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I agree oli is like -2 actually -__- i play against denti sometimes and i really dislike the match up.Both sides came to the same consensus by themselves that olimar has the advantage.
-Olimar's camping game is notably problematic for ZSS.
-The kill power and damage potential of olimar is notably better than what ZSS has.
-Olimar's whistle makes it VERY difficult for ZSS to actually kill olimar.
-ZSS doesn't have strong CP stages on olimar, but olimar has a couple strong CPs on ZSS.
-The main thing that has changed in the MU: Olimar's jump-cancelled upsmash out of shield has resulted in ZSS attacks no longer being as safe as they once were. Such as: Jab, dash attack, and any tilts.
Also, one-stock isn't a good point to argue on because one-stock is inherently different than 3 stock, especially against ZSS.
DK really did make a huge drop in matchups. Poor Ape. Maybe PT has a +1 on DK because of them being able to combo him a lot like Ivy's neutral b and Charizard's flames and rock, and Squirtle juggling. And how DK will have a hard time approaching them if they are camping.Interesting update. DKs MUs dropped by a lot. Now even Ike/Yoshi/Sheik have better MUs than what he has. I faill to understand why PT has a 1+ adv. against DK.
Ah. Maybe I got mixed up because I remember discussing it a lot with people.Ike and Yoshi didn't discuss anything, we both agreed to 0 on our own.
I got Marcbri too.I like how Doc King got trolled by Kid.
He mains olimar, thus, his sonic is trash.We have Greward who is the most amazing Sonic in the universe.
^^ THe problem that a lot of people in here have.As someone who's played Pink Fresh, I cannot see Lucas as a +2. It's not as easy as you think.
Comparing PF to Mekos.I got Marcbri too.
He mains olimar, thus, his sonic is trash.
There are no respectable sonic mains, or even sonic players in that entire continent.
^^ THe problem that a lot of people in here have.
this is why I never make matchup lists for myself. and why I was reluctant to be a part of the panel for sonic to begin with.
How the hell does everyone in here seem to know how every matchup in here plays out at a high level?
Lets be honest, if youve never played PF or Mekos, do you really have a legitamate understanding of how your character does against Lucas? Hell, people consider me a good sonic, and I practice a ton with a solid yoshi player friend of mine, and i still have no freaking clue how that matchup works. Some (a lot[most]) people in here are really over stating the value of your own opinion. Because aside from very specific examples (fuujin comes to mind) if your opinion really mattered that much, youd be on the panel help to decide these things in the first place.
More like most people are just underrating him.DK really did make a huge drop in matchups. Poor Ape. Maybe PT has a +1 on DK because of them being able to combo him a lot like Ivy's neutral b and Charizard's flames and rock, and Squirtle juggling. And how DK will have a hard time approaching them if they are camping.
If you're implying Mekos is much better than PF then you're wrong.Comparing PF to Mekos.
MFW
From the Yoshis I played (mostly Polt), I feel like Ike has a bit of an edge, but it's nothing enough to be more than a 0. Yoshi can put Ike in some positions he doesn't like too much, such as the CG if a double jump.Ah. Maybe I got mixed up because I remember discussing it a lot with people.
nah, it's a -1.Zelda does indeed have a -2 mu vs Yoshi.
Nah, the matchup ppl wouldn't underrate or overrate somebody.More like most people are just underrating him.
I do believe there is Satanpuu. I think he's in France, no?There are no respectable sonic mains, or even sonic players in that entire continent.
Cause that's what it is...how did snake GnW reach +1/-1 ?
You should be banished for this commentDiddy is even against mk.
I still only think it's even. Delta thinks we **** you though.Zelda beats Yoshi bro
What Alph said. We Juggle the **** outta him and KO him earlier than most of the cast. GW/Snake is seriously close to even we just die way too early. One mistake will cost both characters their stock but snake still will live way longer than GW because of a mistake. We win in the air, he wins on the ground, offstage game is almost nonexistent because he recovers high and in the few instances we can put him in that position we win.how did snake GnW reach +1/-1 ?
YOURE better than satanpuu.I do believe there is Satanpuu. I think he's in France, no?
Other than him though, and unless I'm forgetting someone, Sonic is practically non-existant over in Europe, yeah...
sounds like a +1 for snake to me.What Alph said. We Juggle the **** outta him and KO him earlier than most of the cast. GW/Snake is seriously close to even we just die way too early. One mistake will cost both characters their stock but snake still will live way longer than GW because of a mistake. We win in the air, he wins on the ground, offstage game is almost nonexistent because he recovers high and in the few instances we can put him in that position we win.
I mean, Galeon will always be the best Lucas in MY mind. /flbiasIf you're implying Mekos is much better than PF then you're wrong.
I've known both of them, followed their tournament performances since they started actively attending, and played both of them. They're both relatively close in skill.
Also you could possibly group FAE in with them.
I've seen this said somewhere else I think, probably by you. Either way, I feel the same way. It's definitely even at best for Yoshi, and I'd never argue it as a +1 in the current metagame.From the Yoshis I played (mostly Polt), I feel like Ike has a bit of an edge, but it's nothing enough to be more than a 0. Yoshi can put Ike in some positions he doesn't like too much, such as the CG if a double jump.
And you play...which of these characters in tournament at a high level again?nah, it's a -1.
Nah chris has more wins than thatX is like 3-2 with mikehaze or something
I am?YOURE better than satanpuu.
I think that says plenty about the level of sonic over there.
We die early to everyone... and especially snake but in that MU to juggle him; to get him in the air for the juggle; you have Metal Gear(pun intended) you way in which is easier said that done in most cases; it's like thing from A to C and not thinking about B in the middleWhat Alph said. We Juggle the **** outta him and KO him earlier than most of the cast. GW/Snake is seriously close to even we just die way too early. One mistake will cost both characters their stock but snake still will live way longer than GW because of a mistake. We win in the air, he wins on the ground, offstage game is almost nonexistent because he recovers high and in the few instances we can put him in that position we win.
None. I know this because the matchup chart says so. Don't diss the chart.I've seen this said somewhere else I think, probably by you. Either way, I feel the same way. It's definitely even at best for Yoshi, and I'd never argue it as a +1 in the current metagame.
And you play...which of these characters in tournament at a high level again?
PF was inactive for awhile, though he's still got a few good recent accomplishments.I mean, Galeon will always be the best Lucas in MY mind. /flbias
Mekos actually does stuff now though.
Who does PF beat?