Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Nic64]

However, they'll all be far more offensive then Brawl.

the game gets even more retardedly camp dominant online if anything lol

 

[Sky`]

Yea, I doubt Genesis will be that different.

A snake or a Diddy might win Genesis.

Either way, I think the whole community is beset on not letting a MK win.

 

[P. O. F.]

I'm kind of understanding where non meta banners are coming from now but I still strongly believe that AT THIS CURRENT point in the meta game, he should be banned.

You can beat the Western All Stars in a Basketball game
Sagat in SF IV with Ryu or Ken
Mileena in MK II
Oddjob in Goldeneye 64
Arsenal in Fifa
Pikachu in Smash 64
Fox in Melee

and so much more without having to adjust strategies, approaches, and just your overall game to beat these opponents where as in Brawl against Meta Knight, you can't even dare dream to be offensive and both winning sets at Apex proved this to be true. Lain had to camp M2K by waiting for the grab and using his down B to keep him at bay and Ally waited for M2K to misspace an aerial to get that spike on Halberd. You LITERALLY need to be a top 5-8 character in Brawl to successfully beat a top level or high level Meta Knight. It's stupid. Look at the previous post that I made on here and read the post by Thumbswayup. All it takes for a basic meta knight to beat a high level player who DOES NOT USE snake, DDD, or another top five character is a simple dair or ******** gimp. Thats it. A Toon Link, Link, Mario Zelda, Olimar, etc could absolutely be ****** a meta knight but if they go off stage...they lose a stock. At least with Fox's shine in Melee you could DI away from it and if they miss throw out an attack and gimp them back. You can't gimp a MK due to his 5-6 jumps, his upB, side B, and his neu B which all help him recover! Yes, he has even matchups...thats true but what if I don't feel like being a top tier *****? What if I don't want to use the best two characters in the game? I shouldn't have to do that. Once again, a Melee Falcon can beat a Melee Fox or a Melee DK (Bum) can beat a Melee Fox (M2K) I'm not saying he is not beatable....he is. But hes good on every stage and imbalances this game at this point in time.

 

[Nic64]

and so much more without having to adjust strategies, approaches, and just your overall game to beat these opponents where as in Brawl against Meta Knight, you can't even dare dream to be offensive and both winning sets at Apex proved this to be true.

brawl is a defensive oriented game in general where you ALWAYS have to adapt to your oppponent, not just if they're meta knight, I don't see your point here.

 

[iRJi]

Ok, back to the idea. The thing is, bad match-ups happen in video games, that why there's counter-picking, especially in our counter-picking friendly game. Unless it blatently overcentralizes the metagame (in other words, this one tactic does that to about half the cast) banning it is a definate knee-jerk reaction and just serves to artificially enhance match-ups for certain characters in the same way as banning Marth's dtilt would.

That bolded statement is completely true, but lets apply it to MK since it is after all the MK thread. Your completely right that counter picks happen, and it should happen, but if you have a character that on the most part eliminates the fact that you need to counter pick between matches, isn't that enough to describe MK?

 

[salaboB]

Since he's possibly a disadvantageous matchup for Meta Knight, yes, I'd say Bowser is his hardest matchup. Of course, 60:40 is still winnable.

Why don't we wait for this to be proven before it even gets thought about as evidence that MK doesn't need banning?

As things stand, it's a nice idea but far from demonstrated at this time.

...just reminds me of the last big thread's "Bowser, Yoshi, ZSS, DK and Diddy are all MK counters!" and one by one they didn't end up doing anything particularily special against him.

 

[Liquid Gen]

I'm kind of understanding where non meta banners are coming from now but I still strongly believe that AT THIS CURRENT point in the meta game, he should be banned.

You can beat the Western All Stars in a Basketball game
Sagat in SF IV with Ryu or Ken
Mileena in MK II
Oddjob in Goldeneye 64
Arsenal in Fifa
Pikachu in Smash 64
Fox in Melee

and so much more without having to adjust strategies, approaches, and just your overall game to beat these opponents where as in Brawl against Meta Knight, you can't even dare dream to be offensive and both winning sets at Apex proved this to be true. Lain had to camp M2K by waiting for the grab and using his down B to keep him at bay and Ally waited for M2K to misspace an aerial to get that spike on Halberd. You LITERALLY need to be a top 5-8 character in Brawl to successfully beat a top level or high level Meta Knight. It's stupid. Look at the previous post that I made on here and read the post by Thumbswayup. All it takes for a basic meta knight to beat a high level player who DOES NOT USE snake, DDD, or another top five character is a simple dair or ******** gimp. Thats it. A Toon Link, Link, Mario Zelda, Olimar, etc could absolutely be ****** a meta knight but if they go off stage...they lose a stock. At least with Fox's shine in Melee you could DI away from it and if they miss throw out an attack and gimp them back. You can't gimp a MK due to his 5-6 jumps, his upB, side B, and his neu B which all help him recover! Yes, he has even matchups...thats true but what if I don't feel like being a top tier *****? What if I don't want to use the best two characters in the game? I shouldn't have to do that. Once again, a Melee Falcon can beat a Melee Fox or a Melee DK (Bum) can beat a Melee Fox (M2K) I'm not saying he is not beatable....he is. But hes good on every stage and imbalances this game at this point in time.

If you want to be even vs. MK so ba,d use Bowser.

OR Snake.

Or several other characters.

 

[Red Arremer]

...just reminds me of the last big thread's "Bowser, Yoshi, ZSS, DK and Diddy are all MK counters!" and one by one they didn't end up doing anything particularily special against him.

Noone ever proposed Bowser was a Meta Knight counter (up until now, of course). It was said that he would be even-ish. Nothing else. Everything else has been blown up out of proportion.

 

[Nic64]

yeah, and in all actuality I don't recall anyone on that list being mentioned as an actual counter except diddy, and I think M2K is the only one who said that -_- those are characters that don't do terribly against MK and are solid picks for him, except DK lol.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That bolded statement is completely true, but lets apply it to MK since it is after all the MK thread. Your completely right that counter picks happen, and it should happen, but if you have a character that on the most part eliminates the fact that you need to counter pick between matches, isn't that enough to describe MK?

But is just not being counter-pickable enough to warrant a ban.

You also have to remember, that while technically true, it's not strictly speaking true that you can't counter-pick against MK.

If you start as ROB and your opponent picks MK, you lose, and next match you pick Snake after your opponent picks MK, isn't that counter-picking? Sure, it doesn't create an advantagious match-up unlike most counter-picks but it's still counter-picking.


And you've got to remember that simply elimating a true counter-pick doesn't necessarily overcentralize. It's entirely dependant on the metagame and which other characters are viable. The fact that our metagame is counter-pick friendly however is what discourages the infinite grabs from overcentralizing, it's really efficent at preventing them from overcentralizing. However, the fact that MK is pretty immune to counterpicking doesn't make him overcentralizing because he is nowhere near is powerful in almost any match-up as some of the infinite grabs.

edit:

If he actually DOES enough, you'll need a great deal more deductive evidence to prove it, including much better match-ups. I said this last time, it's too soon to ban MK if only because the data isn't there to establish true dominance because tournament results cannot distinguish between "MK is dominating" and "MK players are dominating".

I don't know whether it's the former or the latter, but untill which is firmly established, an MK ban is unjustifiable.

 

[salaboB]

Noone ever proposed Bowser was a Meta Knight counter (up until now, of course). It was said that he would be even-ish. Nothing else. Everything else has been blown up out of proportion.

yeah, and in all actuality I don't recall anyone on that list being mentioned as an actual counter except diddy, and I think M2K is the only one who said that -_- those are characters that don't do terribly against MK and are solid picks for him, except DK lol.

During that last big thread, they all were proposed as counters with "proof" because of techniques found that would beat MK.

They all were overhyped.

All I'm saying is that if Bowser is really such a counter for MK, someone good should pick him up and massacre MK's at tournaments with him - the Bowser will have both matchup unfamiliarity AND a 60:40 match on his side, right? So wait for it to be demonstrated before joining the crowd of people who predict the sky is falling while it's still firmly glued in place.

 

[Red Arremer]

Which "last big thread" are you speaking of? The one I created? That was yesterday.

The problem is that even with this information, the chances people pick Bowser up are almost nil, because of the many many reasons why Bowser is one of the most neglected characters in the game.

 

[salaboB]

Which "last big thread" are you speaking of? The one I created? That was yesterday.

No, the second "Should MK be banned" thread. Yours is not anywhere close to "big" on the scale these ban MK threads are. Please, if you make an assumption and it makes the post you're reading idiotic, rethink how you're reading it.

But is just not being counter-pickable enough to warrant a ban.

I posted this earlier, but it really sums my answer to this up and seemed to have been completely missed, so here it is again (Slightly edited for clarity):

"MK is, quite simply, "not broken enough to be banned" if being "broken" is the requirement.

He's also not "fair" to allow if the goal is to create an even playing field where you always have at least two options to do anything and don't have to choose one character or miss out on an advantage, slight as people may feel it is. This is related to his resistance to being counterpicked.

Most people couldn't care less about the second, so since the first is true will never be convinced through discussion that MK needs banning.

A final option, but one that will only pass if time changes things (So there's nothing to discuss about it currently), is that for some reason people would care if MK were played too much -- why, I don't quite understand, as he'd still not be "broken enough to be banned" even if 90% of tournament competitors played as him, but apparently that would make many willing to support a ban of MK (Since a big tournament with a relatively low % of MKs has been enough to convince people he doesn't need a ban). If the problem isn't big and obvious why fix it, I guess.

There are of course the "BAN MK I CAN'T BEAT HIM" and the "DON'T BAN MK LEARN TO PLAY NOOB" people on both sides who don't care about any form of logic either for or against, but trying to convince them is pretty pointless. I suspect they make up the bulk of the people who pay attention to sheer % MK usage, though."

 

[adumbrodeus]

Which "last big thread" are you speaking of? The one I created? That was yesterday.

The problem is that even with this information, the chances people pick Bowser up are almost nil, because of the many many reasons why Bowser is one of the most neglected characters in the game.

Actually, a while back it was proposed that Bowser went even or was a 55-45 Bowser's advantage against MK. A ton of people tried to back it up, and the rest of the characters he mentioned were also in on this.

The flavor of the moment was Olimar, and a lot of people were saying (M2K I believe and definately Inui included) that perfect camping Olimar was actually amazing. He's improved, but never really panned out. At the same time, Snake re-emerged as a possible MK counter (55-45) and I debated it for a while with Inui, M2K, and a few other Broomers. Ultimately, M2K decided that the match-up was even (after fighting Ally, not after the discussion), and Inui still thinks Snake is utterly amazing so (as in, basically no counters), but he seems to be improving, so we'll see if he's right.

I can pull up the posts if you want, the thread is still around.

I posted this earlier, but it really sums my answer to this up and seemed to have been completely missed, so here it is again (Slightly edited for clarity):

"MK is, quite simply, "not broken enough to be banned" if being "broken" is the requirement.

He's also not "fair" to allow if the goal is to create an even playing field where you always have at least two options to do anything and don't have to choose one character or miss out on an advantage, slight as people may feel it is. This is related to his resistance to being counterpicked.

Most people couldn't care less about the second, so since the first is true will never be convinced through discussion that MK needs banning.

A final option, but one that will only pass if time changes things (So there's nothing to discuss about it currently), is that for some reason people would care if MK were played too much -- why, I don't quite understand, as he'd still not be "broken enough to be banned" even if 90% of tournament competitors played as him, but apparently that would make many willing to support a ban of MK (Since a big tournament with a relatively low % of MKs has been enough to convince people he doesn't need a ban). If the problem isn't big and obvious why fix it, I guess.

There are of course the "BAN MK I CAN'T BEAT HIM" and the "DON'T BAN MK LEARN TO PLAY NOOB" people on both sides who don't care about any form of logic either for or against, but trying to convince them is pretty pointless. I suspect they make up the bulk of the people who pay attention to sheer % MK usage, though."

Well, understand that being "broken" refers to overcentralization, now does MK overcentralize the metagame? That's the REAL question we need to ask, and that can only be proven by deductive reasoning, in other words, match-ups.

The simple fact that people use MK a lot doesn't mean much, because it could just as easily not make any reference to the character's real abilities for reasons such as underdeveloped metagames, which the bowser infinite seems to illustrate.

 

[swordgard]

Which "last big thread" are you speaking of? The one I created? That was yesterday.

The problem is that even with this information, the chances people pick Bowser up are almost nil, because of the many many reasons why Bowser is one of the most neglected characters in the game.

Ok, lets make this clear. MK doesnt go even with bowser. Its 6/4 for MK.

1st of all, il refute all of your arguments.

The grab simply wont happen at all or very little and doesnt deal much damage, if you wanna talk about cging, at least say ice climbers or falco, bowser has nothing on MK there. It doesnt even work on alot of stages.

2- Yes, bowser will survive alot, but upair strings will **** his % so bad.

3- Flame camping.... seriously, you do realize how easy MK can just hover above, then fall behind you into nado?.

4- Fortress may be invincible, but it lacks range even OOS, and is very punishable at the end.

5- Bowsers shield may be the biggest in the game, but hes also huge and still easy to shield stab with dtilt and cannot handle pressure in shield much.

6- You: Ftilt has priority.
Me: MK bypasses ground priority system >.>
He uses air priority, disjointedness is what matters, unfortunatly on the ground bowser has none.


Alright, any more questions?


Oh and dont think im pro ban now, i just hate the way you create arguments which are often blatantly flawed and because yuna is on anti-ban too he doesnt give a shizzles about yours and let them pass.

 

[Red Arremer]

stuff

The grab simply wont happen at all or very little and doesnt deal much damage, if you wanna talk about cging, at least say ice climbers or falco, bowser has nothing on MK there. It doesnt even work on alot of stages.

other stuff

lol, mainly the thing with the CG, but still lol

Oh and dont think im pro ban now, i just hate the way you create arguments which are often blatantly flawed and because yuna is on anti-ban too he doesnt give a shizzles about yours and let them pass.

Such as? How are they "blatantly flawed"? Who mains Bowser since the game's release? Oh right, it was Spadefox. Who almost quit him after this time because of how dumb and not knowing at least 80-90% of the people on SWF are? If I remember correctly it was Spadefox. So who do you think knows more about Bowser? Spadefox, who played him since Day 1 of Japanese release or you?

 

[salaboB]

Actually, a while back it was proposed that Bowser went even or was a 55-45 Bowser's advantage against MK. A ton of people tried to back it up, and the rest of the characters he mentioned were also in on this.

The flavor of the moment was Olimar, and a lot of people were saying (M2K I believe and definately Inui included) that perfect camping Olimar was actually amazing. He's improved, but never really panned out. At the same time, Snake re-emerged as a possible MK counter (55-45) and I debated it for a while with Inui, M2K, and a few other Broomers. Ultimately, M2K decided that the match-up was even (after fighting Ally, not after the discussion), and Inui still thinks Snake is utterly amazing so (as in, basically no counters), but he seems to be improving, so we'll see if he's right.

I can pull up the posts if you want, the thread is still around.

Whoops, forgot Olimar. You're right about him being the one who was being touted as impossible to break through the guard of.

Well, understand that being "broken" refers to overcentralization, now does MK overcentralize the metagame? That's the REAL question we need to ask, and that can only be proven by deductive reasoning, in other words, match-ups.

I don't believe MK overcentralizes the metagame. I believe him being unbanned is poor for the overall health of the competitive community.

My first two points could be reworded to reflect that: That with the currently known techs for him he simply doesn't overcentralize the game so a majority of people will never be convinced through discussion, and that even if banning him would be better for the community, because the overcentralization isn't true that same majority will never care.

The simple fact that people use MK a lot doesn't mean much, because it could just as easily not make any reference to the character's real abilities for reasons such as underdeveloped metagames, which the bowser infinite seems to illustrate.

The last half of my explanation was in regards to how this doesn't mean much, so I agree with this.

Such as? How are they "blatantly flawed"? Who mains Bowser since the game's release? Oh right, it was Spadefox. Who almost quit him after this time because of how dumb and not knowing at least 80-90% of the people on SWF are? If I remember correctly it was Spadefox. So who do you think knows more about Bowser? Spadefox, who played him since Day 1 of Japanese release or you?

Seriously? "Who almost quit him because of how dumb ... people are"? Seriously?

Why don't you just admit that the attitudes of people around you impact which character you choose, and concede that previous point to me?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ok, lets make this clear. MK doesnt go even with bowser. Its 6/4 for MK.

1st of all, il refute all of your arguments.

The grab simply wont happen at all or very little and doesnt deal much damage, if you wanna talk about cging, at least say ice climbers or falco, bowser has nothing on MK there. It doesnt even work on alot of stages.

Bowser actually has a very good CG game because his releases are AMAZING, seriously, check the frame data.

Furthermore, Bowser's got a lot better grab range then ICs, so it's more practical that he can get grabs in.

4- Fortress may be invincible, but it lacks range even OOS, and is very punishable at the end.

Fortress is amazing, sure it's punishable at the end but you can move with it and ledge cancel if you make a mistake. And seriously, you should never fail to actually hit your opponent when you up-b if you use it solely as a counter move.


I'm probably missing a few points, but I don't know Bowser well enough to actually defend them, can somebody get MrEh?

 

[|RK|]

Ok, lets make this clear. MK doesnt go even with bowser. Its 6/4 for MK.

1st of all, il refute all of your arguments.

The grab simply wont happen at all or very little and doesnt deal much damage, if you wanna talk about cging, at least say ice climbers or falco, bowser has nothing on MK there. It doesnt even work on alot of stages.


You are removing human error from the equation, so your point is moot.

2- Yes, bowser will survive alot, but upair strings will **** his % so bad.

Show me a match. I really doubt there's nothing Bowser can do about it.

3- Flame camping.... seriously, you do realize how easy MK can just hover above, then fall behind you into nado?.

You don't know about Bowser, obviously. Show me a match.

4- Fortress may be invincible, but it lacks range even OOS, and is very punishable at the end.

If it hits it doesn't matter. Again, a Bowser main has better chances of knowing Bowser's options, stop assuming.

5- Bowsers shield may be the biggest in the game, but hes also huge and still easy to shield stab with dtilt and cannot handle pressure in shield much.

You are totally nitpicking. You know that MK could dash grab him too, right? Again, you know nothing about Bowser (not saying that I do, but you are assuming a lot)

6- You: Ftilt has priority.
Me: MK bypasses ground priority system >.>
He uses air priority, disjointedness is what matters, unfortunatly on the ground bowser has none.

Did you read the topic?

Do yu think that Bowser is too slow...?

And Spadefox, don't drop Bowser because of what some people say. Just start reppin some Bowser in tournaments and absolutely **** MKs. But you should put that topic on the Bowser boards, and attempt to get more feedback. From what I remember, the problem was location.

 

[swordgard]

Did you even counter my argument? I know tons of player who played a character from day 1 but still dont know anything about them. I do not care what you know about him for you do not play at a pro level and therefore cannot test if your own assumptions are right. I dont see you win with him, heck i dont even see you place in tourneys. Please, go prove us that bowser is that known and is a MK counter, just like im still waiting for yoshi to counter MKs. Wont happen. Also, bowser has WAY too many bad matchups to place well nowadays, the metagame evolves, and bowser is slowly going down.

Whatsover, you cant just say lol and pretend i didnt counter your argument. I did. As i said, the cg doesnt work on many levels due to platforms and air grab break. And bowser cant really kill much out of his cg, and should almost never land a grab on a good mk, and the grab is only good at high%. so yeah.


And please spadefox, i think i know more about bowser, considering how you seem to think ftilts priority matter vs metaknight. Seriously.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Bowser's ftilt hits MK out of his shfair, as it outranges it.

Fire spacing owns all of MK's aerial approaches (except tornado obviously, which can be countered by DownB, klaw, ftilt, what have you).

Anything MK can do, Bowser can counter.

Swordgard, until you learn something about Bowser, please stfu about the MK/Bowser matchup.
and Thank you Adum, for knowing SOMETHING about Bowser. You have no ideawhat that means to us Bowsers.

EDIT TO NEW POST: Our Cg IS GUARANTEED. All we need to do is listen to your mashings and time our attack accordingly. Platforms have no place as the standard GR > pivot to GR > dash grab works fine.

 

[Red Arremer]

Did you even counter my argument?

No, because you are obviously too blind to correctly read what I wrote in my Bowser vs Meta Knight thread, thank you very much.

I do not care what you know about him for you do not play at a pro level

How do you know?

I dont see you win with him, heck i dont even see you place in tourneys. Please, go prove us that bowser is that known and is a MK counter, just like im still waiting for yoshi to counter MKs. Wont happen.

Organize a big tournament with enough players here in Austria, and I'll gladly place for you.

Also, bowser has WAY too many bad matchups to place well nowadays, the metagame evolves, and bowser is slowly going down.

Yes. The metagame evolves, and Bowser doesn't catch up, even with the character metagames of BOTTOM TIERS. Out of all character-specific metagames, Bowser's is the most underdeveloped and neglected.

And please spadefox, i think i know more about bowser, considering how you seem to think ftilts priority matter vs metaknight. Seriously.

Read the god**** topic again. I said that THE FTILT BEATS MOST OF META KNIGHT'S MOVES, not that it beats EVERYTHING. Idiot.

 

[swordgard]

Do yu think that Bowser is too slow...?

And Spadefox, don't drop Bowser because of what some people say. Just start reppin some Bowser in tournaments and absolutely **** MKs. But you should put that topic on the Bowser boards, and attempt to get more feedback. From what I remember, the problem was location.

Lol, the human error part. Yes MK can make a mistake, but if i was to count on that, then lets put bowser doing the same type of mistake, hel get punished WAY more.

2- You dont know by now that upair to upair IS a natural combo. We saw it happen many time at APEX on the live stream, on way smaller characters than bowser. Seriously.

3- Show me a match of someone flame camping one of the best MKs. I gave you a simple technique to get around it, i dont need video proof for that >.>

4- The only hit that will send flying enough not to punish is the first of fortress, and it lacks range. I played bowser, stop assuming i dont know stuff, your not even arguing, your just saying i dont know. Look, it doesnt have much range, nowhere near as much as MK, MK WILL get punished in most cases, most probably with a dair.
5- Im not nitpicking, im addressing HIS argument. He said bowser has the biggest shield in the game. Im just saying he has a big shield, but is still very shield stabbable due to his huge size.
6- Hey, i could go quote him on saying Ftilt has alot of priority and kills.


Oh and btw, any of mks move but nado WILL go through ftilt or almost, priority doesnt matter with MK.

 

[Curaga]

Is Bowser as good as he was in Melee?

He was horrifically under used and beaten up by Space Animals, but he had a lot of untapped potential. o_o

 

[Red Arremer]

Right. That's it. Thank you swordgard. **** it. I'll throw Bowser.

Seriously. PEOPLE THINK THEY KNOW BOWSER BETTER THAN ALL OF HIS MAINS.

Okay. Bowser is slow, his moves all suck, his chaingrab is absolutely worthless and all matchups are 80:20 or worse. Continue thinking that.

I will never ever talk about Bowser with anyone but people who know enough about him to not state such *******ery.

 

[swordgard]

Did you really just reference Goldeneye? o_o;;

Wow

Uh?


What?


Anyways, whatsover, im done with bowser mains, fair > ftilt of bowser, you should know that. Ftilt is not disjointed at all. Get your facts straight.

Start placing bowser mains, till then, for me you guys are yoshi/pit/insert false overhyped MK counter or even mains.


Btw, i didnt say bowser suck, he doesnt go evenish with MK, he goes 6/4, that is my point.

 

[Red Arremer]

Is Bowser as good as he was in Melee?

He was horrifically under used and beaten up by Space Animals, but he had a lot of untapped potential. o_o

He's better than he was in Melee.

Start placing bowser mains, till then, for me you guys are yoshi/pit/insert false overhyped MK counter or even mains.

That's so easy with an amount of mains you can count on two hands.

 

[salaboB]

Right. That's it. Thank you swordgard. **** it. I'll throw Bowser.

Seriously. PEOPLE THINK THEY KNOW BOWSER BETTER THAN ALL OF HIS MAINS.

Okay. Bowser is slow, his moves all suck, his chaingrab is absolutely worthless and all matchups are 80:20 or worse. Continue thinking that.

I will never ever talk about Bowser with anyone but people who know enough about him to not state such *******ery.

So um...

Is this a good time for me to bring up my point that people likely aren't maining MK who otherwise would have due to community bias against him?

Cause you sure seem to be buckling to community pressure about Bowser...

 

[swordgard]

So um...

Is this a good time for me to bring up my point that people likely aren't maining MK who otherwise would have due to community bias against him?

Cause you sure seem to be buckling to community pressure about Bowser...

Salabob btw, are you ban or anti ban? I can never know it seems like your changing your mind or maybe im just reading your arguments wrong >.<

 

[Red Arremer]

So um...

Is this a good time for me to bring up my point that people likely aren't maining MK who otherwise would have due to community bias against him?

Cause you sure seem to be buckling to community pressure to not play Bowser...

No, it's not. Because I will still use Bowser as my main, but just never ever again talk about him unless I know this person knows what they are talking about or willing to educate themselves.

And it's no pressure, I'm just fed up with the ignorance everyone is shooting towards Bowser.

 

[Curaga]

So um...

Is this a good time for me to bring up my point that people likely aren't maining MK who otherwise would have due to community bias against him?

Cause you sure seem to be buckling to community pressure about Bowser...

Spadefox person's sarcasm is hard to pick up when on paper and you read stuff out of context.


They are actually promoting Bowser.

 

[swordgard]

He's better than he was in Melee.



That's so easy with an amount of mains you can count on two hands.

Oh and my bad, i thought australia had a scene. Whatsover, if you dont play good MKs, how could you know how good/bad he is. Since you guys dont have tourneys >.>

Unless your an online player, where id gladly play you.

 

[Sky`]

So um...

Is this a good time for me to bring up my point that people likely aren't maining MK who otherwise would have due to community bias against him?

Cause you sure seem to be buckling to community pressure about Bowser...

Are you saying that people are not using MK cause of the current aggro on him?

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh and my bad, i thought australia had a scene. Whatsover, if you dont play good MKs, how could you know how good/bad he is. Since you guys dont have tourneys >.>

Unless your an online player, where id gladly play you.

I really didn't know that Vienna was in Australia. Excuse me, while I'll go outside, and use my boomerang to hunt some capricorns in the Alps.

And I think I should know my secondary character choice at least decently well enough to know how he performs against my main.

 

[CRASHiC]

I really didn't know that Vienna was in Australia. Excuse me, while I'll go outside, and use my boomerang to hunt some capricorns in the Alps.

Isn't Metaknight banned in your country?

 

[salaboB]

Salabob btw, are you ban or anti ban? I can never know it seems like your changing your mind or maybe im just reading your arguments wrong >.<

I feel he should be banned but acknowledge that the requirements that most of the community wants for banning are not met by MK.

Spadefox person's sarcasm is hard to pick up when on paper and you read stuff out of context.


They are actually promoting Bowser.

Oh, I actually could tell that last one was sarcasm. But this:

Such as? How are they "blatantly flawed"? Who mains Bowser since the game's release? Oh right, it was Spadefox. Who almost quit him after this time because of how dumb and not knowing at least 80-90% of the people on SWF are? If I remember correctly it was Spadefox. So who do you think knows more about Bowser? Spadefox, who played him since Day 1 of Japanese release or you?

"Who almost quit him after this time because of how dumb ... [people] are?" sure sounds a lot like community pressure was getting to him.

And honestly, it's silly to argue against that point. People on the whole (So not all of them, but a majority) have always and will always bend to pressures from the community they are a part of. This community has a strong anti-MK bias, it will influence people deciding to play as him. I'm simply pointing it out because the ban argument is effectively dead so we may as well see if we can't understand what's going on with the character and why/why not people use him.

 

[Red Arremer]

Isn't Metaknight banned in your country?

No. Meta Knight is not banned in Europe. He's not even that muchly represented, we have waaaaay more Falcos and Toon Links.

 

[Curaga]

Are you saying that people are not using MK cause of the current aggro on him?

I think this is relevant and slightly true.

I think its just more of the community wanting to prove that the broken and unbeatable Meta Knight is beatable. Also, it creates its own level of excitement for the community to view MK in such a way, and then build up playstyles to take MKs down.

People who really want to play as MK and love the character will continue to play as MK. I'm sure there are some people out there who have made switches just to prove points, and to show their peers that their skill exists without the inclusion of a single character.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Are you saying that people are not using MK cause of the current aggro on him?

Well, it's true, unfortunately community pressure is making it more difficult to decide what is actually banworthy then it should.

If you want an illustration, let me ask you this, how many people plank?

I really didn't know that Vienna was in Australia. Excuse me, while I'll go outside, and use my boomerang to hunt some capricorns in the Alps.

Lol

Public service announcement from Spadefox: Austria is NOT Australia.

 

[ZesuBen]

Anti-ban and fine with it.


If we don't have Metaknight to have constant troll battles over, then we'll just move on to chaingrabbing. Then there'll be some Dedede's and Ice Climbers who will be very upset. Then Metaknight will be the one to say "You'll get no sympathy from me."

Ignore what I said in the paragraph. These things are more controversial than politics, yeesh.