Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

[Vex Kasrani]

Because we feel that everywhere bans it unjustly. We feel that there's no reason to ban it, and that most of the reasons why it was banned were overblown overreactions to



It isn't really. Neither is effectively beatable except on certain stages (for planking: stages without ledges, brinstar, norfair; for circle camping: stages without solid stages). MK planking falls under "stalling", AFAIK. And I support an MK-only LGL.

I support a LGL for MK only also, however, how would you be able to call out an MK stalling, if he gets on the ledge, stays there for like, ~45 seconds, comes back on with an invincible attack or torando, then gets right back on? These things also require judges, which imo, is ineffective, they should use something that can be checked post match at the score screen.

 

[CTX]

God I love being in the Midwest where there isn't an "MK problem"...

 

[Ussi]

Speed circle camps a scrub on norfair, omg we must ban it! Its like Sonic is gonna win tourneys circle camping on norfair!

No Sonic has won a tourney like this cause it doesnt work on good people otherwise Speed would have kept doing it

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Speed circle camps a scrub on norfair, omg we must ban it! Its like Sonic is gonna win tourneys circle camping on norfair!

No Sonic has won a tourney like this cause it doesnt work on good people otherwise Speed would have kept doing it

Scribz isn't that bad... and Speed took havok to third game last hit, by running away each game. Ussi wanna MM my Sonic on norfair? I guarantee its a very powerful tactic not to be taken lightly at all.

Actually, I rather not MM as it would prove nothing at all, please excuse that.

And Sonic needs the % lead to do that, you do realize thats hard to do vs characters like MK right? Doesn't mean it's not an overpowered strategy though, Sonic vs MK on norfair pretty much boils down to whoever gets the first correct guess in, then either MK planks or Sonic camps the top platforms.

 

[Overswarm]

surprised the rulse set doesn't include OS's custom stages tbh

Soon... soon...

But seriously, custom stages as a whole were a success in a localized environment. The issue comes with having stages that work with a stage list being used as well as distribution of the stages.

That said, you'd see custom stages at MLG tournaments prior to seeing them on a BBR ruleset, I'd wager.

 

[Ussi]

Scribz isn't that bad... and Speed took havok to third game last hit, by running away each game. Ussi wanna MM my Sonic on norfair? I guarantee its a very powerful tactic not to be taken lightly at all.

Actually, I rather not MM as it would prove nothing at all, please excuse that.

And Sonic needs the % lead to do that, you do realize thats hard to do vs characters like MK right? Doesn't mean it's not an overpowered strategy though, Sonic vs MK on norfair pretty much boils down to whoever gets the first correct guess in, then either MK planks or Sonic camps the top platforms.

i'm assuming it was Havok's first time encounter with Sonic circle camping on norfair. (and it woulf be mine too if we MM'd :/) i wonder how it would go a 2nd time. Would Havok still be taken to last hit?

 

[Overswarm]

Has the 8 minute timer been discussed? It should be either 9 or 10 minutes imo

We've discussed the 8 minute timer.

Some claim it should be 9 or 10 minutes, most vocal being Mew2King, as it makes "timing out" a less common occurrence.

Fact of the matter is, timeouts occur in less than 1% of matches and the majority of timeouts occur not by accident, but on purpose. Characters like Wario are especially suited for this. There is the rare occasion where safe and clever play can result in a timeout, and some stages like PS1 or Luigi's Mansion contribute to timeouts considerably, but all in all it's pretty much done on purpose.

This brings up the question of "is a timeout a worthwhile victory condition". While others may find it distasteful, timeouts are a part of many major sports and competitive games, and stalling the clock is not uncommon. You see it in Football, you see it in Street Fighter, you see it everywhere. Timeouts also do not allow for random winners, but actually consistent ones; so consistent it can become a strategy for players like Masky.

With this information in hand, we decided to keep the timer at 8 minutes for the time being. Most matches finish well before that, and altering the time limit to be longer would be influencing matches in a way that harms those would prefer to force a timeout on their opponent. As less than 1% of matches time out and timeouts are a viable strategy, that would be unacceptable

 

[Kewkky]

Scribz isn't that bad... and Speed took havok to third game last hit, by running away each game. Ussi wanna MM my Sonic on norfair? I guarantee its a very powerful tactic not to be taken lightly at all.

Actually, I rather not MM as it would prove nothing at all, please excuse that.

And Sonic needs the % lead to do that, you do realize thats hard to do vs characters like MK right? Doesn't mean it's not an overpowered strategy though, Sonic vs MK on norfair pretty much boils down to whoever gets the first correct guess in, then either MK planks or Sonic camps the top platforms.

I bet I could just use Falco or Fox and make it impossible for you to do that whole circle camping thing. pew pew pew

 

[Overswarm]

The whole stagelist is a conspiracy to overpower MK until he gets voted ban!....

....kidding. Or am I? <_< >_> <_> *flees*

I wish. That'd be awesome.


But, no. Fact of the matter is, if we vote MK to not be banworthy, we can't exactly go around removing every possible advantage he could have to make him playable. Metaknight is overpowered and I believe he should be banned. That said, if he's not going to be banned we shouldn't be hamstringing him to try to make ends meet. You can't have it both ways!

I lol'd at distant planet. Good luck convincing EC TO's to run that list.

It's not about convincing. It's a fact that these stages have not had the tournament play to show that they need to be banned; many of the arguments for them to be banned are based on one-time events in 2008 or theorycraft.

EC tournaments don't have to run this stagelist at all; no one does. They can edit it as they see fit. They would be doing a community service by running a tournament with this stages and recording matches and reporting issues though.

This list is more ******** then the tier list.

I would like to ask you guys this though. WTF were you thinking when you made this list? Seriously. What?

The basic theme is "it ain't broke just cuz someone sed it dun broke. Show me that them there eviDANCE."

You guys put back Nofair? Are you out of your minds? Have fun catching Meta or even falco when they get the lead and run. There is nothing any character can do about this. Nothing. You guys work for this community to make things fair and legit. You boys are failing so freaking hard.

The jury has found me criminally insane, but I'm out on good behavior.

You've created a fallacy in your paragraph on its own. "Have fun catching META or FALCO when they get the lead and run", right? Why is that followed by "there is nothing any character can do about this"? Doesn't that imply that MK could catch Falco or vice versa?

I've played on this stage extensively, and it isn't that big of a deal to catch someone running away. Claims that you can't are... highly exaggerated. I'm an MK main myself, and Wario is waaaaaay harder to catch here than MK. This stage has also recently shown use at the highest level of play: MLG. No issues are being found. The evidence to ban this stage is just not there, and most of the complaints are from specific individuals that just don't LIKE it.

Luigi's is back? De que diablo.......

You know what you people just did? You just made meta even more of a beast then he already is. Now there is no way you can make things less stressful. You just gave this *** MORE counterpicks.

Luigi's Mansion is a funny stage; everyone always says a different character is broken there. It's actually one of my most hated stages to be taken to as Metaknight because it's SO BAD for MK in so many matchups. Playing an Olimar on this stage is hell as MK!

That said, we'll see how this goes. I've yet to see MK dominance here, and many characters like Lucario, DK, Olimar, etc. all do very well here.

Do you not think about the damage that would happen bringing all this back? Did you forget the reasons these stages were done for? Have you forgotten when if comes to money, people will be as gay as hell to get it? This is a crappy, gay game for competition called BRAWL. And In Brawl we have one character that is the answer for everything. And nothing can stop it. And that is Meta Knight.

Also, more gay tactics in this game are back. Maybe worst than ever now. This Game for competition has officially become BS. Straight up BS. This is a Game where everyone HAS to pick meta knight. Cause of you don't you are gonna get screwed worst than before. W/e lil chance you had to win is done.

Metagames for characters are done. They won't advance. cause meta will just **** it all up now. or people will be busy funny to meta knight. This came fun (w/e it had that is) is freaking done. More people gonna quit this garbage and go right back to melee. In melee you don't go through so much BS like this game. This **** is insane.

I would also like to give props to meta players that posted in this and felt the same way. not bias about your character and know the deal. You have my respect when when using him.

I swear, this freaking community is one big *** joke. I have no words for you guys. I seriously don't. I'm just gonna get this out the way now. GG guys. GG. Meta is gonna be all over the place now.TYop 8 will be stacked with meta know. Lost gonna main him or just quit this trash *** game for comp. And guess who made it trash? You people with these ******** rulesets. 2 years with this, a room filled with the superiors of the brawl community, the secret society, and this is what you come up with? Pathetic!

...........unless you are doing this to have meta destroy and have a legit reason to bann him. Is that it? Please tell me that is what you guys are up too. It has to be it. No one can be this insane. Yes, it must be it. Oh BBR. You guys got me good. Oh man. That was good one.

Meta is going to be all over the place? He already is. I'm not exactly sure what adding more stages changes for that though... considering he can only pick one CP in the first place in a bo3, having more options to choose from doesn't change much if he had two good options to choose from before.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'd love to come back to this thread and debate, but it looks like that isn't going to happen until all of the alarmists leave / get their infractions / get banned for spamming and flaming. It's cool, though; spending alone time with my girlfriend is a competitively viable alternative to bashing my head against a wall in this thread.

...at least, FOR NOW. Again, thank you, BBR, for having the balls to post a stage list that you knew was going to piss off the community because you knew it was the right list to post. Those of us who AREN'T insane alarmists appreciate it.

...fix that voter rate. I'm going to keep saying it. ^_-

 

[Xyro77]

YAHOO! Im glad to see the SBR is still just as messed up as it was now that im gone. Good job guys! Another rule-set i get to ignore/not recommend to any TO.



edit: i do like the fact you guys added port town though. its my fav stage in the freakin game. so good **** on that part.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I'd love to come back to this thread and debate, but it looks like that isn't going to happen until all of the alarmists leave / get their infractions / get banned for spamming and flaming. It's cool, though; spending alone time with my girlfriend is a competitively viable alternative to bashing my head against a wall in this thread.

...at least, FOR NOW. Again, thank you, BBR, for having the balls to post a stage list that you knew was going to piss off the community because you knew it was the right list to post. Those of us who AREN'T insane alarmists appreciate it.

...fix that voter rate. I'm going to keep saying it. ^_-

huuuuuuuuuush mr items (smirk)

 

[Overswarm]

This is an utter joke haha.

Good job backroom members! You've once again managed to prove that there ARE undiscovered depths of idiocy that mankind hasn't quite reached yet.

If you want to be taken seriously as a community you need to amend this. People already snicker behind their hand at you as a whole, don't make it worse.

I'll be sure to buy an extra pillow for when guests come over. Don't want them seeing my tear-stained pillow after long nights of oth-

Eh, I got tired of that. tl;dr = i disagree

 

[Jack Kieser]

huuuuuuuuuush mr items (smirk)

Watch it, or I'll throw a Mr. Saturn at you. It true combos into Reverse Ganon Punch, trufax.

...look it up.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Watch it, or I'll throw a Mr. Saturn at you. It true combos into Reverse Ganon Punch, trufax.

...look it up.

If I decide to hold my shield vs mr saturn, yep, 2 broke obv.

 

[Overswarm]

Wait a minute, WAIT A MINUTE!

Are we saying here that anyone who attempts and succeeds in a suicide move is rewarded by nothing more than a simple one-stock replay? How... how can this be? A lot of these said suicide moves can be easily telegraphed and defeated, anyone who falls for these moves deserves to lose. Otherwise, there's no incentive to even use these moves in the first place. This has to be an oversight. It really has to be.

Let me explain my position on this. You can go "Blah blah no one uses Ganon blah blah Ganon sucks," but that can't be an excuse for you to make this rule change and completely bone him. Now not only do you take away Ganon's reliable method of punishing overaggressive edgeguarders, but if you go by the game's verdict, Ganondorf doesn't even go into Sudden Death against some characters- HE OUTRIGHT LOSES! Considering how much of a high risk move this is (smart players can just edgehog Ganon if he attempts a suicide move and beat him), punishing him for landing this is outright ludicrous.

I cannot allow this. This is unacceptable.

I understand your grievance with this, and others mentioned similar thoughts in the BBR.

But would you be okay with Captain Falcon winning a match if he landed a falcon punch?

No? Why not?

Because the game didn't say so, and simply using a risky move should not be given an arbitrary reward. The game tells you that you lose, you lose. Game tells you that you win, you win. Game tells you that it's a tie, it's a tie and we have a one stock remtach for that.

Changing the actual outcome of a game based on an arbitrary preference on a style of play or by giving "cool points" for doing something awesome is not competitively sound. We can't directly buff weaker characters any more than we can weaken strong characters, it wouldn't be fair.

 

[~TBS~]

Whaaat ._.

That match i had was plain crazy Vex...I panicked. There's much more that i could have done because im not sure if that circle camping at the top is completely legit. It looks like it has its uses, but it can be beaten, especially by MK. But Sonic can definitely do alot more than what I tried to do looool.

About Havok, uh...that was luck. I dont think i took him to Norfair though. o_o

@Kewkky
fffffffffffffffffffffff

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Whaaat ._.

That match i had was plain crazy Vex...I panicked. There's much more that i could have done because im not sure if that circle camping at the top is completely legit. It looks like it has its uses, but it can be beaten, especially by MK. But Sonic can definitely do alot more than what I tried to do looool.

About Havok, uh...that was luck. I dont think i took him to Norfair though. o_o

@Kewkky
fffffffffffffffffffffff

Don't lie to the public!

 

[Jack Kieser]

Ok, I feel a little more secure about leaving the thread alone for a while, now that Overswarm is here to deal with the foolishness and bad debating.

Thanks, OS; I can sleep easy now. ^_^

 

[Overswarm]

Is this really serious? OMG...

Luigi's mansion? Distant planet?? PORT TOWN?!?!?

I'm too glad this is just a recommended rule set, honestly it's a little sad too look at >.>

Do you have any evidence as to why these stages should be banned? In the areas they've been used, we've seen consistent and fair results and it seems to be more a matter of preference rather than actual necessity when looking at whether or not to ban them in a region. As the BBR, we can't ban things on preference and have no reason to ban them, so they stay.

You're a high level player, so if you'd like to do some good for the community and truly believe these stages should be banned, go research the stages, make some videos of you playing on them in and out of tournament, then give us your commentary. With a day's work you could singlehandedly remove a stage from the stagelist, assuming your evidence was sound.

 

[solecalibur]

...at least, FOR NOW. Again, thank you, BBR, for having the balls to post a stage list that you knew was going to piss off the community because you knew it was the right list to post. Those of us who AREN'T insane alarmists appreciate it.

...fix that voter rate. I'm going to keep saying it. ^_-

Lol YES piss off ppl that means change and change is good amirite?

 

[Overswarm]

can someon just ban buget player conect he lives in like an island in russia and has never been to a tournament and probably never even played anyone in this game outside of wifi

And you're a low level player from St. Louis whose idea of "travel" is going somewhere else in the midwest every once in a while. So? The whole "appeal to authority" thing doesn't work, it never has. Mew2King and ADHD are two of the worst sources you could use for game balance, and they're great at this game. Everyone can have good or bad ideas, and everyone can contribute them.

 

[Yikarur]

why is big blue banned? o:

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I understand your grievance with this, and others mentioned similar thoughts in the BBR.

But would you be okay with Captain Falcon winning a match if he landed a falcon punch?

No? Why not?

Because the game didn't say so, and simply using a risky move should not be given an arbitrary reward. The game tells you that you lose, you lose. Game tells you that you win, you win. Game tells you that it's a tie, it's a tie and we have a one stock remtach for that.

Changing the actual outcome of a game based on an arbitrary preference on a style of play or by giving "cool points" for doing something awesome is not competitively sound. We can't directly buff weaker characters any more than we can weaken strong characters, it wouldn't be fair.

It's hard to argue with this reasoning, although I will say that this rule even came up in conversation seems a little strange. Which one of you guys said "Hey, Ganon players shouldn't be awarded free wins if they land side-b on last stock?" It seems like a petty thing to want to change.

With that said, again, I agree rules like this fall apart under logical inspection.... it's just, well, who cares?

EDIT: By the way, it isn't good enough to just shout exclamatory remarks in reaction to the rule set. You have to actually argue something that isn't an appeal to authority, because those arguments don't matter. I'm looking at you, tyrant, ADHD, etc.

 

[Overswarm]

I just hope TO's everywhere are smart enough not to use this piece of trash. Otherwise, this game is literally done.

You do realize that the BBR members voting also consist of the most prevalent TOs out there, right?

The hyperbole isn't really necessary. It doesn't really help, and it's incorrect. There are regions that are MORE liberal than this stagelist based off the reasons of "this stage is awesome", and their communities are still fine.

 

[CTX]

Lol @ more trollin' BBR'ers

 

[Overswarm]

Care to elaborate on why Distant Planet/Port Town/Luigi's Mansion were decided to be back? Theres a reason Luigi's was removed from every region, and why Port Town/Distant Planet haven't been put in. You're just feeding the MK's more CP's (I main MK and I can even say this) "I ban brinstar" "K distant planet frigate delfino port town or rainbow, which would you like me to go to, sir falco main?"

After ruleset:

"I ban brinstar" "K distant planet frigate delfino port town or rainbow, which would you like me to go to, sir falco main?"

Before ruleset:

"I ban brinstar" "K frigate delfino or rainbow, which would you like me to go to, sir falco main?"



I'm not seeing a difference in quantity, as MK can only pick one (or two in a bo5) stages, just a variety now. It could be said that the addition or port town and distant planet could be harmful for MK with other characters as well.

 

[solecalibur]

Do you have any evidence as to why these stages should be banned? In the areas they've been used, we've seen consistent and fair results and it seems to be more a matter of preference rather than actual necessity when looking at whether or not to ban them in a region. As the BBR, we can't ban things on preference and have no reason to ban them, so they stay.

sound.

We have not found fair and consistent results for any of those stages lol. I welcome customs before these stages in tourney play. It doesn't matter if it's just random but just the ability to hit another into a hazard and ko early isn't a cp but more of a player vs player vs stage situation

 

[CTX]

Seriously, can we give Metal an award or something for making this post? The rage/discontent/petty jabs made by both sides is soo lulzy

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm just curious:

does anyone who plays on PTAD regularly find that they die to hazards more often than they would on say, Halberd, Brinstar, or Lylat? I play friendlies frequently on PTAD because I like the stage and find that the hazards on Brinstar and Lylat (I'm referring to the stage tilts) to interfere with normal gameplay more often, not less, once I learned the stage. This is particularly true of Brinstar, a stage which is legal and not often contested as being legal, even in the EC where stages with intrusive hazards are almost never legal.

The alarmism in this thread is again, astounding and smells strongly of conservative ignorance. Keep an open mind. Or hell, don't, and have your TO ban the stages, it isn't that big a deal. People already ignore most of the BBR's recommended stage list in almost every region.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm just curious:

does anyone who plays on PTAD regularly find that they die to hazards more often than they would on say, Halberd, Brinstar, or Lylat? I play friendlies frequently on PTAD because I like the stage and find that the hazards on Brinstar and Lylat (I'm referring to the stage tilts) to interfere with normal gameplay more often, not less, once I learned the stage. This is particularly true of Brinstar, a stage which is legal and not often contested as being legal, even in the EC where stages with intrusive hazards are almost never legal.

I've played on PTAD a bunch, and despite knwing when the cars are coming, it's a major interruption to the pace of the game and still poses the threat to unfairly rob a stock from someone if you grab them and toss them into it or something. I don't think a lot of the BBR considered if you're forced to get away and you're near your opponent, they can do anything pretty much to launch you into the cas and kill you at 30%.

I'd honestly be totally down for PTAD if the cars didn't deal 25% and KOed at 40%.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I always play there at least once a smashfest. I legitimately love that stage. But I enjoy it because it's a break from the normal, not because I feel it should be used in tournament. It's a broken stage.

And you know, not all hazards are avoidable if you're hit into them.

 

[Overswarm]

I just noticed that FD should only be used in at least a 7-stage neutral system

apparently it's less neutral than Yoshi's Island, Lylat, and Pokemon Stadium adn about as neutral as Castle Siege


(if I'm reading that right)

No stage is "neutral". Stage striking must be done when looking at the stage list as a whole.

 

[Steam]

I still think this stage list is absolutely broken for D3 if YI pipes is legal. to the point where anyone could CP it just to scare them off their CG-able main or get wall infinited/walked-off and basically auto lose D3's CP.

but in general winning game 1 will be SUPER IMPORTANT because of the CP strength.

 

[Juushichi]

Guys complaining about the stage list:

Sup, 2.0?

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Delfino (moved from S/C)
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned
Distant Planet (moved from C)
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion (moved from C)
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) (moved from C)
Norfair (moved from C)

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria (moved from C)
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone (moved from C)
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit (moved from C/B)
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett (moved from C/B)
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld (moved from C/B)
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Sup, 3.0?

Starter/Counter

* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Island
* Smashville

* Lylat Cruise
* Pokémon Stadium

* Final Destination
* Castle Siege

* Delfino Plaza
* Halberd


Counterpick

* Luigi's Mansion
* Norfair
* Frigate Orpheon
* Pokémon Stadium 2
* Port Town Aero Dive
* Distant Planet
* Pictochat
* Jungle Japes
* Rainbow Cruise
* Green Greens
* Brinstar


Counter/Banned

* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Pirate Ship


Banned

* Mushroomy Kingdom 1
* Mushroomy Kingdom 2
* Mario Circuit
* Rumble Falls
* Bridge of Eldin
* Spear Pillar
* Wario Ware
* New Pork City
* Summit
* Skyworld
* 75m
* Mario Bros.
* Flat Zone 2
* Hanenbow
* Shadow Moses Island
* Green Hill Zone
* Temple
* Onett
* Corneria
* Big Blue

Some stuff was changed around in terms of derivation, but things were ultimately unchanged? Mother of god, this stageset is terrible! Let's go back to 2.0! (Wait, wha?) Reading all this thread, I haven't actually seen an argument for Yoshi's Island not to be in place of Final Destination. In terms of the 3/5/7/9 distinctions, I'm actually in a good place. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them.

Oh yeah, for those people talking about "neutrals"... even in the previous stage list they were marked as starters and not neutrals. There's a whole argument set that can go into "is FD really neutral?" that's been made by better people than I. But now you can't really argue the fact.

The MK boogeyman is a big one (and one I even encountered last week, lol), but ultimately this ruleset was not made with him at the forefront of the BBR's mind, nor do I believe it should be. Counterpicks should be a little polarizing in order to show character traits. Emphasis in series is almost always win the first game... because winning the first game is statistically proven to generally help you win the whole set.

/randomMWmarioscrub

Someone should pull up my videos to show how bad I am. I need to work on my Mario anyway. <3

 

[Jack Kieser]

I always play there at least once a smashfest. I legitimately love that stage. But I enjoy it because it's a break from the normal, not because I feel it should be used in tournament. It's a broken stage.

And you know, not all hazards are avoidable if you're hit into them.

If you're hit into them, you were outplayed. Especially if they give you warning.

 

[Overswarm]

We have not found fair and consistent results for any of those stages lol. I welcome customs before these stages in tourney play. It doesn't matter if it's just random but just the ability to hit another into a hazard and ko early isn't a cp but more of a player vs player vs stage situation

Eh? I've been playing in multiple tournaments since 2008 and have run circuits and and and and


Hitting another player into a hazard is a skillful act; they aren't random.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The cars KO at 65% on mid-weights, I believe. Can anyone confirm the exact percents with proper DI?

With that aside, "interfering with the pace of gameplay" isn't a very good reason to ban a stage. Do you know how often I've missed grabs with tether characters on Lylat because of stage tilts, or had my tethers just fail because I'm just out of reach after a tilt? Even ZSS' side-b randomly just doesn't connect on Lylat all the time. Yes, these things aren't killing me at 65% or whatever, but these are also pervasive regular occurrences and not something that might happen once ever ten games, unlike PTAD's hazards which are admittedly quite profound but shouldn't actually cause any large problems when both players know the stage. If you don't know the stage I could see you losing to hazards often, but I'm not sure I have much sympathy for that person.

And don't even get me started on Brinstar.

I believe stages where hazards interfere often are worse than stages in which hazards interfere only occasionally but have stronger interferences, I guess.

 

[clowsui]

look

if the BBR is composed of a bunch of misguided morons, then think about it this way:
since they're moronic in everything they do, there's no way you can expect them in their idiocy to see how "stupid" stages are, regardless of how simple it may be. therefore, you should present to them a thorough and simple to understand reporting on why the stages are broken.

you can do this in multiple ways:
1. controlled variable testing
2. friendly and tournament matches with commentary or with a clear demonstration of a "broken" element
2a. win tournaments using certain tactics on stages
3. use frame + pictoral data (very difficult to do it this way)

since it's so "obvious" that these stages are broken, then it really shouldn't take much effort at all to show why they're broken right? i don't have a preference as to how the stage list is, really but my main concern is how people like to cite isolated incidents without video/picture footage, argue about stages with limited reasoning and to descend to personal attacks (seriously, the midwest isn't "bad" just because we have liberal lists).

PERSONALLY as a falco main and marf secondary it'd be really nice to have a more conservative stage list + i think that metaknight is broken but i'm all for the community being happy so we should create a stage list to keep him in the metagame (even though i still don't support LGL or scrooging rules, lol), but that's my own personal bias. in the end, for the sake of comprehensively proving why we shouldn't have x or y stages my logical and reasonable side comes through and i demand data.

EDIT: btw steam...

I still think this stage list is absolutely broken for D3 if YI pipes is legal. to the point where anyone could CP it just to scare them off their CG-able main or get wall infinited/walked-off and basically auto lose D3's CP.

but in general winning game 1 will be SUPER IMPORTANT because of the CP strength.

you'd have to be an idiot to get grabbed by ddd on pipes, you have to be right next to him...i'm talking your hurtbox has to intersect his hurtbox close LOL

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Guys complaining about the stage list:

Sup, 2.0?


Sup, 3.0?


Some stuff was changed around in terms of derivation, but things were ultimately unchanged? Mother of god, this stageset is terrible! Let's go back to 2.0! (Wait, wha?) Reading all this thread, I haven't actually seen an argument for Yoshi's Island not to be in place of Final Destination. In terms of the 3/5/7/9 distinctions, I'm actually in a good place. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them.

Oh yeah, for those people talking about "neutrals"... even in the previous stage list they were marked as starters and not neutrals. There's a whole argument set that can go into "is FD really neutral?" that's been made by better people than I. But now you can't really argue the fact.

The MK boogeyman is a big one (and one I even encountered last week, lol), but ultimately this ruleset was not made with him at the forefront of the BBR's mind, nor do I believe it should be. Counterpicks should be a little polarizing in order to show character traits. Emphasis in series is almost always win the first game... because winning the first game is statistically proven to generally help you win the whole set.

/randomMWmarioscrub

Someone should pull up my videos to show how bad I am. I need to work on my Mario anyway. <3

Thank you for being intelligent and realizing how little of a difference this really is in terms of the stage list. No one seems to realize that Stage List 2.0 was almost identical. People still cherry-picked the stages that they wanted. There's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with people doing that now.