Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[ShroudedOne]

I think Vidjogamer should be moved up to low tier maybe. But that list is pretty real, otherwise.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Username Tier list

<Tiers>

Dude, that was the 10,000th post in this thread.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Disagree with some of the top tiers, think high tiers should go up

westballz/silent wolf could go up

 

[Dr Peepee]

Nice I'm not bottom tier

Good stuff David

I would think Marth does better vs spacies(Fox anyway) but I don't know a lot of Sheik things.

 

[ShrieK1295]

Immaturity would be expected. If we were a older community, you would have none of this "getting wasted the night before grandfinals" nonsense or "lose one set in winners and ragequit out of tournament" stuff.

I think most people at most ages like to get wasted with friends from around the world, and having to play a video game the next day shouldn't stop them -.-

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yooo wut...
Hbox has a boss *** name.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nice I'm not bottom tier

Good stuff David

I would think Marth does better vs spacies(Fox anyway) but I don't know a lot of Sheik things.

Sheik's shield is better against their bullcrap and her finishers are way better but yeah Marth has a sword and dash dance so maybe he's better vs Fox

Still think Sheik is better overall though mostly 'cuz a lot of her MUs are easy to pilot because of super easy kills whereas Marth still has to think and crap, which is harder

That said, don't really care too much 'bout the tier list update in general 'cuz it's pretty clear who the good characters are, who the okay characters are, and who the remaining "playable" characters are

I seriously think the only meaningful updates we've had in the past 2 years have been bumping Peach to top of high tier or wherever the hell she is now, moving Marth down a few slots, and recognizing that Pikachu can be really gay to a bunch of important characters and is probably therefore the same ballpark of power as Mario and Ganon and co.

Ness sucks

 

[DerfMidWest]

KirbyKaze is the worst character.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I make it work.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sheik's shield is better against their bullcrap and her finishers are way better but yeah Marth has a sword and dash dance so maybe he's better vs Fox

Still think Sheik is better overall though mostly 'cuz a lot of her MUs are easy to pilot because of super easy kills whereas Marth still has to think and crap, which is harder

That said, don't really care too much 'bout the tier list update in general 'cuz it's pretty clear who the good characters are, who the okay characters are, and who the remaining "playable" characters are

I seriously think the only meaningful updates we've had in the past 2 years have been bumping Peach to top of high tier or wherever the hell she is now, moving Marth down a few slots, and recognizing that Pikachu can be really gay to a bunch of important characters and is probably therefore the same ballpark of power as Mario and Ganon and co.

Ness sucks

It's mostly fun to discuss. I don't have my own tier list finished anyway so I'm sort of seeing what you say to help me decide as well. =p

I used to think Sheik had way better finishers but being able to set up tipper Fsmash vs Ken combo out of throw as well as comboing stray hits like jab into Fsmash is really good vs anyone including spacies.

That shield point is REALLY good though and I didn't think of that. I wonder if mastering shield DI would negate some of that advantage.....I dunno lol

Oh yeah, and if Marth gets his powershield down, then he could effectively get his DD back vs Falco(the run away powershield is super easy when practiced) and that means Marth gets the range AND mobility advantage back vs him. I'd think that would put Marth above Sheik in terms of difficulty for Falco(Sheik just has more range and a decent counterattack game without mobility, right?), but I haven't been able to actually do that yet(need Falcos to play/practice with) so right now it is just an idea I believe in. =p

You don't have to agree with me, but I am interested in what you think about that. =)

That last point is pretty funny hahaha. 2 years....yeah that's probably a fine statement for that time period lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I dunno how PSing Falco's lasers would work because all the people that are supposed to be so good at PS camping that it robs Falco of his laser game seem to lose to the good Falcos anyway. And I'm still not sure how Marth actions after shield 'cuz he still needs to WD unless he's within attack range OOS. So I kind of want to see it before I start judging it.

I'd also be interested in seeing what Sheik could do with PSing. I think Sheik could probably do a different version of that strategy just 'cuz she has long limbs that come out quickly after WD. Probably not quite as good, but coupled with her faster options with a conventional shield game I'd think the PS supplementing it would be really gay.

But I'd still want to see it before I started taking it into consideration as a serious thing for a tier list evaluation.

 

[Dr Peepee]

That's a fair point. I don't think PS'ing has been fairly shown for either character.

I'll see if I can show it at high level for Marth. =)

 

[Youngling]

I dunno how PSing Falco's lasers would work because all the people that are supposed to be so good at PS camping that it robs Falco of his laser game seem to lose to the good Falcos anyway. And I'm still not sure how Marth actions after shield 'cuz he still needs to WD unless he's within attack range OOS. So I kind of want to see it before I start judging it.

I'd also be interested in seeing what Sheik could do with PSing. I think Sheik could probably do a different version of that strategy just 'cuz she has long limbs that come out quickly after WD. Probably not quite as good, but coupled with her faster options with a conventional shield game I'd think the PS supplementing it would be really gay.

But I'd still want to see it before I started taking it into consideration as a serious thing for a tier list evaluation.

Lucien is probably the best example you'll find for Sheik's PS options. He PS WD grabs all the time on Falcos.

 

[Bones0]

I know I've probably said this way too many times, but PSing is never going to become some laser counter that lets people do whatever they want (not saying that's what you guys were implying, but a lot of people seem to think this is the case). It's just way too easy to fake lasers, shoot them high and run under, or shoot them low and jump over them. My training partner has been able to consistently PS for a while now, and he only ever benefits from it when he catches me completely off guard. Only exceptions where it can truly be treated like a counter are PS grab as they land in front of you within your grab range, and PSing LHDL so that you interrupt them before the second laser, and you can counterattack. Aside from that, it should only really be used as a mixup or as a form of pressure (i.e. powershield a laser back at them to stop them in their tracks and let you zone them closer to the ledge as opposed to getting a straight up punish).

 

[leffen]

Marths PS game is pretty awful if you do his dash away>PS since he is turned the other way, which leaves him with much fewer options and doing it anywhere close is very impractical.
What I do is just simply walk towards the opponent then -> PS, which gives Marth insanely good options (most notably grab/fair/nair).

Sheik is also really good at PS'ing, but its uses are a bit different, yes.
Dash up->PS->Grab/Fair/nair (combos) is one of her main uses (this is also fool proof of early lasers/fakes) but she also has options like walking/running from a dash attacks length away and then doing PS-> FH/SH (you keep 95% of your momentum) into fair/needle pressure or WD oos->ftilt/grab/dsmash.

The main problem with ppl like Ice is that he relies too much on PSing in a specific way, and falls apart when you do not laser in his prefered ranges. His powershielding really helps him overall though, the reason he still loses is because his other areas of plays are much lower than the opponents hes losing too

@Bones: Powershielding, while manageable, definitely removes a ton of options. However, it takes a lot of skills to implement successfully... You don't look at a low level player who spams dashdances in your opponents face and say "lol DD has no use", do you? (and powershielding is still very new, unlike dash dancing)

 

[Dr Peepee]

My basic idea was that I maintain a range right outside of an approach/laser range and then dash away PS WD in. Even if I don't get a hit I have an extremely strong positional advantage over Falco and can likely get a grab since he will be caught offguard.

I'd also like to mess with dash cancel crouch PS because Falco can't really stop Marth from dashing in without a laser for the most part so I think that could be pretty potent as well. Plus, I could be very close to him then and get an actual followup.

I just need to learn this stuff and master it. Then I'll be able to demonstrate it well, I'm sure. =)

 

[Armada]

KK: Watch Leffens Marth if he is playing at least okay.
I realized that shooting lasers is not worth it (against him) if he is on the ground (sometimes but then I have to shot them really low so I can jump over them and then approach with a nair or something).

 

[leffen]

My basic idea was that I maintain a range right outside of an approach/laser range and then dash away PS WD in. Even if I don't get a hit I have an extremely strong positional advantage over Falco and can likely get a grab since he will be caught offguard.

Thats super easy to beat tbh, you just fake one laser->fsmash/dashattack/etc
You can also shoot a low one and jump over it.

These options aren't viable at all vs Marths other powershields

As for dash cancel, if they shoot a high one, you don't need it.
If you're inside dash dance range, you can't dash cancel so you either dash back (suboptimal) or dash back->pivot->shield

 

[Dr Peepee]

Thats super easy to beat tbh, you just fake one laser->fsmash/dashattack/etc
You can also shoot a low one and jump over it.

These options aren't viable at all vs Marths other powershields

As for dash cancel, if they shoot a high one, you don't need it.
If you're inside dash dance range, you can't dash cancel so you either dash back (suboptimal) or dash back->pivot->shield

Well Marth only shields if he sees the laser at that distance, so a blank laser or a SH=no shield which means Marth can move in and stay spaced to avoid those attacks from Falco.

And yeah learning walking PS seems cool based on your last scenario so I will learn that as well. =)

 

[KirbyKaze]

We should theorycraft a reactive Bowser style that can beat medium level players

I think that would be fun

 

[john!]

opponent does anything -> up-b

 

[Chroma]

We should theorycraft a reactive Bowser style that can beat medium level players

I think that would be fun

Platform camp, shield into upB OOS / totally broken shield-dropped uairs/bairs, throw in down-b ledge camped ledge attacks on respawn or whenever you want because you're never taking any damage, let alone 100%. Don't forget to wavedash back into gimpyfish combo or klaw on reaction to shield because approaching and/or jumping are clearly terrible, and to find a droid that speaks the binary language of frame advantages on shields so that the pure power of theorybros can take you to victory.

or hang around near ledges and upb oos to the edge/ledge attack and cc tech everything so leffen's happy.

top5 character, 75-25 fox matchup, melee br membership plz

 

[Bones0]

Bowser's shield drop uair/bair won't even come out on some side platforms...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Bair would on every platform...

 

[ShrieK1295]

Platform camp, shield into upB OOS / totally broken shield-dropped uairs/bairs, throw in down-b ledge camped ledge attacks on respawn or whenever you want because you're never taking any damage, let alone 100%. Don't forget to wavedash back into gimpyfish combo or klaw on reaction to shield because approaching and/or jumping are clearly terrible, and to find a droid that speaks the binary language of frame advantages on shields so that the pure power of theorybros can take you to victory.

or hang around near ledges and upb oos to the edge/ledge attack and cc tech everything so leffen's happy.

top5 character, 75-25 fox matchup, melee br membership plz

lol good god. thanks for writing that

 

[Geenareeno]

opponent does anything -> up-b

I grabbed you in your sheild. Seriously this is how you beat Bowser.

 

[Kimimaru]

That's how you beat shields in general.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

You go for grab while bowser is in his shield, he sees it coming and up b's

 

[Ripple]

Dash dancing beats bowser

 

[TheLake]

Dash dancing beats everybody

except shiek **** that stupid characachuer

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

some serious ****ing knowledge is being dropped right now

grabs beat shields
moves beat grabs
dashdances bait moves
**** sheik

basically all you need to know about melee

 

[Tero.]

some serious ****ing knowledge is being dropped right now

grabs beat shields
moves beat grabs
dashdances bait moves
**** sheik

basically all you need to know about melee

Taunt after ****ing knee - last stock. Manly winning pose + sex with woman of your choice

also
**** shine after ****ing shine **** **** shine ****. GG

Dont forget the obvious stuff

 

[DerfMidWest]

Dash dance doesn't beat-
Oh wait...

 

[Bones0]

Grab > Shield > Attack > Grab is the RPS of Melee.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Grab is mad broke.

 

[Bones0]

Grab is mad broke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg9Rn0qs-gE

 

[TheLake]

God ken would **** me so hard if we played :/

 

[unknown522]

Grab often beats attack in Melee.

 

[Little England]

I was waiting for someone to say that. lol This RPS that people have made up hardly applies.

 

[Bones0]

Well you can't just take it as literally as possible. For example, if someone is spamming shield, you should attack less, and grab more. That's a pretty commonly accepted adaption.