The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Grunt]

What happened to the Pichu> Kirby discussion?

 

[Pink Reaper]

I think you mean Kirby > Pichu discussion

 

[Tom]

What happened to the Pichu> Kirby discussion?

the topic had a giant influx of Melee v. Brawl and a bit of cat dont blame me...

<dances> WOOOO

hmm tom what should i name my cat when i get her/him? was thinking purin >D

i can definitely love a Purin cat if she (or he) is a light colored cat!! but a brown purin sounds off, right? maybe then go for something different

 

[Vyse]

I know this is completely off topic, but clearly at the bottom of the screen here it reads that I'm looking at page 322, but everytime I click the 323 link, it brings up this page again.




Not that I'm complaining, because I love MJ's music.

Also, Kirby > Pichu. That's just from personal experience though.
I was put out of a melee tourney by a Kirby player once =_=
This guy was like 'Time to play omnigamer style' and proceeded to out-gay beat my Peach and Marth.

 

[replicate]

Lol @ listing top professionals and thinking you're proving a point.

******.

The reason why people think marth is god is because m2k is just to ****ing good. /end.

it seems like this is the case with mango and jigglypuff



and that extra page is ****ing annoying

 

[Pink Reaper]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I have TWO extra pages now. THIS IS PISSING ME OFF

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I am not implying that I want Melee to go away. I am merely posting a few statistical facts.

 

[Vyse]

I think we just divided by 0. Staying in this thread is the only thing keeping us alive.
I wonder if it's just this thread, or it's smashboards having a meltdown...again.

EDIT: And yeah, I see Buzz's objective viewpoint. People have different opinions, but I guess time will tell.

Has there ever been a situation where tier lists change with the changes in the core community?

 

[replicate]

hahaha srsly, two extra pages is balls

 

[Grunt]

lol everyone knows Pichu is the worst.

 

[Aesir]

The point is that since no one is playing Melee anymore, the high level gameplay is not being developed by even 1/10th of the players that used to push it constantly, and therefore nothing will really change enough to effect tiers past what was being done this winter.

People do play it now, infact many prefer it over brawl. Saying no one is playing melee anymore is dishonest and it would be pretty cool if people would stop saying it.

Especially when you look at the east and the south which are more pro-melee then pro-brawl. When a few months ago it was the exact opposite. People play the game they like, not because. "lets see how far we can push the game."

Marth is best, then Fox, then Shiek and Falco are tied for 3rd.

None of that will change from here until eternity because no one is playing Melee at a high enough level to learn something new.

Yeah because mango totally didn't win pound3

You sound completely clueless to the melee scene now, I suggest you stop acting like you know about it lol.

 

[RDK]

Cue ridiculous Smashboards glitches. Page 323 is page 324. Someone divided by zero.

And come on--people really think Kirby is worse than Pichu?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Page 121.

40 posts per page FTW

 

[Pink Reaper]

Cue ridiculous Smashboards glitches. Page 323 is page 324. Someone divided by zero.

And come on--people really think Kirby is worse than Pichu?

M2K says Bowser, Kirby AND Ness are all worse than Pichu.

 

[RDK]

M2K says Bowser, Kirby AND Ness are all worse than Pichu.

That's because I believe M2K knocked Sadaharu Inui out of a tournament one time by just using Pichu's n-air. The man is a Pichu genius.

Page 121.

40 posts per page FTW

Wall-of-texts FTL.

 

[Mew2King]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5270383#post5270383

^

Top

Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco



High

C.Falcon/Jiggs/Peach (I cannot decide an order, so I'll just rank them the same, even though it's probably Falcon Jiggs Peach)
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario (he is better than Mario for winning purposes, and he is very underused and underrated)



Mid

DK
Ganon
Mario
Samus (she's very limited, I know high level Samus and she's definitely very limited and not very good outside of a few tricks at high level and her broken wavedash back)
Luigi
Pikachu
Link



Low

Y. Link
Zelda
Roy
G&W
Yoshi



Bottom

Mewtwo (taj convinced me, and after thinking it over I agree)
Pichu (up throw is the main reason esp vs fast fallers, and Nair -> Nair combos)
Bowser
Ness
Kirby




1) Marth vs Fox is EVEN, it is the most even matchup in the game, it is just like MK vs Snake in Brawl (except MK is better in Brawl slightly while Fox is better in Melee slightly), I have thought this when I mained Fox (when I beat Ken I even thought Fox had the advantage and Ken agreed), and I think this now that I main Marth. It is stage dependent, it's about 50/50, although Fox at really high level has a small advantage because of lasers if he doesn't make mistakes. Trust me, I know the matchup both ways really well, so does Cactuar and PC and Ken and Neo and a lot of people that have a very similar opinion of me, and the matchup is the most even you can possibly get besides a ditto.

2) Sheik counters Marth. Marth does better vs spacies slightly because of the chain grab, but Sheik beats more characters easier than Marth does at high level (she beats herself pretty good too, even w/out CG). Sheik also doesn't get CGed by nearly as many characters as Fox/Falco do, but she has more reliably killing power than Marth. Sheik losing to Ice Climbers is a myth. Regardless of any arguments you present, and I don't really care cuz this thread is just to show you guys what I think since a lot of you have asked me before, I won't change my opinion. I know the game really well, and I thought a lot about the characters placement. If I change my mind of any of this it will probably be on my own doing.

3) Falco has a slight advantage against Fox 1 on 1. Fox only has the advantage on FD, or if Falco plays an edge game and gets gimped a lot.

4) Fox and Falco supposedly have a small advantage vs Sheik, but I've always sucked at fighting Sheik w/ Fox. However, since the vast majority of other pros I talk to think Fox has the advantage I'll just accept that.

5) I think Sheik is the best character in Melee if played right (I have thought this for OVER 2 YEARS even when I used her A LOT back at OC2), and I do play her a lot, and I'm very good with her which you would know if you have played me in person instead of basing off vids like a scrub, so don't say I put her top because I don't use her, because I use her very much, mostly for random mid/high tier matchups, and for Sheik dittos. I don't want to hear that, oh if Marth spaces a Fair right, he won't get hit. It doesn't work like that, you can't just say that, Sheik can just needle camp and her hitboxes go through Fox, and Marth just gets projectile camped and therefore he can't just Fair camp if the Sheik doesn't let him, and that's everyone's argument for Marth being the best, besides me Azen and Ken's success w/ him. I am probably best with Marth (actually it's about the same I'm just known for Marth) but that doesn't mean the character is better. There is people that my Marth has lost to then my Sheik 4 stocked the person the very next match w/ Sheik, and there's times my Fox has lost only for me to 3 stock the person w/ Sheik. Both of these happened 1-2 months ago.

6) Doc is better than Mario, it is obvious. Doc DK Ganon Mario Samus are all close, but Doc just has more practical tools for winning, Mario's only true asset over Doc is less landing lag from all his aerials, but Doc has more power in down smash, and better USEFUL attributes like gimping.

7) Kirby and Ness are definitely worse than Pichu Mewtwo and Bowser. They are just plain horrible, I don't care what ATs there are for them, even at the highest levels of play these characters are just super limited and bad.

8) Sheik vs Marth is a counter, a counter means the best character for the matchup against someone else. The best character to fight Marth is Sheik, it's 60/40 in Sheik's favor at least, or 65/35

Sheik Marth 65/35 or 60/40
Falco vs Fox 60/40
Marth vs Falco 60/40 or 55/45
Fox Sheik 55/45 or 50/50
Falco Sheik 55/45 or 50/50
Marth Fox 50/50

these are all my opinions, but very, very, VERY educated ones

9) I main Marth (not really, it's more like I main the top 3, but I guess if it had to be one it would be Marth) because he's the easiest to be consistent with.

10) In teams it's
1) Fox
2) Jiggs
3) Peach
4) Sheik (or Marth, but Marth's only really good at support/gimping, while Sheik's downfall is her down throw total time, but everything else she's **** at)

 

[JesiahTEG]

1. we are.

ok good

 

[LOL_Master]

finally jason

 

[Fletch]

M2K just ***** this thread... I'm not even going to try to argue with that.

EDIT: LOL Master you're at 1337 posts, and I'm stuck at 999...

 

[daisey]

Whats brawl?

lol, yeah what is that

M2K just ***** this thread... I'm not even going to try to argue with that.

but is so true.

 

[Vyse]

It's saying there are two extra pages again (Trips Balls)

I would move Link and Pika to low tier purely for the sake of Low Tier tourneys >.<

And it's awesome seeing this kind of analysis from you M2K, along with the reasoning you've put in. I kinda felt the same way you do about Sheik as well. Late last year I picked up Sheik and have been doing better with her than I ever did with Falco.

 

[metaXzero]

Why did the game with the best gameplay have to be the one with the worst Kirby (and gayest Sheik) WAAAAAAH! T_T

Also the page #s are annoy me so...

 

[Fletch]

I used to have the page number problem, but it went away. Are you guys at 40 posts/page or normal?

EDIT: What a lame 1000th post, totally forgot.

 

[cba]

i agree w/ M2K. sheik is the best. but can get owned by fox at times.
M2K wrote all of that which means: thats the tier list. end of discussion.

 

[Keitaro]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5270383#post5270383

^

Top

Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco



High

C.Falcon/Jiggs/Peach (I cannot decide an order, so I'll just rank them the same, even though it's probably Falcon Jiggs Peach)
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario (he is better than Mario for winning purposes, and he is very underused and underrated)



Mid

DK/Ganon
Mario
Samus (she's very limited, I know high level Samus and she's definitely very limited and not very good outside of a few tricks at high level and her broken wavedash back)
Luigi
Pikachu
Link



Low

Y. Link
Zelda
Roy
G&W
Yoshi



Bottom

Mewtwo (taj convinced me, and after thinking it over I agree)
Pichu (up throw is the main reason esp vs fast fallers, and Nair -> Nair combos)
Bowser
Ness
Kirby




1) Marth vs Fox is EVEN, it is the most even matchup in the game, it is just like MK vs Snake in Brawl (except MK is better in Brawl slightly while Fox is better in Melee slightly), I have thought this when I mained Fox (when I beat Ken I even thought Fox had the advantage and Ken agreed), and I think this now that I main Marth. It is stage dependent, it's about 50/50, although Fox at really high level has a small advantage because of lasers if he doesn't make mistakes. Trust me, I know the matchup both ways really well, so does Cactuar and PC and Ken and Neo and a lot of people that have a very similar opinion of me, and the matchup is the most even you can possibly get besides a ditto.

2) Sheik counters Marth. Marth does better vs spacies slightly because of the chain grab, but Sheik beats more characters easier than Marth does at high level (she beats herself pretty good too, even w/out CG). Sheik also doesn't get CGed by nearly as many characters as Fox/Falco do, but she has more reliably killing power than Marth. Sheik losing to Ice Climbers is a myth. Regardless of any arguments you present, and I don't really care cuz this thread is just to show you guys what I think since a lot of you have asked me before, I won't change my opinion. I know the game really well, and I thought a lot about the characters placement. If I change my mind of any of this it will probably be on my own doing.

3) Falco has a slight advantage against Fox 1 on 1. Fox only has the advantage on FD, or if Falco plays an edge game and gets gimped a lot.

4) Fox and Falco supposedly have a small advantage vs Sheik, but I've always sucked at fighting Sheik w/ Fox. However, since the vast majority of other pros I talk to think Fox has the advantage I'll just accept that.

5) I think Sheik is the best character in Melee if played right (I have thought this for OVER 2 YEARS even when I used her A LOT back at OC2), and I do play her a lot, and I'm very good with her which you would know if you have played me in person instead of basing off vids like a scrub, so don't say I put her top because I don't use her, because I use her very much, mostly for random mid/high tier matchups, and for Sheik dittos. I don't want to hear that, oh if Marth spaces a Fair right, he won't get hit. It doesn't work like that, you can't just say that, Sheik can just needle camp and her hitboxes go through Fox, and Marth just gets projectile camped and therefore he can't just Fair camp if the Sheik doesn't let him, and that's everyone's argument for Marth being the best, besides me Azen and Ken's success w/ him. I am probably best with Marth (actually it's about the same I'm just known for Marth) but that doesn't mean the character is better. There is people that my Marth has lost to then my Sheik 4 stocked the person the very next match w/ Sheik, and there's times my Fox has lost only for me to 3 stock the person w/ Sheik. Both of these happened 1-2 months ago.

6) Doc is better than Mario, it is obvious. Doc DK Ganon Mario Samus are all close, but Doc just has more practical tools for winning, Mario's only true asset over Doc is less landing lag from all his aerials, but Doc has more power in down smash, and better USEFUL attributes like gimping.

7) Kirby and Ness are definitely worse than Pichu Mewtwo and Bowser. They are just plain horrible, I don't care what ATs there are for them, even at the highest levels of play these characters are just super limited and bad.

8) Sheik vs Marth is a counter, a counter means the best character for the matchup against someone else. The best character to fight Marth is Sheik, it's 60/40 in Sheik's favor at least, or 65/35

Sheik Marth 65/35 or 60/40
Falco vs Fox 60/40
Marth vs Falco 60/40 or 55/45
Fox Sheik 55/45 or 50/50
Falco Sheik 55/45 or 50/50
Marth Fox 50/50

these are all my opinions, but very, very, VERY educated ones

9) I main Marth (not really, it's more like I main the top 3, but I guess if it had to be one it would be Marth) because he's the easiest to be consistent with.

10) In teams it's
1) Fox
2) Jiggs
3) Peach
4) Sheik (or Marth, but Marth's only really good at support/gimping, while Sheik's downfall is her down throw total time, but everything else she's **** at)

QFT

His explanations are on point here.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Since both of Mew2King's other threads were closed (what the hell?) I'll post my question here (mainly directed at Mew2King):

How much do you think Sheik goes down in PAL compared to this list? She can't CG anyone, in fact she can't even get a reliable combo out of dthrow if they DI it right. Usmash after dthrow against spacies no longer covers 3/4 teching options, and jab resets are impossible as well.

Since her uair was nerfed as well, it's much harder to kill off the top and you lose a good killing option that way. You can uair->fair spacies at percents where the fair will kill (if they mess up their DI, I think) but I think that's possible in NTSC as well.

Fox doesn't lose much against Sheik, his usmash is slightly weaker and firefox slightly shorter, but it hardly affects him, so I think Fox does better in PAL against sheik.

Marth can't Ken combo her effectively, so he has trouble edgeguarding her, however Ken Combos are situational anyway, and Sheik has much more trouble setting up combos and killing off the top. I'd say it's closer to being even than in NTSC.

Falco is pretty much the same as Fox here for comparison purposes here, the fact that his dair doesn't spike at the end of the move makes next to no difference if you use the dair intelligently. So here too Falco does better vs. Sheik in PAL.

So, anyone bother correcting me (without shouting please) and/or adding their own opinions?

 

[Samochan]

Since both of Mew2King's other threads were closed (what the hell?) I'll post my question here (mainly directed at Mew2King):

How much do you think Sheik goes down in PAL compared to this list? She can't CG anyone, in fact she can't even get a reliable combo out of dthrow if they DI it right. Usmash after dthrow against spacies no longer covers 3/4 teching options, and jab resets are impossible as well.

Sheik doesn't lose much when it comes to spacey and marth matchup, simply cause sheik can still techchase them like no other and use needles and whatever to edgeguard them. Uair comboes good too. Fox loses more cause he can't kill earlier, gets killed earlier with shorter firefox and being a bit lighter. Against marth sheik can still dthrow to dash attack and stuff into fair (I think). Peach gains the most significant advantage cause the best kill move on ntsc was sheik's uair. Now that sheik can't kill peach with dthrow to uair anymore, sheik needs to use less reliable ways of edgeguarding and peach recovering high is not susceptible to needles or even sheik's aerials that much, making her live a lot longer than you'd see on ntsc. So the matchup against sheik becomes much more even and marth too, without the ken combo, becomes more bearable albeit still her hardest matchup when played right imo. Fox matchup is a bit easier too since he needs to laser about 20-30% more in order to kill and shortened firefox shortens his lifespan. Europeans think that sheik is still the best character on Pal version, amsah does contribute a lot to this way of thinking and I'm not the one to disagree.

 

[cba]

if you look at the previous tier lists youll see that sheik used to to them & she didnt top the lst tier lists because spaceys got powered up, but now everyone knows what to expect from them

 

[LOL_Master]

very rarely does jason do himself justice by pwning smashboards

 

[RDK]

I like how this is the only thread with the extra page glitch. GG SWF.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I think it has something to do with Deleted Posts. Like, if a mod deletes a post I don't think SWF recognizes it.

 

[choknater]

i think everyone should agree on m2k's list being the true list, cuz it seems about right

mario over samus is questionable, but not a big deal, other than that the whole thing is spot on

 

[Fletch]

I'd like to see Doc down a tier as well; yes he is better than Mario, but I really don't think it's that big of a difference.

EDIT: Referring to M2K's list.

 

[otg]

I'd like to see Doc down a tier as well; yes he is better than Mario, but I really don't think it's that big of a difference.

EDIT: Referring to M2K's list.

Well as m2k said, Doc, Ganon, DK, Samus and Mario are all very closer to one another, but Doc is the best of them all. Maybe he should be at the top of Mid Tier, but imo he really does shine ahead of them all to be in High tier.

 

[Mew2King]

ya i was thinking about mario vs samus, but the thing is, marios not limited much, while samus is. Mario's less popular in tourney, but he's definitely a better character. He doesn't really have limitations. Samus is just more popular, but I think as a character she's just too limited compared to mario at high level play. She also can't CG fox/falco/falcon, and down throw CG sheik for a long time, and if you block her moves and just fair (with marth or sheik) samus will usually get hit, or be in a bad situation to counterattack. Meanwhile, Mario can do things like, uair out of shield or WD jab grab or jab down smash, fireball camp is just as good as missile camp, marios only real weakness is being edge guarded, but a good player will **** edge guard samus too (I do that now, it's so easy, samus is only super good at low and middle level play compared to the others).

and this is coming from a Super Metroid LOVER!!! So I'm not biased, and if I was I would be biased toward putting samus high (I'm not biased at all though, I just want to make it as accurate as possible toward the real truth).

im also considering GW vs Roy, not sure if roys better or not, its basically even, just different

but i know it's way more accurate than any other tier list ever made, I have confidence in that

 

[RDK]

Awesome. Now there are two nonexistant pages.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Lol, finally.

I've been saying Shiek was the best since I started playing Melee back in 04.

Right out of the M2K's mouth.

 

[LOL_Master]

lulllllllls, agreed

 

[DJ Nintendo]

I make Mario popular in tournament lol. My Mario is too good!

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Still don't get how people think Sheik > Fox, Falco or Marth. Sheik doesn't win tournaments! lol

And yes DJ, your Mario is top tier. Not as top tier as your cereal at tournaments, though