Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 So now that we know MLG hosts ridiculous smash tournaments...

[Blacknight99923]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=73125


Inui has officially switched sides on the issue

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=73125


Inui has officially switched sides on the issue

If inui switched sides does that mean he's not using MK anymore?

 

[Sharky]

I seem to recall Esam beating DSF on Norfair (whereas you lost to DSF on Rainbow Cruise!).

Norfair is one of Pikachu's best stages as well, just saying. =/


btw as far as I know four MK's were in the top 8 here, which is comparable to most nationals of any other stage variety that I've seen.

and lol inuimad.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Norfair is one of Pikachu's best stages as well, just saying. =/

And GG is awesome for DDD and snake, other stages that are great for MK are in high demand for other chars, et cetera. If there are any stages we should look into getting rid of on the stage list, it's RC and Brinstar.

 

[Mota]

Inui...pro-ban?!

Wow, good stuff...I think.

Ban MK da bess

 

[etecoon]

And GG is awesome for DDD and snake, other stages that are great for MK are in high demand for other chars, et cetera. If there are any stages we should look into getting rid of on the stage list, it's RC and Brinstar.

don't think so on RC but completely right on brinstar, brinstar is worse than norfair IMO and everyone hates norfair being legal

 

[fkacyan]

Why did nobody believe me when I said Orion made Inui go from anti to pro-ban?

You guys really don't know how gay this kid plays lol

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i am a believer now thiocyanide.

 

[Eddie G]

Why did nobody believe me when I said Orion made Inui go from anti to pro-ban?

You guys really don't know how gay this kid plays lol

I believed you fyi. Orion seems like the type who would choose to play like that.

 

[Orion*]

The idea is to have a fair starter stage for the first match

then why are you pro mk having a cp in his first match >_> that doesnt make sense

 

[Overswarm]

then why are you pro mk having a cp in his first match >_> that doesnt make sense

I'm not. I'm for a 9 stage starter list.

 

[etecoon]

then why are you pro mk having a cp in his first match >_> that doesnt make sense

it's almost like making MK do better is favorable to his agenda on some issue or something, maybe just my imagination though!

 

[iRJi]

I'm not. I'm for a 9 stage starter list.

7 is better, to be honest. I have been talking about it slightly on the Atlantic north section, and it is quite agreeable that it will provide better results.

 

[Overswarm]

7 is better, to be honest. I have been talking about it slightly on the Atlantic north section, and it is quite agreeable that it will provide better results.

It doesn't.

We've gone over and over it in the BBR a zillion times, literally putting the most common starter stages from 7 and 9 starters in most upper tier matchups and found that 9 starters is superior. Having 7 starters forces you to choose one style of character to get an advantage, which is inherently unfair.

 

[ADHD]

I'm not. I'm for a 9 stage starter list.

Unless you can elaborate on why metaknight is on fair grounds game 1 when the stage is lylat, or even WORSE (castle seige/delfino/fun campy ps1) then you are basically contradicting yourself. Did you even account that metaknights will strike every somewhat fair stage under that list imaginable or practice striking through with it in a REAL situation?

 

[Overswarm]

Unless you can elaborate on why metaknight is on fair grounds game 1 when the stage is lylat, or even WORSE (castle seige/delfino/fun campy ps1) then you are basically contradicting yourself. Did you even account that metaknights will strike every somewhat fair stage under that list imaginable or practice striking through with it in a REAL situation?

Give me the list of nine

 

[ADHD]

Give me the list of nine

Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island

Metaknight will strike (if he's intelligent) Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, and Pokemon Stadium 1. If you are pro-ban how can you advertise these stages?

 

[etecoon]

I suppose it's different for other characters, but being a snake player, starting out on lylat/CS instead of a neutral vs MK sounds great, yes plz

 

[Overswarm]

Stages MK wouldn't like to start on (no order):
Battlefield
Final Destination
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville

Stages MK wouldn't mind to start on (no order):

Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Yoshi’s Island

Stages MK would like to start on (no order):
Castle Siege
Lylat Cruise


A total of five acceptable stages, two stages that give MK a pretty decent advantage (stage one and two are great vs. Diddy on CS, and the tilting on stage 3 actually makes it not so bad vs. Diddy in CSiege, and Lylat's tilting and platforms really hurt Diddy's pressure game).


This is in my experience playing Diddy Kongs. Delfino isn't a bad Diddy stage in the slightest, and Halberd is actually pretty good... but it has some MK-centric features that help MK so it evens out. YI is frustrating for Diddy, but mangeable.


Is any of this incorrect to you, ADHD?

 

[Overswarm]

I suppose it's different for other characters, but being a snake player, starting out on lylat/CS instead of a neutral vs MK sounds great, yes plz

Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island

What?

If the two "bad stages" are CS or Lylat, get rid of them. MK gets rid of FD and Halberd. You can now get rid of Delfino and then whatever else you want. o_O

 

[Overswarm]

Battlefield
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island

Metaknight will strike (if he's intelligent) Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, and Pokemon Stadium 1. If you are pro-ban how can you advertise these stages?

ADHD, could you list me Diddy's five best stages?

 

[etecoon]

that wasn't a sarcastic great, 9 stage strike list would definitely benefit snake more in that MU IMO, he can strike delfino and every neutral except FD, wiiiin

 

[Flayl]

wow i just realized with that stage list characters that can get chaingrabbed by D3 and don't camp him to death have to ban castle siege, delfino, final destination and pokemon stadium

there isn't any thought process, it's either strike those or get 0-death'd, wall chaingrabbed or FD chaingrabbed

then characters that could take him to battlefield now have to play against him on smashville

 

[iRJi]

It doesn't.

We've gone over and over it in the BBR a zillion times, literally putting the most common starter stages from 7 and 9 starters in most upper tier matchups and found that 9 starters is superior. Having 7 starters forces you to choose one style of character to get an advantage, which is inherently unfair.

I would like for you to go into more detail please.

Stages MK wouldn't like to start on (no order):
Battlefield
Final Destination
Pokémon Stadium
Smashville

Stages MK wouldn't mind to start on (no order):

Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Yoshi’s Island

Stages MK would like to start on (no order):
Castle Siege
Lylat Cruise

I would like to hear why MK would not like to start on Smashville. From preference, and dealing with it very often since I live in NJ, MK's love smashville, and personally I feel it is his best neutral over BF.

I also use Castle as a CP against metaknight on multiple occasions, only losing once when I CP'd it. My win ratio against metaknight players are above 90% out of about 20+ games on testing.

Again, I would like for you to go into more detail on this too.

Edit: Sorry, I am assuming that the 2nd part is against Diddy, and I missed that. I would still like for you go to into more detail on the first part though.

 

[etecoon]

I think he was only talking about the diddy MU, I think smashville is either MK's best or second best neutral overall too but not against diddy

 

[Juushichi]

I would like for you to go into more detail please.



I would like to hear why MK would not like to start on Smashville. From preference, and dealing with it very often since I live in NJ, MK's love smashville, and personally I feel it is his best neutral over BF.

I also use Castle as a CP against metaknight on multiple occasions, only losing once when I CP'd it. My win ratio against metaknight players are above 90% out of about 20+ games on testing.

Again, I would like for you to go into more detail on this too.

I believe that he's essentially saying, if you're allowed to start on those stages, they would overall be likable over a more neutral starter. Why not give your character more of an advantage?

 

[Overswarm]

I would like for you to go into more detail please.



I would like to hear why MK would not like to start on Smashville. From preference, and dealing with it very often since I live in NJ, MK's love smashville, and personally I feel it is his best neutral over BF.

I also use Castle as a CP against metaknight on multiple occasions, only losing once when I CP'd it. My win ratio against metaknight players are above 90% out of about 20+ games on testing.

Again, I would like for you to go into more detail on this too.

This is versus Diddy, in relation to ADHD's query.

 

[iRJi]

This is versus Diddy, in relation to ADHD's query.

Yea, I made my edit to late for you to see I suppose. I would still like for you to go into detail on why 7 is worse then 9 starters.

 

[Overswarm]

Yea, I made my edit to late for you to see I suppose. I would still like for you to go into detail on why 7 is worse then 9 starters.

s'ok, I should have clarified when I first posted it.

7 is worse than 9 because 9 gives you the best possible starter list for the most amount of matches, at least within the higher tier and above.

 

[Masky]

s'ok, I should have clarified when I first posted it.

7 is worse than 9 because 9 gives you the best possible starter list for the most amount of matches, at least within the higher tier and above.

so 7 is worse than 9... because 7 is worse than 9?

 

[Overswarm]

so 7 is worse than 9... because 7 is worse than 9?

I'm not sure exactly what else he's looking for. Nine stages allows for characters of varying diversity to be played. Having only 3 or 5 or 7 results in certain characters types to be guaranteed a good stage for them in the matchup depending on what stages are selected. Nine does not, and results in a "Ugh, really?" stage for both characters in most matchups.

 

[CR4SH]

Os vs. Adhd?

*gets popcorn*

 

[Masky]

I'm not sure exactly what else he's looking for. Nine stages allows for characters of varying diversity to be played. Having only 3 or 5 or 7 results in certain characters types to be guaranteed a good stage for them in the matchup depending on what stages are selected. Nine does not, and results in a "Ugh, really?" stage for both characters in most matchups.

Smash balls also allows for characters of varying diversity to be played, but obviously that's a bad idea. "Allowing for characters of varying diversity" is not a good reason

 

[AvaricePanda]

I'm not sure exactly what else he's looking for. Nine stages allows for characters of varying diversity to be played. Having only 3 or 5 or 7 results in certain characters types to be guaranteed a good stage for them in the matchup depending on what stages are selected. Nine does not, and results in a "Ugh, really?" stage for both characters in most matchups.

Can you point out the specific characters/match-ups that get (I'm assuming unwarranted) benefits in a 7 stage starter as compared to a 9 stage starter? I still don't see why 9 is better than 7.

7 seems like the best option IMO

 

[CR4SH]

"Allowing for characters of varying diversity" is not a good reason

Yes it is.

I don't understand how you could make that statement sober.

Off topic edit, feel free to ignore: Is there a way to make not showing your sig default? Mine is obnoxious for most things, and its getting annoying to forget and edit it out of every post. Please shoot me a PM.

 

[Overswarm]

Smash balls also allows for characters of varying diversity to be played, but obviously that's a bad idea. "Allowing for characters of varying diversity" is not a good reason

You're either deliberately obtuse or need to think before you post.

"varying diversity" has nothing to do with smashballs. That doesn't even make any ****ing sense, you just pulled something out of the air and said "I'm pretty sure this is a point". Then you asked that one girl that you like and you think KIND of likes you because she talks to you when you talk to her (unlike Jessica, that stupid *****) and she gave you the thumbs up and did that cute little wink and smile thing where she kinda turns her head and closes one eye and opens her mouth in a giant smile. She probably practiced that **** or something but you're pretty sure she only does it for you, except for that time Billy was talking to her by the locker and you saw her make that same face, but they haven't dated for months so it isn't a big deal. But she gave you the thumbs up so you're like "awesome, I'm sure this is a valid argument" and then you realized the Daily Show was on and turned on your TV but only got "the moment of Zen" (which is okay, it's like your favorite part). The Colbert Report was on afterwards but you didn't really feel like watching that stuff so you went back to smashboards and you just posted something without fully understanding a point and decided to throw smash balls in there because you're pretty sure Jessica checks your smashboards posts for mentions of her and she'll TOTALLY consider this a compliment.



The above post makes more sense than yours.


Stage striking has a point. It has a PURPOSE. We used "random" for a long time until some people were like "holy ****ing ****, half these "neutrals" aren't neutrals" (I WAS ONE OF THEM) "neutrals is a misnomer! These kids are getting stages that are COUNTERPICKS at RANDOM for GAME ONE. That is HUGE."

That **** had to GO. We wanted as close to a fair stage as possible for game one and we're like "stage striking yeaaaaaaaah". The idea was they'd both strike the stages that were worst for them in the matchup and end with the best one available.

We went through the stages and picked nine starters and it worked great.

Then someone was like "What the ****ing hell, this is bull****. I picked Ice Climbers and didn't start on a counterpick, that makes these *******s hard to ****ing play". Or something like that. People with intellect rivaled by garden spades decided to get together and scream randomly at passerbys until someone decided to listen and then ended up lowering the stage amount to such a ridiculously low number that it was WORSE than random. Some areas literally had Final Destination, Smashville, and Battlefield, because apparently flat+plat is the holy grail of competitive design. No one seemed to care that the people saynig "this is awesome" mained characters that did better on this stages.

We saw the rise of these characters and it wsa because of their guaranteed "good starting stage". Everyone else was at a disdavantage. YOU COULD ONLY PLAY ONE TYPE OF CHARACTER TO DO THIS: Those that did well on flat+plat stages. Characters that played well in dynamic arenas or those without symemtrical aspects got the shaft.

With NINE stages, you can play both characters that prefer flat+plat as well as those that prefer dynamic stages. This creates a wider diversity of viable characters for game one which is the entire point of stage striking.

"Allowing for characters of varying diversity" to be viable IS THE ENTIRE REASON STAGE STRIKNIG WAS INVENTINGAKLSDJGKLASDJGKLASDJAKLSDBJAEKLFBJAERIOUJHAEPGHJAEFKL:

If it WASN'T, we'd all be playing on whatever stage whoever had the biggest megaphone shouted out because having a fair stage to start on is the only logical conclusion for a competitive ruleset


GAREAERALKWEJGKLAWGG

GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

 

[Raziek]

Overswarm wins the thread. xD

 

[Overswarm]

Can you point out the specific characters/match-ups that get (I'm assuming unwarranted) benefits in a 7 stage starter as compared to a 9 stage starter? I still don't see why 9 is better than 7.

7 seems like the best option IMO

...no.

Nine is better because it gives a wider variety of stages that allow for a wider variety of characters to be used.


Can you tell me why we should lower from nine to seven?

I'm not going to through and show you a stage striking process for 60 friggin' matchups though. No way. This discussion took forever in the BBR because there were like 5 people that couldn't understand that it wasn't that it was a "fair match" to have Diddy play MK on smashville game one, it's just that diddy is a crappy character on many stages and requires a ton of work to use properly when he isn't given a CP stage game one



Btw, if you want a specific character matchup thingy or wahtever, you have to give me the 7/9 stages.

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't diversity pretty much mean non-MK? In which case narrowing it down to 7 less MK friendly stages would be better than giving the MK player 9 stages to choose from.

Allowing the MK to ban 4 stages is worse than allowing the MK to ban 3 (assuming that in general the list is non-MK friendly).

 

[AlphaZealot]

Can you tell me why we should lower from nine to seven?

So Diddy, Ice Climbers, and Falco don't suck!

Doesn't diversity pretty much mean non-MK? In which case narrowing it down to 7 less MK friendly stages would be better than giving the MK player 9 stages to choose from.

People need to stop talking about MK. "Less MK friendly" stages still has MK at an advantage, so it is entirely pointless to craft a stagelist with MK solely in mind when no matter what you do every stage will have him with an advantage.

There are approximately 1,200 different possible MU's in this game. A 9 stage starter list will get you a fair starting stage more often for the majority of those match ups then a 5 stage starter list (especially when your typical 5 stage-starter list is almost entirely stages with the same exact attributes!).