Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Ryzol_]

If Marth tippers CF's shield, does CF get a guaranteed WD OOS -> grab? What if the tipper hits the very edge of your shield, so it would have missed if you weren't shielding?

 

[Scar]

You sure that it's any direction?

magus posts facts, i post experience

in my experience, SDI in any direction will pop CF off the ground, so that's what i'm going to continue to do, which is more effective than what 90% of captain falcon players currently do, so i'm pretty ok with that.

If Marth tippers CF's shield, does CF get a guaranteed WD OOS -> grab? What if the tipper hits the very edge of your shield, so it would have missed if you weren't shielding?

wd oos grab is actually pretty hard to consistently do vs marth, idk if you do it a lot but i actually can't remember one time that i've ever grabbed marth from a shielded fsmash

just knee him

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yea my post was assuming marth didn't do a laggy move on CF's shield. dtilt, fair, nair, bair or jab. Even ftilt if its spaced to the tip.

 

[Ryzol_]

Okay.

If you get knocked over and you want to get somewhere fast, is it faster to techroll that direction and run, or to tech in place and run? I'm thinking of the situation where you trade hits and you want to get back up and combo them.

 

[Roneblaster]

Ledge(hop)-advancing. How do you guys do it?

I use the stick to jump back, i know other people who use y and others who use the stick.

Also ledgehop -> nair. Any special tips other than "practice practice practice"?

 

[Mokumo]

just practice. and hit A to do the nair before you move the control stick towards the stage to move. for the most part, the sooner the nair comes out the better

 

[Roneblaster]

wouldnt that make me do a nair as I'm falling to my death?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I do down - a - hold towards the ledge.

practice

 

[BigD!!!]

im pretty sure you cant punish marth after shielding a tipped fsmash

the increased distance and shield lag makes it very difficult if not impossible

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i'm with big d on that one. i don't think wd oos to grab is fast enough and i don't think you're close enough to knee if THAT is even fast enough

 

[TresChikon]

So, if the Marth is spot on, all Falcon can do is run away and start over? Gee, Falcon really doesn't have any good matchups.

 

[BigD!!!]

well yes and no

a human marth cannot actually react fast enough to hit you out of your moves every single time, even if he gets it most of the time. just be very varied in your timing and method of attacking. its never really safe to approach, but do it occasionally to make sure hes worried about it. the way g reg once described the best way to play captain falcon in every matchup was "be defensive, but look aggressive". this is especially effective in the matchups where you have to beat range/priority, like marth and sheik. try to get them to defend themselves against an approach youre not going to do, and to do that you will have to use a reckless approach or two at some point.

so really, yes, there is nothing you can do to literally beat out marths moves, and i do think that marth does have a slight edge on falcon even in terms of human capabilities, but they wont be perfect so you can get in there

 

[Reaver197]

Ledge(hop)-advancing. How do you guys do it?

I use the stick to jump back, i know other people who use y and others who use the stick.

Also ledgehop -> nair. Any special tips other than "practice practice practice"?

I highly suggest switching to using Y to ledgehop. It will make doing aerials and wavelands off the ledge much easier and practical.

 

[Cosmo!]

i guarentee marth tip Fsmash has too much hitlag on your shield for you to WD out (especially at that ridiculous range) and grab marth before he can do anything

non-tipped, go for it

 

[Scar]

bet you i could knee him

reneblade practice is what you need but i recommend first deciding HOW you want to learn how to do it and then practicing that, instead of just trying to do it over and over and seeing what works.

 

[BigD!!!]

you cant knee him man, he'll be too far away

you could short hop and not fastfall and knee at the very end of it, and thats the only way you could even reach the marth. but that takes too long and his shield will be up by then

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, if it does tip the shield there's no way you can knee him. Even if he's at the very edge of the stage/platform so he doesn't have room to get any of the pushback from hitting a shield, you shield SDI it towards him, and you time the jump perfectly you'd still not get close enough. Under any normal conditions you don't even come close. Also, when it's spaced properly to tip you and the shield being closer causes it to not tip, you still normally can't even knee him. The spacing needs to be off altogether to get close enough for it.

That said, if it's spaced to tip on hit the shield will often reach in enough to cause it to not tip on block, and while you can't knee him you are able to WD OoS to JC grab it. If you were holding towards him (shield ASDI) it helps out a bit. Technically it's possible to WD JC grab him even if it does tip, but it needs to be so perfect that it'd only really be usable if he happens to be at the edge of the stage/platform where he won't be sliding backwards.

Okay.

If you get knocked over and you want to get somewhere fast, is it faster to techroll that direction and run, or to tech in place and run? I'm thinking of the situation where you trade hits and you want to get back up and combo them.

The techroll forward covers a little more distance than his run would during the difference in tech lag. His techroll forward is actually the 2nd longest next to Ganon's.

Overall though, one type of tech being faster to get them than the other depends on how close they end up to where the techroll goes and what you want to do. If you're going to be running a fair amount of the distance anyway the techroll would be faster, while if you wanted to knee someone only a techroll's distance away it would be faster to tech in place since the longer time to reach there is more than made up for by being able to get the jump and knee out along the way instead of afterwards.

 

[Roneblaster]

Christmas Come Early

 

[JPOBS]

i know its been said a lot but i seriously love magus' posts. god****

 

[Afro_Chris]

That said, if it's spaced to tip on hit the shield will often reach in enough to cause it to not tip on block, and while you can't knee him you are able to WD OoS to JC grab it. If you were holding towards him (shield ASDI) it helps out a bit. Technically it's possible to WD JC grab him even if it does tip, but it needs to be so perfect that it'd only really be usable if he happens to be at the edge of the stage/platform where he won't be sliding backwards.

haha i told u guys :D, so said u cant wd oos and grab marth

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Couldn't you take control of the stage though?

WD OoS

If he rolls follow it and ****. otherwise, can't you get a grab out before marth jabs/does any other move?

 

[Scar]

in my experience good marths usually grab, so don't get too comfy

broken *** marth grab range

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

k just asking

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yea his grab range is stupid. He'll be grabbing you more than Sheik AND it's usually a stock from that grab.

 

[Milos]

hmm something i learned is that the grab hitbox is the same for captain falcon as it is for marth.

marth's is just placed differently, it's in front of him. but that's why captain falcon can grab bahind himself and all that nonsense

 

[Tomacawk]

as a sheik grabs aren't usually stocks? =\
falcon sucks btw I can't play this character anymore
he's fronts like he's good by having insane combos but everybody knows he's an abused empty shell of a man at heart

 

[NES n00b]

as a sheik grabs aren't usually stocks? =\
falcon sucks btw I can't play this character anymore
he's fronts like he's good by having insane combos but everybody knows he's an abused empty shell of a man at heart

**** your shit.

 

[Ryzol_]

What's a good way to ledgehop waveland with invincibility frame that minimizes your chance of SD?

 

[CanISmash]

practice....

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falcon's ledgedash is easy. I've never SD'ed doing it.

Fox and Falco aren't so easy.

 

[Afro_Chris]

fox and falco are the easiest its just a normal wave dash for falco, and like a wave shine for fox, the timing doesn't even change

 

[JPOBS]

its not a normal wavedash cuz you have to let go of the ledge somehow.

this is the main problem for me when trying to ledge waveland with fox/falco. They fall/jump so fast i either go too low and SD on the airdodge, or go too high and do a sloppy waveland and get *****.

luckily fox/falco have like a billion other options from the ledge so wavelanding isnt that important.

 

[TresChikon]

Well you could imitate the waveshine timing, however it really kills your invincibility time. So it's better to practice w/o the shine.

 

[Afro_Chris]

true, when it all comes down to it its all about the practice

 

[ChivalRuse]

No. It's definitely different because you have to hit down and then time the airdodge.

 

[Juggleguy]

I agree Falcon's ledge waveland is easy. Like how the flashy wavelanding across platforms isn't as hard as it looks.

 

[NES n00b]

Just in case people like Gameguitarist awhile back want to see videos of me. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254917

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

thanks nes noob, gonna watch them now

 

[iamthemicrowave]

that mountain combo was so broken

 

[Reaver197]

NesNoob, too good.

When will you ever relinquish your nub title?