Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Nic64]

it wasn't known until very recently that bowser has an infinite chain grab on MK, and bowser is unviable for other reasons as well...I still wouldn't call him an MK counter anyway either...but he can hold his own anyway.

 

[P. O. F.]

Meta Knight should be not be getting grabbed by bowser. LOL

Also:

Funny you should ask. During the early days of Brawl, my crusade for the MK ban was well known on the boards to say the least LOL I pretty much used every chance to make a post about his broken nature, lack of bad matchups, and insane camping abilities on counter-picks.

But then I realized that I had no greater feeling playing Brawl than when I defeated an MK in tourny. It was like I did the impossible. Shortly after, I quit Brawl because of the match I had with Hat when he went ROB and spammed/camped his way to victory without any previous use of the character.

These last few months (quit back in November) I've attended very few Brawl tournies, mostly just the big ones like COT4 and Apex. In this time I've come to realize that MK is my second favorite matchup (Snake's my first). This is mostly due to the fact that during the first 6 or so months of Brawl, MD/VA was renowned for it's unreal amount of MK usage. We had Forte, who practically invented MK, here and people learned how to use him watching him play. We also had Plank, Korn, even Azen at times, and a few other notable players who I can't remember at the moment who mained him.

Needless to say, I became good at the matchup. Hell, I even got used to it. It became the standard at each tourny every week for me to face at least two MKs in my bracket. Not much I could do, so I eventually stopped complaining and just played against the **** character. Eventually NL defeated MK with Diddy at Esticle (and then later at a C3) and it showed me that MK was indeed beatable.

Currently, I have very mixed feelings on this. Had you asked me last week I would have said I'm indifferent and could care less if he's banned or not. But I saw something at Apex that made me think twice. The people that were watching will remember this, one of the matches on the live stream early on was Dojo vs Jash. Now, Jash is certainly the best TL in the world. He beat Boss' Luigi in a mm (or was it tourny? they did both and I only saw one of them). In that match vs Boss I saw some incredible things that I didn't even know TL could do. I was very impressed with how he played, so much so that I want to pick up TL for fun now! A while after this match, I witnessed him play Dojo, and my heart broke.

Basically, Dojo nearly three stocked him both games and this is how he did it: got him to the edge, knocked him off the stage, daired him twice and Jash couldn't make it back. He did it all three stock for both games at mid percent. I felt horrible for Jash, you could tell by the look on his face that he had given up once Dojo got him offstage. It was the simplest, stupidest, least skillful, most pathetic thing I've seen an MK do to a character.

It doesn't even matter that Dojo is the 2nd best MK, when all you have to do is hit down on the c stick twice. I know that Dojo plays Santi a lot and has plenty of TL experience, but almost everyone I've talked to says Jash is better than Santi and he was HELPLESS against Dojo. It was disgusting.

That's not to say I entirely agree with banning MK. I'm still 50/50 on it, but that match at Apex has made me lean more towards a pro ban opinion. But I will say MK has no matchups that aren't in his favor or even. He goes even with Snake, Diddy, ICs, and maybe a few others. There isn't a single character who has more than a 50:50 matchup with him, which is pretty stupid. I was really happy that Ally won Apex, just cause I like watching other characters beat an MK.

amazing post.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

it wasn't known until very recently that bowser has an infinite chain grab on MK, and bowser is unviable for other reasons as well...I still wouldn't call him an MK counter anyway either...but he can hold his own anyway.

Um no this was known for a couple of months now since 08 actually.

edit: nvm

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

it Wasn't Known Until Very Recently That Bowser Has An Infinite Chain Grab On Mk, And Bowser Is Unviable For Other Reasons As Well...i Still Wouldn't Call Him An Mk Counter Anyway Either...but He Can Hold His Own Anyway.

Link Nao Kthx

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Link Nao Kthx

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233550

It's not an actual infinite because it requires a ground break and people can time an air break instead.

 

[OmniOstrich]

I think this is the tenth time, if not more, that someone has asked about Fiction.

Someone confirm it for the love of your god or a lack of one.

Fiction voted No on this poll. Click on the numbers next to the polls and it shows you a list of everyone that voted, anyone can see it...

 

[hotgarbage]

Fiction voted No on this poll. Click on the numbers next to the polls and it shows you a list of everyone that voted, anyone can see it...

The whole Fiction deal comes from this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7268463&postcount=3352

make of it what you will.

 

[pure_awesome]

I was thinking about this the other day. It's kind of complicated, so I'm going to keep it simple. This is the main reason why I voted No on the poll.

I've always thought of Smash in terms of match-ups, as I'm sure most people do. I also took several Philosophy courses (which was a mistake) when I went to college which, if nothing else, has furthered my already established belief that the world is, for the most part, based on our perception of it. People perceive their worlds and as such, live in different worlds that are all based around one central "real" world. In short, everything is relative. I've adopted this method of thinking to Smash, and it's surprisingly easy to do so. Essentially, it would break down to this:

Each character in the game has it's own "tier list." I don't like using tier lists in the example but they're popular and people understand them, so tier list it is. A character's tier list is representative of it's match-ups. Characters with 80-20s against you are top tier, the reverse is bottom tier. This can also be seen as a tier list representing who is the best character in the game, relevant to a specific character. From Donkey Kong's perspective, King DDD is the best character in the game. The game is made up of 37 different tier lists, each relative to specific character.

This works when applied to Smash simply because of how we play the game. Our 1 on 1, competitive style of play means that my character's personal tier list, as well as my opponent's character's personal tier list, matter much more than the official SBR tier list. Metaknight is ranked SS tier because of his numerous advantages. But when I'm playing him as Falco, it's irrelevant to me where he is on the SBR tier list because it's irrelevant to me what his match-up with Peach is like, or his match-up with ROB is like, or his match-up with anyone else that isn't Falco is like. Where Metaknight ranks in an overall sense is irrelevant to our game because we never play Metaknight versus Overall matches, only Metaknight versus [character], in this case Falco. And to Falco, Metaknight is not the best character in the game.

When you look at it this way, you'll see that not that often is Metaknight actually the best character in the game. He probably barely edges out King DDD, if at all. Depending on whose perception you're looking from, a wide range of characters are the best character in the game. Ice Climbers, Falco, Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus.

In short, how can we justify banning Metaknight when, relatively speaking, he isn't even the best character in the game a significant amount of the time?

I hope this was clear enough. I had a hard time putting the concept to words.

 

[thumbswayup]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

This might help.
Or it might not.

But if it helps you...

Fiction was Against the Ban.

Up until the last tournament.

And how he changed his mind, due to what happened. Not even planking, just sheer exploitation of MK.
​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

Wow @ the Naruto song quotes on the top and bottom of this post.

 

[CRASHiC]

I was thinking about this the other day. It's kind of complicated, so I'm going to keep it simple. This is the main reason why I voted No on the poll.

I've always thought of Smash in terms of match-ups, as I'm sure most people do. I also took several Philosophy courses (which was a mistake) when I went to college which, if nothing else, has furthered my already established belief that the world is, for the most part, based on our perception of it. People perceive their worlds and as such, live in different worlds that are all based around one central "real" world. In short, everything is relative. I've adopted this method of thinking to Smash, and it's surprisingly easy to do so. Essentially, it would break down to this:

Each character in the game has it's own "tier list." I don't like using tier lists in the example but they're popular and people understand them, so tier list it is. A character's tier list is representative of it's match-ups. Characters with 80-20s against you are top tier, the reverse is bottom tier. This can also be seen as a tier list representing who is the best character in the game, relevant to a specific character. From Donkey Kong's perspective, King DDD is the best character in the game. The game is made up of 37 different tier lists, each relative to specific character.

This works when applied to Smash simply because of how we play the game. Our 1 on 1, competitive style of play means that my character's personal tier list, as well as my opponent's character's personal tier list, matter much more than the official SBR tier list. Metaknight is ranked SS tier because of his numerous advantages. But when I'm playing him as Falco, it's irrelevant to me where he is on the SBR tier list because it's irrelevant to me what his match-up with Peach is like, or his match-up with ROB is like, or his match-up with anyone else that isn't Falco is like. Where Metaknight ranks in an overall sense is irrelevant to our game because we never play Metaknight versus Overall matches, only Metaknight versus [character], in this case Falco. And to Falco, Metaknight is not the best character in the game.

When you look at it this way, you'll see that not that often is Metaknight actually the best character in the game. He probably barely edges out King DDD, if at all. Depending on whose perception you're looking from, a wide range of characters are the best character in the game. Ice Climbers, Falco, Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus.

In short, how can we justify banning Metaknight when, relatively speaking, he isn't even the best character in the game a significant amount of the time?

I hope this was clear enough. I had a hard time putting the concept to words.

Why regret the point of taking philosophy when you clearly benefited from it?

 

[L666]

I was thinking about this the other day. It's kind of complicated, so I'm going to keep it simple. This is the main reason why I voted No on the poll.

I've always thought of Smash in terms of match-ups, as I'm sure most people do. I also took several Philosophy courses (which was a mistake) when I went to college which, if nothing else, has furthered my already established belief that the world is, for the most part, based on our perception of it. People perceive their worlds and as such, live in different worlds that are all based around one central "real" world. In short, everything is relative. I've adopted this method of thinking to Smash, and it's surprisingly easy to do so. Essentially, it would break down to this:

Each character in the game has it's own "tier list." I don't like using tier lists in the example but they're popular and people understand them, so tier list it is. A character's tier list is representative of it's match-ups. Characters with 80-20s against you are top tier, the reverse is bottom tier. This can also be seen as a tier list representing who is the best character in the game, relevant to a specific character. From Donkey Kong's perspective, King DDD is the best character in the game. The game is made up of 37 different tier lists, each relative to specific character.

This works when applied to Smash simply because of how we play the game. Our 1 on 1, competitive style of play means that my character's personal tier list, as well as my opponent's character's personal tier list, matter much more than the official SBR tier list. Metaknight is ranked SS tier because of his numerous advantages. But when I'm playing him as Falco, it's irrelevant to me where he is on the SBR tier list because it's irrelevant to me what his match-up with Peach is like, or his match-up with ROB is like, or his match-up with anyone else that isn't Falco is like. Where Metaknight ranks in an overall sense is irrelevant to our game because we never play Metaknight versus Overall matches, only Metaknight versus [character], in this case Falco. And to Falco, Metaknight is not the best character in the game.

When you look at it this way, you'll see that not that often is Metaknight actually the best character in the game. He probably barely edges out King DDD, if at all. Depending on whose perception you're looking from, a wide range of characters are the best character in the game. Ice Climbers, Falco, Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus.

In short, how can we justify banning Metaknight when, relatively speaking, he isn't even the best character in the game a significant amount of the time?

I hope this was clear enough. I had a hard time putting the concept to words.

Yeah, no. MK is the best character in the game.
You're basically pointing out that MK isn't the worst matchup for most characters, something that has already been brought up.

 

[CRASHiC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBrep1q9Rc
DDDs down smash beasts Metaknight's down smash.

 

[iRJi]

Yeah, no. MK is the best character in the game.
You're basically pointing out that MK isn't the worst matchup for most characters, something that has already been brought up.

Also point out the fact that although he isn't the worse match up for most characters, he has a positive match up on all the characters in the game.

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBrep1q9Rc
DDDs down smash beasts Metaknight's down smash.

I lol'd. Start up and cool down time on D3's Dsmash?

 

[Yuna]

horizontal KO ability

Unless you suck at DI or reaction, MK doesn't KO that well horizontally.

No, but the fact that he has NO BAD MATCH UPS and is amazing on every stage is ********.

Also, i've said this numerous times as well but IF A PLAYER beats a meta knight its almost always close and down to the last stock. Every character in the game has to be defensive against him. It's stupid. The whole point of Brawl and fighting games in general is for a form of balance and MK disrupts this.

He has even match-ups, so he doesn't "rule" in all matcdh-ups. He's also not amazing on every stage, that's a lie.

Also, at the top of the metagame, almost all games are last stock! If you keep getting 2-stocked, you're obviously out of your league. Finally, everyone has to be defensive against MK, thus ban? Ban IC's now, please?

 

[nevershootme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBrep1q9Rc
DDDs down smash beasts Metaknight's down smash.

his hitbox was extented out not hitting ddd, therefore ddd's d-smash hit his extended hitbox goes flying. noticed the hammer barely touching his body

it was an f-smash, not d-smash. you missed!

 

[kingcobra9]

that's looking good

 

[demonictoonlink]

So... Bowser infinite... How's that working out? Can a ground break actually be forced?

 

[Yuna]

You know what, were getting terribly off topic here guys. I believe that you cannot understand Yuna simply because you never played competitivly online, but I think that we should just move onto the metaknight ban topic more.

6 frames of lag changes the game up a lot. This is undeniable. Thus, playing only Online will make you learn an entirely different game. This is undeniable fact.

He's also not "fair" to allow if the goal is to create an even playing field where you always have at least two ways to do anything.

You always do have the choice of two ways of doing things. It's just that MK is the "safest" choice while several other characters are better choices against most characters (i.e. they have better match-ups overall than MK, but they still have some barely disadvantageous match-ups).

It's Yun vs. Chun all over again.

Also, this isn't La La Land. Not everything is "fair". The playing field isn't always even. Go play another game which is less imbalanced if you want an even playing field where all or most characters are viable.

Most people couldn't care less about the second, so since the first is true will never be convinced MK needs banning.

A final option, but one that will only pass if time changes things (So there's nothing to discuss about it currently), is that for some reason people would care if MK were played too much -- why, I don't quite understand, as he'd still not be "broken enough to be banned" even if 90% of tournament competitors played as him, but apparently that would make many willing to support a ban of MK (Since a big tournament with a relatively low % of MKs has been enough to convince people he doesn't need a ban). If the problem isn't big and obvious why fix it, I guess.

Idiots would care if MK is played too much, even though you can still play as several other characters and win. I thought I'd made that clear.

 

[thumbswayup]

Unless you suck at DI or reaction, MK doesn't KO that well horizontally.


He has even match-ups, so he doesn't "rule" in all matcdh-ups. He's also not amazing on every stage, that's a lie.

Also, at the top of the metagame, almost all games are last stock! If you keep getting 2-stocked, you're obviously out of your league. Finally, everyone has to be defensive against MK, thus ban? Ban IC's now, please?

What stage is he not amazing on?

 

[pure_awesome]

Careful with the word "amazing" there, thumbs.

I could argue the only stages he is "amazing" on are Cruise, Norfair, and Mansion. Heck, I could argue he isn't even "amazing" on those stages.

Should probably use a more definitive word.

 

[Yuna]

What stage is he not amazing on?

Low Ceiling stages. Because of his lightness, the sum of all things means a loss of "amazingness" for him. Especially against characters like Snake.

Also, this:

Careful with the word "amazing" there, thumbs.

I could argue the only stages he is "amazing" on are Cruise, Norfair, and Mansion. Heck, I could argue he isn't even "amazing" on those stages.

Should probably use a more definitive word.

 

[thumbswayup]

Careful with the word "amazing" there, thumbs.

I could argue the only stages he is "amazing" on are Cruise, Norfair, and Mansion. Heck, I could argue he isn't even "amazing" on those stages.

Should probably use a more definitive word.

He used the word, I was quoting him lol

Low Ceiling stages. Because of his lightness, the sum of all things means a loss of "amazingness" for him. Especially against characters like Snake.

Also, this:

Yes, but his up b kills up much easier. Plus, I'm pretty sure Delfino is M2k's favorite counter-pick. Doesn't one of the levels of that stage have one of the lowest ceilings? Actually, that stage has a low ceiling in general.

 

[iRJi]

Low Ceiling stages. Because of his lightness, the sum of all things means a loss of "amazingness" for him. Especially against characters like Snake.

Mind posting the stages, the actual stages, he does not do good on? because as far as I know the only 2 stages with a really low ceiling is Halberg and Brinstar (not counting Cornaria), and he does preform better then most on those stages.

 

[Gea]

Metaknight's momentum cancelling is pretty **** good. He lives for longer than many other characters of similar weight do. Also, he can gimp the cast better than anyone else. In fact, he is the only character that can consistently gimp safely and reliably.

I'm not pro/con ban, but I rarely see these point brought up. I mean, we know how good Meta is, so that shouldn't really be the argument, right?

 

[iRJi]

Metaknight's momentum cancelling is pretty **** good. He lives for longer than many other characters of similar weight do. Also, he can gimp the cast better than anyone else. In fact, he is the only character that can consistently gimp safely and reliably.

I'm not pro/con ban, but I rarely see these point brought up. I mean, we know how good Meta is, so that shouldn't really be the argument, right?

I love you right now. (No Homo)

 

[pure_awesome]

Metaknight isn't that great on Mario Kart.

Unban Mario Kart! (Except for DDD!)

(And possibly Bowser!)

 

[Red Arremer]

Lol so bower is metaknights worst match up?

Since he's possibly a disadvantageous matchup for Meta Knight, yes, I'd say Bowser is his hardest matchup. Of course, 60:40 is still winnable.

Or are you going to say that Snake is 70-30 MK's disadvantage now?

???
Where did you get that? Don't put words in my mouth here. That's as blatant as it could be.

If bowser is so good against the character that once again has gone above the S rank in tournament placings why does he only have 4 tournament placings in the top 8? And not even a single win...

Bowser vs. Meta Knight already was considered even-ish by several people, however there's many reasons why noone plays Bowser.

• Common misconceptions (i.e. Bowser being "slow")
• Dedede's Infinite
• Bowser's Melee self still lingering around
• Bowser being a mediocre character (still)
• People not informing themselves about Bowser yet still shooting out claims that are downright wrong

and many more things. You can find at least 3 essays on Bowser's unpopularity. There's tons of reasons.

Hell, people generally don't even know Bowser has a chaingrab on almost everyone on the cast!!

This un-information and misconceptions brought me to think of quitting Bowser just so I don't have to put up with BS like "Bowser is slow" anymore.

Besides - Just because Sonic is an extremely often played character it doesn't make him High Tier either, right? And because Falco is one of the lesser played character he isn't only Mid Tier either, correct?

 

[OmniOstrich]

Im very skeptical about bowser being an MK counter, to say the least.

Could you give me an example and/or video of a bowser taking out a high level MK in a tournament set or MM?

 

[iRJi]

I love how people go to the infinite as a viable option. IDK about other coasts but the East coast bans Infinites on characters, and since that was the only thing really making it a viable match its not logical to say that you need to use him to have a standard chance to beat MK.

 

[Red Arremer]

Im very skeptical about bowser being an MK counter, to say the least.

Could you give me an example and/or video of a bowser taking out a high level MK in a tournament set or MM?

"Counter" normally means it's a highly disadvantaged matchup.

And please read my posting. Bowser is hardly represented at tournaments. Vex Kasrani, the only player who uses Bowser and goes to tournaments, hardly uses him in tournaments, and the other Bowsers are scattered across the world.

The possible infinite has only been recently discovered, aside from that.

Read this thread for further information:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233635

I love how people go to the infinite as a viable option. IDK about other coasts but the East coast bans Infinites on characters, and since that was the only thing really making it a viable match its not logical to say that you need to use him to have a standard chance to beat MK.

Well that sucks for East Coast then. And I never said that you have to use him to beat Meta Knight. I said that he is possibly Meta Knight's first disadvantageous matchup, thus debunking ANOTHER argument of the Pro-Ban side.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

I love how people go to the infinite as a viable option. IDK about other coasts but the East coast bans Infinites on characters, and since that was the only thing really making it a viable match its not logical to say that you need to use him to have a standard chance to beat MK.

It's not the only thing making him viable against MK. He already had the weight advantage, a chaingrab, KO potential, and a shield that could actually handle MKs attacks (including tornado). That said, we still need to see it in action, as character specific infinites don't always make an advantage. ZSS has tools against Wario, and an infinite, but she doesn't beat him. So waiting and seeing is the best thing to do IMO.

 

[cutter]

The infinites in brawl (IC infinites, D3 infinites, ZSS infinite on ROB, etc.) should not be banned. They should only be banned when they dominate and overcentralize the game so bad that the whole game degenerates into that tactic.

I cannot understand why we would want to artificially enhance a few specific character matchups.

 

[CRASHiC]

ZSS infinite is the most ridiculous looking infinite ever.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I love how people go to the infinite as a viable option. IDK about other coasts but the East coast bans Infinites on characters, and since that was the only thing really making it a viable match its not logical to say that you need to use him to have a standard chance to beat MK.

East Coast players are mad talented, but the standard ruleset sucks, hard. Ninjalink was extremely short-sighted when he decided that infinites were universally "too good" and influenced the entire region to ban them.

Seriously, the entire region needs a good dose of Sirlin.

6 frames of lag changes the game up a lot. This is undeniable. Thus, playing only Online will make you learn an entirely different game. This is undeniable fact.

Actually, it'll make you learn multiple different games, because latency is inconsistent (yes, latency, there are a lot of matches that are lagless, but even in green you'll get at least a few frames between when you provide an input and the game registers it, and that's latency).

However, they'll all be far more offensive then Brawl.

 

[|RK|]

Metaknight's momentum cancelling is pretty **** good. He lives for longer than many other characters of similar weight do. Also, he can gimp the cast better than anyone else. In fact, he is the only character that can consistently gimp safely and reliably.

I'm not pro/con ban, but I rarely see these point brought up. I mean, we know how good Meta is, so that shouldn't really be the argument, right?

I love you right now. (No Homo)

Aren't you the same person who was talking about how Meta-Knight is too good? And Gea's just bringing up points that don't necessarily affect either side. He is also not being short-sighted and just bringing up things to progress the discussion. You, on the other hand... did you read the rest of the topic? You'll find that your redundant argument isn't even worth it anymore. A smarter pro-ban, like salaboB will tell you this,

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think the biggest problem MOST people have in this community is accepting that they suck.

That's true, just because certain people have difficulty with MK doesn't make him "too good".

Unfortunately this is indicative of a greater problem in this community that people are too dependant on induction and not deduction.

Agreed.

Well not really.

I think the biggest problem ALL people have is they just aren't sexy as I am.

...

You wish! I'm sexier then you'll ever be!

this is a stupid thread lol.

ic in theory are gonna be doomed to mid tier.

Well, that leaves us with 2 options.

1. They belong there.

2. We need a better paper, what are the flaws with the current one.


I've been trying to address the flaws with the current theoretical model, but if I'm wrong, other people need to step up to.

It's much more productive then whining about "theorycraft".

 

[iRJi]

East Coast players are mad talented, but the standard ruleset sucks, hard. Ninjalink was extremely short-sighted when he decided that infinites were universally "too good" and influenced the entire region to ban them.

Seriously, the entire region needs a good dose of Sirlin.

In a way it does appear "too good" Some infinite's, due to the high amount of people that play that character, can shutdown another character completely. D3 to Bowser, D3 to Luigi (only using D3 because its the most common case) are good example, and although that D3 to bowser is a bad match up w/o the infinite, D3 to Luigi isn't as bad without it, it actually becomes a viable match up. Just pure examples, not bashing the fact that its broken because it isn't broken in a realistic look, it just takes little skill to pull off with an extremely high reward.

 

[Sky`]

Lol apex Imo.
Helped me decide which side to be on.

 

[Red Arremer]

Lol apex Imo.
Helped me decide which side to be on.

Yea, I doubt Genesis will be that different.

 

[adumbrodeus]

In a way it does appear "too good" Some infinite's, due to the high amount of people that play that character, can shutdown another character completely. D3 to Bowser, D3 to Luigi (only using D3 because its the most common case) are good example, and although that D3 to bowser is a bad match up w/o the infinite, D3 to Luigi isn't as bad without it, it actually becomes a viable match up. Just pure examples, not bashing the fact that its broken because it isn't broken in a realistic look, it just takes little skill to pull off with an extremely high reward.

Before I start, under the assumption that you are correct on your facts, let me note this, DDD cannot infinite Luigi. If you buttion mash properly (I probably need to hunt down Magus' method) you can break out. It's been done up to, the 130s I believe by reflex off of the required single pummel. The same holds true for mario and samus (Bowser isn't an infinite anyway). So, he doesn't really shut down Luigi, Luigi mainers just need to get better.


Ok, back to the idea. The thing is, bad match-ups happen in video games, that why there's counter-picking, especially in our counter-picking friendly game. Unless it blatently overcentralizes the metagame (in other words, this one tactic does that to about half the cast) banning it is a definate knee-jerk reaction and just serves to artificially enhance match-ups for certain characters in the same way as banning Marth's dtilt would.