The role of dashdancing.
So I have been thinking alot about this, and I've been missing alot of punishes because i just randomly sh, or dd in front of them but can we talk about the role of dash dancing? Currently, this is how I use (or at least think about) dd.
1. spacing at neutral: helps falco to maintain a distance from the other character he is comfortable with.
2. baiting stuff when they are shielding, prone, near the ledge. I think dd can often scare people into doing something falco can punish, (i.e. falcon is near the ledge, u can get him to nair oos, or fj then hit him blah blah)
I mean, falco is about as quick as danny devito when it comes to dd though, so I think it's also pretty important to mix in lasers, to help stuff approaches cos u can't always run away. I think my ideas about DD make sense to me at least when I try to articulate them in my notebook//here.
But lookit, when I dd in front of a prone or shielding player they can OFTEN reset just by rolling away, how does falco safely hit that? I think part of it is I'm overrespecting the get up attack//oos aerials wayyy tooo much, therefore not DD close enough.
Ahhhh, dash dancing. Absolutely LOVE this mechanic. It's so versatile and is a big part of the reason movement is big in Melee.
DD'ing isn't usually meant to be used as a main strategy for any character without a solid run speed(Fox/Falcon/Pikachu/Marth to an extent). This is because initial dash speeds and dash speeds and options out of a dash are somewhat slow/bad(Falco not having uptilt to beat approaches can be troublesome at times, in addition to his already slower run speed, for example). However, this does not mean that DD'ing cannot achieve relatively similar results when used correctly/moderately.
DD'ing feints approaches(dashing forward), baits(the dash backward), conditions(how many times and length you DD in addition to the other things), sets up pivots(kind of a hybrid thing lol), and allows one to "wall" with movement so to speak. This "wall" is one in which you can observe your opponent from(given appropriate spacing and reaction time/focus).
For Falco, DD'ing sets up his Bair well to counter approaches, but it also adds a layer of depth into his laser game(feinting approaches and allowing Falco to adjust for spacing[can be couple with that shield stop trick]). Also decent for positioning to FH/edgeguard I've found in my experience.
People lock up close to the edge vs Falco, so grab/hit them first before DD'ing. DD'ing is better once conditioning is in place. You have to observe whether they already respect your options by the edge or not. If they don't and try to get away, then whack them don't DD LOL(you can wait but then you've lost some control of the situation probably and it's better to control the opponent at times....especially by the edge though I'd say).
DD'ing at neutral is kinda funny because no one knows wtf he's doing not shooting lasers, but generally you don't need to do that unless you think you can DD in such a way to counter approaches/start up a surprise approach effectively.
Hope that answers your question! =)
pp should come to impulse, that is all im here to say.
May have a thing to say about my travel plans soon
Almost all the good characters can do something with their dash dance.
The only difference is that Fox, Falcon, and Marth can kind of spam theirs as a main strategy whereas the others usually use it as some kind of supplementary thing (which really just means they can spam it, but they have to spam other stuff too in order to make it work).
copycat =(
The more I play Falco the less I seem to laser. Not spamming lasers and abusing his DD was definitely a huge epiphany.
Seems like you have to sorta keep a balance based on the opponent's behavior. Often it seems that when the opponent is respecting lasers is the best time not to shoot them and to either CC some awkward approach or DD and outspace stuff. And when people are not respecting lasers, like if a Marth is trying to dash away pivot grab you or fox is just dropping down with wavelands or weird stuff in front of you is the best time to overshoot a laser approach or laser grab respectively.
Do I have the right idea?
Shooting more counters disrespect of lasers and shooting less counters respecting them. I personally found myself able to focus less on a match the more I wanted to shoot anyway, so taking time to observe instead of shoot is beneficial anyway.
If you wanna shoot a lot and be successful it may be helpful to plan out your laser tactics in advance to some degree so you can devote as much attention to your opponent as possible.
Shiz and Chops even slow it down on lasers a lot but that's not what people usually think of when they think of those guys haha.
If they're respecting lasers then they're probably shielding, platforming, full jumping, etc. So yeah you can just out-move them at that point because those options don't really afford most characters as flexible movement as ground-based shenaniganry. At least that's how it seems in my experience.
STOP IT
I've thought for a long time that lasering is actually the biggest weakness in falco's game.
Lets look at a few things about lasering:
- when you're lasering, the only thing to protect you is the laser itself. everything that happens before, and after lasering leaves you completely vulnerable
- you can't CC while lasering
-you can't shield while lasering
- you can't dashdance/move unpredictably while lasering. Once you leae the ground on sh, you are moving in a predictable direction for a predictable duration
- you are vulnerable to powersheilding due to its predictability
- lasers have incredibly low stun and the opponent can move almost immediately. even moreso if they CC the laser
- you are vulnerable to tricksies (or luck) of your opponent moving over or under the laser and you can't do anything to stop them/save yourself if the laser itself misses
Anyway, its obvious that lasering has many benefits too. But, generally speaking, I think lasering lowers falco to his most vulnerable point....ever.
so yea, I don't shoot many either :/
shielding is more vulnerable imo(he can't even have a laser out and probably can't threaten with it then lol)....but if you mean from a true neutral position then possibly I suppose(then wtf is a true neutral position because wouldn't that be safe etc etc WTF am I even saying anymore LOL).
Falco is a glass cannon for reasons such as what you listed haha. Just gotta cover that hole up as much as possible. Lasering when the opponent isn't close enough to usually **** you for PS'ing(unless they hard read) or when you have momentum/CC on landing spacing or such things then it can help to alleviate those problems. You can't truly remove the holes, but you should minimize their influences as much as possible(more of a general than to you thing at this point lol my bad).
Very interested in how the metagame will handle these flaws in the future tbh. I want to see if Falco can still keep up despite people learning to fully abuse his weaknesses(which I don't think they totally do atm). It would be cool if I could continue playing him in such a way that people see him as "broken" though. I think that'd be an interesting challenge. hm yeah I like that.
grab a **** load
dash dance a lot in front of them so they are afraid of getting grabbed afterwards to produce reactions
doesn't work on n00bs though (sometimes)
Very basic but staple mixup I planned on returning to. Shiz gets so many laser running grabs that I think I should be able to get more of them(also straight running grabs especially, aka old chops kinda stuff like walk up grab lol).
Grabs **** and I hope to work more on them. =)
started keeping up with this thread, picked up falco and melee in mid-summer, thanks to my friend StabbedbyHippie <3
will keep up with this thread more in the future tho, thanks to Dr PP and the falco community for the interesting reads hope to see more soon! =].
ps stab, if you ever read this, just know that ily.
whoaaaaa you played brawl marth after me too. SUP
on the top platform of yoshis,
if you run and sh right at the end of the platform, you can automatically edgecancel an aerial on the side platform.
...
You can do this kinda thing on most/all of the platformed stages iirc but it may be harder to do on some stages than others. Thanks for sharing though. =)
LMAO awesome.
What do you guys think about the Marth/Falco match-up? I know this is an ongoing debate, just wondering what the Falco boards think in general. Personally I think that Marth has a slight advantage
I think Marth wins. Range advantage(and sort of hitbox advantage in the way he swings affecting Falco's weak spots very harshly), horizontal mobility advantage, consistent CG and high edgeguard/gimp potential are HUGE for him in this matchup. They both combo each other very well and Falco edgeguards Marth very solidly too(maybe not quite as well as vice versa but I'm also kinda bad at edgeguarding Marth/everyone imo so that may not be worth much lol). Falco's shield pressure game on Marth is better than on other top tiers as well I think so that's worth something(but Marth has answers Leffen covered in the Marth thread I can go over which make pressure quite difficult).
Exposing SWF for being fake should never be discouraged, really.
Falco vs Marth is really weird I hate it on both sides lol.
^how I felt playing the matchup for a long time LOL. I'd really like to play the matchup a TON from a Marth perspective and learn it though. I actually don't have much vs Falco experience and get by in the ditto by being funky and stealing Mango stuff so I'm hoping I can get a lot of experience to explain exactly what's going on there eventually lol.
i have a question about something i run into sometimes in the marth falco matchup as falco
when im back to back with marth and hes in his shield and i whiff a shine i will usually short hop turn around and try to laser him or try to ac(fadeaway) bair him in the head and every now and again he will wd oos and fsmash me in the face. what should i do instead of doing what i usually do? im thinking a wave shine away will save me from getting chopped in half. but before i try doing that i would like to hear from someone who has tried this already.
I'd just WD OOS away lmao but I guess you could waveshine away OOS. Depends on conditioning/the player/the stage/%/shenanigans to some extent also.
