Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 So now that we know MLG hosts ridiculous smash tournaments...

[ADHD]

ADHD if you really think the lag on the tvs was so bad that it caused the upsets and caused the Metaknight mains who entered the tournament to place poorly would you be willing to tell me three people who won because of the lag?

Would you be willing to walk up to these people and to there faces say "you only won because the tvs at MLG had 1-2 frames of lag."?

Uh why wouldn't I? I'm not saying specifically them, there were ALOT more. Marth is heavily affected, so I'll place mikehaze under the get-out-of-jail-for-free card as well. Alot of people were. I think larry was as well. Atomsk, too.

HERE, I'll get you a list. ty


Conversation with Neo:

OatmealMonster12 8:01 pm
(8:01:09 PM): neo
mcabreact 8:01 pm
(8:01:14 PM): yes
OatmealMonster12 8:01 pm
(8:01:15 PM): did the lag at mlg affect you?
(8:01:16 PM): yes or no
(8:01:18 PM): gathering list for az
mcabreact 8:01 pm
(8:01:23 PM): yea on some tvs
OatmealMonster12 8:01 pm
(8:01:26 PM): kk
mcabreact 8:01 pm
(8:01:26 PM): the main station tvs
(8:01:28 PM): for the crowd to view
(8:01:32 PM): were ****ing terrible
(8:01:34 PM): jesus
(8:01:35 PM): those arebad
(8:01:39 PM): all of them aren't that great
OatmealMonster12 8:01 pm
(8:01:42 PM): i felt like
mcabreact 8:01 pm
(8:01:43 PM): but those are wifi like
OatmealMonster12 8:01 pm
(8:01:45 PM): the one or two
(8:01:51 PM): on the right edges
(8:01:54 PM): were the best
(8:01:55 PM): but still laggy
mcabreact 8:02 pm
(8:02:06 PM): mlg sucks im not attending anymore anyways
(8:02:33 PM): metaknight will be involved in every mlg first placer
(8:02:49 PM): if peopel actually stop playing ******** vs ally
(8:02:51 PM): and letting him get away
(8:02:54 PM): with his ******** snake newb ****
(8:02:58 PM): he wont get 2nd anymore
OatmealMonster12 8:02 pm
(8:02:58 PM): az stated that the reason we have so many metaknights is because of our standard 5 striking neutral system
(8:03:01 PM): so i brought up the point that
(8:03:05 PM): why is it only NJ?
(8:03:08 PM): he hasn't responded to that yet
mcabreact 8:03 pm
(8:03:09 PM): you aren't beating any MKs in an MLG ruleset
(8:03:13 PM): not the good ones at least
OatmealMonster12 8:03 pm
(8:03:22 PM): i'm really out of shape at brawl though regardless
mcabreact 8:03 pm
(8:03:29 PM): i mean even in shape
(8:03:30 PM): the stage list
(8:03:33 PM): is too favorable
(8:03:36 PM): possible delfino starter?
(8:03:38 PM): LMFAO!
(8:03:39 PM): holy ****
(8:04:06 PM): like you keep saying your out of shape, but regardless it's undeniab;e that the diddy MK mu has changed since your dominance A.
(8:04:11 PM): B. many players have improved with bananas
(8:04:23 PM): **** isn't the same, you can't be -that- out of shape with brawl, it's brawl
(8:04:28 PM): game is extremely simplistic
(8:04:38 PM): metaknight always has an answer

---


Conversation with Ally:

OatmealMonster12 7:58 pm
(7:58:59 PM): ally
(7:59:02 PM): did the lag affect you at mlg?
allyornotally 8:06 pm
(8:06:08 PM): it does a bit as i noticed, it looks like MK always powershields my **** lately its getting annoying.
OatmealMonster12 8:06 pm
(8:06:34 PM): what did you feel about the stages?
allyornotally 8:06 pm
(8:06:51 PM): LOL
(8:06:58 PM): **** MLG stages, thats al
(8:06:58 PM): l

--

Conversation with Hunger:

OatmealMonster12 8:00 pm
(8:00:01 PM): hunger
(8:00:03 PM): yes or no
(8:00:04 PM): did te lag at mlg
(8:00:05 PM): affect you?
(8:00:10 PM): gathering a list of names for evidence lol
hunger1455 8:00 pm
(8:00:24 PM): yeah. of course it did. was HD tvs...
(8:00:28 PM): what kinda dumb *** question is that

 

[AlphaZealot]

You aren't answering the question. Of course the lag had some effect. The question is: who won when they shouldn't have? Give us some actual people who will say: this guy should not have beaten me and the only reason he did was because of lag.

Neo lost to Chaz in a Marth ditto. You can't blame that on lag. Then he lost to Malcomn, who Chaz beat with Marth! Hmm...

Did lag effect Neo? Probably. Did it effect everyone else to? Probably. Did he lose because other people were better then him? Yes.

Chaz did what Neo didn't, and there can't be any lag johns because they were playing the same character.

Also, am I getting this straight: the problem isn't the stages or anything, its the 1-2 frames of lag (that somehow make MK terrible?) Cause if so, I think we found our answer to banning MK.

 

[z00ted]

TL;dr: Diddy Kongs are mad because they don't get two CPs a set instead of one.

Basically, and the fact that MK gets like three more viable counterpicks with the new stage list.

Metaknight da bess, and ADHD can't take it. Due to a quick change of rules he's realized that the character in his opinion is broken and is going to (until he learns some of these stages better) suffer from it just like every other character below below high tier has been taking the **** before MLG stage rulesets were even created.

FIND A WAY AROUND IT - Your Diddy Kong - It's Possible

Tons of other players that haven't been maininig high tier have been trying to get around it for over two years.

Suprised more Falco, and IC's mains aren't in here crying.

 

[ADHD]

You aren't answering the question. Of course the lag had some effect. The question is: who won because they shouldn't have?

Neo lost to Chaz in a freaking Marth ditto. Sorry, you can't blame that on lag. Then he lost to Malcomn, who Chaz beat with Marth! Hmm...

Did lag effect Neo? Probably. Did it effect everyone else to? Probably. Did he lose because other people were better then him? Yes.

Chaz did what Neo didn't, and there can't be any lag johns because they were playing the same character.

Not really. Everyone precieves lag differently.

I felt that mcgriddle is obviously very good, but zero suit samus is undeniably harder to fight in lag regardless of how minor it is.

Ike is FREAKIN GODLY in lag. I don't care how good san is (and I've seen him play, it's pretty impressive) but the fact is that character gains a major boost.

Luigi has an easier time landing his very low-frame KO moves.

DK is much harder to space around and zone.

etc.

Basically, and the fact that MK gets like three more viable counterpicks with the new stage list.

Metaknight da bess, and ADHD can't take it.

Kel gets 3-stocked by jason's sandbagging metaldyke. That's just wut i herd.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Not really. Everyone precieves lag differently.

False.
To an extreme degree.
The only difference is reaction time, not perceived.
Some may be used to the lag, other's may not.
Thing is, high level players are high level for a reason. They can adapt.
Stop making excuses.
Now shaddup and eat your banana.

I felt that mcgriddle is obviously very good, but zero suit samus is undeniably harder to fight in lag regardless of how minor it is.

SHE'S FRIGGIN EASY TO FIGHT!
Less QQing moar pyew pyewing.

Ike is FREAKIN GODLY in lag. I don't care how good san is (and I've seen him play, it's pretty impressive) but the fact is that character gains a major boost.

Ike is not godly in lag.
You just...sucked fighting hima t that moment.
nothing about the character changes, and EVERYONE has to deal with the lag.
Some dealt with it better than others.
That is part of why they won, they could deal, they were better skilled.
Seriously dude, you're the only one crying about it.

Luigi has an easier time landing his very low-frame KO moves.

Which all have terrible range.
here's a hint, play more conservatively.

DK is much harder to space around and zone.

*picks DDD*

DURKA DURKA!

etc.

The entire roster has issues with lag.
less QQ

Kel gets 3-stocked by jason's sandbagging metaldyke. That's just wut i herd.

Should have gone pyew pyew.

@AZ: BRILLIANT! We can use a brawl hack that creates a delay of 1-2 frames! MKis perfectly balanced now!
Oh but, ADHD still getting 6th?

 

[AllyKnight]

Its funny how most of these arguers never played wifi, rofl. They have no clue what they are talking about. THERE Is a difference between lag and no lag, Lucario ***** with Wifi-like-lag so does Ike since its much harder for you to time when to airdodge or not, you just guess and airdodge away while ike (knowing his wifi abilities) can just charge the f-smash and time it anyhow.

 

[Jack Kieser]

ITT: People are asked to do things, decide not to do so that they don't look like tools.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike is FREAKIN GODLY in lag. I don't care how good san is (and I've seen him play, it's pretty impressive) but the fact is that character gains a major boost.

I've stayed out of this until now, but this needs correcting.

Ike does much worse in lag. Our jab combos (AKA main method of racking up damage) is nerfed in speed. We can't space our aerials as perfectly, which is extremely important in various MUs, like the Olimar MU. In order for Nair to not be punished with a grab off of a PS, you need to be basically pixal perfect in spacing. You can't do that in lag. Our already bad recovery is that much harder to space perfectly in order to prevent getting gimped in aether.

What do we get in exchange? 2 frames more for a move to hit. Sorry, but 2 frames isn't going to make a difference for something like Fsmash, Usmash, Ftilt, Utilt, ect. Saying Ike gains in a laggy environment is quite frankly ignorant, and stupid, let alone saying he "Godly". What a joke. Overall, he loses, and the more lag there is, the more he loses.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Its funny how most of these arguers never played wifi, rofl. They have no clue what they are talking about. THERE Is a difference between lag and no lag, Lucario ***** with Wifi-like-lag so does Ike since its much harder for you to time when to airdodge or not, you just guess and airdodge away while ike (knowing his wifi abilities) can just charge the f-smash and time it anyhow.

Wifi lag does indeed make Ike so stupid to use.
you see it coming, you try to dodge, ohhhh now, sorry your input arrived too late to matter.

 

[san.]

Lol @ people talking about a character they have NO CLUE about.

edit: CAPs for emphasis.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I think a problem with this whole Diddy/Falco/ICs starter thing is that there are no set neutral stages, and by neutral stages I mean stages where no characters gets a notable benefit solely because of the stage.

It sounds like people are assuming that only CP stages should give characters benefits, and there should be neutrals that don't do that. The problem is that the neutral stages widely agreed upon as a community do give good benefits to a few characters simply because they do well on that stage design. Whereas some characters, like Luigi, have their best CPs as Halberd and Brinstar, others, like Diddy, have their best CPs as FD/BF/SV.

The issue is if you see this as a problem or not. inb4 character bias, but I honestly don't. When arguing for the 9 stage starter list it almost sounds like there are perfect neutrals that should happen, but really it has the same problem as a 7 stage starter has—it's going to give whichever character has overall best stages on the list the benefit. For example, on a 9 stage starter, most people are going to want to strike FD, PS1, Castle Siege, and Delfino against Dedede in a similar manner that most people would want to strike FD, BF, and SV against Diddy on a 7 stage starter.

So not that I think a 9 stage starter list is bad, but I don't think it's better than a 7 stage starter list (assuming the other 2 stages are Lylat and Halberd). I agree that both are probably better than a 5 stage starter, but I have no problems with that either because I don't see the whole neutrals-as-a-CP-thing a problem. The only thing a 9 over a 7 stage starter seems to do is make Diddy, Falco, and ICs worse, and because no one's mentioned any specific characters, I don't know who gets better from a 9 stage starter.

I also agree though that if there was a 9 stage starter list, Frigate should replace Delfino.

About the lag, I don't know how many frames there were, but you can't deny that it doesn't cause some problems.

1. You have to condition yourself (and in this tournament setting, quickly) to react slightly earlier for everything. If you're used to punishing a spotdodge with a non-lingering move, you have to input it some frames before you normally would otherwise the spotdodge goes unpunished.
2. You can't react to as many things. Bad example warning: you're in a position where MK just landed and you think he'll D-smash you, normally you can react, shield, and powershield, but with delay you miss maybe 5-6 frames of reaction time, which is a lot. Maybe you have really good reaction time and can punish a bad ZSS grab on reaction; can't do that with the delay. This also gives some characters slightly more benefits than others.

Everyone's spacing is messed up by lag, and most of the time spacing matters or you mess up. That's universal. Most of what makes some characters better in lag is the things they can do and get away with because the opponent can't react to it.

i didn't even go to MLG though so I dunno lol. Didn't someone offer suggestions on how to eliminate the lag while still having the monitors, or something? Why aren't more people doing that instead of complaining about something they can't fix by complaining?

 

[sunshade]

ADHD those text logs did not have anything to do with what I asked.

I asked for you to say 3 people who won because of the lag. Three people who you would be willing to walk up to face to face and say "your victory at mlg was due to the 1-2 frames of lag".

Your conversations of no substance with people and their unbacked personal opinions on stages is irreverent.

Now man up and give us some names. If the lag caused the upsets say whose upset was a result of lag and not skill.

 

[Allied]

you are all gay

 

[AllyKnight]

I think what ADHD meant is that lag did affect some people who are good at timing and punish stuff without lag, and those players he asked, was an exemple of people who could probably lose due to lag to a character you need to time shielding.

Lets start a Wifi Ike vs Offline Ike war.

 

[PK-ow!]

Neo lost to Chaz in a Marth ditto. You can't blame that on lag. Then he lost to Malcomn, who Chaz beat with Marth! Hmm...

Did lag effect Neo? Probably. Did it effect everyone else to? Probably. Did he lose because other people were better then him? Yes.

Chaz did what Neo didn't, and there can't be any lag johns because they were playing the same character.

This argument purports to run no matter what the lag was.

Even if it was 10 or 15 frames. Or a second. That's silly.

Since it does, it must be fallacious. Or, maybe you accept that conclusion in that situation. If so, please explain to me how I'm crazy.


Being a ditto isn't special. Someone can blame an upset on lag if they use my reasoning (which I didn't use to claim any upsets happened, though; as, Overswarm challenged, I am not one to have actually looked into what happened).


Is the question whether MLG created character upsets (things that don't agree with the tier v4 theory), or ... upsets (was anti- or un- competitive)? That might be why I'm confused. But I'm just looking at what people are saying.

You aren't answering the question. Of course the lag had some effect. The question is: who won when they shouldn't have? Give us some actual people who will say: this guy should not have beaten me and the only reason he did was because of lag.

Will this person get credit for saying this? They won't just get shut down and called scrub for making that accusation?
This is pretty lose-lose.

No, you need someone who won who will say they shouldn't have.

Consider any particular instance of an alleged upset. NickRiddle (v ... anyone you would care to name). If Nick really was more skilled, he can't admit to this (since it's false). If he isn't more skilled, then he is below a certain point of skill, and I would say this would force a person to interpret any uncertainty from him to answer the question as honest uncertainty. Since part of not being skilled means not knowing.
In short, you get nowhere this way, either.



Also, I hope it is established that it would only take one case to settle this. For if a hundred skilled people beat less skilled opponents, but in one case a skilled player lost to a less skilled player, then the effect is seen. It's there. It's magnitude may just be masked by the good fortune of the other N many cases where their skill was greater by enough to beat the causal strength of the lag. But with that observed single case, it can overpower skill. And that's what has to be maintained cannot happen to claim a competitive environment.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think what ADHD meant is that lag did affect some people who are good at timing and punish stuff without lag, and those players he asked, was an exemple of people who could probably lose due to lag to a character you need to time shielding.

Lets start a Wifi Ike vs Offline Ike war.

Jab~>Fsmash=true combo

 

[ADHD]

False.
To an extreme degree.
The only difference is reaction time, not perceived.
Some may be used to the lag, other's may not.
Thing is, high level players are high level for a reason. They can adapt.
Stop making excuses.
Now shaddup and eat your banana.

EVERYONE has to deal with the lag.
Some dealt with it better than others.
That is part of why they won, they could deal, they were better skilled.
Seriously dude, you're the only one crying about it.

Wait what? I'm not making personal excuses, *******. XD

Anyway, if you feel the better skilled person will always win under lag conditions than you don't know anything about high level play.. but I guess that's why you play sonic so I shall forgive you. Everything must be precise.

Which all have terrible range.
here's a hint, play more conservatively.

Here's a hint, show up to tournaments.

*picks DDD*

Plz c ook vs mikehaze --->

DURKA DURKA!

What?

The entire roster has issues with lag.
less QQ

It should be apparant by now to you, wifi'er, that multiple characters recieve benefits as well as some others are hindered.

@AZ: BRILLIANT! We can use a brawl hack that creates a delay of 1-2 frames! MKis perfectly balanced now!
Oh but, ADHD still getting 6th?

I've seen you once in my entire life irl, and you play sonic. I just can't take you seriously or anything you say to some degree of credibility.

you are all gay

I missed a post.. Allied I want you.

 

[ADHD]

ADHD those text logs did not have anything to do with what I asked.

I asked for you to say 3 people who won because of the lag. Three people who you would be willing to walk up to face to face and say "your victory at mlg was due to the 1-2 frames of lag".

Your conversations of no substance with people and their unbacked personal opinions on stages is irreverent.

Now man up and give us some names. If the lag caused the upsets say whose upset was a result of lag and not skill.

Dude what are you talking about?

I'm ADHD, whatever I say won't be taken to full-heartedly and they'll just state I'm a cocky little kid.

I believe mcgriddle, san, and arty would not place as high without the TV lag.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Honestly, an Ike player benefitting from lag is a completely legitimate statement.

 

[san.]

There would be no point trying to defend myself against people who are ignorant right off the bat.

 

[ADHD]

There would be no point trying to defend myself against people who are ignorant right off the bat.

I know you're good, I've watched you play chu. I am just really doubting the fact you got 11th...

 

[Dark 3nergy]

There would be no point trying to defend myself against people who are ignorant right off the bat.

i'll never doubt your abilities san. I knew before whobo2 and before mlg, i always knew you were a champ ike

 

[san.]

That post wasn't really to you, though (I try to be nice to everyone, tbqh). Some people jumping to conclusions off of 0 logic/sense, just confuses me. I don't feel like getting into specifics, because plenty other characters also have problems, given certain prerequisites. If someone can name 2 successful Ikes through online, then I'll be like "okay," yet people jumped to conclusions and hopped on the bandwagon purely due to speculation.

Believe me, I felt like I was playing like crap most of my MLG matches. I even had to test my powershielding with PikaPika one time because of what was going on. I felt a lot of my troubles early on with powershielding, teching, and buffering, made it harder for me to win. I complained a lot more than at Orlando, oddly.

I'm usually pretty consistent with my wins at large tourneys. MLG Orlando was my worst placing in tournament (partly due to having to play a really good player early in bracket).

 

[Deleted member]

To say that the lag didn't affect people is ridiculous. If someone even thinks that the lag is affecting them, then they've already been psychologically affected by the lag. Plus there's the fact that well.... it affects people. I find that seeing what's actually happening in the game is a key part of my strategy.

Also, it's unfair to ask for specific matches in which the lag caused the loss, because it's hard to differentiate between an actual upset and a win because of lag. However, if there were more upsets in this tournament than in other tournaments (which from what I hear is the case), then that is reason to suspect that there was some kind of other factor (lag) which had something to do with it.

 

[Justblaze647]

Just my two cents...

ADHD has valid points, people are just being to obstinate to listen.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wait what? I'm not making personal excuses, *******. XD

No you're right.
you're just ****ing on Nick Riddle's wins.
Sorry Wyatt.
You used to be really likable and rather down to earth.
Winning really changes people.

Anyway, if you feel the better skilled person will always win under lag conditions than you don't know anything about high level play.

I am sorry but now you're just trolling.
Both player's had to deal with the exact same conditions.
Truth be told,t he only characters that were truly hindered by the lag, that were trulyhaving their metagame hampered, were the IC's.
Everyone else?
No johns.

Its why you got 6th.
M2K said it as well.
You just aren't up to snuff.
Get better.
Now eat your potassium.

but I guess that's why you play sonic so I shall forgive you. Everything must be precise.
Here's a hint, show up to tournaments.

I actually play Marth and by the way, I only stopped attending tournaments during Spring.
See? This is why you should just shut up and eat the bananas.
If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.

That's why its M2K that won in the end and not you.
Less johning, more pyew pyew.
You aren't going to have anyone sympathizing with you, especially with the disrespect you show everyone.

Plz c ook vs mikehaze --->

The bomb was there for 7 seconds.
Know why he lost?
It is because he made an error
By all means he should have won.
He could have easily done a pivot grab on DK and contined the match.
Hell if he DI'ed correctly he would not have died.

For a high level player, you're very ignorant of high level play.
DURKA DURKA! I CAN BE A JERK TOO!

What?

Durka durka is a reference to a show.
Basically, the antagonist says something extremely stupid.
Protagonist makes a witty reply and follows it up with durka durka.
Why?
It is because it is much easier to be rude, disrespectful, and flat out ignorant towards your fellow players.
The very fact that you do such a thing towards myself, and completely ignore everything Kbizz and Sun said is only an illustration of that ignorance.
Hence, the durka durka.

It's also rather catchy.

It should be apparant by now to you, wifi'er, that multiple characters recieve benefits as well as some others are hindered.

I don't play Wifi.
Your presumption of myself is now void and shows your ignorance at the base level.
You've fallen dude.

I've seen you once in my entire life irl, and you play sonic. I just can't take you seriously or anything you say to some degree of credibility.

Actually no, you've seen me, 15 times.
I just didn't want to bother with someone who is an idiot after they've gotten a taste of winning.
By the way, while my secondary is Sonic.
My main is Marth.

Just go back to playing with the sticks dude.
Leave things that influence your game, to people who aren't thinking only of themselves.
You only got yourself to blame, and that goes for everyone else.
If you lost, you just used the wrong character, chose the wrong stage, had the wrong attitude, or wasn't skilled enough.

Don't try to take away the wins that high level players like Nick Riddle gained.
You sure as hell deserved your placement, just as much as Nick Riddle deserved his own.

Team Big Boss didn't make excuses whenever they lost. They got better.
Daigo didn't make excuses for when he lost. He got better.
Many, many professional teams, players did not make a topic simply to moan about a stage list that did not support their character. (Yankees dont count XD)

 

[ShadowLink84]

@Justblaze: oh by no means is anyone saying his points aren't valid. It is very true that the stagelist can be seen as favorable to MK. It is also very true that the lag did affect gameplay. The thing is, he is trying to say "this is the reason for 80+ upsets".
Which also includes Nickriddle's win, OOK's win and many other's.
That's not making a valid point, that's a veiled insult.

 

[Krystedez]

To be fair, MLG columbus's TV's werent as bad as my HD TV which I practiced on for quite a bit before MLG started.

So, in my opinion, if a high level player really wants to win, they'll play on someone's HDTV until the HD TV's are exchanged for something more...up to speed, if you will.

In my opinion, I still think matches would be a lot more fluid in lagless televisions. That's why there should be a pursuit in getting them. I can no longer play on wifi because I play on a laggy HD TV, the lag times 2 is just really horrid to deal with, especially as a wario and pit user.

I think we should focus more on how lagless televisions would help the experience, rather than who wins what because of this or that.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

if there isnt already a thread, someone should make a thread devoted to the TV issue. This thread mostly about stage selection and whose characters it effects

 

[Ussi]

Seriously, Ike can't live without powershielding projectiles and jab cancels

 

[Deleted member]

It seems that telling Diddy mains to eat bananas is a common joke. Is this true?

Oooh, I thought of a really good one. Why are MK players ok with lag? Because bats use sonar.

 

[ShadowLink84]

if there isnt already a thread, someone should make a thread devoted to the TV issue. This thread mostly about stage selection and whose characters it effects

I am not entirely sure but I believe there was a thread made in regards to the T.V. issue.
I would post information in regards to it but I am not entirely sure on what to use.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

problem is SL, its kinda difficult to prove the lag exists over the internet. You cant necessarily use recording equipment....we just know through trail and error that HDTVs + wii = screen lag since the Wii doesnt fully support it


thats kinda the tricky part that piece of the debate got stuck on....

Since i highly doubt there will be a true end all solution to the problem. Players attending MLGs should be advised to practice on HDTVs offline to cope with the changes

 

[ShadowLink84]

It seems that telling Diddy mains to eat bananas is a common joke. Is this true?

Nope. It's actually cause of the avatar funny enough.
XD

Oooh, I

thought of a really good one. Why are MK players ok with lag? Because bats use sonar.

THIS THIS THIS!

problem is SL, its kinda difficult to prove the lag exists over the internet. You cant necessarily use recording equipment....we just know through trail and error that HDTVs + wii = screen lag since the Wii doesnt support it

That depends on how you would define lag.
For example there is image lag, which is what we see with HDTV's.
Your input is being read just fine, in fact what the game sees is just fine.
The image being presented, however, is behind what has already occurred.

The issue with wifi, it isn't an issue of image delayed.
It is an issue purely based upon packets being given to you.
In fact, the stuttering you see is a result of packets being dropped along the way.

There is no need to try and prove lag exists over the internet.
If we are talking about image delay, that isn't wifi lag.
There is image delay with an HDTV.
So that would most definitely compound on the packet problem

With an old SDTV (mine is about 6 years old and running strong, I'll have to use a LCD with VGA when it dies. hell i should get one I suppose since my mom steals it to watch cable).

 

[Judo777]

I have a question. Adhd placed 6th at the first MLG event which isn't normal. Who's to say that the last MLG event wasn't skewed results and this last 1 was accurate. Maybe biglou shouldnt have placed as high and Nick Riddle shouldn't have placed so low. M2K and Ally appear to be the only consistent ones so maybe the rest were skewed the first tourney?

I'm not saying this is the case but i don't see how u can say that 1 tourney's results are abnormal when there hasn't been a national level tourney with this must region diversity in a while?

 

[Justblaze647]

@Justblaze: oh by no means is anyone saying his points aren't valid. It is very true that the stagelist can be seen as favorable to MK. It is also very true that the lag did affect gameplay. The thing is, he is trying to say "this is the reason for 80+ upsets".
Which also includes Nickriddle's win, OOK's win and many other's.
That's not making a valid point, that's a veiled insult.

Certain things he alludes to I agree with emphatically, such as Zamus being harder to fight against under laggy circumstances, and DK being more difficult to zone and space against.

Perhaps he was being insulting, by belittling the accomplishments of others, but that may be because of the frustration he feels. I can't get mad at the dude, and ignore his points because he deals with human emotion, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Nope. It's actually cause of the avatar funny enough.
XD

Oooh, I

THIS THIS THIS!



That depends on how you would define lag.
For example there is image lag, which is what we see with HDTV's.
Your input is being read just fine, in fact what the game sees is just fine.
The image being presented, however, is behind what has already occurred.

The issue with wifi, it isn't an issue of image delayed.
It is an issue purely based upon packets being given to you.
In fact, the stuttering you see is a result of packets being dropped along the way.

There is no need to try and prove lag exists over the internet.
If we are talking about image delay, that isn't wifi lag.
There is image delay with an HDTV.
So that would most definitely compound on the packet problem

With an old SDTV (mine is about 6 years old and running strong, I'll have to use a LCD with VGA when it dies. hell i should get one I suppose since my mom steals it to watch cable).

Thing is wifi lag is highly inconsistent, where as HDTV it is continuous and consistent throughout. Its offline. Hence it should be easier to adjust ones reflexes. Hell i did MLG and i practiced on a standard TV before and after the event and i never really noticed the HDTV lag untill i brought my HDTV to showdown and practiced CG on DDD on that HDTV, then hustled over to a standard where i saw the timing on key, where as the HDTV the CG kept getting interrupted similar as to how it does on Wifi. When i do think about me playing on my HDTV, it ..did kinda feel..offish. It felt similar to wifi, but not really. I definitely felt more secure when i played on the standard TV.

I know what you mean; a good ex; my parents were watching Two and a half men while i was walking up stairs this past week. The HDTV was going, and one guy spoke a line, and by the time i reached the door to the bathroom upstairs the same guy spoke the same line in their bedroom on the standard TV. They were both watching the same channel[not an HD channel iirc]

 

[ADHD]

WHAT IS THIS???

i don't even.

 

[AvaricePanda]

wait wat

so people ask ADHD to name specific people who placed higher because of the lag, he makes various points about how the lag affected people and got them off their game, people tell him again to name specific people because that's not good enough, he names specific people, you say he's a bad person because he named specific people

. . .

Also, to say that ICs are the only characters affected by lag seems ignorant. I'm assuming you mean their infinite CGs, and really all they have to do is input the buttons slightly earlier than the visual cues. Technically it is the same timing, you just can't rely on what you're seeing on the screen or you adjust yourself to be slightly earlier, and back in early 09 I heard stories of Lain being able to infinite people with his eyes closed.

Lag affects other things greater, like anything that has to do with reaction time, such as punishing certain moves or spacing.

 

[ruin`]

I'd like to add a little support for ADHD's cause which i'm not 100% sure of quite yet.

Watch mikehaze (ddd) vs OOK (Donky kong) on green greens. He gets a couple of grabs and fails to input dash + grab input. I for one know that d3's not a difficult character to control.

Failing to accomplish this simple two button combo* may be factual evidence how detrimental the lag effects players. Granted, I know mikehaze's d3 is garbage. However, this game is super easy to play and dash grab is not a difficult input especially for someone like mike haze. Again, the lag on that tv may have influenced certain matchups throughout the tournament.