Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Mokumo]

DI to the side on DK's uair. if the left side of donkey kong's head is hitting you then DI to the left, that way you'll get more distance and youll be harder to combo.

same with while you're getting pillared, the same rule applies when you get hit by falco's shine.

In doubles, every knee that lands after 40% changes the outcome of the game.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

for gooeybanana guy (sorry about the small font, didn't want the wall of text to take up TOO much space lol.) also, 1500th post.

1.) A good example of moving your shield is when you're on a platform and your opponent is beneath you, in which case you would move it down. Like to block marth utilts or falcon sh uairs. There's other times too but that's just an example. It's pretty important I would say.

2.) it depends on the height of the lasers. low lasers you can sh over and high lasers you can run or forward B under (although the latter is risky sometimes)

3.) You want to DI away from the combo in most cases. Forward told me sometimes you want to DI shine combos up but i haven't tried it. You can also SmashDI the dair in or away depending on how they hit you and sometimes this will put you outside the range of the shine so that it doesn't hit you and you can buffer roll out of the combo.

4.) For tech chasing, this this varies from falcon to falcon of course, but I read on here somewhere that one way you can do it is pick between either stomping where they land to cover tech/no tech options OR predict a techroll and just regrab. You can also punish teching in with stomp to knee or regrab, or teching away with knees since that sometimes ****s up their DI.

5.) For marth when you dthrow at low percents, you can either regrab if they DI just about any way except away (or maybe upaway or downaway), or you can nair them if they DI towards you. But if they do DI away, just do a techchase stomp to whatever or regrab and dthrow/uthrow again

6.) I asked Wobbles about this once when I played him but I don't remember what he told me. I think you C-stick towards them and DI down/behind and buffer roll, but i honestly have no clue if that's right.

7.) mokumo answered this one already, and i don't really know anyway since i've never played a competent DK

8.) Just dash-dance alot, space retreating nairs and bairs i guess. I'm sure someone will be able to give you a better answer since I usually try to play aggressively so I'm not really sure how to play defensively.

9.) Well first of all, you shouldn't be getting grabbed if you hit the front of their shield unless you're shffling incorrectly. You should be able to jab or buffer roll before they can grab you. However, jab/gentleman can be crouch cancelled and then they'll grab you but it depends on who you're fighting. As far as other general spacing **** like hitting them with dair or bair on the back of the shield is good, and like DJ knee/uair while pulling back your momentum so you land outside shield grab range is good too. With nair, just space so the tip of your feet are hitting them/their shield.

10.) The way you explained this was kind of confusing honestly but if you dair foxes or falcos at low percent, you can just regrab, or you can raptor boost to catch them before they land or techchase at lower percentages. usually regrab is the best option until they pop up high enough for a good nair/uair into a combo or a knee for KO/ edgeguard setups.

Fox and falco are pieces of **** though. They'll **** you no matter how good you are. oh and Sheik too. Don't get grabbed.

11.) Ha my friend Jet4 and I play double-falcon team. What character does your team mate use? You really can't do much as far as helping them recover besides like getting the opponents away from the edge so they can edgeguard/hog them and also if they DO get edgehogged, you can quickly dtilt them so they get their up-b back.

When it comes to kneeing your opponent, well **** happens lol. Don't sweat it if it happens but try not to do it too much lol. What jet4 and I do as far as how we play is he'll distract the opponents with his silly mindgames and when they're offguard i'll just run in and knee them then we'll both taunt because we're awesome. Someone else may be able to give you better advice than me on the teams subject though :-P

Hope this all helps. I'm pretty sure about most of the info I gave but if someone spots an error and needs to correct me, please do so

​

 

[Tomacawk]

warning, didn't read gg7's full post, may have repeats
1. when spacies are up in ur **** ****ing up ur shield, you should aim it up and towards them to **** up their l cancels and give you more time to shield grab before they shine. I think you can wd oos before the shine, too, but never tried it. I prefer buffered rolls
2. powershield. seriously. a laser hitting falco ****s up their grove, causing them to hesitate, so jump in for the ****.
3. this is how it breaks down. sdi the dair away or towards to get out of shine range. if you **** up and get shined, you should di hard away or hard towards, then it comes down to which direction they waveshined to how they're gunna follow up, but it's much better than being shined straight up where they can do anything.
4. stomp in place covers no tech and neutral tech. dding covers directional tech. if you're quick enough, you can regrab out of neutral tech. watch what they do when they get out of your tech chase. sometimes people like to buffer rolls after a neutral tech, if they do this then if you miss the guess you can still get them if you're ready to react instantly. also, you can just keep dding around, let them choose a tech, then see what they do. many ppl let the pressure get to them and do something dumb.
5. dthrow. regrab if they di towards you, if they di away then prepare to react off a tech. they can also, I believe around 15%ish, fair out of it. don't do an aerial until 30%--you should start uthrowing at this point, nair or uair will combo. you MUST capitalize on everything at this point, combos are auto pilot.
6. sdi down and away from the dair, buffer roll out.
7. di'ing helps the uair, but if it's fd gg. just think about your counter pick. also, at 30% they should begin uairing you. on the first uair if you can manage to monster sdi straight down, you can tech out. it's hard as **** though.
8. wd oos a lot, space nairs on shield out of shieldgrab range, avoid approaching unless you must, dd a ****load. pick safe edge guarding options, don't do anything too risky.
9. aim your attacks to 1 panel behind them, where a panel is how far they move from a dash backwards. the only thing safe on shield is your uair if you land it super low and hit the l cancel, and knee sometimes works but sometimes I get shield grabbed so I'm not sure if it's safe if you land it low.
10. it's up to you. depending on their DI, percent, and platforms, I may full hop rising knee, dj falling knee, shffl knee, whatever. and you can uair-> go for more stuff or regrab, but usually 50%+ you should take the knee and edgeguard.
11.dtilt is a monster team saver. use it over the ledge, it'll hit someone off AND knock ur team mate up. dash attack over the ledge can save, too, if you hit with the soft spot. be extremely cautious with your attacks. break up combos with your nair.

 

[Roneblaster]

gooey, tech-chase regrabs, if at all possible until like 50-60%.

i do it for multiple reasons. moves arent going to kill until that percent anyway. also its a good will-breaker. It has to be a helpless feeling knowing that no matter what you do youre just going to get grabbed.

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

so what are good stages vs samus?

stadium im guessing, but that else?

and how about FD?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yoshi's and battlefield are your best. then fd and stadium. dreamland and fod are really good for her.

in CPs cruise and floats are for you. Actually, i think every CP favors falcon as much or more than samus.

 

[Tomacawk]

sveet is pretty much right. i hate bfield but i might take a samus there, and yoshis = early kills, wall jump for you.

 

[Mogwai]

definitely true about all counterpicks being better for Falcon that Samus (except maybe Brinstar? probably still better for CF honestly...)

I think FD and PS are better than Yoshi's and Battlefield for you since they give you space to exploit your huge speed edge, but I'm not a Falcon main so I'll leave that one up to the experts.

 

[NES n00b]

Corneria is probably worse for Falcon.

 

[Mogwai]

o tru, fin camping is gay as ****.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ahhh **** corneria.

stadium is good for samus in neutral, platfrom double missile spam and what not. she lives to forever too.

fd is probably better for falcon on the stage, but bf is one of the worst stages for samus to recover on. that and dk64.

just don't go to DL64 or FoD, you'll have to work really hard to get a kill.

 

[Strong Badam]

brinstar/kj64 are good stages against samus imo. fd is good so she can't do stupid stuff w/ missiles.

gooeybanana: against dk, you don't have to worry about DI until around 13% or so when his uthrow -> uair knocks you over and starts comboing you. DI behind DK always, and when he has to chase you to Uair you especially DI behind him because then it's even harder for him to catch up. DK's are smart and will just regrab you though after maybe 2 uairs, but you'll at least be making it difficult for him =P. You should be able to tech-chase the hell out of him with dthrow and uthrow, though.... at least that's what happens to me as DK...

 

[Alukard]

yo scar ... cf isn't nearly as bad as u make him out to be LOL...

imagine that

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Scar

You and hax man
that was hot

 

[NES n00b]

yo scar ... cf isn't nearly as bad as u make him out to be LOL...

imagine that

Yeah he is even worse.

 

[Vro]

Yoshi's is less than or equal to Dreamland for Falcon Samus matchup imo. Stadium is great for Falcon too. Battlefield is best neutral, obviously.

 

[P.C. Jona]

yoshis is falcons best neutral

is every matchup

 

[AnDaLe]

gooey, ur not stupid for just figuring it out lol, i just found out about it just recently too, like 2 weeks ago? Cuz i asked how do i dodge Shad's Dair shine Bair combo. and they said to move ur shield up to make him mess up his L cancel.

 

[Scar]

CF ****in blows

i love him though

the stages he's good on are matchup dependent but in general yoshi's is good if you're not good, good falcons need the room to move, worse players need those lucky, surprise, or otherwise random knees to turn the tides of the match

battlefield is great vs spacies

DL64 is great but i don't think you get an advantage at all vs fox

FD is awesome but a double-edged sword at times

stadium is usually **** but fox/falco **** you on transformations

 

[Nakamaru]

why is DK 64 so good for falcon?

 

[Ripple]

so I hear I'm good with falcon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xgzWXp_0p8

 

[Tomacawk]

Ripple is really good. Everybody should compliment his falcon.

 

[DippnDots]

Falcon frowns on drama.

 

[Tomacawk]

He frowns on hypocrisy as well, along with space animals

 

[KAOSTAR]

so I hear I'm good with falcon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xgzWXp_0p8

solid .

 

[legion598]

I got a question I keep seeing falcons use raptor boost to screw up marths spacing and land a combo at the same time. does it work consistently? and also when should I use the raptor boost to do this?

Another question I have is peaches down smash is rocking my **** and I have no idea what to do when she spams it on a platform or when she uses it to edge gaurd

These are the 2 match ups im having major trouble with so any advice on them would also be much appriciated

 

[cykofox]

so I hear I'm good with falcon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xgzWXp_0p8

To be hones with you that was pretty average at its best. Its just that ripple wasnt falling for any of the dumb stuff tomacawk was throwing out. LOL at downthrow downsmash fail you think youd learn after the 1st time. tomacawk really needs to learn to **** out of grabs. solid stuff nonetheless...

 

[Ripple]

haha tomacawk

tbh that was just the first part of it, I'll have the rest of the matches up later

 

[Roneblaster]

too much d-throw dsmash, otherwise very solid.

 

[Strong Badam]

scar you're a great player and have pretty good combos and even better combos when your opponent DI's badly, but you're carzy if you think Falcon is a bad character. try playin' DK

 

[The Irish Mafia]

DL64 is good for falcon V fox because it lets you take the pushing pressure off his shine combos, and you can run away and come back with a nair or something. It helps your spacing game v people who are too agressive, IMO, which is enough of an advantage for falcon
Yoshi's is bad for falcon if the falcon can't navigate properly, if your movement game struggles than it's not a good falcon stage at all
FD is fine, just tech chase a lot and do nair combos but you have trouble v fox which is annoying
Stadium is balls for falcon v fox, you don't gain much from the blast boxes and the stage itself doesn't benefit you much, except for the transformations, but fox gets more out of it imo
FoD is a bad falcon stage and falcon will always lose there no exceptions

Falcon loses on every stage ever, even temple, because he's bottom tier and should never be played in tournament unless you're isai, but even he loses because falcon has no good matchups and no good stages and loses no matter what


also ripple more like ****-le am I right?

 

[NES n00b]

Nope falcon is bad.

 

[Scar]

yeah falcon is so bad he doesn't have autocombos on fastfallers like cargo uthrow uair uair uair uair uair uair uair uair bair or suicide monkeydrops

but no on a serious note, DK is an awful character but so is every single low tier, and when they see a character do something good (which falcon can occasionally do) they say that the character is better than theirs, which is true because low tiers are bad tournament characters

that said falcon is NOT included in my list of GOOD tournament characters simply because of his limitations in TOP level competitive play, at high levels falcon can compete well and at above-average levels he is VERY good, but at the top level of competitive play in smash CF is a very bad tournament character

his good matchups vs other tournament-viable characters include no one, he DEBATABLY beats peach and marth but seasoned pros who know those matches well will tell you they are stage-dependent and ultimately even

falcon loses DECIDEDLY to fox, falco, sheik, jigglypuff, and only wins vs marth and peach if the player is better than the opponent, not like how sheik players can beat half the cast even if the other guy is better

falcon does **** low tiers but how often do you run into a low tier in tourney

relative to every other character in the game, falcon is great. relative to tournament-viable characters he is right in the middle. relative to tournament-winning characters, he is BAD.

not that i'm johnning, because i love him to death and will never stop playing him, but there's such a thing as reality

 

[Strong Badam]

if only falcon's recovery wasn't totally ****

 

[Drecker]

if only falcon wasn't totally ****

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

yeah samus is so bad she doesn't have autocombos on fastfallers like cargo uthrow uair uair uair uair uair uair uair uair bair or suicide monkeydrops

but no on a serious note, DK is an awful character but so is every single low tier, and when they see a character do something good (which samus can occasionally do) they say that the character is better than theirs, which is true because low tiers are bad tournament characters

that said samus is NOT included in my list of GOOD tournament characters simply because of her limitations in TOP level competitive play, at high levels samus can compete well and at above-average levels she is VERY good, but at the top level of competitive play in smash samus is a very bad tournament character

her good matchups vs other tournament-viable characters include no one, she DEBATABLY beats fox and falco but seasoned pros who know those matches well will tell you they are stage-dependent and ultimately even

samus loses DECIDEDLY to marth, falcon, sheik, jigglypuff, and only wins vs fox and falco if the player is better than the opponent, not like how sheik players can beat half the cast even if the other guy is better

samus does **** low tiers but how often do you run into a low tier in tourney

relative to every other character in the game, samus is good. relative to tournament-viable characters she is right at the bottom. relative to tournament-winning characters, she is BAD.

not that i'm johnning, because i love her to death and will never stop playing her, but there's such a thing as reality

 

[Scar]

idk spaceballs i think samus is an awful character and is not tourney-viable, even at like levels other than top

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I was mostly copypasting. But I think she's JUST BARELY above the tourney-viable cut-off point. Like she's straddling the line between the two. And rocking back and forth.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Yeah, you don't hear many falcons winning tournaments nowadays
real shame
better pick it up scar

Seriously, though, there is a tier list, and it puts falcon as the 6th best character in the game. Falcon player's can't forget that. They are at 6 disadvantages when it comes to winning a tournament with falcon, but there are 7 for a jiggs player, 8 for an IC's player, etc, etc, etc
The thing is falcon isn't bad, he's just really really dependent on a lot of things, the primary one being the matchup, but none the less he has tools to fight every individual matchup, unlike a low tier like, I dunno, Bowser, who can't deal with projectile spams, or Kirby, who can't combo anyone
He can deal with the high tier matchups, he just has trouble with them. he can techchase spacies all day, do his falcon sex combos on peach and marth, and tech chase, CG, and falcon sex combo sheik


Can't do **** to jiggs tho, so broken

<3 u scar

 

[P.C. Jona]

you really think jiggs has 7 bad matchups ?

MAYBE fox

and MAYBE marth imo