitate easier grab setups.

Dash Dancing does not remedy the problems the Ice Climbers suffer, nor does it significantly improve their ability to grab. This is especially true now that their shields are no where near as useful, characters are faster and thus harder to grab, and every aerial attack in the game is safer to use.

A few D throws to get Nana in place, alternating grabs for 8 minutes. Sound like an issue?

No, it actually doesn't.

CGs have never, ever been a problem in any tournament with Ice Climbers. I go to tournaments regularly with Ambrose present. And stalling? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and let you assume that your opponent is actually good enough to stall for more than a minute with CGs, (let alone 8 **** minutes), but stalling is banned. Once the character reaches a specific percent, it should become obvious when stalling is present. I have never seen, heard, or witnessed a player using the CGs of Ice Climbers as a means to stall, and I would be willing to bet you never have either, or have proof to show of such an event. You have no grounds to go by but your assumptions of what if.

The fact that you and Almas are actually making a suggestion for this is excellent. Someone is going to come along and get good at the ICers and throw to throw everyone to death all over the place like Wobbles did when he first came into the scene with Wobbling.

Hm. Funny. I don't remember Wobbles winning regional or National tournaments on a regular basis.

First of all, different game, different strategies, different characters, different technique, different issue. Not that it matters to me, I can apply the same example to our argument, but Ice Climbers had different options in Melee. It still wasn't a problem, and you would know this if you paid attention to competitive Melee years back. I never did extensively, but I am informed enough to know this was not an problem.

Yeesh. By god should someone get good with a character. What ever will we do.

As for the arguements that will come after this post stating that "excessive stalling" is banned. I would like you to define it for me to a perfect effect, then find a way to enforce it.

Stalling is already defined. I have no reason to provide you with a definition.

To enforce it on the Ice Climbers is not necessary, because it will never be used for that purpose. But for the sake of the argument, I can easily go in to a stage with the widest blastzones possible, pick the heaviest character possible, and find out the percent at which they die from an USmash/DSmash/FSmash at the end of CG, and put that as a bench mark. Done.

Remove throw to throw CG in some way and you dont need to have a special judge to watch your match everytime you play ICers. Thats the main point here. It exists and WILL become a problem, lets address it now while we can.

Um. What?

Have you ever been to a tournament before? Particularly with a good Ice Climber main? I have. This doesn't happen, it never has, and you have nothing to prove otherwise.


Please provide me actual reasons to justify this.

 

[Blank Mauser]

the problem with buffing ice climbers in exchange for the loss of their 0-death chain grab is that no one really plays them for any other reason but to 0-death people lol so we don't really know what about them would be good for them

Actually, after wobbling was banned and people learned to smash DI out of IC Dair CGs, a lot of IC's emphasized on desync combos and such. There is some precedence, its just we don't have much means to replicate it seeing as how Melee had more options for it. Other kinds of things were small like chaining Uairs.

Sketch, can I ask who that is in your avatar? I feel like I should know it...

 

[GameSystem]

Wobbling was never banned but w/e.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks Ulevo, you expressed yourself far better than I ever could.
Edit:

Wobbling was never banned but w/e.

It was banned in a few Tournaments IIRC.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Even though recent tournies don't do it, it was banned at a time. So IC's did have to learn to do something else besides infinites.

 

[Phyvo]

That might of been me. I do Dthrow > Usmash x2-3 and Dthrow > Utilt x2 > Usmashx1-2 alot.

I know that Cape doesn't do it, but I do. But they barely work without Bad DI and timing, at least the first one. The second one doesnt always finish either. Depends on Up/Down Grav of a character.

Yeah, I could have easily gotten things mixed up. Cape uploads the most Mario videos so...

But I didn't manage to find the one in particular that I was thinking of. I never thought that it wouldn't depend on the up/down grav, but seeing upsmash-upsmash at all was kind of jarring and disappointing for me when I saw it. I mean, u-tilt spam is one thing, but u-smash to u-smash combos? How'd *that* get in there?

Just in case, that was a rhetorical question. =X

I'm pretty noob though. I'd like to be able to contribute more but as it is I'm pretty much a spectator, so I'm not sure why I even bring these things up.

 

[BadGuy]

Imo, hit stun needs to be reduced a little bit more.

 

[shanus]

For the people interested, live stream is coming up shortly:
http://www.justin.tv/shanus19

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

this is my stance on the ice climbers situation.

what match would be more fun to watch: captain falcon vs fox with knees and shines and epicness or ice climbers vs bowser a russian roulette of baiting for a 0 death chain grab for 6 minutes

 

[SketchHurricane]

Sketch, can I ask who that is in your avatar? I feel like I should know it...

Naruto in fox mode. Read the manga


Well, here's hoping a usable knockback code is possible :embarrass

 

[Blank Mauser]

this is my stance on the ice climbers situation.

what match would be more fun to watch: captain falcon vs fox with knees and shines and epicness or ice climbers vs bowser a russian roulette of baiting for a 0 death chain grab for 6 minutes

There are obviously going to be different matchups and playstyles then just Captain Falcon vs. Fox dude. I personally think Jiggs dittos are horrible but we aren't going to make Jiggs a fast faller that flies around resting people at 0%. Projectile chars like Link and Samus probably aren't going to be the most fun matches to watch either.

The metagame will evolve and people are going to do whatever it is that makes their character viable. If their opponent is smart and knows the matchup they're going to have to rely on more careful tactics sometimes that aren't always the flashiest, its going to happen.

And lol SketchHurricane, I knew I saw it before. I got the spoilers of the latest issue pm'ed to me by like 5 friends how could I forget? @_@

 

[storm92]

Imo, hit stun needs to be reduced a little bit more.

The hitstun is perfect right now.
For my own set I even raised it back up to .485, it's definitely not too high

 

[cooler1339]

Why would we ever keep a 0 to death that can't be escaped?

 

[goodoldganon]

Why would we ever keep a 0 to death that can't be escaped?

Because without them the ICs are garbage and with them they are just ok. It's a waste of lines to fix the IC chaingrabs. Not only is it part of their character (no matter how much one may hate it) it would also require us to buff them in other ways.

Also, maybe with a fixed tech window things will be better, but as it is now hitstun is a tad too high. Then again, I only really curse hitstun during u-tilt spams, so maybe if we can fix those culprits (Lucario, Sheik, etc.) things will be better. Either way, I suggest a very small decrease in hitstun. From like 8.5 to 8.4%

 

[GHNeko]

Yeah, I could have easily gotten things mixed up. Cape uploads the most Mario videos so...

But I didn't manage to find the one in particular that I was thinking of. I never thought that it wouldn't depend on the up/down grav, but seeing upsmash-upsmash at all was kind of jarring and disappointing for me when I saw it. I mean, u-tilt spam is one thing, but u-smash to u-smash combos? How'd *that* get in there?

Just in case, that was a rhetorical question. =X

I'm pretty noob though. I'd like to be able to contribute more but as it is I'm pretty much a spectator, so I'm not sure why I even bring these things up.

Lol. Marth SHFFL Fair to SHFFL Fair. Besides, the Usmashes arent all standing usmashes. A few have to be hyphened. It basically falls along the lines of, "If it works, why fix it?"

I generally do go for other combos, but the Usmash ones are generally easiest next to utilt and what not.

 

[lain]

Exactly how is this stupid? And please elaborate on how this is easy to set up?

Last time I looked, Ice Climbers weren't winning vBrawl tourneys. In fact, most except for top players like Lain and Ambrose don't even place well. And this is in the version of Brawl with no L Cancel, and ridiculously low shield stun, along with slower characters.

So exactly how is this stupid? Please explain why. Rather stupid isn't a reason for a nerf or modification.

FYI I've been winning and placing top 2 in almost every tournament I've gone to in the past 3 months.

Also, I got 9th/227 at COT4.

So yeah.

 

[BadGuy]

"Either way, I suggest a very small decrease in hitstun. From like 8.5 to 8.4%"
This, also, would love to see some adjustments to olimar's ridiculous grab. It has huge reach, back and forth, and is spamable. If you could add some lag to his grab after it's performed to prevent grab spamming that would be a great nerf for olimar. He's strong enough even without it.

 

[Green'n'Clean]

Wall Of Text From Seemingly Unimportant Nobody

I think the pro-inescapablezerotodeath people need to understand one incredibly important thing about games. Not actually getting to play them isn't very fun.
Basically, playing the ICs are always fun as it is a very unique match-up, as it revolves around keeping Nana and Popo separated. However, if you actually get grabbed, you suddenly have no saying in what's going to happen in the game for quite some time. This while the other player completely and utterly ***** you.
Not actually getting to affect the course of the game is complete ****ing bull****. If you think that's what a game should be about, you have no business playing games at all.

I think everyone can agree that we should avoid this kind of non-gameplay if we can, but in this particular case there are some pronounced downsides to removing ICs infinites.
As we are all aware of, they aren't really the best characters in the game, and thus shouldn't receive any nerfs. Removing the infinites would undoubtedly make the ICs worse, but this argument can be worked around by buffing them in other aspects of their game.
If you think this would make the ICs play less unique, there is still desynching, which many argues would lead to IC players playing even more uniquely than before (presently they don't actually have to incorporate it into their playstyles).

This scenario can only play out if we find a good way to remove all infinites and keep all CGs which you can escape from by DI/teching. How we go around buffing the ICs aren't all that important.

A good thing to remember is that both sides are actually making valid claims, so lets sum 'em up along with some opinions (mine).

Pro-Infinte

"Don't fix what ain't broken!"

I must argue against this point, since a game without infinites would always be a better one. Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it's not undesirable.
Thus the argument is invalid.


The ICs doesn't need any nerfs!

This statement is unanimously agreed upon, but if the sum of the buffs and nerfs the ICs receives in the final version of brawl+ is in favor of the ICs, they aren't actually being nerfed.
Thus the argument is invalid.


"Infinites are hard, ICs mess up really often!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu-9fm5GM-E
If someone can master that, someone is going to master CGing. I think we've debated technical skill enough considering the l-cancel debate.



"Pro-Fun"

"Infinites are boring."

I explained my stance on this in the wall of text above. Seriously, they are.




I'd like to end this in favor of the "Pro-Fun" people, simply because I think they're right. Makes sense, amirite?
However, it all comes down to if we can construct a code that removes what we want removed without affecting any other aspects of the ICs gameplay. If we can't remove it with hacks, I'd suggest we leave it untouched. It will still be boring and un-fun to face IC mains, but I can guarantee they won't dominate tournaments.



TL;DR


Infinites are gay.

Spoiler

copypasta is awesome

 

[Ulevo]

FYI I've been winning and placing top 2 in almost every tournament I've gone to in the past 3 months.

Also, I got 9th/227 at COT4.

So yeah.

Lain, I meant that Ice Climber mains in general do not win tournaments or place well, out side of you and Ambrose. I've already stated that you and Ambrose place well.

Obviously if Ice Climbers were as problematic as players have been complaining about, there'd be a lot more of players like you. Correct?

 

[Ulevo]

I think the pro-inescapablezerotodeath people need to understand one incredibly important thing about games. Not actually getting to play them isn't very fun.
Basically, playing the ICs are always fun as it is a very unique match-up, as it revolves around keeping Nana and Popo separated. However, if you actually get grabbed, you suddenly have no saying in what's going to happen in the game for quite some time. This while the other player completely and utterly ***** you.
Not actually getting to affect the course of the game is complete ****ing bull****. If you think that's what a game should be about, you have no business playing games at all.

I think everyone can agree that we should avoid this kind of non-gameplay if we can, but in this particular case there are some pronounced downsides to removing ICs infinites.
As we are all aware of, they aren't really the best characters in the game, and thus shouldn't receive any nerfs. Removing the infinites would undoubtedly make the ICs worse, but this argument can be worked around by buffing them in other aspects of their game.
If you think this would make the ICs play less unique, there is still desynching, which many argues would lead to IC players playing even more uniquely than before (presently they don't actually have to incorporate it into their playstyles).

This scenario can only play out if we find a good way to remove all infinites and keep all CGs which you can escape from by DI/teching. How we go around buffing the ICs aren't all that important.

A good thing to remember is that both sides are actually making valid claims, so lets sum 'em up along with some opinions (mine).

Pro-Infinte

"Don't fix what ain't broken!"

I must argue against this point, since a game without infinites would always be a better one. Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it's not undesirable.
Thus the argument is invalid.


The ICs doesn't need any nerfs!

This statement is unanimously agreed upon, but if the sum of the buffs and nerfs the ICs receives in the final version of brawl+ is in favor of the ICs, they aren't actually being nerfed.
Thus the argument is invalid.


"Infinites are hard, ICs mess up really often!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu-9fm5GM-E
If someone can master that, someone is going to master CGing. I think we've debated technical skill enough considering the l-cancel debate.



"Pro-Fun"

"Infinites are boring."

I explained my stance on this in the wall of text above. Seriously, they are.




I'd like to end this in favor of the "Pro-Fun" people, simply because I think they're right. Makes sense, amirite?
However, it all comes down to if we can construct a code that removes what we want removed without affecting any other aspects of the ICs gameplay. If we can't remove it with hacks, I'd suggest we leave it untouched. It will still be boring and un-fun to face IC mains, but I can guarantee they won't dominate tournaments.



TL;DR


Infinites are gay.

Spoiler

copypasta is awesome

Why are we talking about why Infinites are boring? What the hell? I wasn't aware boring and fun was what helped shape and define a character for competitive play.

The Ice Climbers are fine. We'll change them if they have a massive disadvantage, or if they're broken (which they're not at all). Otherwise, except for balancing them as a character in comparison to the cast via small tweaks, we shouldn't make major changes to them. They're fine right now, and I personally hate fighting them.

 

[trojanpooh]

Yeah, I agree, that isn't a very good point. I'm not sure I think infinites are good, but if I was trying to argue against them, that wouldn't be my method. You know why? Its not fun to be edge hogged, it not fun to be comboed, its not fun to loose, its not fun to completely pwn your opponent with little effort.

 

[Shell]

Hey lain, have you tried Brawl+ yet?

If we do have the lines to overhaul the IC (and it's the consensus), it'd be super helpful to have an awesome IC player making the suggestions.

 

[trojanpooh]

I'm sure you guys are aware of it, but I just figured to tell anyone you doesn't go to the code agenda, spunit figured out scar jumping, and its a one liner.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

Falco's laser needs nerfing also, i know yu can tech to avoid it but f-throw> laser lock works on alot of the cast(didnt test all), i dont think laser locking should even be possible

in think adding a little lag to the end of the laser could change this, also it coould take away the SHDL which isnt that bad considering he'll still have SHLH

and yes i do have GOOD ppl to play(i dont play cpu's), we di when we should, tech spikes, tech consistently, combo consistently, etc,etc.

 

[A Diamond For Disease]

^^^^
I thought they were working on a code to remove locks. Oh and there was some talk of making samus' missles faster is that gonna happen?