Official 2010-2011 Super Smash Bros. Melee MBR Tier List

[trahhSTEEZY]

@icg
that doesn't change the situation though, unless falcon vs puff is noticebaly better than peach vs puff

 

[Merkuri]

By this reasoning Pikachu must actually be pretty good vs Fox and Falco because look at what AXE does to people!

And obviously we both see the clear implications for Puff and several other characters.

We're not saying Peach beats Fox, we're saying it's not that bad of a match up.

And It does stand to reason that Pikachu vs Spacies isn't as bad as some people thought. People use to point to Fox vs Pikachu as being unwinnable comparable to Pikachu vs Fox, and that is just laughable.

Axe couldn't be Tope or Lucien with Pikachu, and that is because it's a horrific match up for Pikachu.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

why? .

zelda has a lot of good walling moves with low lag. overall, she has a better recovery than ganon, less lag, same movement, same or better edge guard, same or better combo escapes, same ground moves (different purposes, but comparable in worth), ganon has a bit of a range advantage.

 

[john!]

Let me clear things up for you.

This isn't actually the real tier list, it's hungrybox list (even tho it might be quite accurate) which we just posted so you guys are happy and shut the **** up.
The MBR did NOT vote on this list.

We had a voting back in April/May, but the leadership decided not to publish the list because there wasn't enough discussion and not enough voters and the we dropped the project.

Here is the result of that voting:



Clarification: First we split the Tier List up into two categories: viable (as seen above) and non-viable (we also intended to add a "semi-viable" category first, but dismissed this idea).
We finished voting on the viable part and thought about maybe not arrange the low tier characters in any order and just put them into tiers since tbqh even after so many years of Melee we don't know **** about many Low Tiers.
Anyway we didn't came to add any Tiers to the list because the project was dropped.


Just thought I let you know.

The title of this thread should be changed.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I see what sveet is saying but gannon can at least tank zedlas close to like mid wieght and one of the easiest to kill of the top. yes comboing gannon can easily make up for it but not everyone can auto combo him and if they can chances are they have some kind of combo game vs zedla i'm thinking of fox and falcon namly.

but gannon's tank, grabs, combos are much more solid. As for zedla's overall options for about everything else for just as good if not better(being sheild pressured, edge stalling, spacing ,outfits, down-B in case of beyond gay camping on somewhere like JK64 or something) I understand but zdla still lacks some stuff but I could argee she's less likly to win from some gimmick.

however if people figure puff zedla is doomed beyond that.

 

[stingers]

how did you spell it as zedla every single time

 

[The Star King]

To be fair, he said zdla once.

 

[Kason Birdman]

Heyro. So my bud Mogotoo made a Chart thingy that shows the change in every characters tier placing/rapeness/gayness over the years and tier lists (what is this, like the 10th one?)

He uploaded it to our forum. So I thought I would post it here, I found it neat.

edit: yeah, its the 10th

 

[N64]

that's really neat!

 

[Pink Reaper]

Lol @ the Ice Climbers

 

[JPOBS]

yoshis is hilarious.

Axe couldn't be Tope or Lucien with Pikachu, and that is because it's a horrific match up for Pikachu.

but wasnt Fox (and falco) also horric unbeatable matchup for pikachu not even a year ago?

and now you're basically saying those matchups aren't "that bad" cuz axe ran a train. But you turn aroudn and say "but dont worry, pikachu's other matchups are probably still terrible, despite the fact that axe hasnt really played tope/lucien in tourny."

I dont' understand.

 

[Merkuri]

yoshis is hilarious.

but wasnt Fox (and falco) also horric unbeatable matchup for pikachu not even a year ago?

and now you're basically saying those matchups aren't "that bad" cuz axe ran a train. But you turn aroudn and say "but dont worry, pikachu's other matchups are probably still terrible, despite the fact that axe hasnt really played tope/lucien in tourny."

I dont' understand.

I'm saying the match up was never that bad for Pikachu, people simply thought it was.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here because I'm sure you're smart enough to know that if Axe went Pikachu against Lucien or Tope in tournament he'd get ****ed up. There is a reason why he seconds Falco, and their is a reason why he used Falco against Plank at Pound 4.

 

[Laijin]

how did you spell it as zedla every single time

dude this guy HAS to be a troll.
thers no way he is serious

 

[N64]

merkuri.

I can say with more confidence than you that axe plays falco in addition to pikachu because those are the two characters he has the most fun with.

Fox and Falco is, always has, and most likely always will be bad matchups for pikachu. Sheik is, always has, and most likely always will be a worse matchup for pikachu. Pikachu has the ability to beat all of these chars. What Axe has done in his recent tournament preformances is show that pikachu can win matches he should lose. Just because you're just realizing this now doesn't mean it's a great revelation to the smash community, which is what it feels like you are implying. This also doesn't have much of an effect on pikachu's tier placement because he still realistically loses to all the same chars as before. Axe is a phenomenal player and indeed does show what pikachu is capable of in this point in the metagame. I wouldn't be surprised (or any more surprised than I already am of what he's done) if Axe beat either of those players with pikachu.

That had a forceful connotation, because seeing your posts rub me the wrong way almost half the time. You talk as if you have an idea of what you're talking about.

 

[Alukard]

omg those colors are terrible ... i can't tell when it comes down to light blues =\

 

[Deleted member]

She still lost to all those characters overall.

But I will concede that she was better with it.

She's still completely useless though.

if you want to go directly for tournament viability, she's still better than falcon. while both are garbage to solo in tournament, at least peach has good CP choices while falcon is just horrible.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol her CP choices aren't even that good anymore. No Mute.

Also idk, Falcon plays a lot of the big gay levels like KJ64 and whatever a lot better than her because he has like mobility. And stuff. While she doesn't.

 

[Merkuri]

merkuri.

I can say with more confidence than you that axe plays falco in addition to pikachu because those are the two characters he has the most fun with.

Fox and Falco is, always has, and most likely always will be bad matchups for pikachu. Sheik is, always has, and most likely always will be a worse matchup for pikachu. Pikachu has the ability to beat all of these chars. What Axe has done in his recent tournament preformances is show that pikachu can win matches he should lose. Just because you're just realizing this now doesn't mean it's a great revelation to the smash community, which is what it feels like you are implying. This also doesn't have much of an effect on pikachu's tier placement because he still realistically loses to all the same chars as before. Axe is a phenomenal player and indeed does show what pikachu is capable of in this point in the metagame. I wouldn't be surprised (or any more surprised than I already am of what he's done) if Axe beat either of those players with pikachu.

That had a forceful connotation, because seeing your posts rub me the wrong way almost half the time. You talk as if you have an idea of what you're talking about.

Sorry if offended you.

I'd really like to hear this from Axe though and not you.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Sorry if offended you.

I'd really like to hear this from Axe though and not you.

its aight I forgive you from last time.

oh and I completely agree with N64.

I find it funny you can say something almost on axe's behalf and then somebody tells you thats probably not the case....you wanna hear it from axe now lol. tread softly homie, you probably should have just checked with axe first before making any sort of claim like that.

(referring to why he plays falco, and him vs lucien/lunin)

 

[Merkuri]

its aight I forgive you from last time.

oh and I completely agree with N64.

I find it funny you can say something almost on axe's behalf and then somebody tells you thats probably not the case....you wanna hear it from axe now lol. tread softly homie, you probably should have just checked with axe first before making any sort of claim like that.

(referring to why he plays falco, and him vs lucien/lunin)

Um I wasn't pretending to state anything on Axe's behalf, I was just sharing my opinion(which a lot of people seem to share nowadays); but what annoys me is that N64 is always speaking as if he represents Axe, like his and Axe's word are one in the same.

And you were wrong back then, not me

 

[V3ctorMan]

If there's ANYONE that knows Axe better than anyone (besides Axe himself) obviously is me... if there's a debate needed.. I can vouch.. as Axe never reads these threads (or never replies at least)...

N64 you hit the ball when you said Axe plays Pikachu/Falco cuz they are his favorites... this is true.. I influened Axe to play Falco cuz he thought my falco was good (lol) well maybe it is.. idk.. ^^ but yeah..it's just coincidence that his secondary covers his CP option on his Pikachu...

I'll let Axe know this is here.. and see if he gives you all an insight.. or i'll reply on his behalf after he tells me.. etc..

 

[KAOSTAR]

Um I wasn't pretending to state anything on Axe's behalf, I was just sharing my opinion(which a lot of people seem to share nowadays); but what annoys me is that N64 is always speaking as if he represents Axe, like his and Axe's word are one in the same.

And you were wrong back then, not me

lol, I kilt you off so hard.

lmao, nobody thought you were actually speaking on axe's behalf, more like you were out of pocket and speaking as if you knew what you were talking about.

take this with a grain of salt, but it just seems that when you "state your opinion" it just feels like you are posting as if it was a fact. just try throwing in **** like imo, maybe, or I think and maybe you won't rub ppl the wrong way as much. lol I don't think ur a bad guy, just often misunderstood because of how you word your phrases.

also @ n64 speaking for other people. I really don't think he would say that without having a reason. im sure they have discussed why they play the characters they play. also according to vman who would know, n64 was correct.

imo its more annoying to be wrong and post opinions in a way in which they are easily misinterpreted as attempts to present factual data.

edit: I reread your post just to make sure I didn't add any biased connotation.

omg you sounded like such a *****. id love to watch axe v lucien/lunin, at least vs lunin it could go either way. never seen his chu vs sheik b4. cg might be too gay tho.

 

[Merkuri]

lol, I kilt you off so hard.

lmao, nobody thought you were actually speaking on axe's behalf, more like you were out of pocket and speaking as if you knew what you were talking about.

take this with a grain of salt, but it just seems that when you "state your opinion" it just feels like you are posting as if it was a fact. just try throwing in **** like imo, maybe, or I think and maybe you won't rub ppl the wrong way as much. lol I don't think ur a bad guy, just often misunderstood because of how you word your phrases.

also @ n64 speaking for other people. I really don't think he would say that without having a reason. im sure they have discussed why they play the characters they play. also according to vman who would know, n64 was correct.

imo its more annoying to be wrong and post opinions in a way in which they are easily misinterpreted as attempts to present factual data.

edit: I reread your post just to make sure I didn't add any biased connotation.

omg you sounded like such a *****. id love to watch axe v lucien/lunin, at least vs lunin it could go either way. never seen his chu vs sheik b4. cg might be too gay tho.

Nah, you made a really ****ty argument. I vaguely remember it honestly but I do remember that you ended up arguing about something I didn't even mention, you do that a lot lol.

Everyone states their opinion, it's me thinking Pikachu is no different that you thinking Mewtwo doesn't suck. It really isn't half as big a deal as you and N64 are making it out to be.

 

[N64]

Um I wasn't pretending to state anything on Axe's behalf, I was just sharing my opinion(which a lot of people seem to share nowadays); but what annoys me is that N64 is always speaking as if he represents Axe, like his and Axe's word are one in the same.

And you were wrong back then, not me

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11011593#post11011593

straight from axe's fingertips. I do probably post a lot in a posting-for-axe way around here, because honestly I see him misrepresented and that angers me so I speak rashly. "There is a reason axe plays falco" in your post seemed to heavily imply that, well, he picked up falco for pika's bad matchups, which isn't the case. It very much sounded to me like you were speaking as though you knew his reasoning. I don't like seeing my friends misrepresented!

But yes, of course, axe can come in here and say as he wishes and that naturally supersedes what I say about him, and you're perfectly fine in wanting to hear it from him. I'm just correcting mis-assumptions where I see fit.

And indeed if anyone knows axe who isn't named axe, it's vman : P

 

[KAOSTAR]

Everyone states their opinion, it's me thinking Pikachu is no different that you thinking Mewtwo doesn't suck. It really isn't half as big a deal as you and N64 are making it out to be.

man I gave you some golden advice, of course you missed it again
because I used words instead of pictures to convey my thoughts. but whatever.

you coulda had at least 6 more friends on FB. smh.

 

[rhan]

man I gave you some golden advice, of course you missed it again
because I used words instead of pictures to convey my thoughts. but whatever.

you coulda had at least 6 more friends on FB. smh.

I couldn't help but chuckle from this.. lol

 

[Shaeman111]

Only Chuck Norris can Chuckle.

 

[rhan]

Only Chuck Norris can Chuckle.

Don't make me Bruce Lee kick you across the chin *****.

 

[Eaode]

lol a lot of tournament play isn't even just based on this one-dimensional concept of a tier list, as in this character > that character all the time, there are some little kinks, the tier list is just a very general idea and people are focusing on it way too hard

for instance, I main falcon, but recently I've been picking up pikachu for certain matchups cuz he compliments falcon's matchups pretty well, imo he does really well vs spacies and ***** them on FD to boot (combos -> gimps, 0-death cgs etc)

I dont see why people need to wage war over making the tier list an answer to everything, its a general outline of the cast of characters, who you play and how you do depends a lot on multi-dimensional matchup configurations and a slew of other varying factors that just dont fit into a tier list

 

[JPOBS]

I'm saying the match up was never that bad for Pikachu, people simply thought it was.

god you're dumb.

dont you think there was a reason people thought the matchups were terrible? You're acting like people just arbitrarily thought pika lost badly to falco and fox, but lo and behold, we've been wrong for years. thats simply NOT TRUE.

people thought pika vs fox was bad, because there was evidence for the case, i.e. fox's generally getting off on pikachu players/there never being a pika of the calibur of axe to spread a little light on the matchup.

The EXACT SAME THING could be the case for sheik in a years time. We currently think sheik vs pika is terrible now, but what if axe just trashes tope/lucien when they play? we wont kno until it happen.

For the record, im not even trying to argue that pika wins/goes even with fox/sheik. Im just telling you that your statements are ********.

 

[Pi]

people are still responding to vbm?

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol I don't think ur a bad guy, just often misunderstood because of how you word your phrases.

I don't like seeing my friends misrepresented!

In the vein of the second comment, Id like to reply to the first comment by saying that unless Im confusing people, last time i checked, Merk was female.

 

[ponylover123456789]

I believe I made at least 3 paragraphs of coherent points, which most people seemed capable of reading. To say I haven't made a coherent point is laughable

coherence is relative unfortunately and swf is srs business.

 

[KAOSTAR]

In the vein of the second comment, Id like to reply to the first comment by saying that unless Im confusing people, last time i checked, Merk was female.

it would explain HER complete disregard for logic and reason.

/sexism lawl

 

[da K.I.D.]

I should have thrown in an inb4 in that last post, cus I TOTALLY saw that coming...

I still chuckled a bit tho.

 

[Merkuri]

god you're dumb.

dont you think there was a reason people thought the matchups were terrible? You're acting like people just arbitrarily thought pika lost badly to falco and fox, but lo and behold, we've been wrong for years. thats simply NOT TRUE.

people thought pika vs fox was bad, because there was evidence for the case, i.e. fox's generally getting off on pikachu players/there never being a pika of the calibur of axe to spread a little light on the matchup.

The EXACT SAME THING could be the case for sheik in a years time. We currently think sheik vs pika is terrible now, but what if axe just trashes tope/lucien when they play? we wont kno until it happen.

For the record, im not even trying to argue that pika wins/goes even with fox/sheik. Im just telling you that your statements are ********.

You're a *******.

I'll try and simplify this.

I got your point to begin with, it was just so dumb I didn't think I needed to refute it; but fine. People thought Pika vs Spacies is horrible on the nature that they're top tier and he is low tier, this logic is applied without exception to all lower tier characters. Axe's Pikachu would lose to top shieks, and we know this because we're not ********, it's not analogous to Axe beating Spacies at Apex. I mean honestly fox mains be beaten by a low tier? In 2010 is there something new or surprising about that? In case you haven't realized this doesn't happen to the top Shiek players.

And btw Axe says the Pika Shiek match is on winnable and that's why he continue to play Falco, N64 posted a link to it. And people seem to think that Apex was the first time we've seen Axe beating spacies, Axe defeated Jman long before he was established player, at Genesis(lol I even heard that was his first oos tournament
0

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

And btw Axe says the Pika Shiek match is on winnable

Can you find me where exactly he said that? And I am pretty sure he usually says that he plays Falco because its fun and because he loves playing Falco dittos with Vectorman. He also says that having a secondary is useful against bad matchups (this applies for any character I think), so using Falco in tournament is often a logical choice for him.

This thread is absolutely hideous at this point so I should be used to this by now, but I really can't stand when people misrepresent what someone says (in this case, a top player) to support their argument. No offense Merkuri if thats not what you are doing, but thats what it looks like...

 

[Zodiac]

this is a bad list

 

[rhan]

this is a bad list

Not if you base it completely off tourney results. LOL

 

[Shaeman111]

It's not legitimate anyways.