Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 So now that we know MLG hosts ridiculous smash tournaments...

[ADHD]

Or maybe, just maybe, there is no rational or convincing argument that would justify the sole standardization of just one arrangement of the stagelist due to the insane amount of variables that are floating around in this topic. Metaknight just happens to be the only independent variable here. So yeah, tell me Wyatt, what if the roles were reversed? What if what is known as a liberal stagelist today was actually the standardized stagelist for the past two years and you were to present to me that same underlined question? That just shows that there is no possible perfect justification for the standardization of any stagelist arragement, because you would get this same type of situation every single time!

But it's not like that so this "what if" doesn't matter to me whatsoever.

So, according to you, it is ok to argue against the allowance of different stages to benefit different characters AND, at the same time, argue that it is perfectly fine to make an attempt to sorely reduce the supposed advantages granted to the already independent variable in this argument? Oh please...do explain your logic to me.

These different stages that "benefit characters" give more disadvantages to the majority of other characters as well as boost the already best-in-the-game character that is causing major problems at the moment in the first place. It's not as balanced as the original stagelist the East Coast have come up with.. As for the neutrals (GOD FORBID I CALL IT THAT) at MLG, it was clearly not thought up well that there would be problems to multiple characters. Metaknight can start anywhere--let's not make it worse for the characters that already struggle with him despite having even match-up ratios. Falco has to win game 1 against metaknight, ice climbers have to win game 1 against metaknight, diddy kong has to win game 1 against metaknight, snake has to win game 1 against metaknight (now with the fiesta of counterpicks that encourage air-planking), and many more.

Diversity is an up in this game community, right? So let's leave DDD's walking infinite on. HAHA, that'll get em'.

Yep...M2K, Judge, Xzax, etc are all terrible, terrible Metaknights. I have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to my toughest matchup in the game whom I've studied and encounter frequently, nay, excessively. Cut the conceited remarks, Wyatt.

You're the one showing a scrub mentality here. U mad about that 6th place down South ma doo? See how unnecessary that is?

Eh, not convinced. Besides, I thought everyone was arguing with me so much in the first place because they assumed I was salty about 6th. What else is new? Plus, all peach mains think green greens is fair.

 

[Eddie G]

I don't really care about other pages, I'm telling you, in this case, to get off of Sunshade's ****.

You said "meatriding" as if it was constant. I proved you wrong. Now get off my ****.

What you choose to believe or care about in this instance is irrelevant. Get over it.

 

[ADHD]

****.

My thoughts exactly, Sunshade.

I am also glad that you find things like flying lava streams with massive hitboxes, bombs and falling blocks, as well as very short left and right boarders of the screen to add an interesting amount of excitement and depth to tournaments.

I personally love fighting with item substitutes as well.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

well i mean all u have to do is down b and out comes one of the best projectiles in da game

i personally find bouncing bananas ontop off blocks to be pretty hilarious

 

[Orion*]

nobody has adequately answered my question

 

[Eddie G]

But it's not like that so this "what if" doesn't matter to me whatsoever.

A cheap cop-out. I can't say I'm surprised.

These different stages that "benefit characters" give more disadvantages to the majority of other characters as well as boost the already best-in-the-game character that is causing major problems at the moment in the first place. It's not as balanced as the original stagelist the East Coast have come up with.. As for the neutrals (GOD FORBID I CALL IT THAT) at MLG, it was clearly not thought up well that there would be problems to multiple characters. Metaknight can start anywhere--let's not make it worse for the characters that already struggle with him despite having even match-up ratios. Falco has to win game 1 against metaknight, ice climbers have to win game 1 against metaknight, diddy kong has to win game 1 against metaknight, snake has to win game 1 against metaknight (now with the fiesta of counterpicks that encourage air-planking), and many more.

Diversity is an up in this game community, right? So let's leave DDD's walking infinite on. HAHA, that'll get em'.

MLG will probably be as stern about keeping the stagelist as EC has been with their assortment. People have already told you, I've already told you, suck it up or just don't go to an MLG event if it's such a bother to you. That's as simple as I can say it.

Eh, not convinced. Besides, I thought everyone was arguing with me so much in the first place because they assumed I was salty about 6th.

Wrong. I'm arguing with you because the perspective you have constantly displayed has been that of a Diddy main, and not of a person who looks at the bigger picture.

What else is new? Plus, all peach mains think green greens is fair.

Lol seriously Wyatt? I had already explained my stance and reason for taking part in this argument, and if you had taken the time to read it...you'd already remember that I'm not viewing this from just a Peach main's perspective.

I'll give you a hint: "my worst matchup destroys me on almost all of these newly allowed stages more than he would on any of the previously standardized starters, and yet I continue to argue for a more liberal stagelist. Where is the bias in that?"

Shall I go fishing to refresh your memory?

 

[ADHD]

A cheap cop-out. I can't say I'm surprised.

How so? Why do would I worry about something that's not the case as opposed to something that is? I'd main the character regardless, to answer your question.

MLG will probably be as stern about keeping the stagelist as EC has been with their assortment. People have already told you, I've already told you, suck it up or just don't go to an MLG event if it's such a bother to you. That's as simple as I can say it.

If it was as simple as that you would not be arguing with me for this long.

Wrong. I'm arguing with you because the perspective you have constantly displayed has been that of a Diddy main, and not of a person who looks at the bigger picture.

Or I'd prefer to have straight results rather than crazy upsets disturbing the natural flow of tournaments. If too many upsets happen, people will no longer be satisfied.
I do not like randomness, if you haven't noticed.

Lol seriously Wyatt? I had already explained my stance and reason for taking part in this argument, and if you had taken the time to read it...you'd already remember that I'm not viewing this from just a Peach main's perspective.

I'll give you a hint: "my worst matchup destroys me on almost all of these newly allowed stages more than he would on any of the previously standardized starters, and yet I continue to argue for a more liberal stagelist. Where is the bias in that?"

Shall I go fishing to refresh your memory?

So why are you arguing for this "more liberal" stagelist if you are admitting metaknight has an edge on your character (and others, but you haven't admitted that, yet) when he clearly can abuse them?

 

[Eddie G]

How so? Why do would I worry about something that's not the case as opposed to something that is? I'd main the character regardless, to answer your question.

I find that hard to sincerely believe, but I'll take your word for it.

If it was as simple as that you would not be arguing with me for this long.

Boredom at 10:30 at night. Just picking your brain a bit. Such is the internet lol.

Or I'd prefer to have straight results rather than crazy upsets disturbing the natural flow of tournaments. If too many upsets happen, people will no longer be satisfied.
I do not like randomness, if you haven't noticed.

"Natural flow"? What, you winning the money? I'd believe in the "natural order of things" as heavily as you do if I were the one who used to win money too. I personally find the upsets to be a refreshing experience, things were getting stale and I'm glad there is finally some new blood to step up and take the top spots.

Call me a hater on your previous string of success if you want, but my focal point is not on the money when it comes to playing this game since I make better money from my actual job so that can't be the case. I just play to be competitive, to improve, and I have fun doing it.

So why are you arguing for this "more liberal" stagelist if you are admitting metaknight has an edge on your character (and others, but you haven't admitted that, yet) when he clearly can abuse them?

Because I'm not biased enough to put my character or my preferences for her first! MK has the advantage on me in any setting, and even more so on some of these newly allowed stages, but I'm not going to let that cloud my judgment on what's going on with the rest of the roster. Can you honestly say the same?

 

[sunshade]

incorrect, you give that character MORE cp options. ex: frigate may be the best Overall cp, but norfair could be x characters best cp in y matchup.

Lets say we add Pictochat to a stage list. Thats another CP option for Metaknight but who cares? Its Pictochat. Metaknight wont counter-pick it so who cares that its another option?

Unless a stage added is better than your first or second best stage it wont see use. If your best stage is not banned you will counterpick it. If your best stage is banned you will pick your second best stage.

In metaknights case those two stages are Brinstar and Rainbow cruise. You can add stages like Pictochat, Jungle Japes, Pokemon Stadium 2 but that wont change. Thats why EC or WC stage lists help metaknight the same amount because in either case he has his two best stages.

The difference is that on a WC stage list other characters get very strong counter picks such as falco on jungle japes, and King Dedede on Green greens, which help them contend with Metaknight.

nobody cares about japes, that doesnt answer my question.

I does answer the question. Its adding a stage that Metaknight does well on without it helping him.

they make other characters better in other matchups, but they still give mk overall better cp options helping him .

Really? So adding Jungle japes would not help Falco when fighting Metaknight and adding
*Pictochat would not help Diddy*?

 

[Chuee]

and adding
*Pictochat would not help Diddy*?

See Pierce's post.

 

[sunshade]

See Pierce's post.

see the *'s? I thought they were a fairly obvious indication that this is debatable.

 

[solecalibur]

Pictochat is FD with objects that help diddy and falco kill, but anyone can use these objects and they are very rehearsed before they become hit boxes (just as norfair)

 

[sunshade]

they also allow diddy a chance to reset the fight and get two new bananas out, which is why I thought it was a good stage for him.

I also didn't say anything about it because I didn't really care but Pictochat is almost perfectly equal in size to final destination. Diddy's control of Final destination is about equal to Pictochat despite Pierces diagrams showing a notable difference in size.

 

[Orion*]

Lets say we add Pictochat to a stage list. Thats another CP option for Metaknight but who cares? Its Pictochat. Metaknight wont counter-pick it so who cares that its another option?

Unless a stage added is better than your first or second best stage it wont see use. If your best stage is not banned you will counterpick it. If your best stage is banned you will pick your second best stage.\

im not talking about japes or picto >___________>

i dont think adhd is complaining about those either. its norfair/greengreens that is ridiculous and the starter system is absurdly in mks favor.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It's obv that the people arguing for the liberal stage list also play MK.

 

[sunshade]

im not talking about japes or picto >___________>

i dont think adhd is complaining about those either. its norfair/greengreens that is ridiculous and the starter system is absurdly in mks favor.

I am comparing liberal and conservative stage lists. so stages such as Jungle Japes, Pictochat, and Pokemon Stadium 2, are relevant to this conversation.

I will agree that Norfair is better than Rainbow Cruise in select match-ups. I however do not feel that the advantage given to Metaknight is enough to warrant a removal of the stage from the stage list. I strongly believe that if something is not broken you should not ban it and Metaknight on Norfair is not broken in my book.

I am on the fence about green greens. Some times I feel fine with it, other times I feel the random elements are enough to marginalize the skill of the players involved.

As for the starter system I suggest you look at the following thread focused on the topic of a larger starter list (in this thread a starter list composing of the entire stage). I have posted in the thread so you should be able to find some of my opinions of the matter.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277492

It's obv that the people arguing for the liberal stage list also play MK.

Everyone in the Midwest plays Metaknight thats why they have more Metaknights than NY/NJ.

 

[Orion*]

you need to see me play on norfair then bro

 

[sunshade]

Go to MLG, and win every single time you counterpick. Once you are done stealing everyones lunch money I may agree.

(although I would enjoy a video for the right now)

 

[BSP]

I will agree that Norfair is better than Rainbow Cruise in select match-ups. I however do not feel that the advantage given to Metaknight is enough to warrant a removal of the stage from the stage list.

Wait, so you are ok with giving MK even more advantages? Like you said, he's already got 2 very solid CPs that skew MU's in his favor, and you just said that Norfair can be better in some instances. I think we should avoid making the best character even better.

I strongly believe that if something is not broken you should not ban it and Metaknight on Norfair is not broken in my book.

What if said something is detrimental to the health of the game? I'd say it's bannable then too, just saying.

 

[sunshade]

Wait, so you are ok with giving MK even more advantages? Like you said, he's already got 2 very solid CPs that skew MU's in his favor, and you just said that Norfair can be better in some instances. I think we should avoid making the best character even better..

I am fine with making Metaknight better. Thats right I said it.

My point stands. If its not broken dont ban it.

Now its your turn to prove the Metaknight is broken on norfair as opposed to better than normal.

What if said something is detrimental to the health of the game? I'd say it's bannable then too, just saying.

I would say who cares? If something is not broken it is not detrimental to the game.

 

[Orion*]

if it wasnt laggy, and in another country i would go

edit: DOES NOBODY REMEMBER DARK PEACH RAGING ON TEH COT4 THREAD >_________>

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

ADHD just become proban already and quit *****ing about mk

 

[BSP]

Edit- Never mind. I see what sunshade was saying from the beginning.

 

[Judo777]

I'm not. I don't think we should *possibly* help to further increase MK's dominance by adding Norfair.



Whether or not MK is broken on Norfair is not the reason why I don't think we should add it. I don't see the point in giving MK another powerful CP. Can you give me some characters who are actually helped by taking/being taken by MK to Norfair?

I agree mostly with your point, but not in this case where all it will do is make MK more powerful.

No one is given an advantage taking Mk to norfair however many characters (like sheik) get an advantage from taking 85% of the rest of the cast there.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

TV lag is worse than wifi lag. It's a very uncomfortable, fuzzy feeling and it does mess with technical stunts.

Dude, wifi with me, you'll change your mind. I have never played a game of wifi where it didn't have between 5 and 10 frames of input lag. Sometimes it even just outright drops commands, making it impossible to do things like buffer actions.

 

[ADHD]

ADHD just become proban already and quit *****ing about mk

You are perhaps the most annoying smasher out there and have consistently annoyed me without even knowing it.

EAT A **** BRACEFACE!!

 

[o-Serin-o]

Seeing ADHD and KBeef go back and forth is really making my early day. No joke.

 

[Overswarm]

You are perhaps the most annoying smasher out there and have consistently annoyed me without even knowing it.

EAT A **** BRACEFACE!!

Somenoe's beating me?

 

[Damage Points]

ADHD just become proban already and quit *****ing about mk

I thought we had finsihed all the ban MK talks. Not happening.

 

[PottyJokes]

OHhh!!! you read that!

EAT A **** BRACEFACE!!!!

 

[fkacyan]

Go to MLG, and win every single time you counterpick. Once you are done stealing everyones lunch money I may agree.

(although I would enjoy a video for the right now)

IDK man, Orion made Inui go pro-ban. That's some pretty hard evidence imo.

 

[Overswarm]

Is that punishment for punching him? Xd

 

[fkacyan]

Is that punishment for punching him? Xd

Dude that was a LION that Inui punched, get your facts straight!

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Somenoe's beating me?

you better get on that OS

I thought we had finsihed all the ban MK talks. Not happening.

i can promise you

it'll never end

 

[etecoon]

Somenoe's beating me?

kbizzle and solecalibur ***** this topic for obnoxiousness, you aren't even a minor annoyance by comparison

 

[Overswarm]

i just mean in relatoin to ADHD

 

[Dark 3nergy]

being able to multitask your annoying tendencies over 2-4 posters in a thread > one simple poster

it takes a real man to be able to troll and be smooth about it in different ways :waypastcool:

 

[Overswarm]

I do it in real life

 

[Dark 3nergy]

we all knows da internet cred means mooch more in da long run

think of it dis way, you troll them on da forum. Dem ****'m in bracket n still stay smooth bout it.

That takes one real hard *** mofo to do dat.

 

[Eddie G]

kbizzle and solecalibur ***** this topic for obnoxiousness, you aren't even a minor annoyance by comparison

Ohio loves you too, random guy.

I don't prefer to hold back just to make myself look passive and appease lurkers like you who don't even post anything worthwhile. Suck it up.