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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

flaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Rochester, NY
you can either

a) dair ASAP from a SH then you'll have to wait until after the hitstun to fastfall
b) wait a few frames after SH then dair, then you'll be able to fastfall before the hitstun (usually preferred method)
Ah, that's what I was afraid of.

And about the shield stun thing, I was just wondering if the frames from the hitlag of hitting the shield are exactly the same as landing damage. As in, is it like 5 frames either way?

I think the only difference is the hitbox is a lot bigger on the shield, right?

Thanks guys.
 

halcyon.days

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
485
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
In order to grab when a spacie is pillaring you, you grab after the shine, right?

I was playing my friend's Falco and the problem is that he always mixes it up by throwing in double shines randomly to catch me off guard. Falcon doesn't have very many options out of shield so what's the best approach to this situation?
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
In order to grab when a spacie is pillaring you, you grab after the shine, right?

I was playing my friend's Falco and the problem is that he always mixes it up by throwing in double shines randomly to catch me off guard. Falcon doesn't have very many options out of shield so what's the best approach to this situation?
It's totally approach dependent. They aerial asap (IE they are right next to you and the rising aerial hits your shield) you can grab them before they can land and shine.

If they hit your shield somewhere in the middle it's a little bit no man's land where you can either grab after the aerial or after the shine but it's tricky to know exactly when.

If they late aerial late you can grab after the shine.

Multishining and Fox's dair can't really be grabbed if they do it properly. Best bets would be to roll or wavedash OOS after the shine for all options if you want guarantee escapes from pillaring.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
If you SDI Falco's shine hitting your shield away and then go to shieldgrab the shine you'll be properly spaced so that any multishines after that will miss you (continue to hold away during the grab in case you mess up and get hit by the shine). You'll be able to grab him out of all of his out of shine options except WD away or JC grab. It doesn't work on Fox since his shine has a larger hitbox and will still reach you.
 

SonuvaBeach

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
1,141
Location
Howell, MI
If you SDI Falco's shine hitting your shield away and then go to shieldgrab the shine you'll be properly spaced so that any multishines after that will miss you (continue to hold away during the grab in case you mess up and get hit by the shine). You'll be able to grab him out of all of his out of shine options except WD away or JC grab. It doesn't work on Fox since his shine has a larger hitbox and will still reach you.
Is this Falcon specific? If not that would be awesome. If so, still awesome. Danke magus
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Scar, why do all my **** comboes happen when im not recording?
nerves, you need to get comfortable with recording to the point where playing while recording and playing while not recording is exactly the same thing for you, also when you get good enough at combos that they're second nature you won't be in the middle of something **** going in your mind "FINISH FINISH FINISH THIS IS RECORDED ZOMG EVERYONE WILL SEE HOW GOOD I AM"

also is there a secret to avoiding that gay thing that as youre ****** someone, you hit them with a move and they have no hitstun and just pop-out?
yeah, recognize what moves you do that put them in that situation and find an alternative to continue your combos

if you can't stop it from happening just accept it and avoid it entirely

when in particular does this happen to you? the only times i'm aware of it consistently happening is fB to fB combos, which are stupid anyways
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
Magus, in your last two posts, does that apply to light shielding or normal, or both? And i'm also curious about the entire cast not specifically falcon, i'm assuming some characters with higher traction wouldn't be able to lightshield and do it, if not all of them?
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
Lightshielding gives too much shieldstun and he'll be able to jump over your grab before you can get it out if you do. Multishines would also generally reach your shield while you're still in shieldstun from the previous one as well. I know even Peach can get far enough away when full shielding and she has very high traction.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
stomps should never make people pop up like that, but it does happen quite frequently with raptor boost, which is what i expected

yeah it sucks bc it's a pretty reliable combo continuer, but if you're getting the feeling that that's gonna happen just switch up wherever you were chasing with fB and use dair instead

i've never seen a stomp pop someone up like that and i'm pretty sure it's impossible
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
It happens when the hitbox does less than 7% or so and hits them while bouncing or laying on the ground after a flubbed tech. When side-b is fresh it doesn't happen, but when staled enough and the damage goes below that threshold it starts doing that. Falco's shine does it when staled too. Jabs are generally below this amount to begin with which is why if you A/SDI Sheik's jab reset enough to get into the air and avoid the forced getup you can also instantly jump out of it since there's no stun.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
lol yeah seriously

mother****er has the answer to everything

i just learned like 6 things that i've been wondering for over 52 weeks
 

P.C. Jona

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
3,175
you can down throw nipple spike peach and jiggs and some other stupid floaty people

its hard to know exactly when your gonna get it tho
 

Alukard

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
6,446
Location
Bronx
Just wondering, has anyone ever intentionally comboed into nipple spike? It would so **** if someone got good with nipplespiking and could uthrow -> nipple people for kills.
everytime the down throw takes me off stage scar has been dairing me usually lol ... and getting that ****ing peck spike
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
ive nair uair nipple spiked in a falcon ditto

didnt darkrain knee nipple ka masters luigi at fcd
 

ihavespaceblondes

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
4,229
Location
Memphis, TN
We did an all red team Falcon four for all on Yoshi's yesterday at a tourney. So my question is: why wasn't the Falcon Punch -> Falcon Punch -> raptor boost spike recorded?
 

GooeyBanana

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,653
Location
East Peoria, Illinois
Ok...got quite a few questions for yallz smart peepz.

1.) I just realized that you can move your shield *sigh* Yes, I'm stupid for just finding this out. Anyways, how important would you guys say doing this is? I suppose people just move their shields forward/forward and down depending on who you're playing to prevent pokes more?

2.) Falco, when he's shooting them laserz, do you only go under them while you're driving forwards? If so, I'm guessing you gotta use it just about when the laser comes out depending on the range of the Falco. Right?

3.) Another Falco question...where do you DI when you're getting pillar combo'd? Half the time I'm so devastated by the crap that I do dumb DI but when I'm actually thinking I just try and DI behind the Falco. Am I doing this right? Or is it really just dependent and you should be DI'ing wherever the platforms aren't near?

4.) Tech chase/whatever. I heard someone say they usually use the first grab to follow into a regrab to kind of read their opponent's tech pattern or something of that nature, and then follow the next tech with a dair/knee/whatever. I'd kind of just like input from multiple Falcons to see what they tend to do to put their tech chase into motion.

5.) Marf. Ok so I dthrow him at like low %, and he DIs too far away for my nair to really connect for crap. If he DIs like this, doesn't he end up having to land on the ground? Like in a tech situation? If so, I'm guessing a mindgame could form like rush past, wavedash back/in place, dsmash/backwards SHFFL dair?

6.) Ice Climbers. What do I do when I'm getting dthrow -> nana dair -> popo regrab'd? DI behind them? DI away from them? Up? Down? Holy poo it's annoying lol.

7.) Donkey Kong. The fool grabs me...then insert some cargo -> uair -> uair -> uair -> Falcon in trouble. Any way to escape this madness relatively quick? Any specific DI stuffs?

8.) Defensive Falcon. How do I play this mug? Run away SHFFL'd bairs?

9.) General Falcon question. Should I focus on placing my aerials behind the opponent when they're shielding? Can this work into like a mindgame where like if I'm constantly placing my aerials behind them, I switch it up and do it in front of them, then jab/grab/whatever? I just seem to get grabbed everytime I hit the front of their shield. Maybe I just need to hit lower on their shields, idk I'm trying to find out lolz. Also, can Samus really react much at all if I aerial the front of her shield? Only thing that comes to mind is Up B OoS, I don't think her grab is fast enough...but I could be wrong ofc.

10.) Combo question as well. I've realized something annoying and that's when let's say I dair a predicted Fox's tech roll. Then he flies up and knee, but he's too low of a % to die from it. Well crap, I couldn't FF L cancel the knee because I just SH knee'd so that it would connect. Should I be doing this? If so, do I just FF after the hit stun? If not, should I double jump FF L cancel knee instead?

11.) Dubz Q. What should I be focusing on doing with Falcon? I seem to knee my partner every once in a while, do I just need to be smarter about this or does this stuff just end up happening to everyone every once in a while? What are some ways to help aid my partner recover? Only things that come to mind is Up B or hitting the partner with the back of my uair, but I just think all of this is too risky because Falcon off stage = oh no.

That's all I can think of right now, thank you a **** ton if you can help me out with this. It'll help my Falcon game sooooo much.
 
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