PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[KirbyKaze]

If they're respecting lasers then they're probably shielding, platforming, full jumping, etc. So yeah you can just out-move them at that point because those options don't really afford most characters as flexible movement as ground-based shenaniganry. At least that's how it seems in my experience.

 

[JPOBS]

The more I play Falco the less I seem to laser. Not spamming lasers and abusing his DD was definitely a huge epiphany.

Seems like you have to sorta keep a balance based on the opponent's behavior. Often it seems that when the opponent is respecting lasers is the best time not to shoot them and to either CC some awkward approach or DD and outspace stuff. And when people are not respecting lasers, like if a Marth is trying to dash away pivot grab you or fox is just dropping down with wavelands or weird stuff in front of you is the best time to overshoot a laser approach or laser grab respectively.

Do I have the right idea?

I've thought for a long time that lasering is actually the biggest weakness in falco's game.

Lets look at a few things about lasering:

- when you're lasering, the only thing to protect you is the laser itself. everything that happens before, and after lasering leaves you completely vulnerable
- you can't CC while lasering
-you can't shield while lasering
- you can't dashdance/move unpredictably while lasering. Once you leae the ground on sh, you are moving in a predictable direction for a predictable duration
- you are vulnerable to powersheilding due to its predictability
- lasers have incredibly low stun and the opponent can move almost immediately. even moreso if they CC the laser
- you are vulnerable to tricksies (or luck) of your opponent moving over or under the laser and you can't do anything to stop them/save yourself if the laser itself misses

Anyway, its obvious that lasering has many benefits too. But, generally speaking, I think lasering lowers falco to his most vulnerable point....ever.

so yea, I don't shoot many either :/

 

[Lightsyde]

The more I play Falco the less I seem to laser. Not spamming lasers and abusing his DD was definitely a huge epiphany.

Seems like you have to sorta keep a balance based on the opponent's behavior. Often it seems that when the opponent is respecting lasers is the best time not to shoot them and to either CC some awkward approach or DD and outspace stuff. And when people are not respecting lasers, like if a Marth is trying to dash away pivot grab you or fox is just dropping down with wavelands or weird stuff in front of you is the best time to overshoot a laser approach or laser grab respectively.

Do I have the right idea?

This definitely happened for me the longer I messed with him too.

I think so much of being effective with Falco is realizing how many ways/styles/timings there are to play him and using multiple ones. I feel like the newer your Falco is the more dependent it is on lasers because you haven't yet really learned to move with him super well so it seems like his overall movement is ***...which it kinda is until you understand how to abuse FH and wavelands.

His movement lets him manipulate into such good positions so quickly. Like you noticed, if they are doing the right things vs lasers, you're going to have a really hard time getting in by spamming them with more lasers. haha As a Marth main, I'm sure you understand first hand how beautiful a sight it is to see a Falco shoot one laser too high and then (as Marth) get to slip a dash attack in and combo them to death for it.

Basically, you just need to be able to **** them hard with or without the lasers and then react mid match and choose what the best way to do that is. If they aren't paying attention, stack the laser damage til you get a better position or they catch on. If they are paying attention, move to somewhere they don't expect or don't have a good option and then abuse it. You have to make it as impossible as you can for them to adapt to your mix ups because your mixing styles/timings, not just aerials/lasers.

/ramble

Also, long laser Ftilts combos are ****. That is all.

 

[Mahone]

I've thought for a long time that lasering is actually the biggest weakness in falco's game.

LOL WUT...

I agree theyre overrated, but come on now, lets not go crazy

 

[Bones0]

STFU Mahone, you can't even FF lasers properly.

Lasers are overrated, but they certainly aren't bad unless you are bad with them. Let's not get crazy.

 

[Mahone]

Dair is falco's worst move...

It has no range, so when i try to hit marth dding its SO easy to get grabbed...

It doesnt kill off the top until like 225%

If you do it early on sheilds u get grabbed...

Oh wait, maybe in certain situations its godlike... JUST LIKE LASERS

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

laser shield pivot then either bair or repeat laser shield pivot

godlike

 

[Lightsyde]

Oh yeah, they definitely aren't bad at all. I was only saying it's hard to make a full game plan out of abusing them. Chops used them supremely well but played too aggressive often and his later tourney results suffered some for it. Mathos is like the polar opposite but that kind of spam didn't work after a while either. I think Kevin's old more evasive Bair campy laser style was really effective (especially vs Fox) but he definitely shoots a lot less lasers than he used to as well.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Chopz killing himself every other stock was the bigger hindrance to his success than his laser count.

 

[Niko45]

Lasers are amazing offensively, and at certain spacings, as well as serving as anti-camping/full screen pressure but I think what people are trying to say is that you can't depend on them for defense and many characters beat them by being really aggressive against them and in these situations it's better to stop lasering and anticipate that aggressiveness by just moving and hitting them.

 

[Mahone]

Offensive lasers >>>> defensive lasers

 

[takieddine]

laser>fsmash

problem floaties?

 

[KirbyKaze]

laser --> grab --> f-throw --> laser --> f-smash

 

[choknater]

why don't you just play falco in tournament kk?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Because he doesn't have Sheik's up smash.

 

[Kaffei]

-dead- @ ^

 

[Lightsyde]

I think Chopz killing himself every other stock was the bigger hindrance to his success than his laser count.

I almost mentioned that but yeahhhh that didn't help either. >_>

Then again, he normally always forward B'd off the stage when he was trying to laser so those things are kinda related.

Loool @ the Sheik's Usmash post

EDIT: Niko: Yeah, that's what I was getting at, at least. My strategy vs Falco with most all of my other characters is to try to stay in his face and punish lasers/bad reactions so he can't really mount a more "traditional" bnb offense. It seems like a lot of the Falco's I play crumple under being pressured (not necessarily rushed down, but psychologically pressured also) really hard because they are too laser dependent.

 

[CK Momentum]

hi, nice avatar
this is for kirby kaze
i think it is aight.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I agree, Lightsyde. It's clearly the laser's fault that Chopz's tech skill was bad from not practicing as seriously as he used to.

 

[ShroudedOne]

laser>fsmash

problem floaties?

You are an evil human being.

 

[AvengerAngel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoEQ9X2w_Qk

let's watch a falco DD spam @ fox and win for it.

seriously, falco's DD is good.

Honestly I couldn't see Zhu spamming/using so much DD'ing in that set. Could you please point out the most important/significant moments in which DD'ing was used? D:

Also I never said Falco's DD is totally useless, of course. The point is a lot of characters have a better DD game than Falco. He has to mix in lasers, WDs (which are pretty slow as well) and moves to avoid getting ***** by faster characters. Committing to one of those things can be pretty dangerous in some situations, because your opponent might bait you and punish your lag. And obviously he can't punish techs on reaction as Falcon/Sheik/Marth/Fox can D:

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I saw him DD like once in that vid.

Also, floaties should stop complaining about laser -> fsmash and just learn to aerial out. Usmash is a different story. lol

 

[Deleted member]

grab a **** load

dash dance a lot in front of them so they are afraid of getting grabbed afterwards to produce reactions

doesn't work on n00bs though (sometimes)

 

[JPOBS]

LOL WUT...

I agree theyre overrated, but come on now, lets not go crazy

I meant "lasers make him the most vulnerable that he ever is at any given point." baring recovery i guess.

bad word choice i guess.

 

[crush]

I meant "lasers make him the most vulnerable that he ever is at any given point." baring recovery i guess.

have you side-Bed and
missed edge cancel next to marth?
I didn't think so.

 

[FoxLisk]

yall two are my bros
short hop laser kills falco
every ****ing time

 

[PB&J]

Javi vs Shiz friendlies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-HyGh1CFpg&feature=youtu.be

subscribe please. more subscribers give me more motivation to record and upload faster

 

[wootayng]

im trying to learn how to waveshine against cpu's with falco. i can do it when the shine doesn't hit the cpu. but when the shine hits i cant wavedash out of the shine. can someone explain the timing of when your supposed to press jump.
edit. also what buttons do u guys press to shine out of shield?

 

[Bones0]

Whenever you hit an opponent with shine (or any move for that matter) you both get frozen for a few frames in what is called hitlag. The way to deal with this is to just wait a tiny bit longer than normal before inputting the jump out of the shine. I would suggest going into training mode and spawning Starmen onto the CPU, then practice waveshining in place making sure you hit the CPU with each shine.

To shine out of shield, I am holding L, I tilt the stick down and to the side slightly, and then press Y and B in quick succession. With this method I can consistently get the grounded shine out of shield.

 

[hippiedude92]

started keeping up with this thread, picked up falco and melee in mid-summer, thanks to my friend StabbedbyHippie <3

will keep up with this thread more in the future tho, thanks to Dr PP and the falco community for the interesting reads hope to see more soon! =].

ps stab, if you ever read this, just know that ily.

 

[Lightsyde]

I agree, Lightsyde. It's clearly the laser's fault that Chopz's tech skill was bad from not practicing as seriously as he used to.

I didn't mean that and you know it, you jerk. haha

I initially had tried to say Chops abused lasers and was super aggressive and got ***** a lot for it. And I didn't mean to make it sound like it was the lasers fault; just that typically when he SD'd he was trying to shoot a laser, clearly a tech skill error that would come from not practicing enough. >_>

It's his fault either way but I think I understand what you're getting at about relavance to that discussion.

 

[AvengerAngel]

grab a **** load

dash dance a lot in front of them so they are afraid of getting grabbed afterwards to produce reactions

doesn't work on n00bs though (sometimes)

This is soooooo true <3

Javi vs Shiz friendlies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-HyGh1CFpg&feature=youtu.be

subscribe please. more subscribers give me more motivation to record and upload faster

Omg nice vids, thanks for uploading! The way Shiz uses Fsmashes/grabs is still amazing even if he's rusty x)

 

[Rubyiris]

Good stuff, niko

I mentioned that close to g2 and people laughed at me. Glad people are catching on.

 

[Bones0]

That's not why people laugh at you. It's mostly for posts like that one.

 

[JPOBS]

Lol spittin hot fyah.

 

[Dark Hart]

I agree, Lightsyde. It's clearly the laser's fault that Chopz's tech skill was bad from not practicing as seriously as he used to.

Giggle
Giggle

 

[#HBC | Mac]

on the top platform of yoshis,

if you run and sh right at the end of the platform, you can automatically edgecancel an aerial on the side platform.


...

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

more subscribers give me more motivation to record and upload faster

That is undoubtedly not true.

started keeping up with this thread, picked up falco and melee in mid-summer, thanks to my friend StabbedbyHippie <3

will keep up with this thread more in the future tho, thanks to Dr PP and the falco community for the interesting reads hope to see more soon! =].

ps stab, if you ever read this, just know that ily.

****

 

[Bones0]

Is your name hippie or nipple? Settle this once and for all.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Is your name hippie or nipple? Settle this once and for all.

i will give you 5 bucks if you never use that account again and make a new one called stabbedbyanipple

5 dollars later...