Official MBR Tier List

[`Jammin' Jobus]

lol. nice 0-deaths there.

haha your bad.


When you make posts like that "I litterally 0-death out of every hit" any good player will see how ******** you are.

Not even mew2king 0-deaths good ganons out of everyhit.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think a lot of the problem of this discussion came from what you consider a combo. I consider it a combo basically until the opponent can get a hit in or gain some stage control back. For actual combos and juggles in the air, no marth doesnt 0-death ganon often.

i can pull up some old vids where m2k does this pretty often to magus's ganon in a bunch of vids they had together.

yeah, maybe i got ahead of myself when i said every time and stuff.

 

[TresChikon]

I'm not throwing out any numbers here.

However, I do agree that although Marth can't literally pull off 0-death, Marth can gain gain some serious momentum on Ganon even if he DI's out of combos. Reason being is that it's really difficult for Ganon to reset his position against anyone even when he has DI'ed correctly and is out of hitstun.

So although Marth can't follow up anymore, Ganon is still in that really awkward place where he can't really throw an attack or really do anything, except for try to safely land and try to regain balance. And I believe Marth can cover that option pretty well.

 

[TheManaLord]

marth > ganon is totally reasonable, and anyone arguing otherwise is kind of lame

 

[xbombr]

marth > ganon is totally reasonable, and anyone arguing otherwise is kind of lame

The point wasn't who's better, but that it's not a **** match up where Marth always wins no matter what because Ganon can't move once he gets hit or something stupid like that. Ganon and Marth are fairly close to even, but Marth does have an advantage because of his speed and slightly better range/disjointed hitboxes.

Or at least that was my point originally when we first started this discussion.. idk what the hell this has evolved into.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i'm gonna dip in here and say that marth has been underrated lately, imo.

he doesn't have a lot of representation, but he's still an amazingly good character.
matchups like captain and ganon that people say are even kinda bother me. i think marth has at least a slight advantage in almost every match up in the game.

edit: i know how sveet might feel about the videos you guys are talking about. i have videos up from a few months ago that, in no way, represent how good i am now. (not that i'm super good, but yeah...)

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Marth vs Falcon has always been seen as very stage dependent. Falcon's greatest asset in the matchup (the ability to run around faster than Marth can keep up with <_<) is limited only by stage choice, which is what makes the matchup hard to label.

Other than that, Marth is underrated because Marth mains aren't showcasing him. Quite frankly, we've just fallen behind in the metagame because we keep shrugging off general mechanics that we could be practicing (shield smash DI, smash DI in general, powershielding, pivoting, shield platform dropping, ect.), trying to look for some kind of character specific techniques, which simply aren't there. Marth actually gets A LOT out of every tech I just listed, arguably more than the other top tiers.

Shield smash DI gives him an instant answer for Falco's pressure game (his ENTIRE pressure game <_<). It doesn't slide you too far to punish Falco like lightshielding does either. Heck it'll let you shieldgrab things that used to push you too far away too (Falco's f-smash, Fox's upsmash). Maybe it'll help Marth punish Jigg's bair with a fair OoS? It's just that NOBODY DOES THIS.

Smash DI is rarely used. We use it to get out of Fox's upthrow->uair, but not many people even try to use it in other situations (like escaping Falcon combos, or at least making them harder). On the flipside, my space animal friends pretty much always try to smash DI my uptilts behind me now <_<.

Powershielding is used on projectiles quite a bit with Marth now so that's a good thing. It's just that people are still slow moving out of the powershield. If Marth were to wavedash out of a powershielded laser from ACROSS THE STAGE, he could probably still follow it up. Powershielding (and punishing) normal attacks isn't really something I can expect people to do though.

Let's face it, the only thing that Marth players know how to pivot are grabs and f-smashes <_<. It'd be nice to see Marth players just use empty pivots or pivot jumps solely for spacing purposes. Then you could also dash forward, shield out of the initial dash, and jump out of the shield as well (which is essentially a forward facing pivot jump). Nearly instant yet precise spacing would be useful right?

Shield platform dropping would be SOOO useful to Marth, since guess where he has problems getting down from the most? Just being able to drop through the platform without having to wait for that massive shield drop lag would be AMAZING for positioning. Not to mention all the cool tricks you could do with shield dropping in combination with dash dancing (instantly spaced aerials while dropping through a platform. Heck, you could even aim for shieldstabs more easily with this).




So yeah, Marth will pretty much be seen as the worst of the top tiers, because currently....he is. Everything I've said before is only theorycraft (reasonable ideas of course, but still not yet implemented), and people's opinions are not based on what is possible, they are based on what has been seen.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

This thread never fails to bring the lol.

DS your making some great points as to what would advance Marth's game even further.

Once the full potential of shield smash DI is realized things may get too intense for me. Sheild smash di basically already is.

Marth obviously has the slight advantage on Ganon for simple reasons. Better mobility, better wavedash and better edgeguards. I wouldn't say "combos" are a huge game changer for marth though in the slightest. Even if you get a 5-6 hit 50-60% combo, ganon may or may not be in kill range and may or may not die. If Ganon gets 1 hit, he'll likely get one or two more for the same percent as marths "combos" and marth will likely be in the same situation as ganon was, off stage with little chance of survival.

I would go on but you covered most of it DS. Anyway "slight advantage" for marth might as well mean "AWESOME MATCHUP" for ganon. It isn't like they don't have to deal with sheiks or fox. And falcon is certainly harder to play against than marth.

 

[X1-12]

I would go on but you covered most of it DS. Anyway "slight advantage" for marth might as well mean "AWESOME MATCHUP" for ganon. It isn't like they don't have to deal with sheiks or fox. And falcon is certainly harder to play against than marth.

All match-ups should be rated on like a scale of:
AWESOME MATCH UP
slight advantage
50/50(lame)
Suck
MEGA SUCK

 

[x After Dawn x]

i never said it wasn't? i agree its fairly close.

LMAOO

no, its not in ganon's favor.


marth literally 0-death's ganon every time he gets a hit. god i love heavy characters with low natural air movement.

umm. your opinion keeps changing, try to be a little more consistent? =/ you implied that it wasn't close at all.

lol. nice 0-deaths there.

haha your bad.


When you make posts like that "I litterally 0-death out of every hit" any good player will see how ******** you are.

Not even mew2king 0-deaths good ganons out of everyhit.

it's funny because both mew2king and azen's marths have lost to kage before, which is part of the reason why m2k goes sheik against him lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

my opinion didn't change? fairly close but in marth's favor is the same as not in ganon's favor.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

^^Marth vs Falcon has always been seen as very stage dependent. Falcon's greatest asset in the matchup (the ability to run around faster than Marth can keep up with <_<) is limited only by stage choice, which is what makes the matchup hard to label.

Other than that, Marth is underrated because Marth mains aren't showcasing him. Quite frankly, we've just fallen behind in the metagame because we keep shrugging off general mechanics that we could be practicing (shield smash DI, smash DI in general, powershielding, pivoting, shield platform dropping, ect.), trying to look for some kind of character specific techniques, which simply aren't there. Marth actually gets A LOT out of every tech I just listed, arguably more than the other top tiers.

Shield smash DI gives him an instant answer for Falco's pressure game (his ENTIRE pressure game <_<). It doesn't slide you too far to punish Falco like lightshielding does either. Heck it'll let you shieldgrab things that used to push you too far away too (Falco's f-smash, Fox's upsmash). Maybe it'll help Marth punish Jigg's bair with a fair OoS? It's just that NOBODY DOES THIS.

Smash DI is rarely used. We use it to get out of Fox's upthrow->uair, but not many people even try to use it in other situations (like escaping Falcon combos, or at least making them harder). On the flipside, my space animal friends pretty much always try to smash DI my uptilts behind me now <_<.

Powershielding is used on projectiles quite a bit with Marth now so that's a good thing. It's just that people are still slow moving out of the powershield. If Marth were to wavedash out of a powershielded laser from ACROSS THE STAGE, he could probably still follow it up. Powershielding (and punishing) normal attacks isn't really something I can expect people to do though.

Let's face it, the only thing that Marth players know how to pivot are grabs and f-smashes <_<. It'd be nice to see Marth players just use empty pivots or pivot jumps solely for spacing purposes. Then you could also dash forward, shield out of the initial dash, and jump out of the shield as well (which is essentially a forward facing pivot jump). Nearly instant yet precise spacing would be useful right?

Shield platform dropping would be SOOO useful to Marth, since guess where he has problems getting down from the most? Just being able to drop through the platform without having to wait for that massive shield drop lag would be AMAZING for positioning. Not to mention all the cool tricks you could do with shield dropping in combination with dash dancing (instantly spaced aerials while dropping through a platform. Heck, you could even aim for shieldstabs more easily with this).




So yeah, Marth will pretty much be seen as the worst of the top tiers, because currently....he is. Everything I've said before is only theorycraft (reasonable ideas of course, but still not yet implemented), and people's opinions are not based on what is possible, they are based on what has been seen.

I really think your over thinking this.


Marth falling behind in the metagame has nothing to do with these obscure techniques that aren't really all the usefull or even that often used by the best players in the world.


Marth is falling behind because of his lack reliable kills moves.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Actually the best players in the world do use all of those. HugS has been shield dropping for a long time, and kels told me that linguini could shield grab him ~every time because he shield SDIs.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

If you think shield dropping is the defining element of Hugs playstyle your worse that i thought. First of all because Hugs Samus rarely EVER goes on platforms. He plays the most grounded Samus I've ever seen. He almost never leaves the ground thats why I think its a moot point for him. I dont count frames so i cant speak on the linguini **** but im pretty sure he wouldnt be able to shield grab my drillshine. I play with a guy that goes even against Kage in friendlies so im not a nub and i dont play bad people.


I just think you guys are barking up the wrong tree. Just play smarter. You dont need that **** at all.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo89Gn1Wo54

youtubed "hugs samus" and went by date uploaded. First video found. he shield drops ~0:30. Probably more in the set if you want to keep watching. btw i never said anything about a "defining element" so you should stop putting words in my mouth. You're the one that said top pros don't do those things and i named two off the top of my head.

drill shine is probably one of the easier things to shield grab, because of how many frames you can shield SDI on. linguini shield SDI'd kels' nair to avoid the shine and get a grab. I doubt he would have any problem shieldgrabbing your drill.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

I play with a guy that goes even against Kage in friendlies so im not a nub and i dont play bad people.

.........................

 

[Dark Sonic]

I really think your over thinking this.


Marth falling behind in the metagame has nothing to do with these obscure techniques that aren't really all the usefull or even that often used by the best players in the world.


Marth is falling behind because of his lack reliable kills moves.

Shield DI against Falco's pressure would give him a reliable escape and a very easy grab setup (Falco's shine misses and Marth gets a grab <_<).

Shield dropping would also give Marth another reliable escape and put him right under the opponent.

Smash DIing out of combos=Marth not dead.

Powershielding=no more camping Marth.

Why SHOULDN'T Marth players learn these again? Smash DI is a bit much (though people seem to get out of Fox's uair often enough <_<), but everything else there is perfectly reasonable. Marth doesn't have character specific techniques to exploit, but there's no reason he can't just take better advantage of what everyone can do in the first place.

Marth is falling behind because players have found the holes in his gameplay and are finally exploiting it. But there are plenty of things that Marth can do to cover up or even eliminate these flaws (weak under shield pressure? Not anymore! Has trouble getting down? Problem solved! ect.) It's no different than Fox and Falco players learning to shorthop out of their shine way back when. Marth has to shield A LOT in his top tier matchups, and making his shield options better can only help his metagame. And these things mostly lead to more counterattack opportunities, which helps Marth with his killing problem.

Marth's lack of safe kill moves has always been a problem, it's not like this is sudden news to anyone. The way he compensates for this is by being a ***** to kill himself. He's hard to approach, hard to combo, and after implementing these things he'd even be hard to pressure once an opponent got in anyway.

I just think you guys are barking up the wrong tree. Just play smarter. You dont need that **** at all.

So what your saying is, don't learn new techniques that could help your character with common problems?

That's like telling space animals not to learn how to wavedash out of their shine, or telling Peach players not to learn how to float cancel (okay, I'm exaggerating to prove a point).

Playing "smarter" isn't just tricking your opponent and taking advantage of their habits. Learning to utilize your available options is also part of playing smart (especially in this case, where learning these things help you avoid pressure, avoid DEATH, and create openings in your opponent's game).

I learned how to powershield lasers and it completely changed how Falco players have to fight me. What did they do? Well, the shot less lasers of course, or the shot them lower so that they could then jump over them if they got powershielded. But in the end, THIS STILL BENEFITS ME, because now I don't have to work so hard to get around lasers. I can jump over the lower lasers that they're shooting, or the opponent might just stop lasering altogether.

Applying this same trend to other techniques would see similar results don't you think? What would happen if Falco's pillar just gets him grabbed? He'd do it less of course, which means less shield pressure on me and less chances of me being hit as a result.


Yeah it's theorycraft, but that only means that it needs real world testing. It's not like anything I've said above isn't true right?

 

[Deleted member]

are you kidding marth is a ****ing joke to combo. none of his moves stay out or hit low so he can't mash out of a combo and his weight is perfect for anyone with any semblance of technical ability.

 

[Dark Sonic]

are you kidding marth is a ****ing joke to combo. none of his moves stay out or hit low so he can't mash out of a combo and his weight is perfect for anyone with any semblance of technical ability.

You mean for Falcon and Falco right?

Cause pretty much every other character has more trouble comboing Marth than comboing Fox, Falco, Sheik, Falcon, Ganondorf, Dr Mario, Mario, ect.

Only characters that hard harder to combo than Marth (off the top of my head anyway) are Peach, Jigglypuff, Samus and Luigi (though Luigi's lack of range kinda makes him easier to trap too <_<)

Also...fair says hi <_<. He's also got side B as an aerial stall, which is more than you can say for most characters, who only have their second jump to rely on.


All I'm saying is that there's plenty of things Marth players could be doing to cover up some of his weaknesses, but they're not doing it (myself included. I powershield normal attacks like every ****ing match, and not once have I remembered that I can attack directly out of the shield in these situations <_<)

Would these things make him the best character in the game? No. Would these things completely change his matchups? No. But they would certainly be helpful to his pretty much stagnant metagame, which is all I was arguing.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just for you sonic, i'm going to powershield a falco nair/dair approach directly into a utilt tonight.

edit- probably not, i've been playing more puff than marth the last few nights. I'll still try tho.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Marth is easy to combo. He recovers quickly similar to luigi but combo weight is too good.

Smash DI and fairing out when possible can make it more difficult but most of the time, its not to hard.

 

[BBQ°]

I really think your over thinking this.


Marth falling behind in the metagame has nothing to do with these obscure techniques that aren't really all the usefull or even that often used by the best players in the world.


Marth is falling behind because of his lack reliable kills moves.

lolwut? Those techniques give him openings for setups, which combo into kill moves.

you're obviously part of some conspiracy trying to prevent marth from advancing!!!!!!!!!111

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo89Gn1Wo54

youtubed "hugs samus" and went by date uploaded. First video found. he shield drops ~0:30. Probably more in the set if you want to keep watching. btw i never said anything about a "defining element" so you should stop putting words in my mouth. You're the one that said top pros don't do those things and i named two off the top of my head.

drill shine is probably one of the easier things to shield grab, because of how many frames you can shield SDI on. linguini shield SDI'd kels' nair to avoid the shine and get a grab. I doubt he would have any problem shieldgrabbing your drill.

Hugs used it once in the game and it accomplished nothing. great example.

I said they dont do those things often and they arent very useful. Hugs used it once and did nothing. YOU stop putting words in my mouth.



Show me one match where linguini consistently shield grabs every attempt at spacie pressure on his shield.



And Dark Sonic. Im not a frame nerd but I think your overaating the usefulness and practicality of these things

 

[BBQ°]

Hugs used it once in the game and it accomplished nothing. great example.

I said they dont do those things often and they arent very useful. Hugs used it once and did nothing. YOU stop putting words in my mouth.



Show me one match where linguini consistently shield grabs every attempt at spacie pressure on his shield.



And Dark Sonic. Im not a frame nerd but I think your overaating the usefulness and practicality of these things

Think of what could have happened if Mango predicted Hugs to jump out of shield? Hugs could've been punished badly. And you're making a huge understatement by saying Hugs used it and it "accomplished nothing". Choosing an option that Mango doesn't predict is a huge accomplishment, lol.

Here's a video example of basically the same situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYMyP31etbk#t=2m15s

At 2:20, Faab is on a platform, shielding.
Mango knows that when people are shielding on a platform, their number 1 option of choice is usually to jump out of shield. Guess what... Faab jumps out of shield, Mango predicts it, and basically combos him to death for it. What if Faab did a shield platform drop? He would've been safe below the platform, Mango would've made an incorrect prediction and then Faab would've been at an advantageous position because Falco ***** underneath a platform with shine shenanigans.

Show me one match where linguini consistently shield grabs every attempt at spacie pressure on his shield.

Why does it matter if he's able to do it consistently? If Ganondorf is able to do it at least once a match, then that gives him a free grab, and Ganondorf has a chaingrab on space animals to death. A free chaingrab to death by using a game mechanic that you are frowning upon...? Why don't you try to be open minded and see the possibilities? Come on man..

 

[Dark Sonic]

Show me one match where linguini consistently shield grabs every attempt at spacie pressure on his shield.

Ganon's grab range is horrible <_<. He'd probably still get shined if he's within range to grab them. It would work for Marth because Marth's grab outranges their attacks. All he's using the shield DI for is to MAKE THEM MISS. And while I can't show you matches of players really using shield DI (mostly because of them not being recorded, not because it hasn't been used. Heck, my friends use it to avoid getting knocked onto the ledge when they're shielding really close to it), you still have not given me any valid reason that it wouldn't work.

And Dark Sonic. Im not a frame nerd but I think your overaating the usefulness and practicality of these things

Well let's see. Actually, smash DI and power shielding have been proven in practice. Show me one match where Armada DOESN'T powershield Falco's lasers <_<. And Hungrybox smash DI's Fox's upthrow->uair a good 50% of the time now (which means half of the times that he would've died he now doesn't.)

I've seen space animal players sometimes smash DI my uptilts behind me, making them impossible to followup. And it's not even the top space animal players, it's guys like Harriettheguy, Pengie, Sheermadness, ect. Mid level players are doing this and seeing success with it (and by success I mean they're ruining my combos >_<). Not to say that top level players don't do it at all (Shiz did it to me a couple times at noob1 in friendlies . He's also notorious for teching counter edgeguards)

Ganon and Peach players smash DI the first hit of my nair and make the second miss when I tried to finish combos off stage with it instead of a tipped fair.

I've seen Marth players smash DI my f-smash edgeguards in order to ledge tech. And I do the same to them .

I've PERSONALLY smash DI'd the first hit of Falcon's nair to avoid the second, smash DI'd Fox's dair to avoid getting shined, and on rare occasions have smash DI'd Falcon's uair to avoid getting combo'd (maybe they could followup with nair or something idk, but smash DIing down and away, while also DIing down and away....has suprising results). Of course I've also smash DI'd Fox's uair like everyone else does nowadays. Do I do this consistently? No, but every time I succeed it means that I don't die. Even if it only worked 10% of the time, it's still a way for me to keep my stock and potentially take theirs.

So+1 for smash DI being efficient in practice.

Powershielding lasers made me go from 1 stocking to 2 or 3 stocking those same Falco players consistently. Every time I powershield a laser it disrupts whatever the Falco player was doing, and forces him to change just for me. Some Falcos shoot less lasers, some Falcos shoot lower lasers, some Falcos full jump double laser (not too smart <_<), but in the end it weakens their characters abilities and strengthen mine. Falco without lasers<Falco with lasers.

+1 for powershielding being efficient in practice. I'm gonna learn to powershield Samus's missiles next, just for fun


Shield dropping is probably not revolutionary, but neither are pivot grabs and we tell every Marth player to learn those (they're useful outside of chaingrabs too btw. You can grab characters directly out of attacks more easily with pivot grabs).

Shield DI....anything that nets Marth a grab is useful. Only problem is that it's relatively hard to do consistently, and for most moves it's impossible on reaction. But, how much thinking do you really need to do to realize what a Falco player is going to use after he shorthops at you from behind a laser? Learning the timing will certainly be difficult, and it likely won't be consistent (just like smash DI right?), but if every time you do it right you get to see the opponent miss a shine from arm's length.... it's worth it don't you think?


So am I still overrating these techniques? I definitely don't think so. They're potentially useful escape tools. You don't have to be a frame nerd to understand that getting out of combos is good for you. You don't have to be a frame nerd to understand that getting free grabs is good for you. It seems that you believe that just because you don't see a technique used often, it automatically is worthless. Ever thought that they may just be difficult and people are lazy?

 

[-ACE-]

Lol walls of text. Ganon's grab range isn't "horrible" imo. Linguini uses a combination of shield DI and CC grabs to get most of his grabs on falco. Shield SDI/ASDI away on the first shine essentially leaves falco with waveshine away and fulljump out of shine. If Falco tries to sh aerial or double shine he gets grabbed.

For the record, Dark Sonic is NOT overrating the usefulness of those techniques.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

i still think you guys are looking at all the wrong things to improve. at the point in your game when your even considering mastering these techniques there are more useful things you could do to your game with better results.

its all good though. agree to disagree.

at high levels 90% of this game is mental. you do some sheild di and grab out of sheild ill just stop attacking your shield ya mean? like i just dont think any of these things are ground breakingly usefull when good spacing makes every one of these techniques obsolete.

 

[yummynbeefy]

really puff is overhyped so what theres 3 amazing puffs in the nation doesnt mean shes instantly the best character just because darc, hbox, and mango exist and play their character so well ive talked to puff mains and people make it like she has no bad matchups sure she can cp pretty well considering her cps are good (brinstar comes to mind instantly)

 

[-ACE-]

i still think you guys are looking at all the wrong things to improve. at the point in your game when your even considering mastering these techniques there are more useful things you could do to your game with better results.

its all good though. agree to disagree.

at high levels 90% of this game is mental. you do some sheild di and grab out of sheild ill just stop attacking your shield ya mean? like i just dont think any of these things are ground breakingly usefull when good spacing makes every one of these techniques obsolete.

You're right, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. There's nothing wrong with knowing the best ways of dealing with arguably the best approach in the game (falco dair > shine). It really depends on the matchup. In this particular one, Ganon basically can't win against Falco without getting some grabs (techchasing is so important, and there's chaingrabbing). Since falco is like the 2nd hardest character in the game to shieldgrab I think it's worth knowing all the details of dealing with his general approach (since getting grabs are so important in this matchup). It's a little different than trying to incorporate shield DI/tons of frame data into your jiggs ditto game lol

 

[Dark Sonic]

you do some sheild di and grab out of sheild I'll just stop attacking your shield ya mean? like i just dont think any of these things are ground breakingly usefull when good spacing makes every one of these techniques obsolete.

But...this benefits me.

THAT'S the point I'm trying to make. The "counters" to these techniques are to...not attack me, which still leaves me better off than if I had never learned these techniques.

Yes high level play is mostly about baits and punishments, but having more options gives you more opportunities to do this. Even Hungrybox learned how to wavedash OoS you know (and how useful do you think it really is for Jigglypuff? But it's still an option and even if he only uses it once a set, that's still an opportunity that he would've otherwise missed).

High level play is about creating openings and punishing them as hard as possible. Therefore, any techniques that create more openings in your opponent's game, or help you punish harder (or techniques that minimize these things) are without a doubt conductive to high level play. You can do without them of course, but WHY do without them?

You can win a chess game without ever utilizing a particular piece, but WHY?

 

[adumbrodeus]

When we're talking about marth as a character it's all about his options.


Every character benefits to different degrees from universal techs depending on character attributes. Jiggs benefits a great deal from efficient DI, so why is the fact that marth benefits from efficient shield DI being discounted?


Melee players have proven they can become more technical before, time for marth players to step up to the plate,

 

[Vts]

When we're talking about marth as a character it's all about his options.


Every character benefits to different degrees from universal techs depending on character attributes. Jiggs benefits a great deal from efficient DI, so why is the fact that marth benefits from efficient shield DI being discounted?


Melee players have proven they can become more technical before, time for marth players to step up to the plate,

you mean by light shielding hits and jumping out of shield into a grab so shining and almost any move hit on him just leads to a grab for him?

my crew member does this from time to time depending on what move he is hit with, pretty hard he says since u have to barely push the R/L.

 

[X1-12]

i reckon...... ~ 60% of the posts on the last 2 page of this thread were expelled from someone's anus

 

[KAOSTAR]

I dont see why there is even an argument.

Its easy to say, the more options you have at your disposal, the better off you will be granted you use them appropriately.

Id rather have more skills then less. Even if one of those techniqes gets me out of a combo or punishment just once in a tourney match. Thats one more thing going in my favor.

They dont have to be ground breaking, but when you add all of it up it makes a difference in your thinking, and level of play that you can attest to.

 

[Signia]

"frame nerd" ... please kill yourself. Most people who have graduated middle school realize that knowledge/intelligence is power, and that you can't insult someone for being more knowledgeable than you in a particular area.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

"frame nerd" ... please kill yourself. Most people who have graduated middle school realize that knowledge/intelligence is power, and that you can't insult someone for being more knowledgeable than you in a particular area.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Dark Sonic GENERALIZED the term "frame nerd." He wasn't directly insulting anybody.

For instance, I know how many frames it takes for Sheik's f-air to come out (I can't remember numbers at the moment). Okay, cool. Whatever. If I don't know how to apply that knowledge, then knowing it is kinda moot. I think that's what Dark Sonic was trying to get at.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Pink Reaper]

I hate to burst your bubble, but Dark Sonic GENERALIZED the term "frame nerd." He wasn't directly insulting anybody.

For instance, I know how many frames it takes for Sheik's f-air to come out (I can't remember numbers at the moment). Okay, cool. Whatever. If I don't know how to apply that knowledge, then knowing it is kinda moot. I think that's what Dark Sonic was trying to get at.

Smooth Criminal

YOU'VE BEEN HIT BY, YOU'VE BEEN STRUCK BY A SMOOTH CRIMINAL

 

[KAOSTAR]

Getting owned on swf......

Priceless

 

[The Good Doctor]

"frame nerd" ... please kill yourself. Most people who have graduated middle school realize that knowledge/intelligence is power, and that you can't insult someone for being more knowledgeable than you in a particular area.

You might want to go ahead and tie that around your neck instead...
seriously, don't act like a dumby...

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Why does Mew2King wear glasses?
Because of the frames.