iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
mew2king would have won pound 4 but he was one frame too late on a down tilt
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- Status
`Jammin' Jobus
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2006
- Messages
- 489
lol im a second year math major at arguably one of the the best universities in Canada.
Get at me.
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
I didn't know Canada had colleges....
lawl
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
lol which uni?
X1-12
Smash Champion
Fortress | Sveet
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gm jack
Smash Lord
Vet medicine student at the arguably the best in the world. You're wrong.
Learning techniques can only be good. If nothing else, it's tech skill practice. At best, it's another option in a game where having more options than your opponent can decide games. If dropping OoS from a platform stops you getting ***** from beneath, how is that a bad thing? Or if you can mess up a combo if they start to go into auto mode?
`Jammin' Jobus
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2006
- Messages
- 489
Queen's.
You guys still don't understand.
Work on your weakass mindgames before working on shield dropping.
You guys still don't understand.
Work on your weakass mindgames before working on shield dropping.
Fortress | Sveet
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No we understood what you meant. You don't get that "mindgames" are based on using options the opponent didn't think were available to put yourself in favorable position.
gm jack
Smash Lord
How is having another option a bad thing? Once you can do it, it allows you another option to escape your opponent and punish for a read (e.g. standing on a platform in shield, they try to Dair you. Instead, you do a falling Uair, or fall through and then jump and hit them to punish their landing).
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Or maybe YOU just don't understand what mindgames actually are <_<.
Mindgames are evaluating your opponent's options and CHOOSING ONE OF YOUR OWN to counter it.
Anything that limits your opponent's options or increases your own FACILITATES MINDGAMES.
Of course you still have to be good at making those predictions. But if you predicted them correctly, but had no options to punish them, then your prediction was useless. I PREDICT that they will dair on my shield after a laser. Then he will shine, and then he will most likely shorthop another dair and repeat until I get shield stabbed. But what can I realistically do about it?
THAT's where these techniques come in. That's where the connection between mindgames and techskill happens. Knowing what the problem is isn't enough. You have to have a solution for it, and the technical ability to execute that solution. I AM GIVING YOU THE SOLUTIONS AND YOU'RE TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO USE THEM!
The only reason I keep responding is because I don't want other players to be influenced by your terrible mindset. It's like telling a Fox player that they should never learn to wavedash out of his shine, or never learn to JC upsmash OoS, just because he doesn't NEED it to win. Why should we care that it isn't needed? If it is useful in any way it should be learned regardless. And I believe I've given more than enough reason to believe that these things can be useful.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think comparing the shield drop to waveshining or JCing u-smash is sort of a terrible comparison.
I get what you're saying though.
I get what you're saying though.
X1-12
Smash Champion
how about you start working oln not being an arrogant *****?
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
so...after nearly a year and a half, can someone from the MBR confirm if a new tier list is or isn't being worked on?
D
Deleted member
Guest
after some discussion, no new list is being made.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
@darksonic~gg lol
HawaiianJigglyPuff
Smash Ace
I hope Jigglypuff mains win the next large tournaments for the next few years. And then we'll come back to this thread and glare at the MBR...
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I exaggerated the comparison to prove a point. I know that shield dropping is not some game breaking technique.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
hahaha ******s
Falco (MOP)
Smash Journeyman
Why?... Why would you decide to not update something that changes so often? You can't just put that tier list there and be like "BAM! That's how it's going to be forever, no questions asked."
The tier list is ever changing, we're going to be seeing a lot more jigglypuff these days... As Jiggs as my secondary, I'm training her harder now that I know she's getting popular (sorry T.Webb) but that's MINOR in comparison to the swath of changes that are constantly effecting the tier list... Remember when Samus > Captain Falcon not too too long ago? LOL...
I implore you to reconsider Umbreon... The tier list is not as adamant as you make it out to be, it's completely variable on the ever changing way we play.
My 2 cents
~MOP
X1-12
Smash Champion
I think the MBR have probably had the exact same discussion
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
They're just doing other things or being lazy. Even though making a tier list is easy as hell.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
QFT. Outdated tier lists ftw.
otg
Smash Master
Guys the tiers don't change ALL THE TIME. It's not like it changes with every tournament, people think the metagame moves so incredibly fast, but it doesn't. I do agree that the tier list needs an updating tho. To say that Marth is still a top character is absolutely foolish, dude has not done ANYTHING since 07.
Falco (MOP)
Smash Journeyman
That's the thing though, even if they don't change ALL THE TIME, it's foolish to claim that there is like this final tier list theory... And they're changing pretty rapidly btw... And even if they don't change after every tournament, don't you think they should change after Pound 4?... Jigglypuff dittos? Wat?!
~MOP
xbombr
Smash Ace
top
Fox 12
Sheik 32
Falco 33
Marth 47
high
Jiggs 56
Peach 72
Falcon 83
IC's 97
mid
Ganon 108
Samus 120
Doc 127
DK 149
Luigi 153
Mario 159
low
Link 182
Pika 184
YL 208
G&W 224
Roy 235
Zelda 241
bottom
M2 253
Yoshi 264
Ness 270
Bowser 276
Pichu 299
Kirby 308
Well since the topic that was originally for my list got locked, I figured I'd share the most updated findings I had on the community's thoughts about the tier list. I wasn't trying to make a new official tier list or anything, I was just trying to see what people thought about the current metagame and make a sort of community project. The general community never had a say in the tier list, so I thought it might kinda be fun to give us "normal guys" a chance to participate in something like this.
The numbers taken from placements on fully completed tier lists. More points = lower ranking on tier list.
Sorry if I stepped on any toes.
The most notable changes the community (what got to participate in it at least) thought were necessary were Jiggs to top of high and Marth to bottom of top. Pichu and Kirby also changed places as well. There are some others, but I didn't look over it all that closely.
Maybe this can be semi-useful for something or motivate our BRoom to make a new list.
Fox 12
Sheik 32
Falco 33
Marth 47
high
Jiggs 56
Peach 72
Falcon 83
IC's 97
mid
Ganon 108
Samus 120
Doc 127
DK 149
Luigi 153
Mario 159
low
Link 182
Pika 184
YL 208
G&W 224
Roy 235
Zelda 241
bottom
M2 253
Yoshi 264
Ness 270
Bowser 276
Pichu 299
Kirby 308
Well since the topic that was originally for my list got locked, I figured I'd share the most updated findings I had on the community's thoughts about the tier list. I wasn't trying to make a new official tier list or anything, I was just trying to see what people thought about the current metagame and make a sort of community project. The general community never had a say in the tier list, so I thought it might kinda be fun to give us "normal guys" a chance to participate in something like this.
The numbers taken from placements on fully completed tier lists. More points = lower ranking on tier list.
Sorry if I stepped on any toes.
The most notable changes the community (what got to participate in it at least) thought were necessary were Jiggs to top of high and Marth to bottom of top. Pichu and Kirby also changed places as well. There are some others, but I didn't look over it all that closely.
Maybe this can be semi-useful for something or motivate our BRoom to make a new list.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
xbombr, why are you trying to make the MBR see the truth and better the community? Clearly the best stance is to do nothing, because outdated tier lists are awesome. JEEZ...
xbombr
Smash Ace
Retro is in fashion again? Did I miss something?
I'm totally taking this chance to bring disco back.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
No, retro is not in fashion again, and yes you did miss something. lol
I'm so done posting tonight
I'm so done posting tonight
TP
Smash Master
The current tier list was called the "Final" list due to the assumption that Melee, or perhaps just the talent in Melee, would start to fade away due to Brawl's release, which would mean that any further changes to the metagame were a regression, not progress. However, it is clear that Melee has NOT faded, even though it did have a period of roughly a year where its numbers were generally unimpressive. Genesis and Pound (as well as the upcoming GAMME and Apex 2) clearly show that the new metagame developments (and it would be outright foolish to pretend there are no new developments) are a result of the evolution of the metagame, since the numbers now are as impressive as they have ever been. Therefore, with the reasoning for the last tier list being the final one defeated, it makes logical sense to proceed with a new tier list.
xbombr
Smash Ace
Oh darn. I got out my platform shoes for nothing.
I was jk'ing, btw.
I really think we need a new tier list. Much of the community, including myself, seem to think that the metagame has changed since the "final" tier list was release.
Jiggs deserves to move up a few spots, Marth needs to drop a few, a few other adjustments should be made. I mean we have a new stage list now and some characters got boned by that and others helped. There's no way that the metagame is the same now as it was back then. The stage list has been changed by the MBR themselves and the playstyles of each character have been pushed further than they were before.
Melee is far from dead and it keeps advancing. There wasn't, and still isn't, anything final about Melee's metagame.
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
Wasn't there a quote from the new site owner that he wanted Melee to die?
I remember seeing it in someones sig a while back, didn't know if it's real.
D
Deleted member
Guest
after attending pound 4, I personally would not be opposed to a new tier list. I am simply stating that none is currently being worked on. I only oversee and moderate the MBR, I don't decide its future projects.
If you want a new tier list, kick some of the current members into action to do so. It's not my personal back room.
edit: I do completely agree that this list is outdated at this time.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
How would one go about forcing action in the MBR?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Become the majority?
Don't look at me, I'm in the other BR, the one you guys don't mention around here.
*shifty eyes*
Don't look at me, I'm in the other BR, the one you guys don't mention around here.
*shifty eyes*
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
the... Brawl br!!?? oh no he di'int
edit: kaostar: with a tire iron
on topic so i dont get infracted...
i personally cant care less for a new tier list. we know who is good and who isnt. its a matter of the current metagame. just play fox, falco, sheik, jiggs, marth, peach, or falcon theyre the chars that have enough potential to compete at top lv
i still think marth is the best character in the game lol
Vts
Smash Champion
you also play boozer anything not below you u might think is best character in game
<3
idk marth is top 3 idk about being the best.
i wanna believe sheik is best in game but not going to happen lol
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