Metagame Minute, DI Part 4, Out Now! 12/13/2011 UPDATE!

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Here was a suggestion. Shiek's ftilt. Not a common match-up, but usually annoying to most every character.

 

[Flayl]

I second that idea, it would help us character boards that can't learn through experience

 

[GimR]

what about her F-tilt?

 

[Flayl]

Which directions should you SDI it at what %s, what kind of follow-ups sheik has, or what's the best team combo you can get with a partner FTilt'ing the opponent, those are some ideas

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I do not know about team combos.

But I was thinking about the various effects her Ftilt has being partially decayed or fresh. Sometimes she has a ftilt lock depending upon decay or due to a character's traits. Some percents can be gotten out of while others cannot be. Guaranteed set-up into a KO move or follow-ups would be nice to know about on anyone other than spacies for Shiek. What DI might harm you while others might help you.

The project seems rather interesting I would say. And any quick knowledge people can gain out of it can help people in the match-ups against Shiek as her needles and Ftilt are usually the only issues people talk about in that match-up. Besides, it would be a nice break to away from simply focusing on the top tier all the time. Snake got show time for his box tricks

 

[Eddie G]

you're just salty Peach can't do anything

Assuming I still use her in the matchup anymore. Heh.

 

[DeLux]

Metagame Minute on Sheiks Ftilt Lock:

Wait 45 seconds

The SDI multiplier on that move is horrendous. Combine that with one frame window of SDI per tilt. This is why you are locked.

 

[B.A.M.]

yeah theres nothing really for Sheik other than that the more she hits you, the more hitstun the move has. Its not % based. Its the decay. Like for example Marth cant get locked due to his frame 1 invincibility but sheik still has an advantage. Eventually if you keep getting ftilts decayed it will become a true combo and theres nothing he can do about it. Combine that with Deluxs data and the fact that sheik's walk is fast as well as the tilt and you have..........

A lock you cant really do much about, sans eventually coming out of the top. However if you are a fastfaller then you will get out eventually; problem is thats probably when you are at kill % and thats how you get usmashed. I really dont see a reasoning for a Metagame Minute on that. Again its my personal opinion.

@ Delux and GIMR: As I stated in my post I am all for that. Proper testing for the sake of verified data is a hallmark of any science. Its just that with all things we have to consider the human motive. I appreciate you two taking the time to navigate the game in such a manner and bring useful information.

@ Delux: When are we going to get that proper frame data/ frame advantage for all the characters? just curious. Not trying to push you as im sure you've been asked before.

@GIMR: Any hints on what we got for next week? And will you ever do a segment on topics such spacing or frame traps? Not necessarily new techs but something to boost the knowledge of our community. certain characters have frame traps still not being used and itd be kinda cool to go over some of the lesser known ones. Get more people thinking.

 

[GimR]

@GIMR: Any hints on what we got for next week? And will you ever do a segment on topics such spacing or frame traps? Not necessarily new techs but something to boost the knowledge of our community.

That's a much bigger project that I'm trying to start getting help on(Normal tutorials on things like spacing.) I want, with the help of the lab, to make a Brawl video set guide that any Noob could watch and learn everything important about the game. Something that takes the average smasher a year or 2 to learn but instead they learn it in a month or two

 

[stingers]

like melees advanced how to play vid? thatd be **** =]

 

[GimR]

like melees advanced how to play vid? thatd be **** =]

I want it to be bigger and better. I would also like to do one for melee

 

[stingers]

bigger isnt always better, the longer/more parts there are to a video the more likely a noob will be turned off from watching it altogether

 

[GimR]

bigger isnt always better, the longer/more parts there are to a video the more likely a noob will be turned off from watching it altogether

not every vid would be for noobs. It's a pretty big project.

 

[stingers]

yea i understand...man, whenever people say things like that I just get all these ideas in my head about my vision of the project...but ur the one whos actually doing it so its not my place to tell u how to do it >.>. if u ever wanna talk about it with someone tho...hmu =] cuz I think its a wonderful idea and I'd love to help out in any non video capturing way available lol

 

[B.A.M.]

Sounds good. I think itd be awesome to get knowledgeable players involved. Pierce has a tendency to make good threads on how to play, and i think thatd be awesome. A spacing project would be amazing. I think some people still dont understand their characters true range. A ton of people think spacing equals hitting with the tip of an attack on shield. the end. They dont take into account how fast a character can get from point a to point b (Sonic....) how characters have MULTIPLE RANGES (ppl dont realize that in this game SH functions as jump ins, or the fact that its not just projectile characters with multiple ranges.) Or how why certain ground attacks are traps, etc.

I think that big guide would be wonderful. You have could have the core that focus on the basics and the facets of the game you should be focusing on for higher level play. Then you can have some basic character stuff with spacing, traps blah blah.

Just as stinger, I would love to help out on a project like this if at all possible (cant capture card anything tho : ( ). Ive always been a fighting gamer; and it pains me that people dont realize the gem that is brawl. Its time there was a TRUE guide to smash. It would allow the community and new comers to see the depth of this game that only high to top tier players actually see. Not everyone is fortunate to talk with top players ( love So Cal). Not only that, some top players have trouble articulating their thoughts. It saddens me when you watch people play and they have no clue when they are delivering pressure or have advantage because they dont understand how such fighting game principles apply to this game because of its unique landscape and situations.

Man just thinking about it gets me hyped. Stuff like detail ledge play, how certain aerials cover multiple options. Ledge traps. That would be too good. What advantages crossups have opposed to other fighters. I am excited for your project GIMR. Hit me up sometime, Id love to help if possible. I could also ask Mike or Tyrant if they could assist. Im sure Havok would love too ( Havok has a background with SF so that might be kinda cool to hear his perspective)

 

[Exdeath]

yup, Lux's way is Brawl's first option-select.

Actually, Meta Knight has a lot of option-selects that you can usually see top-level MKs using -- glide attack in particular.

 

[DMG]

Shuttle Loop someone at mid % after an upwards move. If they airdodge, they eat a glide attack. If not, they either barely trade with shuttle loop, or eat it cause they can't get a move out fast enough to stop it.

How many people abuse this? lol.

 

[Exdeath]

Shuttle Loop someone at mid % after an upwards move. If they airdodge, they eat a glide attack. If not, they either barely trade with shuttle loop, or eat it cause they can't get a move out fast enough to stop it.

How many people abuse this? lol.

A lot of people, actually. You can also add in a way to buffer an automatic cancel if you whiff against their air dodge or glide attack if it hits, which is what I'm referring to.

 

[Flayl]

brawl already had an option-select with automatic jabs: Hold A then shield

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I always thought of various off-edge moves as option-selects. Since there's a risk of getting hit and getting stage spiked, one would perform a move (a nair or a bair, what have you) and input an air dodge outside of the buffer frames. If you get hit, you'll be more likely to tech and if you don't you can just proceed as you would if you got the hit.

 

[GimR]

Kind of like ledge teching in Melee. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that it was Brawl's first Option Select, lol. What I meant is that it's one of the first option selects I've seen that has almost all good out comes for the person performing it.

 

[B.A.M.]

GIMR you should do a segment on option selects in brawl. thatd be pretty raw.

 

[Exdeath]

GIMR you should do a segment on option selects in brawl. thatd be pretty raw.

That would be a very long section.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I want to see a section on Jigglypuff's true combos

Not enough people play her, because she's so underrated, which leads people to underrate her even more. It's awful...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I want to see a metagame minute on something Dedede related.

So long as it's little known and highly useful.

 

[Tesh]

didnt he already do one for DDD? about a 30% increase in chaingrab damage.

 

[Player-1]

he also did the z-axis spotdodge :3 D3 is clearly too broken, ban d3.

 

[B.A.M.]

That would be a very long section.

Of course it would be...... if he did EVERY SINGLE ONE IN THE ENTIRE GAME. lol. Im talking about major ones; some used in todays metagame that the common player doesnt realize, or lesser used ones that could potentially impact our metagame in the future. Explaining the idea behind option selects and encouraging people to find some. Just because he could make a video on option selects, doesnt mean every single one needs to be mentioned. Lets be realistic here.

 

[Tesh]

I like your sig. I personally use Pokemon trainer on new players so they dont have to know how gay things are otherwise.

 

[B.A.M.]

HAHAHA tearbear is raw. hahahaha

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Tearbear is a champ.

Showing people how awful the game is.

 

[GimR]

Btw, otakon + evo stream + mlg stream = no episode this week

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I actually thought of something cool.

How about one on Yoshi's Dragonic Reverse?

It's just one of those lesser known and used techs that are really powerful.

 

[Tesh]

that would actually fit in nicely with the rest of the amazing, but impossible to use techniques GIMR has shown us.

 

[Conviction]

Lol you've never pulled off the edge slip or abused rco lag?

Smh

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I can actually DR semi-consistently.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Dragonic Reverse isn't impossible, lol. You just need to change your controls around.

 

[B.A.M.]

Who cares about DR. Id rather a true pivot Metagame minute. I can do that fairly consistently to a buffered jab. I have a hard time with tilts though. I need to figure out how innocent roads did true pivot>buffer turnaround ftilt. That would be game breaking.

 

[san.]

HAHAHA tearbear is raw. hahahaha

You should have seen what Razer and Dojo did to a little kid at WHOBO 2.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Who cares about DR. Id rather a true pivot Metagame minute. I can do that fairly consistently to a buffered jab. I have a hard time with tilts though. I need to figure out how innocent roads did true pivot>buffer turnaround ftilt. That would be game breaking.

It's just a matter of practice, really.

But yeah, true pivot would be pretty damn interesting.