pockyD
Smash Legend
go to the bank, get a loan
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Question: When is it okay to purposely try and profit from running a tournament?
- Thread starter Laijin
- Start date
Laijin
Smash Hero
Doesn't help if your in a ridiculous amount of student loan debt like me. Getting a loan from the bank in the year 2010 is not an easy task for people our age.
sidefx
Smash Champion
So I kinda skimmed through most of the pages, and im just going to put my 2 cents in. completely not directed at anyone, just my pov from running Genesis.
First and foremost, the sole reason Germ, King and I decided to run Genesis, was to hold a tournament worthy of being labeled as the best tournament of all time.
It was for the community, and nothing more. We never set out to make a profit, at all.
As you know, DBR has a history of releasing hyped up combo videos that are pretty successful due to the way we approach it and having it as entertaining as possible. We approached Genesis the same way.
We wanted the attendees to feel the excitement and hype that our combo videos have brought in the past. Like Evolution did and basically shut down smashboards when it was released.
We had to bring it.
And we did.
Some people say that we only had brawl to make money off people, and to exploit them for our own gain.
It is true that we dont play brawl, and have quit playing it for some time now, but that doesnt mean we wouldnt include it in our line up. If we had just had melee, Genesis wouldnt have had the hype it did and would have been one of the best tournaments of all time. (toot toot)
Our prices were a little steep -- but -- they were steep for a reason.
We had no sponsors, we had no monetary help from others, we had no pre-reg payment system up (long story, **** paypal), and actually had to cut a lot of the things we had planned for the tournament due to not having money to run it.
The prices that were in place for entry to the events were fair imo. For a tournament of that scale, 15-20 dollars for teams/singles per person was what it should be.
The venue fee? It covered the venue cost, and nothing more. We attempted to estimate how many people would show up (no thanks to the 1100+ people who signed up for the pre-registration) and calculated the costs from there.
Tables were broken, chairs were broken, lights were blown, AC was blowing all day (even though it didnt seem like it) power costs were included and some other misc things that added up to a price that wasnt covered by the venue fee alone.
We decided to sell drinks and food at the venue to help with this, which helped a lot.
All in all, we weren't expecting to walk away with any money. The melee grand finals alone was COMPLETELY worth the whole ordeal of planning Genesis. That, THAT... is exactly why we decided to even hold Genesis.
The hype that comes with this game is more than enough incentive to run these kinds of tournaments for me.
After 10+ months of planning, and executing, we walked away with a little over 1,000 dollars. 400 of that went straight to my credit card for hosting the website we created for the tournament (forums). So we were left with 600. of that 600, another 200 went to King for the purchase of a projector screen, and we were left with roughly 400 dollars split between 3 people.
I couldn't care less. I wouldn't have cared if i got a dollar out of it. I guess we get labeled under that old school category of not giving a **** about making money off of it.
Sure making money would be great, but for us the memories that are forever etched into everyone's minds that attended Genesis is more than enough for us. The experience speaks for its self, and wanted everyone to feel like they just got through being a PART of one of our combo videos.
I don't know why i typed some of the stuff i did, but just wanted to give some insight on why we did what we did. Hope it helped someone.
p.s. Genesis 2 is going to ****ing ****.
First and foremost, the sole reason Germ, King and I decided to run Genesis, was to hold a tournament worthy of being labeled as the best tournament of all time.
It was for the community, and nothing more. We never set out to make a profit, at all.
As you know, DBR has a history of releasing hyped up combo videos that are pretty successful due to the way we approach it and having it as entertaining as possible. We approached Genesis the same way.
We wanted the attendees to feel the excitement and hype that our combo videos have brought in the past. Like Evolution did and basically shut down smashboards when it was released.
We had to bring it.
And we did.
Some people say that we only had brawl to make money off people, and to exploit them for our own gain.
It is true that we dont play brawl, and have quit playing it for some time now, but that doesnt mean we wouldnt include it in our line up. If we had just had melee, Genesis wouldnt have had the hype it did and would have been one of the best tournaments of all time. (toot toot)
Our prices were a little steep -- but -- they were steep for a reason.
We had no sponsors, we had no monetary help from others, we had no pre-reg payment system up (long story, **** paypal), and actually had to cut a lot of the things we had planned for the tournament due to not having money to run it.
The prices that were in place for entry to the events were fair imo. For a tournament of that scale, 15-20 dollars for teams/singles per person was what it should be.
The venue fee? It covered the venue cost, and nothing more. We attempted to estimate how many people would show up (no thanks to the 1100+ people who signed up for the pre-registration) and calculated the costs from there.
Tables were broken, chairs were broken, lights were blown, AC was blowing all day (even though it didnt seem like it) power costs were included and some other misc things that added up to a price that wasnt covered by the venue fee alone.
We decided to sell drinks and food at the venue to help with this, which helped a lot.
All in all, we weren't expecting to walk away with any money. The melee grand finals alone was COMPLETELY worth the whole ordeal of planning Genesis. That, THAT... is exactly why we decided to even hold Genesis.
The hype that comes with this game is more than enough incentive to run these kinds of tournaments for me.
After 10+ months of planning, and executing, we walked away with a little over 1,000 dollars. 400 of that went straight to my credit card for hosting the website we created for the tournament (forums). So we were left with 600. of that 600, another 200 went to King for the purchase of a projector screen, and we were left with roughly 400 dollars split between 3 people.
I couldn't care less. I wouldn't have cared if i got a dollar out of it. I guess we get labeled under that old school category of not giving a **** about making money off of it.
Sure making money would be great, but for us the memories that are forever etched into everyone's minds that attended Genesis is more than enough for us. The experience speaks for its self, and wanted everyone to feel like they just got through being a PART of one of our combo videos.
I don't know why i typed some of the stuff i did, but just wanted to give some insight on why we did what we did. Hope it helped someone.
p.s. Genesis 2 is going to ****ing ****.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
You know what this reminds me of?
For FAST1 my buddy Raistlin opened up his place for housing. His house is fairly large, but his family also...lives in it, so there really wasn't that much space. The night of everyone got to Raistlin's house, and I looked around and it seemed like it'd be really crowded.
And I just happened to have this empty house lying around (my parents were getting ready to rent it out). So you can see where this is going.
Mass transfer to big empty house YEAHYUZZ!! We played smash all night, we went to the ****in wallmart down the street and bought cereal and mandarin oranges, and had a great time.
Fun times
My point? There really isn't one here, it's just me remembering a really fun experience just housing a bunch of people that I had never met before.
lol
but florida isnt the same as ny
ny sucks and its hard to even have a place to smash most of the time
people dont understand that ny is ny
and everywhere else just isnt
its not even close to being the same
only place that can kinda relate is nj
and they dont have it that bad
but florida isnt the same as ny
ny sucks and its hard to even have a place to smash most of the time
people dont understand that ny is ny
and everywhere else just isnt
its not even close to being the same
only place that can kinda relate is nj
and they dont have it that bad
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Here's the way I am personally...If 50 smashers want to stay in my house and I can only house 35, then I'm calling everyone I know and asking them to house some friends of mine. That's just the way it is. No matter how many people need a place to stay or crash, if you're a Smasher I WILL find you housing. Bottom line. I have friends and a little bit of family within a 5 mile radius that I can talk to worst comes to worse, which is why I was surprised that everyone I tried to get a hold of from the time we left Rochester until we got to Nanuet couldn't house us.
That being said, it's all good though cuz we got a hotel, but also if anyone ever needs a place to stay in upstate, send me a PM and it's done. No questions asked. Smashers for life
That being said, it's all good though cuz we got a hotel, but also if anyone ever needs a place to stay in upstate, send me a PM and it's done. No questions asked. Smashers for life
Venom NY
Smash Lord
I feel you dawg
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
People who live IN FLORIDA had to travel over 4 hours to get to that tournament. Florida is ****ING HUGE.
But NY isn't the same as FL
FL sucks and it's hard to even get to a place to smash most of the time
people don't understand FL is FL
and everywhere else just isn't
it's not even close to being the same
only place that can kinda relate is TX
and they don't have it that bad
lol
Venom NY
Smash Lord
This thread feels like World War 3 to me =[
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You guys are lucky
You have scenes that care enough to *****
And actual tournaments
**** Toronto LOOOOOOOOL
You have scenes that care enough to *****
And actual tournaments
**** Toronto LOOOOOOOOL
Venom NY
Smash Lord
lololol sheik!
FalseFalco
Smash Master
Everything Sidefx said.
It's never okay to profit off of running a smash tournament. Cover your costs, the rest goes to the pot. It's simple really.
The only exception I can think of is for something like MLG where you can guarantee a large pot event after event no matter the attendance. In a case like that you have to keep the company rolling when nobody shows up.
It's never okay to profit off of running a smash tournament. Cover your costs, the rest goes to the pot. It's simple really.
The only exception I can think of is for something like MLG where you can guarantee a large pot event after event no matter the attendance. In a case like that you have to keep the company rolling when nobody shows up.
TheGoat
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2010
- Messages
- 584
That's stupid. Do you know how much work TOs go through to set up tournaments? They really need some incentive, as well as compensation for their work.
Now, if they are jipping the community? Sure, that makes me mad. TOs shouldnt be overcharging, but if they are just making some cash on the side, why not?
i dunno if its different on the east coast, but im gonna build off of something wife said. he was talking about how these days, the supply/demand has switched mostly to a bunch of smashers wanting more tournaments as opposed to TOs trying to get into the club of tourney hosters
i rarely make money from entering a tournament, and i pay to enter them. it makes no difference to me who gets the money, and if there were more tournaments available for me to enter because hosts were profiting from running them, i would be happy about it. if i had the choice between a tournament-for-profit and one that wasnt, i would choose the one that wasnt, but these days i know a lot of smashers who just want to play in tournaments and dont get to.
i would also like to address:
"it was originally supposed to be a monthly that turned into bashing mango and then sparked into a national. When that happened i almost had a nervous breakdown because i didn't even know how to begin with controlling that many people nor did i have the awesome huge venues alex and plank attain." - alukard
i went to the first rom because alukard made a post in tourney listings saying something like "hey ive been hosting monthlies at this place for a while, but i wanna try to make this one a bigger tourney and attract more people." granted, im sure he wasnt expecting 130, but its not like people just started wanting to come out of nowhere. also, i dont know exactly how it was at rom3, but i remember the first rom ran pretty late and the TOs specifically refused help; i was told i couldnt be near the TO table while the bracket was being made and that took like 2 hours alone
edit: perfect, i found the text from the OP for revival of melee:
"I Also Dont Need Help From Anyone That Is In The Tournament. Unless I Say Otherwise At The Venue. Also If I See U Near The Laptop And Touching It ... Instant Losers Bracket For Your ***. Because It Doesn't Help Me When I Get To The Laptop If Things Have Been Edited Without My Concern. I F*cking Mean It Too.
I Have One Request For Help ... Which Is Someone To Help Yell And Stuff. .COM NOW I NEED YOU N!GGA HAHAHAHAHA
Scar Is So Far The Only Person I Will Want To Receive Help From.
My GF Is Also Going To Be Helping With Taking Down The Win/loss From People, And Registration. Everything Else Will Be Done By Me. "
most nationals ive been to have had a combination of inefficiency by the TOs and the participants, pound 4 ran way, way behind schedule and i know at least one case of at least an hour going by while a player who had a bracket match hung out doing commentary and the like
i thought i was done, but that brings me to another point. its one thing for pools, but i gotta be honest, ive thought for a while now that the fact that we need people to call out matches is pathetic. if youre in the tournament, find out who you play next/what match youre waiting on. now we all know there are some people that dont even know hardly whats going on in tournaments and just play whoever people tell them to play (not gonna name any names). but really, the other guy cant just find out and say "hey i gotta play you"? even if that guy cant, his friend he came with cant say "hey you gotta play this guy"? its weak
i rarely make money from entering a tournament, and i pay to enter them. it makes no difference to me who gets the money, and if there were more tournaments available for me to enter because hosts were profiting from running them, i would be happy about it. if i had the choice between a tournament-for-profit and one that wasnt, i would choose the one that wasnt, but these days i know a lot of smashers who just want to play in tournaments and dont get to.
i would also like to address:
"it was originally supposed to be a monthly that turned into bashing mango and then sparked into a national. When that happened i almost had a nervous breakdown because i didn't even know how to begin with controlling that many people nor did i have the awesome huge venues alex and plank attain." - alukard
i went to the first rom because alukard made a post in tourney listings saying something like "hey ive been hosting monthlies at this place for a while, but i wanna try to make this one a bigger tourney and attract more people." granted, im sure he wasnt expecting 130, but its not like people just started wanting to come out of nowhere. also, i dont know exactly how it was at rom3, but i remember the first rom ran pretty late and the TOs specifically refused help; i was told i couldnt be near the TO table while the bracket was being made and that took like 2 hours alone
edit: perfect, i found the text from the OP for revival of melee:
"I Also Dont Need Help From Anyone That Is In The Tournament. Unless I Say Otherwise At The Venue. Also If I See U Near The Laptop And Touching It ... Instant Losers Bracket For Your ***. Because It Doesn't Help Me When I Get To The Laptop If Things Have Been Edited Without My Concern. I F*cking Mean It Too.
I Have One Request For Help ... Which Is Someone To Help Yell And Stuff. .COM NOW I NEED YOU N!GGA HAHAHAHAHA
Scar Is So Far The Only Person I Will Want To Receive Help From.
My GF Is Also Going To Be Helping With Taking Down The Win/loss From People, And Registration. Everything Else Will Be Done By Me. "
most nationals ive been to have had a combination of inefficiency by the TOs and the participants, pound 4 ran way, way behind schedule and i know at least one case of at least an hour going by while a player who had a bracket match hung out doing commentary and the like
i thought i was done, but that brings me to another point. its one thing for pools, but i gotta be honest, ive thought for a while now that the fact that we need people to call out matches is pathetic. if youre in the tournament, find out who you play next/what match youre waiting on. now we all know there are some people that dont even know hardly whats going on in tournaments and just play whoever people tell them to play (not gonna name any names). but really, the other guy cant just find out and say "hey i gotta play you"? even if that guy cant, his friend he came with cant say "hey you gotta play this guy"? its weak
Big_R
Smash Champion
There aren't a ton of tournaments. People accept what they can get. I have had the experience of attending FC-10, the best tournament I've been to and from what I hear the best tourny series ever. I don't have the time and patience to travel for tournies that are run bad. Most people aren't this way and continue to travel to them. I would bet newer kids are more likely to take this stance though so I would try to make your tournament the best possible. Run it well. No one is perfect but there is always room for improvement.
I don't think the numbers game has necessarily gone down. We had the largest numbers tourny of all time with Pound 4. Run better tournaments. Raise the standard. Give people a reason to join and maybe retired people a reason to come back. A lot of this could be solved with money, but there is a ton you can do with resourcefulness. Which brings me to this Toywiz place.
If a venue has a money grubbing owner, find a new venue. In this economy I'm sure you could find a place who would be willing to rent out a large room for a fair price. Churches, schools, things like that.
I feel tournies used to have a sense of pride in competition in the actual hosting of them. You go to tournies based on rep and they grow because of it. They had a lot of bad people too. Which signified more newer players. There's no way to tell if it was the fact that tournies tended to be ran a bit better back in the day, but what't the worst that could happen if you try it out.
Hax said he thinks society is deteriorating, but I don't think this is quite true. In my experience if you put good in you can get good out. If you go in pessimistic you are going get what you expect, which is obviously going to be negative. If people worked half as hard at hosting tournies as they do at getting better at the game we would probably be sponsered by mlg or some type of company.
I don't think the numbers game has necessarily gone down. We had the largest numbers tourny of all time with Pound 4. Run better tournaments. Raise the standard. Give people a reason to join and maybe retired people a reason to come back. A lot of this could be solved with money, but there is a ton you can do with resourcefulness. Which brings me to this Toywiz place.
If a venue has a money grubbing owner, find a new venue. In this economy I'm sure you could find a place who would be willing to rent out a large room for a fair price. Churches, schools, things like that.
I feel tournies used to have a sense of pride in competition in the actual hosting of them. You go to tournies based on rep and they grow because of it. They had a lot of bad people too. Which signified more newer players. There's no way to tell if it was the fact that tournies tended to be ran a bit better back in the day, but what't the worst that could happen if you try it out.
Hax said he thinks society is deteriorating, but I don't think this is quite true. In my experience if you put good in you can get good out. If you go in pessimistic you are going get what you expect, which is obviously going to be negative. If people worked half as hard at hosting tournies as they do at getting better at the game we would probably be sponsered by mlg or some type of company.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Agreeing to everything Big_R said.
Agreed with BIG R and BIG D they are both amazing. I think that things would be better if TO's put more work in as well, honestly i think i am the only TO who puts in the amount of work that i do (since FC, you are right, those tournaments were amazingggg)
I am going to try and get Pound 5 done much more quickly, although it is my last tournament hopefully people will follow in my footsteps. I am always strict with DQ's and getting **** done on time, but one thing you all have to realize is the position it puts a TO in.
I HATE dq'ing people but just because I don't hesitate to do it I immediately get a NEGATIVE reputation about "not caring about the community" or people traveling when in reality it is the total opposite.
BigR i wish i would've known about a situation where someone who had a match was just doing commentary. The problem a lot of the time with TO's is that if something isn't brought to our attention, we CAN'T do anything about it.
Players should be responsible for themselves in tournaments, but in this community that is not the way it works out. People don't check for their own matches, they don't report their matches, they don't even try to find the players they have to play.
They don't stay at their pool stations and they leave all of the time to go get food/smoke/WHATEVER they could've done at pretty much any other point.
I am all for trying to get things done quicker and more efficiently, but the TO's really need a little more help from this community. Basically we have 500 players and WE have to be the responsible ones for them, all the meanwhile dealing with people complaining about DQ'ing and a whole different group of people complaining about the tournament running long.
It's hard to be pulled in 10 different directions and then have people making you feel like **** because you could only stretch 9 ways.
I am going to try and get Pound 5 done much more quickly, although it is my last tournament hopefully people will follow in my footsteps. I am always strict with DQ's and getting **** done on time, but one thing you all have to realize is the position it puts a TO in.
I HATE dq'ing people but just because I don't hesitate to do it I immediately get a NEGATIVE reputation about "not caring about the community" or people traveling when in reality it is the total opposite.
BigR i wish i would've known about a situation where someone who had a match was just doing commentary. The problem a lot of the time with TO's is that if something isn't brought to our attention, we CAN'T do anything about it.
Players should be responsible for themselves in tournaments, but in this community that is not the way it works out. People don't check for their own matches, they don't report their matches, they don't even try to find the players they have to play.
They don't stay at their pool stations and they leave all of the time to go get food/smoke/WHATEVER they could've done at pretty much any other point.
I am all for trying to get things done quicker and more efficiently, but the TO's really need a little more help from this community. Basically we have 500 players and WE have to be the responsible ones for them, all the meanwhile dealing with people complaining about DQ'ing and a whole different group of people complaining about the tournament running long.
It's hard to be pulled in 10 different directions and then have people making you feel like **** because you could only stretch 9 ways.
MT_
Smash Ace
Yes we do.
People don't understand for every minute they are late to their match, that is a minute they have delayed every single person in the venue in terms of finishing the tournament. It also has a domino effect on the section of the bracket that the late player is in, which will eventually effect the entire tournament as other matches start to have to wait for the results of the delayed match. Frankly any match being delayed longer than 5, at MOST 10 minutes should result in a DQ. Delayed as in one opponent is there, and the other opponent is not there (which is unfair to the player who showed up on time).
If more players understood just how easily a tournament can get delayed we might see less DQs. Huge tournament delays can be caused in two scenarios:
1. A single player being 10, 20, 30 minutes late to their match (a good TO should DQ them way before it gets to 20 minutes, but I digress).
2. Multiple players consistently being 5-10 minutes late for each match (which means you lose 10 minutes every round, and in a large bracket that can equate to 2+ hours of delays by the end of the tournament, if not more).
If more players understood just how easily a tournament can get delayed we might see less DQs. Huge tournament delays can be caused in two scenarios:
1. A single player being 10, 20, 30 minutes late to their match (a good TO should DQ them way before it gets to 20 minutes, but I digress).
2. Multiple players consistently being 5-10 minutes late for each match (which means you lose 10 minutes every round, and in a large bracket that can equate to 2+ hours of delays by the end of the tournament, if not more).
hey plank and other TO's that are used to the job.
i think no matter how hard some TO's try to plan out smash tourneys, things will obviously go wrong. I think the main problem is that the same mistakes are made over and over.
I feel the solution to this is kind of laborious and even a little boring, but from my experience as a club leader in college, you need to do planners and reports. This way if the whole community knew every step you took to plan an event and the pluses and deltas of the event, old veterans of TO'ing and even newcomers who want to plan tourneys will have an idea of what needs to go into it.
I can send you guys two word documents with one asking for details on how you plan to run your event and the other asking for how your event went, turnout, pluses and deltas, etc.
btw. I'm a nobody haha.
Just an idea
i think no matter how hard some TO's try to plan out smash tourneys, things will obviously go wrong. I think the main problem is that the same mistakes are made over and over.
I feel the solution to this is kind of laborious and even a little boring, but from my experience as a club leader in college, you need to do planners and reports. This way if the whole community knew every step you took to plan an event and the pluses and deltas of the event, old veterans of TO'ing and even newcomers who want to plan tourneys will have an idea of what needs to go into it.
I can send you guys two word documents with one asking for details on how you plan to run your event and the other asking for how your event went, turnout, pluses and deltas, etc.
btw. I'm a nobody haha.
Just an idea
LLDL
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2007
- Messages
- 7,128
Laijin, Revival of Melee 3 was $20 venue because it was $10 per day, per person. I see nothing unreasonable about that.
I also believe that all the venue fee goes to the venue owner.
I can't speak on the behalf of the Toy Wiz owner, or for Alukard, but generally If I were renting out my own store for someone to host a 2 day tournament, I'd make the $20 venue per person. I would expect the tournament host that I am renting out to, to give me the venue fee of everyone that paid, not just a set $1000 price. What if 500 people came? We don't know that. In another instance, even if it were a set $1000 venue price, what it 300 people came? There would still be venue fee that would be unaccounted for because there is over 100 entrants to cover the venue costs at $10 per person. , I would want that money if I were the store owner. The tournament host wouldn't profit from it, he would give it to me either way. That's generally what venue fee is for lol.
There is no fishy business going on, just looking into it too much lol.
I also believe that all the venue fee goes to the venue owner.
I can't speak on the behalf of the Toy Wiz owner, or for Alukard, but generally If I were renting out my own store for someone to host a 2 day tournament, I'd make the $20 venue per person. I would expect the tournament host that I am renting out to, to give me the venue fee of everyone that paid, not just a set $1000 price. What if 500 people came? We don't know that. In another instance, even if it were a set $1000 venue price, what it 300 people came? There would still be venue fee that would be unaccounted for because there is over 100 entrants to cover the venue costs at $10 per person. , I would want that money if I were the store owner. The tournament host wouldn't profit from it, he would give it to me either way. That's generally what venue fee is for lol.
There is no fishy business going on, just looking into it too much lol.
sidefx
Smash Champion
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
this statement is in fact the MAIN reason genesis was delayed beyond its projected time schedule.
i was way too lenient and nice.
next time.. f that. were already setting up a plan specifically for getting people there on time, and notified for a match in a timely fashion, as well as dishing out DQ's without remorse. very strict and very needed.
po pimpus
Smash Ace
Yo, I just read through this thing, and after seeing some familiar names (Hazygoose! Wife! Plank! SideFX! Love you mofos), and new ones post up, I feel I should add my perspective as someone who had to LITERALLY build his community from the ground up...
I've been smashing competitively since '03. Joined the forums in April of '04. When I started, Oklahoma HAD NO COMMUNITY. It was me, my cousin, and my best friend. We were the Oklahoma smash scene. We had to travel to friggin' Texas to play any real comp. That's right, every few months, we would scrape up our money, drive for three or more hours, pay for gas/hotel (we were too polite/didn't know anyone to ask for housing... my how times have changed, lol) and LOSE. Yeah, we weren't in it for the money. Hell, we STILL aren't. We did this for about three years, until we found a small group of dedicated players here at home.
In order to bring us all together, I decided to run a tourney here locally. I had no idea how to run things. It sucked. I'm surprised we even still have a community after that disaster, lol. I LOST money... but I didn't care. Why didn't I care about that badly run crap of a tourney? BECAUSE I HAD FUN. Because I wasn't in it to make a profit-- I did it to help my local scene grow. I did it for the love I had for this game and it's community. The thrill of competing against people better than myself.
I did it because I love the fight.
I wanted to play. Tournaments and the community they serve allow me to do just that--Play an almost endless array of players and their unique playstyles and characters.
Let me run that back:
Tournaments and the community they serve. TOURNAMENTS. SERVE. THE COMMUNITY.
However, we, as a community, have a responsibility to be gracious to our TO hosts. That means:
1. Being responsible: Playing your pools/bracket matches ON TIME and reporting the results to the TO or Pool Leader immediately. Not after you get a drink, or run to Taco Bell, but RIGHT AFTER THE ANNOUNCER SAYS "GAME!"
2. Having some modicum of respect, both for yourself and for others: If someone has put you up in their place, be man(or woman) enough to not trash the place/steal/**** up the bathroom/clean up after yourself. Good lord, the way some of you treat housing, I would hate to see your dorms/apartments/etc.
That also means: WASH YOUR **** FACE AND BODY! I'll be ****ed if I have some stinky ***** funking up my house.
3. Treat the venue as you would your own home. No, scratch that. Treat it BETTER than that: You have no idea what kinds of trouble/soul selling the TO may have had to go through to get ahold of that venue. So let's try to make sure we can use it again if we want to, okay? That means not leaving empty bottles and old fast food bags lying around. They're called trash cans. USE THEM.
4. Respect the TO and his/her staff: Above everything else, this is probably the single most important thing I can stress. These people are working their ***** off to provide you a place to play and an event to test your skills. DON'T BE AN ******* TO THEM! Stop playing friendlies during tournament(including 99 stock stupid stuff), stop disappearing when it's time to play your match, and quit being lazy slugs and take a proactive approach to being a competitor.
I could go on about this for a decade, but the fact of the matter is this community NEEDS people to step it up-- TO's, Big name players, No name players, People who house, people who are being housed... We need to stop taking things for granted and to stop being so selfish. This community used to be an amazing thing... I was proud to be identified with it, and for the most part, I still am. But if we keep acting like petulant childeren, there won't be a community worth having.
I personally don't care if you as a TO profit from your efforts... but it should be a secondary concern behind making sure the community's needs are met.
Which means people need to have a good time. You know, FUN? That thing we used to have back in the old days when people were driving around with a TV and Gamecube in the back of their car, looking for a place to play...
I've been smashing competitively since '03. Joined the forums in April of '04. When I started, Oklahoma HAD NO COMMUNITY. It was me, my cousin, and my best friend. We were the Oklahoma smash scene. We had to travel to friggin' Texas to play any real comp. That's right, every few months, we would scrape up our money, drive for three or more hours, pay for gas/hotel (we were too polite/didn't know anyone to ask for housing... my how times have changed, lol) and LOSE. Yeah, we weren't in it for the money. Hell, we STILL aren't. We did this for about three years, until we found a small group of dedicated players here at home.
In order to bring us all together, I decided to run a tourney here locally. I had no idea how to run things. It sucked. I'm surprised we even still have a community after that disaster, lol. I LOST money... but I didn't care. Why didn't I care about that badly run crap of a tourney? BECAUSE I HAD FUN. Because I wasn't in it to make a profit-- I did it to help my local scene grow. I did it for the love I had for this game and it's community. The thrill of competing against people better than myself.
I did it because I love the fight.
I wanted to play. Tournaments and the community they serve allow me to do just that--Play an almost endless array of players and their unique playstyles and characters.
Let me run that back:
Tournaments and the community they serve. TOURNAMENTS. SERVE. THE COMMUNITY.
However, we, as a community, have a responsibility to be gracious to our TO hosts. That means:
1. Being responsible: Playing your pools/bracket matches ON TIME and reporting the results to the TO or Pool Leader immediately. Not after you get a drink, or run to Taco Bell, but RIGHT AFTER THE ANNOUNCER SAYS "GAME!"
2. Having some modicum of respect, both for yourself and for others: If someone has put you up in their place, be man(or woman) enough to not trash the place/steal/**** up the bathroom/clean up after yourself. Good lord, the way some of you treat housing, I would hate to see your dorms/apartments/etc.
That also means: WASH YOUR **** FACE AND BODY! I'll be ****ed if I have some stinky ***** funking up my house.
3. Treat the venue as you would your own home. No, scratch that. Treat it BETTER than that: You have no idea what kinds of trouble/soul selling the TO may have had to go through to get ahold of that venue. So let's try to make sure we can use it again if we want to, okay? That means not leaving empty bottles and old fast food bags lying around. They're called trash cans. USE THEM.
4. Respect the TO and his/her staff: Above everything else, this is probably the single most important thing I can stress. These people are working their ***** off to provide you a place to play and an event to test your skills. DON'T BE AN ******* TO THEM! Stop playing friendlies during tournament(including 99 stock stupid stuff), stop disappearing when it's time to play your match, and quit being lazy slugs and take a proactive approach to being a competitor.
I could go on about this for a decade, but the fact of the matter is this community NEEDS people to step it up-- TO's, Big name players, No name players, People who house, people who are being housed... We need to stop taking things for granted and to stop being so selfish. This community used to be an amazing thing... I was proud to be identified with it, and for the most part, I still am. But if we keep acting like petulant childeren, there won't be a community worth having.
I personally don't care if you as a TO profit from your efforts... but it should be a secondary concern behind making sure the community's needs are met.
Which means people need to have a good time. You know, FUN? That thing we used to have back in the old days when people were driving around with a TV and Gamecube in the back of their car, looking for a place to play...
TheGoat
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2010
- Messages
- 584
Looks like some good posts recently.
There needs to be communication, the TOs need to make it clear to the players, maybe on swf, that no **** is going to be tolerated. If you are going to be late, call ahead of time. Don't ****ing trash the place, it's embarrassing to see people that can't clean up after themselves.
Nevertheless its important to keep in mind people dont always arrive late on purpose, uncontrollable events can show up, or some people are just new to the tournament system and don't know what is going on.
Still, that is the reason why communication between the TOs and the rest of the community is a must.
And here is an old quote I dug up:
"About some smash tournie goers..
They want the venue to be clean, but unwilling to pick up after ourselves.
They want the tournament to be in order and ran smoothly, but unwilling to cooperate and listen."
There needs to be communication, the TOs need to make it clear to the players, maybe on swf, that no **** is going to be tolerated. If you are going to be late, call ahead of time. Don't ****ing trash the place, it's embarrassing to see people that can't clean up after themselves.
Nevertheless its important to keep in mind people dont always arrive late on purpose, uncontrollable events can show up, or some people are just new to the tournament system and don't know what is going on.
Still, that is the reason why communication between the TOs and the rest of the community is a must.
And here is an old quote I dug up:
"About some smash tournie goers..
They want the venue to be clean, but unwilling to pick up after ourselves.
They want the tournament to be in order and ran smoothly, but unwilling to cooperate and listen."
I don't believe that the TO should profit from a venue fee.
It should go to something to help run the tourney or something to have the players more comfortable. Like the venue fee pays for pizza to be ordered.
But on the flip side if people do profit from the venue fee, I don't think that it should be a large amount. Maybe like a dollar out of every pay. And the rest gets put into the idea above.
I just see it as a unethical thing.
It should go to something to help run the tourney or something to have the players more comfortable. Like the venue fee pays for pizza to be ordered.
But on the flip side if people do profit from the venue fee, I don't think that it should be a large amount. Maybe like a dollar out of every pay. And the rest gets put into the idea above.
I just see it as a unethical thing.
clowsui
Smash Legend
i think neal and his planning for SCC was pretty much what every top level TO should be doing
he doesn't have the pdf any more
but it was an incredible document, 25 pages long detailing exactly what he was going to do, exactly what his staff was going to do, how the venue was going to be organized, what kinds of events should be happening at what times and as a result he ended six hours early overall, even with some minor choke factors like pool issues
he doesn't have the pdf any more
but it was an incredible document, 25 pages long detailing exactly what he was going to do, exactly what his staff was going to do, how the venue was going to be organized, what kinds of events should be happening at what times and as a result he ended six hours early overall, even with some minor choke factors like pool issues
metalreflectslime
Chemistry PhD Programs?
I didn't join the Melee tournament scene until May 2009. Was the $20000 just from OC 3 or from all of the tournaments Manacloud ran?
Laijin
Smash Hero
Not sure. Gotta find out from Plank. haha
How is it unethical to get paid for doing a job? It's work you know? A lot of work.
Just FYI, profit of a tournament 99% of the time wont be know until after. Venue expenses, prize money, etc all comes after the tournament.
If people would register over the months registration is open I would agree with you, but being that everybody always registers last month it's unfair to say that.
It's very hard to budget for what you are going to spend when you have no idea how many entrants/people you will have in the venue.
For instance, last year 1 month before we had like 80 entrants so i was weary about buying equipment. Then we end up with 500 more entrants in 1 month and I have 1 month to scurry around and try to figure things out.
People could say "well you can just start buying equipment and assume it will work out" but that's a lot easier to say when YOUR *** isnt on the line for the rest of your life because of some lame contract.
Like i've been saying all along, I've been doing everything I can but it is a 2 way street. Right now with P5 there are so many A/V things im interested in that the hotel provides but i cant afford ANY of them, at least until ppl get on their **** and register =[
Reason being?
sidefx
Smash Champion
i dont see any problem with TO's making money off tournaments.
people are different, and have different values, but making money off of tournaments isnt a bad thing imo.
like g-reg said earlier, as long as certain specific requirements are met for the tournament, and not half-*****, and actually spent TIME planning for it, then i see no problem with making some money out of it.
its just that we personally didnt run genesis to make money. and thats just my personal stance on it.
the only wrong thing about making money off tournaments, is if the person clearly leeches off the community, and is selfish about it. and doing the minimum amount of work required to run the tournament. then... theres a problem.
people are different, and have different values, but making money off of tournaments isnt a bad thing imo.
like g-reg said earlier, as long as certain specific requirements are met for the tournament, and not half-*****, and actually spent TIME planning for it, then i see no problem with making some money out of it.
its just that we personally didnt run genesis to make money. and thats just my personal stance on it.
the only wrong thing about making money off tournaments, is if the person clearly leeches off the community, and is selfish about it. and doing the minimum amount of work required to run the tournament. then... theres a problem.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Who the **** cares if they get money or not, you're there to play in the tournament not worry about taht
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
^ Pretty much my stance on the issue.
Still ... I don't like venue mongering weasels. The profit should be reasonable.
Still ... I don't like venue mongering weasels. The profit should be reasonable.
forward
Smash Champion
I remember Moast 3 was my first national tournament and that one was run very well. Free housing, large venue, a hype finals room (not to mention some of the greatest finals ever), and an organized method of running the tournament that I have not seen since.
When they called people out over the loud speaker, the players would meet up at the table where the bracket was being run and be given a score card that directed them to a TV. The players played, recorded the score of the match, and it was the winner's job to return that score card to the table. I don't recall any other tournament using this method and from what I remember it worked very well. I wasn't TO though so maybe from their perspective it wasn't that great.
Tournament quality is random IMO. I've been to tournaments that were hyped up and ended up lame and I've been to unhyped tournaments that turned out to be amazing. The advice I would give is learn what T.O's you like and if you plan to make a few trips for tourneys then hit up those guys.
A lot of people have been saying that the community is deteriorating but perhaps it is getting too large and people are taking advantage of that. If someone knows that a ****ty tournament could still bring in lots of players and make a profit then what's to stop them from doing it? Maybe people need to be more selective about the tournaments they choose to attend and that would stop feeding power to the bad T.Os.
When they called people out over the loud speaker, the players would meet up at the table where the bracket was being run and be given a score card that directed them to a TV. The players played, recorded the score of the match, and it was the winner's job to return that score card to the table. I don't recall any other tournament using this method and from what I remember it worked very well. I wasn't TO though so maybe from their perspective it wasn't that great.
Tournament quality is random IMO. I've been to tournaments that were hyped up and ended up lame and I've been to unhyped tournaments that turned out to be amazing. The advice I would give is learn what T.O's you like and if you plan to make a few trips for tourneys then hit up those guys.
A lot of people have been saying that the community is deteriorating but perhaps it is getting too large and people are taking advantage of that. If someone knows that a ****ty tournament could still bring in lots of players and make a profit then what's to stop them from doing it? Maybe people need to be more selective about the tournaments they choose to attend and that would stop feeding power to the bad T.Os.