Metagame Minute, DI Part 4, Out Now! 12/13/2011 UPDATE!

[SaveMeJebus]

that still doesnt make sense. SL is invincible frame 4 lol.

@ C.J: I dont see how that could happen. If you buffer a roll MK couldnt possibly get over you in time and Nair. He could hit you but you would still be on stage.

I wanted an answer without having to go and search for the data myself. seeing as how there were like 10 people viewing this, I thought I would get a fast answer and I did.

 

[DeLux]

Get on skype GIMR

No leaks please

 

[GimR]

obviously, no leaks. You're in charge around those parts

 

[B.A.M.]

let me change that before ppl get some dumb ideas. Frame 5 including the input right?


@Jebus: Im not trying to harp you. I know you. Which is why I want you to just think about it. You yourself already have that knowledge. You are just being lazy man. come on. You should know that theres no way SL is 2 frames. And thats all you would need to know. Now if you were just curious about SL frame data that I can understand.

You've played this game enough by now to know that.

@Noraa: imagine that people not knowing frames. that should be common place. you are right. Lets not try to make this a competitive fighting game. Lets not know the frames to one of the strongest options in the game. Im sorry I have a background in fighting games before this were you try to learn information to get better. Silly me. And i just said im not angry learn to read pls thank you.

 

[Noraa]

people getting angry for someone not knowing frames? lol smash

 

[SaveMeJebus]

let me change that before ppl get some dumb ideas. Frame 5 including the input right?


@Jebus: Im not trying to harp you. I know you. Which is why I want you to just think about it. You yourself already have that knowledge. You are just being lazy man. come on. You should know that theres no way SL is 2 frames. And thats all you would need to know. Now if you were just curious about SL frame data that I can understand.

No human can see the difference between a two frame attack and a 6 frame attack just by looking at the screen. ****, no wonder everyone is afraid to post here

 

[B.A.M.]

lol if he had a frame 2 SL with invincibility then he could SL through your jab whenever he wanted. think about that. Or aerial naner follow ups. Etc. Thats your difference. You cant tell that falcos jab is faster then your ftilt? Think in that regard. Anyways this doesnt matter anymore. If you cant figure it out, then thats just something you are unable to do. Thats fine. If you're fine with it, then why should I care? So ill leave it like that Jebus. my bad.

 

[DeLux]

So uhhh when GIMR gets on skype and I talk him through this, I'll let you all know.

As of now, I'm waiting

 

[Player-1]

I'll get on skype and you can talk me through it.










































:3

 

[Judo777]

I know grounded SL doesn't hit til frame 8 I'm pretty sure. idk about aerial.

Also go figure. MK is the only character that can do this safely. And hell yes this is risky. If you SDI offstage and don't buffer the move right (for people like diddy that can) or if you mistime the aerial if hes still invincible...... you die. It even risky if he hits ur shield much less if hes smart enough to wait.

 

[Ussi]

Can you hold the control stick down then use cstick diagonal down to not fast fall dair? Or you will buffer a FF no matter what?

Cause walk off dair without FFing is possible when you do that (smash stick of course)

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I could see Warios abusing this to get Chomp SDs.

 

[Flayl]

Good stuff to Logic for finding this out, this is great! Also nice video and explanation GimR.

Spoiler

who cares about smash lab leaks -_______-

 

[M@v]

LOL M@V Falco could just bair. Its not like you have to dair or something. Or do people not get that?

I do, but why bair them, when you can straight up kill them with a dair?

 

[Player-1]

Can you hold the control stick down then use cstick diagonal down to not fast fall dair? Or you will buffer a FF no matter what?

Cause walk off dair without FFing is possible when you do that (smash stick of course)

you can tilt your control stick down and press A and you won't FF

 

[Javon89]

Good **** GIMR, this makes MK somewhat more bearable

 

[OverLade]

This won't work in an actual match, no because it doesn't work on paper, but because good Metaknight players will drop from the ledge and tornado instead of Uair from a teetering position.

The reason for this is because if you hold shield, and nado hits your shield, it will pull you towards the ledge and basically sweep you off your feet and into the tornado. So running toward the ledge and shielding anticipating an uair during the ledge snap lag gives MK plenty of time to recognize what you're planning.

So basically, this is already made unviable via options MK players have already been using. That's why nobody stands that near the edge against MK anyway because Tornado will already beat every option except beating it out with an attack, which isn't a reasonable bait given how close you are to the startup of nado anyway.

MYTH BUSTED

 

[DeLux]

My way works around tornado as well

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You can't punish an MK that does a fast fall u-air

 

[Player-1]

In case you didn't realize, this isn't to "punish" anything, it's just a way to make sure MK can't perfect plank which he can't if he's FFing uairs or using nados. Hence the name "anti-planking"

 

[SaveMeJebus]

In case you didn't realize, this isn't to "punish" anything, it's just a way to make sure MK can't perfect plank which he can't if he's FFing uairs or using nados. Hence the name "anti-planking"

That is so true

 

[Tesh]

We already have a way to stop perfect planking. Its called an LGL.

 

[Player-1]

You can't stop it if he was scrooging the whole game then decides to start doing it the last 2 minutes of the game with a LGL.


edit: also this doesn't just apply to MK like you are all assuming, as shown in the video it works against most characters that decide to try and plank like Marth.

 

[DMG]

This won't work in an actual match, no because it doesn't work on paper, but because good Metaknight players will drop from the ledge and tornado instead of Uair from a teetering position.

The reason for this is because if you hold shield, and nado hits your shield, it will pull you towards the ledge and basically sweep you off your feet and into the tornado. So running toward the ledge and shielding anticipating an uair during the ledge snap lag gives MK plenty of time to recognize what you're planning.

So basically, this is already made unviable via options MK players have already been using. That's why nobody stands that near the edge against MK anyway because Tornado will already beat every option except beating it out with an attack, which isn't a reasonable bait given how close you are to the startup of nado anyway.

MYTH BUSTED

Shut up loud-*** Halberd. We don't talk about stuff like that round hurrrrr

(He's right btw. Although as the video clearly states, it opens up the anti planking game to more mindgames since you have a mechanical way to combat it)

You can't punish an MK that does a fast fall u-air

In the video, they DO fast fall Uair. What some characters can't punish is fast fall delayed Uair. You also get ****ed up if they jump with Uair lol

 

[NO-IDea]

This won't work in an actual match, no because it doesn't work on paper, but because good Metaknight players will drop from the ledge and tornado instead of Uair from a teetering position.

The reason for this is because if you hold shield, and nado hits your shield, it will pull you towards the ledge and basically sweep you off your feet and into the tornado. So running toward the ledge and shielding anticipating an uair during the ledge snap lag gives MK plenty of time to recognize what you're planning.

So basically, this is already made unviable via options MK players have already been using. That's why nobody stands that near the edge against MK anyway because Tornado will already beat every option except beating it out with an attack, which isn't a reasonable bait given how close you are to the startup of nado anyway.

MYTH BUSTED

You could roll back if you expect the nado into PS. I know Marths in EU do it in their ledge guarding vs MK if they're not attacking. Run up to ledge, shield, roll back, rinse repeat.

I mean, I agree this doesn't beat planking altogether. But to rule this out as an option when it actually is practical and builds upon what some characters have been doing already, eh...

Not that my character could do it. My character sucks. What am I going to do, d-air him? 17 frame move, fml

I got projectiles that can go down there though, so meh.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Damn, I was hoping for something new.

People discussed attacking MK out of shield back in the old planking threads, it was deemed too risky.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

@ DMG, not when he was doing it against Diddy.

 

[GimR]

This won't work in an actual match, no because it doesn't work on paper, but because good Metaknight players will drop from the ledge and tornado instead of Uair from a teetering position.

The reason for this is because if you hold shield, and nado hits your shield, it will pull you towards the ledge and basically sweep you off your feet and into the tornado. So running toward the ledge and shielding anticipating an uair during the ledge snap lag gives MK plenty of time to recognize what you're planning.

So basically, this is already made unviable via options MK players have already been using. That's why nobody stands that near the edge against MK anyway because Tornado will already beat every option except beating it out with an attack, which isn't a reasonable bait given how close you are to the startup of nado anyway.

MYTH BUSTED

My way works around tornado as well

yup, Lux's way is Brawl's first option-select.

 

[Captain L]

will we get to hear it now or do we have to wait for the next episode? :O

 

[Player-1]

just tell us :3

 

[DeLux]

The only issue that we have with going through and directly explaining is that the Lab recently instituted a revamped charter that included an anti-leaking policy.

How I derived the new method pretty much came based off the research I did on a huge metagame mechanic advancement that we're going to release in the next week or two.

The thread itself has been written. We're just waiting for the video (by Bionic) to be finished before we release it. Given the number of 502's as of late, I feel like it'll be slightly longer than a week rather than slightly shorter lol

 

[Tesh]

You guys are hilarious.

 

[Eddie G]

Rubbing old deodorant on an already filthy street bum and hoping he/she smells totally fresh. That's what this is.

 

[GimR]

you're just salty Peach can't do anything

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Posted elsewhere--

Old news, and not that useful, anyway. If he throws in F-Air, you get hit by the second and third hits. If he mixes up his timing at all, you roll toward him and get punished for being dumb. You still have to worry about people jumping off the ledge later, and if you're that close to the ledge (in order to Shield SDI), then N-Air molests you.

If this option select you mentioned works, you can still get nailed by a move during your roll's start-up.

It's nice to have the option, but you're crazy if you think that double U-Air alone is what makes Meta Knight's planking gamebreaking.

 

[Flayl]

The only issue that we have with going through and directly explaining is that the Lab recently instituted a revamped charter that included an anti-leaking policy.

Nobody cares

 

[B.A.M.]

its kinda funny because i see this being good vs the whole cast SANS MK lol.

@ GIMR, MK has a true option selects with uair cuz of its frame data. You can input an uair then a nado/nair/dair right after and due to the hit stun if it connects the nair wont come out; you can continue your uair string. If you miss then the nado/nair/dair will come out and you can punish the AD. Nado would be the best one lol. actually utilizing the whiff buffer window opens up a ton of option selects (at least the closest things we have to option selects).


@ Delux: Why? I could understand if you were checking to see if the tech works, but why would you need an anti-leak policy for Smash Labs? I feel once techs have been found and properly tested they should be showcased to the public. That may just be me though. There's just too much secrecy going on in this community for the sake of secrecy. This should be about the community getting better, not feeling you're better than the community (not saying you have stated anything that would support this). These things just should not happen in the fighting game community.

 

[GimR]

I think it's more so false data isn't released. For example. If I discover something, I want to test everything about it and release it as a whole. If I release it early and then people start testing it wrong and releasing false data then it hurts the community as a whole. Lux wants to release a video explaining everything about it so people know how it works EXACTLY as it works so false data that is spread around can instantly be falsified by just showing some one the video

 

[DeLux]

GIMR hit it on the head. I want my organization to remain credible. That means thoroughly testing everything. Like the specific thread I'm talking about has been rewritten 3-4 times by me personally to make sure everything is accurate.

I actually told GIMR to hold off because we wanted to get more testing in person. Just because something works in frame advance doesn't necessarily make it a legitimate tactic for real time. I don't necessarily think that rule would apply here since it's fairly easy, but it's always good to debug everything first.

 

[GimR]

@Lux: I tested your method in real time yesterday and got it to work