Official BBR Tier List v5

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure you live in here.

 

[Spelt]

It's not my fault all of the other top posters are a bunch of ****ies and when they get called out on their obnoxious amount of posts they stop/slow down, while I just don't care.


+1 all dai

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

One might have to agree. Smashboards is there for when you are bored. Outside of actual practice, there is only a small portion the site can be useful for directly related to smash.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I dunno, Fox is pretty awesome, whereas Wolf is not awesome because he sucks and likes to yiff.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

On that note where do people think ZSS should be in the new list?

My opinion of top/high looks something like this:

Top:

S:
A:

High:
B:
C:


If anything I feel the biggest change in her placement is that Lucario moved up. He does seem to be a more well rounded character, and I don't think that it can be said that ZSS and Lucario should be paired together anymore like they have been for the past couple lists.

Olimar, huh? So high...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah I had him as #5 on my tier list a few pages back too. He's scary.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, Fox is pretty awesome, whereas Wolf is not awesome because he sucks and likes to yiff.

Both of them yiff.

But Wolf sucks less.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

GW is not a high tier character. Neither is Lucario.

Olimar may not be quite top5 but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was 6th. I think IC and Falco are both better though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Auspher, real talk: I think Fox is like one or two spots over Wolf, and that it is possible a tier barrier separates them, but I don't think Wolf sucks or anything. Of any character in mid tier right now Fox stands the best chance of moving to B, with Wolf somewhere at the top of C. Wolf mains have proven he isn't in fatally bad tier.

Now back to trolling: go yiff something.

Here's a modified list (up to top of mid) with DMG's criticism in mind:

Top:
S: MK
A: Diddy Kong, Snake
A-: Falco

High:
B: Olimar, Pikachu, ICs
B-: Wario, Marth
C: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, GaW, Fox

Mid:
D: Wolf somewhere up here

Here's how I interpret minuses: each time you see minus, it represents a situation where I feel the characters in a non-minus tier are ever-so-slightly worse. The tier below (C below B- for example) represents a more significant drop, but not a whole tier.

 

[Ishiey]

Gheb, are you with me that Lucario/G&W/ZSS moving down to mid-tier would be awesome and every tournament should then start hosting mid-tier side events? :3

 

[Shaya]

Gheb, are you with me that Lucario/G&W/ZSS moving down to mid-tier would be awesome and every tournament should then start hosting mid-tier side events? :3

I'm foreseeing some sort of Super tier of Marth/Lucario/G&W/ZSS with TL, Fox, Ike, Sonic and Wolf

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm undecided on ZSS. I think she lacks a really bad match-up against mid-tier characters to make her actually mid tier ... what's the worst she has? Arguable -1 match-ups against Fox and Pit are the worst I can think of [and I'm probably the one one who thinks Pit wins vs ZSS anyways and Fox looks closer to even than in anybody's favor]. Bottom of B-Tier is a solid placing for her imo

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't see ZSS as a good fit for mid tier because she wins at least slightly against most of mid tier. She probably loses to Fox, who I don't think belongs in mid tier anyway. Gheb, I think Pit is even.

As a side note, the match-up chart against most low tiers has some pretty "nice" ratios IMO. She absolutely stomps many of them. :\

Link, as an example: ZSS doesn't really have tools to gimp him off-stage, but his fastest option at close range is 7 frames and he isn't very good out of shield... so spaced dtilt kind of ruins his close-up options, and hitting his shield with a dsmash is practically a frame trap.

ZSS has some "meh" match-ups in high tier like Snake and some blatantly terrible ones too (Falco) but so do a few characters in B tier. I don't think one or even two bad match-ups is a good reason to exclude someone from high tier or Falco wouldn't be there.

 

[Ishiey]

Idk, I suppose ZSS would have great MUs for mid-tier but I don't think it's to the extent that she'd have any problems. IMO, Wolf has the same thing going for him, only 1-2 MUs that might be -1 below Lucario ZSS does have pretty solid high-tier MUs, I'm not saying that she shouldn't logically stay in high, just that I'd like to see her allowed in mid-tier tournaments lol

Most decent characters stomp on low tier, I don't think adding ZSS would really make it that much worse tbh :/

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Smashboards needs a support group for people who play Fox, Wolf, ZSS, etc. who are limited because of bad debugging

 

[zeldasmash]

Fox and Wolf are probably the most underrated mid tiers in Brawl.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Imo Lucario/ZSS/Fox/Wolf/Peach/Sheilda(I went there) are really close and if Id personally make a tier list Id have them share a spot together.

inb4loleurope@peach&sheilda

 

[Conviction]

Sheilda...

 

[Steam]

Lucario beats like all of low tier +1 or sometimes +2... lolz

 

[Hippieslayer]

DDD is just lower than he should be because everyone suck and need to play him like 9B did.

 

[Nefarious B]

GW is not a high tier character. Neither is Lucario.

Olimar may not be quite top5 but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was 6th. I think IC and Falco are both better though.

I agree that Falco is noticeably better, and ICs are IMO better as well, but for the time being ICs can't be higher on the tier list. I know that my opinion on them is based on potential, but in reality it may turn out that most good characters can time them out or camp them extremely well.

I think Olimar is the only character that has really made a strong case for being 5th. ICs could get it if BBR members take potential into account over results. Marth could get it by default if people are unwilling to give it to Olimar because of his heavy flaws (which I believe his ludicrous strengths make up for) and don't like ICs for 5th because lack of rep in nationals.

Whereas I have Olimar in 5th but could definitely understand him getting 6th, I see Wario as 6th but if anything I'd see him drop to 7th rather than take 5th.

 

[Chuee]

Lucario beats like all of low tier +1 or sometimes +2... lolz

nobody cares

 

[Steam]

nobody cares

seems relevant because we're comparing borderline mid/high tier characters and SFP brought up ZSS's low ter MUs.

stop trolling.

 

[Chuee]

seems relevant because we're comparing borderline mid/high tier characters and SFP brought up ZSS's low ter MUs.

stop trolling.

Any characters MUs with low tiers don't matter.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nef, I think it's probably time to accept that ICs has a few fatal flaws, such as their primary draw having a tech barrier that straddles the line of human ability; yeah, chain grabs aren't that hard and people can do them (hell, even I can do them lol) but it's a lot of consistency to ask for when many characters can camp them hard enough that they might only get one grab a match, and then top ICs player X just drops the grab anyway... On top of that, good players make Nana really sad and it's kinda easy to abuse how far they're pushed back when you hit their shield.

ICs are really really good, topish of high tier somewhere easily, and can do amazing things but the reality seems to be that it's asking a lot to place well at a large tournament with them solo.

Olimar is a better candidate for 5th, but it's close. I think Wario and Marth are both just slightly worse than the current A tier and not at all good candidates for 5th.

Err, chueee/steam: I only brought up low tier match-ups because I was trying to address the idea that ZSS doesn't "invalidate" many characters (meaning she might have a slightly harder time placing than other good characters, because say, a Mario or Bowser has a better chance at beating her than most of the other high tiers). For most other characters it isn't really that important.

 

[Steam]

@SFP- it's pretty much the same thing for lucario lmao. though I know GW destroys a lot of low tiers.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ignore post

 

[Shaya]

SFP, I saw that post.

You should probably tell me who told you that =)

 

[DMG]

Whoever said that was oversimplifying it and got it a bit wrong. First part we are doing is not even close to solidifying character placements, even for fringe characters.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

SFP, I saw that post.

You should probably tell me who told you that =)

No one in the BBR told me that.

DMG: I changed my post because of the possibility I didn't know all of the details (not because I was trying to protect anyone) so yeah.

 

[Steam]

I hope Lucario is low tier like he supposedly used to be in japan. would be cool.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lucario isn't Low Tier in Japan at all 0_o

 

[phi1ny3]

He used to be from a really old list, of course that was like in 08-09 when it came out, but still...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario is the worst character in the game, worse than Ganon.

When will people realize this?

 

[Chuee]

when mk drops below pikachu.

 

[phi1ny3]

Hear hear! He can't approach and gets gimped and has slow movez, who cares about his aura and 8-10 frame duration on half his moves? He just sux

 

[Steam]

lucario is garbage. he's only good at getting *****.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He's a great punching bag.

 

[Metakill]

Wolf should be low tier... i need to main a low tier...x d

 

[Chuee]

Wolf should be low tier... i need to main a low tier...x d

In that case can MK be low tier too?
I need someone to use for low tier tourneys.