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The 2006-2008 Tier list

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Mic_128

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That's right everyone, the SBR decided to get together and update the tier list. Here's the brand new list. Thank everyone in the SBR. :)

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

Just a note, we voted to cut back the number of "tiers" from 6 to 5.
(I'll let other SBR members post here to explain anything they would like...right now I'm exhausted from compiling all the votes)
It's been over a year since the old one. Now everyone, discuss. :)

~Fleurs

Edit: We voted and changed the names of the tiers. Other, simple changed like that might occur.
. .
 
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he closed the other one, and for reasons you should watch out for with posts like the one you just made. in this thread we discuss the tier list, not cusom titles, sigs, ect. view the other one if you dont understand.
i suppose i have to say something involving the tier list then.
wow, kirby is below bowser, i always thought he should be.
but luigi should be higher IMO.
 

MegamanX14

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- Mewtwo higher (between Ness + Bowser)
- G&W higher (below Pika in Low Tier)
- Yoshi lower (I don't see why he's so good. Above Kirby)
- Young Link higher (above DK)
 

BRoomer
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How about we try why they should be higher or lower as well, just for the sake of discusion.


Marth should be at the top of the list, the combination of his range and speed in my opinion make him the best in the game. With good distancing and mind game he is very hard to beat.

Kirby should be at the bottom of the list. He has little range, little knock back, he's light, he's slow. His recovery is easy to predict. As a character over all I think he's the weakest. Aside from that I'm happy with the list.
 

ChozenOne

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I still do not understand why Falco is in the #2 spot.. I'm leaning towards 4th or 5th. Peach is a much better option. She has adv on Falco, C Falcon, Samus.. is even with fox.. and technically shiek, and marth have advantage on her. however we all know that those fights are almost even. If Ken is the best player in the world, then how did his Marth *whom has advantage* lose to Mikael's Peach?? Everyone agree with the top 5... it cannot really be disputed, however i'm much for infavor of this:

Top Tier:
Fox
Peach

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
Sheik

... as you can see Fox is still currently in the #1 position I do not believe that anyone will dispute that, however I have moved peach into the 2nd place. Not only is she the best partner for teams, but also can float cancel (effectivly making her arials fasters than falco's and fox's), her DI and Float make her able to survive non UpSmashes, and Tips well into the 150's, and the ability to pull out Turnips enables her to camp, and spam allowing her to stall matches and **** recoverys... can anyone say StitchFace.... Did i also forget to mention her downsmash. At zero percent she can UpThrow DownSmash Fox, and Falco and they cannot escape taking 48 damage. That is rediculous... but wait, i'm on FD she i guess she'll zero-death me after doing 48 damage by chaingrabbing me.... >_> so yeah. Peach for #2 <(^_^)b

Time to Update this post...

Marth for third. He doesn't really have any terrible matchups, and he can chaingrab Fox+Falco. Shiek gives him trouble but most pro marths will tell you that she is really only a "soft counter". His tipper allows him to KO at very low %'s, and whether or not an opponent DIs his reach enables him to follow up his combos reguardless. Many marths have told me that Peach is more even than a counter but reaguardless he still outranges her. >_> He is just too good. Ken uses Marth for obvious reasons. KM13 uses Marth for obvious reasons. Almost every pro has a Marth to fall back on b/c he is just that good. You cannot really underestimate the power of a sucessful Ken combo, and his ability to edgeguard is truley unmatched. Pretty much he doesn't really have any terrible matchups, and his range makes him a force to be reckoned with. Chaingrab ect. Marth for #3 <(^_^)b

Falco for fourth.. Yes, he does have the shine, and probably the best approach in the game.. however his recovery is what holds him back, and his grab game is mid tier at best. There are alot of Peaches out there, and they can give Falco a harder time than IC's. Dash Attacks are nice, but DownSmashes are better. Her turnip, and air game totally neutralizes his already abizzzmmaal recovery, and her DownSmash allows her to do lots of damage very quickly... I've seen peaches that can barely float cancel take 2 stock off pro falcos just by DS'ing, and Chaingrabbing. Falco is also rediculously easy to combo; difficult to get into a combo mind you, but once he's in that combo it becomes fatal for him. Now you ask "well then why is Fox in the #1 spot"? the answer is that his recovery enables him get combo'ed and live. Falco's does not. Simple. Even PC Chris knows better than to use Falco against a Peach... that is why he pulls out Fox. Peach is the reason Falco will never be second; Marth+IC's+FD just add to the formula. Falco for #4 <(^_^)b

When was the last time anyone ever (and i mean ever) saw a Shiek win a tournament?? Of Course since Shiek's chaingrab made half of the almost playable characters in the game obsolete she must be given the #5 spot. So do I really need to justify why she is placed here. Yes she is top 5.. but if she is not more "broken" than Fox, Peach, Falco, and Marth what place is left... Shiek for #5 <(^_^)b

Before i sign off I would like to review the broken'ness of the top 5 characters...

Fox: Shine, Lasers, UpSmash, UpAir, Grabgame...
Peach: DownSmash, Turnips, Float, FloatCancel, ChainGrab, Chaingrab...
Marth: FSmash, Grabgame, Range, Chaingrab, Tipper...
Falco: Shine, Lasers, Speed...
Shiek: Chaingrab, Grabgame, FAir, Needles...

So there you have it. But wait there's more:

#1 in Japan- Mikeal=Peach
#1 in United S- Ken= Marth+Fox
#2 in Japan- ... = probably Fox >_>
#2 in United S- PC Chris= Fox+Falco+Marth
Original #2 in US- Azen= Shiek+Everyone Else <_<

My 2 cents...

Good Day Sirs.
 

NJzFinest

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Attention Noobs

Before any noobs post:

AlphaZealot said:
The tier list is a measure of how characters stack up in tournament play according to the current metagame.

So, no, character potential has nothing to do with the list, at least in the sense that you are trying to predict how a character will evolve to be played a year from now.

The list is just a current representation of how things play out on the tournament scene as a result of the metagame. Falco's game has been evolving over the last year and as a result we have seen Falco shoot up a few notches. Fox's game has undergone that same evolution. Meanwhile very little has been added to Sheik's metagame. Chu Dat started a revolution with Ice Climbers, but it was slow to catch on, which is why the previous list has the Ice Climbers lower than this new list. The new list actually takes into account that other people are playing the Ice Climbers, not just Chu Dat (meep, azn lep, among a few others).

This list is the RESULT of tournament play. Keep that in mind. Many people seem to be saying that this list will influence people, while it is really the opposite way around, the list is influenced by the competitive community. On the noncompetitve newby level the tier list may seem to be counter to logic or just a popularity contest, but it really isn't. Certain characters are played more frequently than other characters because they have more going for them.
The King said:
LISTEN.

It seems as though many of you don't quite see what we've put together here. This is not like the last tier list, folks. While the last list centered around specific character strength (their worth on paper, excluding matchup analysis) even more than the actual matchups, for the creation of this list we tried to encompass today's tournament metagame scene, and took great consideration with each character's strengths in relation to other matchups. Characters have moved up or down due to the fact that today's tourney scene has changed somewhat since the last MBR list was generated.

Some characters do better in the metagame due to fresh advancements or tactics being discovered. Some characters now do worse than they used to, as our technical levels have evolved to make them slightly more obsolete. A character like sheik, while once the utmost broken character in smash, hasn't lost any of the qualities that made her broken. What lowered her down was the saturation of technically sound foxes and falcos in today's tourney scene. when played technical, Fox and Falco can both give difficult matchups to Sheik. Couple this with our own strategic answers on fighting and defeating sheiks, and this does nothing but hurt her current placing within the tiers. She hasn't worsened, a few characters have simply thrived.

Falco has only in the last half-year really began to show his dominance. With a terrific approach, stopping all in their tracks with a solid laser game, falco is free to do what he wants upon approach. Couple that with lightning fast close-range combat, with lag times and priority that few characters can solve without a great evasive game, pillar tactics for powerful and long-sustained combos, and some excellent and versatile finishing moves, and you've got a character worthy of claiming the 2nd spot below Fox, by only very small margin.
It doesn't hurt that Falco has confident matchups versus nearly every single tourney viable character in the game, save IC's.

We in the SBR put tons of effort, thought, and analysis into the creation of this final list. The panalists were made up of the most qualified smashers and tourney organizers in the scene today, and we had a lot of experience to pull from.

Just remember, you may see characters like "bowser above kirby", but that's only because his metagame has advanced enough to justify it, while kirby's has remained stale, and is only hurt for it.

King Out
The list isn't based on soley on "the best character" to "the worst". I don't want to read anymore post like "Zelda should be higher because of this move and that" or any other crap because this isn't that this list is really about. What matters is that Zelda players don't do well in tournaments, therefore Zelda doesn't look so hot on the tier list. I don't want to see "so and so" is a better character then someone else and therfore should be higher.
TOURNAMENT RESULTS PPL
 

BRoomer
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The list isn't based on soley on "the best character" to "the worst". I don't want to read anymore post like "Zelda should be higher because of this move and that" or any other crap because this isn't that this list is really about. What matters is that Zelda players don't do well in tournaments, therefore Zelda doesn't look so hot on the tier list. I don't want to see "so and so" is a better character then someone else and therfore should be higher.
TOURNAMENT RESULTS PPL
Well put FaF.
 

JFox

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I think that is a bunch of crap FoxandFalco. If we wanted a tier list to be based on tourney results rather than character potential, we would simply look at who the best people in the world play. But look at how high Marth is on the tier list, and tell me who out there really deserves that spot other than Ken? And tell me what Sheik has been doing that well that deserves the third spot? We all know there are more Peach's out there, but they keep their spot because everyone knows that you have to compare characters to the entire tier list, not just to the character people play a lot in tourney. Marth and Sheik are in their spots because they rock the entire low and bottom tiers. Otherwise Sheik wouldn't be on top cuz the most played characters are Fox and Falco.

This list is not simply about tourney results. Its about character match ups when compared with the entire cast, not just that characters people use a lot in tournament.
 

Drephen

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uhhh every tier list so far has been based on tourney results

you can want it to mean whatever but its still based on tournament results
 

NJzFinest

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I think that is a bunch of crap FoxandFalco. If we wanted a tier list to be based on tourney results rather than character potential, we would simply look at who the best people in the world play. But look at how high Marth is on the tier list, and tell me who out there really deserves that spot other than Ken? And tell me what Sheik has been doing that well that deserves the third spot? We all know there are more Peach's out there, but they keep their spot because everyone knows that you have to compare characters to the entire tier list, not just to the character people play a lot in tourney. Marth and Sheik are in their spots because they rock the entire low and bottom tiers. Otherwise Sheik wouldn't be on top cuz the most played characters are Fox and Falco.

This list is not simply about tourney results. Its about character match ups when compared with the entire cast, not just that characters people use a lot in tournament.
JFox, that's a bunch of bull****. In case you didn't notice, Ken is the ONLY Marth player that places that high. When you look at tournaments, the majority of the players doing well are fox/falco players...that's why they are top tier by theirselfs. You might as well say Link, Pikachu, and Luigi should be placed way higher because Azen places so good with them.....but you can't because he's the only person who does.

And about character matchups, of course the tier list is based on that, I didn't it wasn't. I mean, Fox and Falco have NO counter and almost always have the advantage in all matchups. I didn't say it was simply and only tournament results. I didn't even say it wasn't soley on who's the better character. But I respect the fact that you took the freedom to not read what I said, rather skim and assume.

I'm just saying, it isn't a list based on who's good and who isn't. Why you think it keeps changing? It's because the people who use these characters place differently as time goes on. For example, the sudden rise of these great Ice Climber players... or the HUGE rise of all of these Falco players. I mean...how many Mew2 players do see compared to Fox players? Majority has it's on part in the tier list.
 

Rose

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I hope this topic doesn't get filled with n00b bull**** like how Ness needs to be higher because he has "potential" or how "tiers mean nothing."

On the subject of Peach, this the way I see it...There are many Peach players out there now, growing in number, and for good reason. Peach is a very versatile character with no true counters. I think Peach has definitely shown she's capable of performing very well at tournaments (and most Peach players play Peach straight-up and rarely need to use anyone else). So does she really not place as well as Marth and Sheik? That just doesn't seem right.

And I think space animals give Marth and Sheik just as much trouble as Peach.
 

Lixivium

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Ice Climbers shouldn't be that high just because Chu is so good with them. Otherwise Yoshi and Roy would be Middle Tier also.
 

Rye

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I actually have a question about low-tier tournies:

Does "low tier" include Mid tier and below? I remember at some point they did, back when there were like 7 tiers. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but can someone clarify? Does low tier now only count low and bottom tier?
 

phish-it

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Yes, it's low and bottem tier. Thats why its called a "low tier" tourney rather than a "middle tier" one.
 

JJJ.Brawler

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the thing I don't get, how the **** is Roy WAY beneath Marth!?!?!?!?! they're practically the SAME!! Actually, roy is technically BETTER than Marth ( according to Nintendo, who MADE the game!!)
 

Lixivium

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the thing I don't get, how the **** is Roy WAY beneath Marth!?!?!?!?! they're practically the SAME!! Actually, roy is technically BETTER than Marth ( according to Nintendo, who MADE the game!!)
Roy is inferior to Marth in almost every conceivable way.

Sorry but there is no debating this.
 

NJzFinest

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the thing I don't get, how the **** is Roy WAY beneath Marth!?!?!?!?! they're practically the SAME!! Actually, roy is technically BETTER than Marth ( according to Nintendo, who MADE the game!!)
Didn't you read my post? The list isn't about who's better, it's mainly about who does well in tournaments and who doesn't.
By the way, Marth is way better than Roy, play a good Marth player instead of your younger sister's Marth. Last time I checked, Nintendo representatives mentioned Marth being the better character. I think my sources would be better that yours just because of the arrogance of your post.
 

krazyzyko

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I still do not understand why Falco is in the #2 spot.. I'm leaning towards 4th or 5th. Peach is a much better option. She has adv on Falco, C Falcon, Samus.. is even with fox.. and technically shiek, and marth have advantage on her. however we all know that those fights are almost even. If Ken is the best player in the world, then how did his Marth *whom has advantage* lose to Mikael's Peach?? Everyone agree with the top 5... it cannot really be disputed, however i'm much for infavor of this:

Top Tier:
Fox
Peach

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
Sheik

... as you can see Fox is still currently in the #1 position I do not believe that anyone will dispute that, however I have moved peach into the 2nd place. Not only is she the best partner for teams, but also can float cancel (effectivly making her arials fasters than falco's and fox's), her DI and Float make her able to survive non UpSmashes, and Tips well into the 150's, and the ability to pull out Turnips enables her to camp, and spam allowing her to stall matches and **** recoverys... can anyone say StitchFace.... Did i also forget to mention her downsmash. At zero percent she can UpThrow DownSmash Fox, and Falco and they cannot escape taking 48 damage. That is rediculous... but wait, i'm on FD she i guess she'll zero-death me after doing 48 damage by chaingrabbing me.... >_> so yeah. Peach for #2 <(^_^)b

... must go to cheer practice. updating this post later...

Until next time..

Good Day Sirs.
The shine and SHL it's just too broken, and Marth has more range than Peach. I believe it's OK how it is already.

....later
 

CodeBlue

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One main reason that I see is because of his low odds of recovery once off the stage. His >+B just doesn't slow down his fall enough to allow the ^+B to help him get back on most occassions.
 

Rye

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Roy will always be greater than Marth. He has phyre, which is effective against... water type pokemon.
 

Eci4

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I used to think they new tier list was way off, but I went to some tournies, played more people than just my small playgroup, and realized that for the most part, it is dead on... there is just so much you can do with the higher tier characters that its crazy....
 

NJzFinest

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Have you ever seen Fumi use him?
I'm pretty sure only one player from a different country effects doesn't the American Tier List....
Japan has there own tier list.

So...think of how our yosih players such as gabe, bringerofdeath, direvulcan, etc (I know I'm missing alot) have shown what a how well yoshi can do tournament play.
 

Skyshroud

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F&F: Do you have a copy of the Japanese Tier List? I think it might be interesting to compare to our American one. It might reveal some information that could make a change and definitely would give us a view into different playstyles.
 

Lucky_Sharmz19

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I think Luigi should be higher. Luigi has too many **** match ups against most of the lower tiered people. Especially against Roy because of Roy's crap aerial attacks. All Luigi needs to do is get Roy in the air and Luigi can pretty much do what ever he wants from there. I can't disagree with Link being above Luigi though. Maybe they should both be in the Mid Tier section.
 

freeman123

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I don't know about everybody else's copies of the game, but on mine all of the characters are exactly the same way they were last year.
 

StripesOrBars

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You know the Japanesse tier list might be a bit different than American one since CJ uses DK and Fumi as you metion uses Yoshi I think it might be changed. Although I think maybe a International..tier list maybe will work?
LOL @ CJ using DK.

Not in 06.
I don't know about everybody else's copies of the game, but on mine all of the characters are exactly the same way they were last year.
That's cuz you suck at this game.


I still think top tier shoud have been all 5 of the broken characters.
 

Kevvviiinnn

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foxandfalco said:
Before any noobs post:


AlphaZealot said:
The tier list is a measure of how characters stack up in tournament play according to the current metagame.

So, no, character potential has nothing to do with the list, at least in the sense that you are trying to predict how a character will evolve to be played a year from now.

The list is just a current representation of how things play out on the tournament scene as a result of the metagame. Falco's game has been evolving over the last year and as a result we have seen Falco shoot up a few notches. Fox's game has undergone that same evolution. Meanwhile very little has been added to Sheik's metagame. Chu Dat started a revolution with Ice Climbers, but it was slow to catch on, which is why the previous list has the Ice Climbers lower than this new list. The new list actually takes into account that other people are playing the Ice Climbers, not just Chu Dat (meep, azn lep, among a few others).

This list is the RESULT of tournament play. Keep that in mind. Many people seem to be saying that this list will influence people, while it is really the opposite way around, the list is influenced by the competitive community. On the noncompetitve newby level the tier list may seem to be counter to logic or just a popularity contest, but it really isn't. Certain characters are played more frequently than other characters because they have more going for them.

The King said:
LISTEN.

It seems as though many of you don't quite see what we've put together here. This is not like the last tier list, folks. While the last list centered around specific character strength (their worth on paper, excluding matchup analysis) even more than the actual matchups, for the creation of this list we tried to encompass today's tournament metagame scene, and took great consideration with each character's strengths in relation to other matchups. Characters have moved up or down due to the fact that today's tourney scene has changed somewhat since the last MBR list was generated.

Some characters do better in the metagame due to fresh advancements or tactics being discovered. Some characters now do worse than they used to, as our technical levels have evolved to make them slightly more obsolete. A character like sheik, while once the utmost broken character in smash, hasn't lost any of the qualities that made her broken. What lowered her down was the saturation of technically sound foxes and falcos in today's tourney scene. when played technical, Fox and Falco can both give difficult matchups to Sheik. Couple this with our own strategic answers on fighting and defeating sheiks, and this does nothing but hurt her current placing within the tiers. She hasn't worsened, a few characters have simply thrived.

Falco has only in the last half-year really began to show his dominance. With a terrific approach, stopping all in their tracks with a solid laser game, falco is free to do what he wants upon approach. Couple that with lightning fast close-range combat, with lag times and priority that few characters can solve without a great evasive game, pillar tactics for powerful and long-sustained combos, and some excellent and versatile finishing moves, and you've got a character worthy of claiming the 2nd spot below Fox, by only very small margin.
It doesn't hurt that Falco has confident matchups versus nearly every single tourney viable character in the game, save IC's.

We in the SBR put tons of effort, thought, and analysis into the creation of this final list. The panalists were made up of the most qualified smashers and tourney organizers in the scene today, and we had a lot of experience to pull from.

Just remember, you may see characters like "bowser above kirby", but that's only because his metagame has advanced enough to justify it, while kirby's has remained stale, and is only hurt for it.

King Out
The list isn't based on soley on "the best character" to "the worst". I don't want to read anymore post like "Zelda should be higher because of this move and that" or any other crap because this isn't that this list is really about. What matters is that Zelda players don't do well in tournaments, therefore Zelda doesn't look so hot on the tier list. I don't want to see "so and so" is a better character then someone else and therfore should be higher.
TOURNAMENT RESULTS PPL
add this to the first post before this thread gets locked!
 

bioalp43

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The Japanese Tier list is probably different because if the tier list is based on tournment results.......Japan's tournments only allow final destination and dreamland, so it gives an advantage to some characthers, and a disadvantage to to others
 

Mic_128

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So...think of how our yosih players such as gabe, bringerofdeath, direvulcan, etc (I know I'm missing alot) have shown what a how well yoshi can do tournament play.
Bringers Australian, not American.
 

DDM

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I guess the tournament results are a little shocking to me. I thought Roy (power and reach) might be higher and Samus would be lower.

I keep on learning.
 

uremog

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roy's reach, as you say, is hard to use effectively and has basically no easy kills (phyyyre doesn't really count as an advantage unless you yell "phyyyre!" every time you burn the opponent). samus has pretty much all the best of natural stats (weight, floatiness) plus recovery and a lot more.
 
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