Official BBR Tier List v5

[_Kain_]

Yes, cause results matter when certain chars never fight their hard CP's or Disadv MU's in the tournies they win.

Right Browny?

I guess tier list should just be based on how well chars do against MK

Get to work BBR

 

[Exceladon City]

Yes, cause results matter when certain chars never fight their hard CP's or Disadv MU's in the tournies they win.

Right Browny?

I guess tier list should just be based on how well chars do against MK

Get to work BBR

Good thing we Sonic mains stick to our character through thick and thin.

Spoiler

...for the most part

 

[Kantrip]

I guess tier list should just be based on how well chars do against MK

Get to work BBR

I agree. Diddy, Falco, Pikachu, Olimar, Wario, and Ice Climbers should have been better than Snake from the start.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Yes, cause results matter when certain chars never fight their hard CP's or Disadv MU's in the tournies they win.

Right Browny?

I guess tier list should just be based on how well chars do against MK

Get to work BBR

youre slow son, the tier list has been about who does best vs mk since like... v3.

 

[Deathfox30]

youre slow son, the tier list has been about who does best vs mk since like... v3.

Explain to me why Fox isn't high tier then.

 

[DMG]

Cause Fox too busy worrying about Pikachu and Shiek kicking his ***

 

[**Havok**]

Cause Fox too busy worrying about Pikachu and Shiek kicking his ***

Hmmm maybe... but then again I think the positives outweigh the negatives. I had TKD talk a little about Fox

http://ow.ly/5muAl

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Get to work BBR

Working on it.

~

DMG forgot Ice Climbers.

 

[Spelt]

Cause Fox too busy worrying about Pikachu and Shiek kicking his ***

except nobody plays sheik and i'm pretty sure foxes have a positive record against pikachus in tournament.

 

[theunabletable]

Cause Fox too busy worrying about Pikachu and Shiek kicking his ***

Yeah, you're right. If I had a nickel for every time I saw Fox lose to Pikachu or Sheik...

wait a second

I don't think I'd have any money at all

Also that talk with TKD was really good!

 

[_Kain_]

Yeah, you're right. If I had a nickel for every time I saw Fox lose to Pikachu or Sheik...

wait a second

I don't think I'd have any money at all

Also that talk with TKD was really good!

Because it barely happens...doesnt take away the fact he loses to them

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Your real-world play results are worthless because I have opinions!

 

[John12346]

Anti uses Sheik

If he faces TKD in tourney, he's good to go



On a more serious note, however, how many people think there should be some, if any characters between Z-Sheik and Sheik?

 

[theunabletable]

Because it barely happens...doesnt take away the fact he loses to them

I was mostly joking, but pointing out that it can't be THAT much of a contributing factor in why Fox is uncommon if they never end up playing Pikachus and Sheiks anyways lol.

Like if we have something that's unpopular, and our reason for it being unpopular is because of something happening, wouldn't it make sense if that something happening actually... you know... happened?

I wasn't saying that Fox did super well against Pikachu, Sheik, ICs, etc just because it never happens, or that it's not a contributing factor in why Fox doesn't appear. I'm more pointing out that I don't know which character wins the matchup, or by how much, and that there's no way anyone else could really know for sure how bad it is, or what the repercussions are on the popularity of Fox when Fox's never play against Sheiks/Pikas/ICs.

It can't be THAT big a deal for why he's unpopular if it doesn't happen lol

 

[Spelt]

Anti uses Sheik

If he faces TKD in tourney, he's good to go

inb4 anti gets 2 stocked while going sheik and switches back to mk.

On a more serious note, however, how many people think there should be some, if any characters between Z-Sheik and Sheik?

none, imo.
zelda is trash.

 

[John12346]

I still think there are some instances where Zelda helps out.

Killing earlier, plus there are those scarce matchups where Zelda has the advantage...

Although I do agree no characters should be between them... I feel they should be on different tiers

 

[Spelt]

Moves that kill don't do any good when you never hit with them.

Zelda does have a couple matches where she does better than sheik ... but that's still not enough to justify her bringing them above a whole other character, let alone multiple.

 

[John12346]

I've heard Zelda fares better than Sheik at the IC matchup, although it's still a disadvantage.
There's also the fact Zelda doesn't have to worry about Pika CGs.
Plus, the Dedede boards seem to think their MUs against Zelda and Sheik are the same(At 55:45 Dedede's favor).

That's something, I guess?

 

[_Kain_]

I was mostly joking, but pointing out that it can't be THAT much of a contributing factor in why Fox is uncommon if they never end up playing Pikachus and Sheiks anyways lol.

Like if we have something that's unpopular, and our reason for it being unpopular is because of something happening, wouldn't it make sense if that something happening actually... you know... happened?

I wasn't saying that Fox did super well against Pikachu, Sheik, ICs, etc just because it never happens, or that it's not a contributing factor in why Fox doesn't appear. I'm more pointing out that I don't know which character wins the matchup, or by how much, and that there's no way anyone else could really know for sure how bad it is, or what the repercussions are on the popularity of Fox when Fox's never play against Sheiks/Pikas/ICs.

It can't be THAT big a deal for why he's unpopular if it doesn't happen lol

Well yeah, theirs alot of MU's like that in this game cause well...the chances of said characters meeting aren't very popular. Which is why I said the tier list should just be made for how well you do against MK cause that's how it really seems to me anyway.

People argue MU's for said character when in reality the MU between two skilled players with each character has barely ever happened. Like say, Fox vs Sheik. So it's hard to really say Fox gets ***** when there really is no evidence to back it up other than LOL I CAN FTILT U TO DEATH

 

[Shaya]

Your real-world play results are worthless because I have opinions!

How you view real world results is somewhat biased in the first place anyway.
Holy moly, so when it comes down to it it's all opinions.

 

[theunabletable]

Well yeah, theirs alot of MU's like that in this game cause well...the chances of said characters meeting aren't very popular. Which is why I said the tier list should just be made for how well you do against MK cause that's how it really seems to me anyway.

Well ability to play against Diddy, Snake, and Falco would probably be important, since they don't seem that uncommon, but yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said

 

[Spelt]

I've heard Zelda fares better than Sheik at the IC matchup, although it's still a disadvantage.
There's also the fact Zelda doesn't have to worry about Pika CGs.
Plus, the Dedede boards seem to think their MUs against Zelda and Sheik are the same(At 55:45 Dedede's favor).

That's something, I guess?

Well that's what i meant by zelda having a couple better MUs than sheik.

How you view real world results is somewhat biased in the first place anyway.
Holy moly, so when it comes down to it it's all opinions.

Not the mention the fact that choosing who to play in tournament is based off of opinions too.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

How you view real world results is somewhat biased in the first place anyway.
Holy moly, so when it comes down to it it's all opinions.

Whoa, sholdier. I'm talking about like

"Pikachu beats Fox up"

Well, then why don't Pikachus usually beat Fox up that badly? Heh

I'm not saying the match-up isn't in Pikachu's favor but we love to pretend it's unwinnable. Meanwhile, high-level Fox players have a winning record against the little rat, which says something about the match-up and says it more loudly and definitely more clearly than a bunch of guys talking about it on the internet.

I have my opinions too (even controversial or outright strange ones) but when real life says something different, I tend to take a second look.

 

[DMG]

Well it's not unwinnable, but the way you talk we might as well say Fox BEATS Pika since he's positive against him in tournament. I mean having a positive record can only mean:

1. Character had better players for those sets

2. Character wins that MU

Hue?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Well it's not unwinnable, but the way you talk we might as well say Fox BEATS Pika since he's positive against him in tournament. I mean having a positive record can only mean:

1. Character had better players for those sets

2. Character wins that MU

Hue?

Nah DMG, it's pretty reasonable to assume that said Fox players were outplaying their Pikachu opponents. Fox loses to Pikachu, and I don't think anyone here is making claims otherwise.

With that said, it's a match-up where skill and execution (mostly strong execution) can make up for obvious, glaring deficiencies and classifying Pikachu as "unwinnable" seems disingenuous. But then, I guess we agree that it isn't, so there's not really an argument happening here is there?

With Sheik, it's pretty obvious to me that Fox doesn't stand much of a chance but there's not a lot of high-level Sheik/Fox play, so maybe someone will prove me wrong.

 

[Spelt]

I feel like i'm being one of the more level headed people in this thread right now and that kind of scares me.

 

[Yikarur]

I think the "unwinnable MU-Wagon" has already left, I didn't see people saying Foxika is unwinnable for a loooong time.

 

[theunabletable]

Well it's not unwinnable, but the way you talk we might as well say Fox BEATS Pika since he's positive against him in tournament. I mean having a positive record can only mean:

Pointing out that Fox is positive against tournament is important, and doesn't only mean those two things, or well that's oversimplifying what both of the conclusions effect.

If the matchup is uncommon enough, and when the matchup is played, Fox tends to win, doesn't mean that Fox wins the matchup. But boiling it down to "Either Fox wins the matchup, or Fox players are always outplaying Pikachu players" easily leads to "Fox players are always way outplaying Pikachu players", which, from there, it doesn't take much to lead to "Fox has to way outplay Pikachu to win", and then you end up way overestimating how bad the matchup is.

Like that's not always what happens, but boiling it down the way you have fuels confirmation bias. Not even acknowledging that Fox seems to beat Pikachu more in the real world (whether that's what the matchup is or not, I don't claim to know, nor do I think I know enough to actually know) than Pikachu seems to beat Fox is really silly.

It's a bad matchup probably, but hardly something that should keep Fox down if it doesn't actually do that in the real world.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Pointing out that Fox is positive against tournament is important, and doesn't only mean those two things, or well that's oversimplifying what both of the conclusions effect.

If the matchup is uncommon enough, and when the matchup is played, Fox tends to win, doesn't mean that Fox wins the matchup. But boiling it down to "Either Fox wins the matchup, or Fox players are always outplaying Pikachu players" easily leads to "Fox players are always way outplaying Pikachu players", which, from there, it doesn't take much to lead to "Fox has to way outplay Pikachu to win", and then you end up way overestimating how bad the matchup is.

Like that's not always what happens, but boiling it down the way you have fuels confirmation bias. Not even acknowledging that Fox seems to beat Pikachu more in the real world (whether that's what the matchup is or not, I don't claim to know, nor do I think I know enough to actually know) than Pikachu seems to beat Fox is really silly.

It's a bad matchup probably, but hardly something that should keep Fox down if it doesn't actually do that in the real world.

Yeah this is all I was saying.

 

[Tagxy]

Im pretty sure pika has a winning record over fox. Anther used to beat up on zeton and at some point TKD lost to terrys pika.

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah where did this idea of pika having a losing record to fox come from?

 

[Jimmyfosho]

most likely the one time zeton beat kprime at whobo.

 

[Alphicans]

Oh of course. A one time thing = winning record, how silly of me.

 

[Conviction]

>.>

<.<

Idk if I should mention anything...

 

[Nefarious B]

>.>

<.<

Idk if I should mention anything...

You seem like a chill guy, but wtf is up with posts like this?

Yes please please please enlighten me with your Fox knowledge. Is that what you're waiting for lol?

 

[Conviction]

Lol nah dog, I just don't think it's worth mentioning because it's was a while back...and idk if he would be cool with me mentioning it.

So without naming any names, I have a positive record against Pika including tourney matches and the Pika used to be PR'd in my state.

 

[V]

Who has the best anti-air options in the entire cast?

 

[Scatz]

Lol nah dog, I just don't think it's worth mentioning because it's was a while back...and idk if he would be cool with me mentioning it.

So without naming any names, I have a positive record against Pika including tourney matches and the Pika used to be PR'd in my state.

No. I don't think he'd be cool with you saying it either. Especially since it's old.

 

[Exceladon City]

Who has the best anti-air options in the entire cast?

 

[Juushichi]

What are you? Stupid? It's Diddy Kong.

<3 you tho Oreo.