Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[-Mars-]

Matador you need to realize that when people think of viable...they think of like top 8 at nationals.

So they usually mean like 8-12 characters are viable.

 

[Tagxy]

Of course you haven't heard of me.
I would have to place top 8 in a national for that to happen.
i'm guessing that's why i've never heard of you, or any other mario main for that matter

If the only people you know are those that place top 8 at nationals then you need to get off of wifi and start going to tournaments before you expect to be taken seriously. The only reason you wouldnt know of him or make such silly claims is because you are ignorant of smash's offline community.

Anyways, you tried to call him out for not being good by comparing yourself to him and were flat out wrong. Accept it and move on.

 

[Spelt]

If the only people you know are those that place top 8 at nationals then you need to get off of wifi and start going to tournaments before you expect to be taken seriously. The only reason you wouldnt know of him or make such silly claims is because you are ignorant of smash's offline community.

Yo dawg, i know aaaall about tournaments. They're those things where a bunch of people get together to experiment with illegal substances.

Anyways, you tried to call him out for not being good by comparing yourself to him and were flat out wrong. Accept it and move on.

PRETTY sure he's never placed top 8 in a national, which he and i both have in common. so i wasn't wrong.



I'll accept your apology in both letter and email form. but if you choose the former you must use human blood as the ink.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

can i get actual imput besides ftilt? i mean seriously any1 who plays this game has had to learn how to deal with snake's ftilt. and besides as amazing as his ftilt is.... all pit has to do is run away and pivot arrow. or mirror. or clash it with utilt. i can go on but these general pit tactics are probably gonna be flamed as it is even any1 who does not use these characters or at least study this match up should not bother flaming as i will just shut it down with proven fact and evidence.

 

[-Mars-]

yeah i know he doesnt like me, thats why its funny LOL and i don't owe you **** WTF

What is X saying bout me??? I mite need ta tap dat ***

N yuppp afterwards you was like "son lemme play you with my MK and Diddy" then "son I can't beat your Sheik what do I do" then "uhhhhh I only got a 20 lemme pay you back later"

I is still waiting.

 

[Matador]

Matador you need to realize that when people think of viable...they think of like top 8 at nationals.

So they usually mean like 8-12 characters are viable.

If that's the case, 8 is a streeeeetch...

 

[Steam]

I like how spelt is succesfully trolling

also spelt doesn't play wifi. only offline

 

[da K.I.D.]

where the hell does spelt even live, Ive been trying to figure this out forever.

as many tournament results threads as i go over and ive still never seen his name, I can only assume he places like crap in a super scrubby region.

 

[-Mars-]

Spelt is from Colorado.

Home of the Nuggets.

 

[da K.I.D.]

soooo... i was right...

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Yo dawg, i know aaaall about tournaments. They're those things where a bunch of people get together to experiment with illegal substances.



PRETTY sure he's never placed top 8 in a national, which he and i both have in common. so i wasn't wrong.



I'll accept your apology in both letter and email form. but if you choose the former you must use human blood as the ink.

wow..... you're either a super troll or you enoy being a douche to others. either way calling us people who get out of the house and go to tournies substance abusers is untrue and uncalled for. while substance abuse will be prevelent in all societies due to the TRAGIC hold drug addiction has on america. you shouldn't joke about that ****. do you even know wat it is like to watch your friends be taken over by meth? or have you had to save your friend's life from drug dealers who mistook him for someone else when he was walking down the street. have you even been in hand to hand combat? or how about have you ever exhausted your bank accounts to help the people you love get help to get off drug addiction? and as a result HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO GO 4 WHOLE DAYS WITHOUT EATING BECAUSE YOU SPENT YOUR MONEY HELPING YOUR FRIENDS BETTER THEMSELVES?!

i have. so **** you. you are a ignorant piece of **** who probably lives at home with his parent(s). you know nothing of the drug underworld. you don't know how hard it is to keep the resolve it takes to stay clean. i do. i kept sharp and stayed clean despite the trouble i went through with some of the dealers. and now that i've moved from that place i can only hope that no1 in the smash community ever has gone or ever goes through wat i did. so **** you.

 

[stingers]

yo props to maharba...really that was some real ****. im sorry bro but im glad you're here with us today =]

 

[Matador]

Yeah Spelt. Have you ever been in hand to hand combat?

Don't joke about this ****.

 

[Ussi]

You're only feeding him the desire to keep going, best to just put him on ignore to save yourself the anger

 

[vato_break]

i don't remember mars but, i guess i will believe you since i was just a socal scrub back then i lost to everyone haha.(how i made it out of pools, i will never know)

 

[-Mars-]

Yeah Spelt. Have you ever been in hand to hand combat?

Don't joke about this ****.

lolololol. that's siggable.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

yo props to maharba...really that was some real ****. im sorry bro but im glad you're here with us today =]

thank you stingers. i really appreciate that

 

[Judo777]

I don't know much about the pit MU but i know snakes frame data and I'm sure this relates as it does to sheik also but, pit loses clanks. If you clank snake ftilt, he can ftilt again and you have no options that fast bar utilt 1 which will not clank with snakes ftilt. Clanking snake is a bad idea and pit is quite vulnerable to people clanking his moves since his moves are quite slow (I clank pits fsmash with jab all day lol).

 

[MK26]

so...uh...on a (hopefully?) less inflaming topic, does anybody wanna see a weighted matchup chart that takes character popularity into account?

 

[stingers]

that'd be really cool, MK o.o let us know when you're done, i'd be really interested in seeing it

 

[Max Ketchum]

Watch it, kids.

 

[Steam]

soooo... i was right...

he takes liek last too :0

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

@ Judo777
actually there is another move we have that everyone forgets about that will clank. Wings of Icarus. while this is not something i can say other pits do, personally i use this move as a safeguard a lot. WOI allows us to safely get away from ftilt and can set up for a fast falled punish move. thanks for discussing this with me lets keep playing off each other's thoughts. this is fun AND productive

 

[-Mars-]

K. This guy is Mr. 0 on another account....

 

[Judo777]

@ Judo777
actually there is another move we have that everyone forgets about that will clank. Wings of Icarus. while this is not something i can say other pits do, personally i use this move as a safeguard a lot. WOI allows us to safely get away from ftilt and can set up for a fast falled punish move. thanks for discussing this with me lets keep playing off each other's thoughts. this is fun AND productive

Hm i forgot about WOI although that seems like pretty risky punish. I imagine it could punish ftilt 2 but most snakes typically play it safe and only ftilt 1 until it hit confirms. Antoher aspect of the MU that i could see being an issue it pits multi hitting uair would be hard to juggle with because of snakes grenade plucking which would probably be exploded by uair everytime.

Again tho i have like never ever played this MU with snake so i don't honestly know lol but i can theorize with you if you want.

 

[MK26]

Unofficial Weighted Matchup Chart

A few notes: To calculate each character's weighting, I grabbed Ripple's character popularity numbers, got the square root of all of them, and expressed them as a percentage of the sum of the square roots. I then went to the matchup chart and got the square root of the rating (taking into account negatives and whatnot) and multiplied each result by the opponent's weight.

For example, the ICs are -1 against MK, who has a weighting of sqrt(497)/286.3922*100% = ~7.784%, so they lose 7.78 or so points for that. On the other hand, they are +3 against Kirby, whose weighting of sqrt(80)/286.3922*100% = ~3.123% is multiplied by sqrt(3) to give the ICs about 5.41 points.

The point totals are then summed up and dividied by the weights that have been applied to the matchups (ie the weight of every character except oneself, because the ditto isnt counted) to get a final total.

For the most part, scores are skewed downward from the unweighted chart. This is probably because the top tier matchups are worth more than bottom tier matchups, and characters lose to the top more often than to the bottom...thus, everyone looks weaker. The final averages on this chart should be seen as independent of the final averages on the other one, but I've included both for comparison.

The tops are much closer to what the tier list looks like, while the bottoms are mostly unchanged. ¯\(°_o)/¯

And if you download the full chart, you'll see that what the picture says are ties just look the same due to rounding. Every character is ordered, and there are no ties. Then again, a difference of 0.01 is pretty negligible to begin with...

Download if you want to see the chart(s) and weightings

[collapse="just the ranking"]

[/collapse]I'll split this off into its own thread if warranted, and, when there, compare the tops/mids/bottoms to each other individually

 

[Seagull Joe]

Lmao!

C'mon, you know Spelt!

He's PR'd in...erm...

He placed well at...

....?

LOL@spelt, you seem to know so much about this game! how come i've never heard of you though? o:

Cause he's godlike.

LOL. I'd like to see you do that with Fox.

Also Marth:Snake is even or slightly in Marth's favour so long as the Marth is doing it right. Marth ****s snake up the *** hard when he's doing it right.

Agreed, but it's whoever has ground control will be more victorious. Marth just has safer options on grounded Snake compared to grounded Marth.

I like when people go

"Lol this guy's opinion isn't valid because he's not ranked and didn't place in a major tourney. I mean I didn't either, but my points are still valid anyway."

I just don't like the stupid pony avatars. I think everyone is ******** who has one to be honest @____@.

actually, thats EXACTLY what it makes him.

also lol @ spelt getting called out for being a complete scrub nobody in irl tournament scene, and than replying with, well your a nobody too, to somebody people have actually heard of and who is ranked in a super stacked region. then once he realises that vato isnt a nobody like he is, he disregards the point entirely and calls him out for not being ranked high enough.

this kid spelt is too much. stay free bro.

-Starts to laugh-

where the hell does spelt even live, Ive been trying to figure this out forever.

as many tournament results threads as i go over and ive still never seen his name, I can only assume he places like crap in a super scrubby region.

-Starts to laugh harder-

Spelt is from Colorado.

Home of the Nuggets.

soooo... i was right...

-Dead-

K. This guy is Mr. 0 on another account....

Please no...

he takes liek last too :0

Who does he use?

 

[Steam]

Spelt doesn't have a main. he just kinda uses whoever

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

that is only if they get the nade out when we hit them with uair. but we also have dair for juggling along with up aimed arrows and utilt (and grabs but i think that is kind of obvious). camp wise nades are more limited against pit as our wingdash stops them right outside hit range so we outcamp snake. also stripped nades are pushed away from us when we wing dash so landing them near us doesn't work really either. however not to say nades are not annoying, it' s just that between woi and arrows, our perfect camp against snake is slightly greater than snake's is against us thus forcing the approach.

keep goin i want to find out when i can't counter your theory with my practice. this is getting interesting.

also if any1 else wants to get in on this that has experiance please do so

@mk26.
good job dude

 

[Judo777]

that is only if they get the nade out when we hit them with uair. but we also have dair for juggling along with up aimed arrows and utilt (and grabs but i think that is kind of obvious). camp wise nades are more limited against pit as our wingdash stops them right outside hit range so we outcamp snake. also stripped nades are pushed away from us when we wing dash so landing them near us doesn't work really either. however not to say nades are not annoying, it' s just that between woi and arrows, our perfect camp against snake is slightly greater than snake's is against us thus forcing the approach.

keep goin i want to find out when i can't counter your theory with my practice. this is getting interesting.

also if any1 else wants to get in on this that has experiance please do so

I haven't ever seen pits that use wingdash very often. Didn't know it did that stuff although I feel snake should be able to at least disrupt pits camp game with proper use of nades at least to take his mind off of snake. Also i eel pit would also have trouble juggling snake simply because hes kinda slow. Not saying its not doable it just seems it would be less effective than many other characters. And lastly I would think pit would have one hell of a hard time killing snake. Bar bair (which is a little more telegraphed to setup) and Fsmash (which is DIable and more importantly you must be on the ground to hit snake with and snake dominates the ground), I can't see pit killing snake for a good long while.

 

[Ussi]

The thing about Snake is....

he just... doesn't.. DIE!.. and then he gets the clutch utilt on you

This is universal

 

[Flayl]

MK26: Thanks, this is really neat.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ah but while it is a somewhat troublesome to juggle snake, and while fsmash must be done on the ground, you are forgetting where pit shines hard over snake.... EDGEGUARDING.

if snake is off stage we have so many options to screw him over. we can chase with wing refresh, or we can sit back and arrow him which always results in either good damage or an eaten jump. if snake has to recover even semi low we can fair him all day for either damage or even the kill (the latter is not usual but is highly doable given the correct circumstances). also we can cancell his c4 recovery by WOI-ing above it. this stops him from going up but keeps him in hitstun. and that wind box stretches out ridiculously far below pit. it is also off stage where we can get bair in easier (albeit still a task indeed). we can also spike snake out of cypher if he is forced to rise close to the edge

however it is true that pit has a harder time killing snake than the other way around, but i don't think you are giving pit enough credit on his mobility. he has good run and walk speed, and if he ground hovers with WOI he goes even fast plus it has the UP B refresh effect. this lets pit chose between running to the edge, the sky, or just away while letting him keep his jumps and refreshing his up b.

in the air pit can wave bounce arrows and wavebounce mirror shield effectively as well. not to mention that when done smartly our glide can assist with escape. we can go back and forth UNDER stages as well. this allows us to stall and plank arrows to rack up damage until you are in better killing percents. the problem with this on pit's end of all this is that snake also dominates at edgeguarding. however pit is a ledge god and has a wide variety of options to get back on. or just stay there. pit's got hella edge game

 

[NickRiddle]

I love reading MU specific arguments about Snake.

"We can juggle/combo him well."
"Off-stage, he's ****ed."

Damn, so you're using any character in the game?
That's amazing!



Also, Mario sucks.

 

[Chuee]

I love reading MU specific arguments about Snake.

"We can juggle/combo him well."
"Off-stage, he's ****ed."

Damn, so you're using any character in the game?
That's amazing!

Exactly what I think lol.
Gets so repetitive <.<

 

[Pierce7d]

Nick, you must fight my Mario next time we see each other!

People aren't ready bro.

 

[NickRiddle]

Nick, you must fight my Mario next time we see each other!

People aren't ready bro.

But when I wreck it, I'll just question your choice of characte.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

I love reading MU specific arguments about Snake.

"We can juggle/combo him well."
"Off-stage, he's ****ed."

Damn, so you're using any character in the game?
That's amazing!

um i admitted that we can't juggle him as well as others. and why is saying that pit wrecks him offstage not legit when pit has a DACG chaingrab on snake 0 to 41% which makes it perfectly viable that pit has the neccassary tools to get snake off stage which is more than a lot of characters have to get him off the edge. pretty much was the only reason i went into detail on it.

 

[Inferno3044]

But when I wreck it, I'll just question your choice of characte.

Isnt zss's best move is slower than human reaction time.

 

[NickRiddle]

Isnt zss's best move slower than human reaction time.

Yup.
So is her grab.

Yet they both hit often.