Shadow 111
Smash Lord
not if you don't press any jump release buttons when fox grabs you
.or at least.. i'm almost positive O_O
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
- Status
.or at least.. i'm almost positive O_O
Affinity
Smash Hero
No, you're correct. Only characters that hold MK up high enough so that his feet aren't touching the ground can force a jump break.not if you don't press any jump release buttons when fox grabs you
or at least.. i'm almost positive O_O
The MK has to input a jump command to jump break from Fox's grab.
Jupz
Smash Master
What are the jump commands? Just the jump button?
professor mgw
Smash Champion
thanks for the info, i can surely use this.
z SUB ZERO s
Smash Rookie
Just 3 questionz. What does IMO mean? What does Omnigay mean? and What are the Tilt movez?
IMO is "In My Opinion".
The Omnigay is a technique discovered by InfernoOmni that involves explosives (usually Snake's grenades or C4) and Metaknight's uthrow. The original way was that if Snake was holding a grenade, MK could grab him, wait about a second, and then uthrow. At the peak of the uthrow, the grenade Snake was holding would explode. If done correctly, Snake would die because of this but MK would stay alive. If done improperly, Metaknight or both players would die.
Not long afterwards, someone discovered a teams version of the Omnigay. In this version, Snake and Metaknight are both on the same team. The Snake player sticks C4 onto the MK, the MK grabs an opponent and uthrows, and the Snake player detonates it right as the MK gets "magnified" and the end result is the same as what the original Omnigay is. This was popularized and used to great effect by M2K and DSF at C3.
Here's the original thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171650
And here's a video demonstrating it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhmRoAz_4CQ
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
i need some help shutting down falcos laser game and avoiding the cg, any tips?
Affinity
Smash Hero
RE-DISCUSSION OF ALL MATCH-UPS STARTS NOW
Week 1 - Snake
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
Grabbing and Tornado are the best solutions in the Snake matchup imo. If you Fgrab, Dgrab, or Bgrab you can set it up into tornado or other devasting combinations. At 0- very low percent, Mk can up air 5 times Tornado but a much safer option id say is 4-5 up airs to nair and then when both characters are falling when you reach ground level, tornado before he reaches ground (so you dont fall forever if you do it higher). If you f grab there gonna air dodge eventualy. Wait for it an then pick their poison : nair, up air, dair, up b, nado, etc. A famous combo people like to do is down grab to tornado. Now this is up to the snake to work at times. The snake can DI away and put a shield or as soon as he gets out of the grab take out a grenade. Be careful when you do this. For this combo you need very god reaction speed. If they DI away you dash attack. If they DI close, you tornado, smash attack, etc.
Snakes gay down grab game is as i said: gay. The tech chase requires no skill at all and rack you up high damage and even death if you get repetitive or if they guess right. Honestly, the first step you should is learn how to mash out like super fast becuz snakes usually like to pummel before the down grab so you have a chance. If you do get down grabed, honestly, hide your controller lmao. I main snake too and im a dirty cheater XD its so easy looking at others controllers and knowing what their gonna do. Avoid being grabbed as its stupid. Try not to return to the stage to high in case of grenades and mortars. Watch out for the dumb snake trick where he drops a c4 jumps and activates it usually when they are recovering from high they do this. Be wary of mines. Dont use f tilt or d tilt as you have much better options in this matchup.
If near the edge and you get a grab in, down grab or f grab. Get ready to dair them and PRACTICE NOT LETTING A SNAKE RETURN TO STAGE. This is very easy. Go to training mode and check out scenarios in which he tries to come back and try to stop it. IF A SNAKE STARTS RECOVERING WITH THE CYPHER, UP B IT IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT WORRY. YOU WONT DIE NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE. YOU WILL GET HIT BY THE CYPHER WHILE THE SNAKE WILL BE SENT FAR. YOU CAN ALSO NAIR AND DAIR HIM WHILE RECOVERING TO LURE OUT HIS CYPHER AGAIN TO UP B IT.
So in this matchup dont make mistakes and be careful when your in the nineties as alot can take you out. Dont be a dmbrandon and start drill rushing towards snake making it obvious (lol <3 diem) This matchup is not even if the Mk knows what hes doing and doesnt choke. Its obvious in MK's favor.
60/40 (just because of how easily snake can get gimped in this match)
Bans in this matchup : Halberd, FD
Counterpicks : DELFINO, Frigate, Yoshi's
Also, here is a video for MKs needing to beat snakes that can really help lol. This is M2k vs Candy. Watch this video alot and it should help drastically. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-0BPkQIiU
Note: M2k is the best player in the world. Candy is one of the best Snakes in the country.
Snakes gay down grab game is as i said: gay. The tech chase requires no skill at all and rack you up high damage and even death if you get repetitive or if they guess right. Honestly, the first step you should is learn how to mash out like super fast becuz snakes usually like to pummel before the down grab so you have a chance. If you do get down grabed, honestly, hide your controller lmao. I main snake too and im a dirty cheater XD its so easy looking at others controllers and knowing what their gonna do. Avoid being grabbed as its stupid. Try not to return to the stage to high in case of grenades and mortars. Watch out for the dumb snake trick where he drops a c4 jumps and activates it usually when they are recovering from high they do this. Be wary of mines. Dont use f tilt or d tilt as you have much better options in this matchup.
If near the edge and you get a grab in, down grab or f grab. Get ready to dair them and PRACTICE NOT LETTING A SNAKE RETURN TO STAGE. This is very easy. Go to training mode and check out scenarios in which he tries to come back and try to stop it. IF A SNAKE STARTS RECOVERING WITH THE CYPHER, UP B IT IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT WORRY. YOU WONT DIE NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE. YOU WILL GET HIT BY THE CYPHER WHILE THE SNAKE WILL BE SENT FAR. YOU CAN ALSO NAIR AND DAIR HIM WHILE RECOVERING TO LURE OUT HIS CYPHER AGAIN TO UP B IT.
So in this matchup dont make mistakes and be careful when your in the nineties as alot can take you out. Dont be a dmbrandon and start drill rushing towards snake making it obvious (lol <3 diem) This matchup is not even if the Mk knows what hes doing and doesnt choke. Its obvious in MK's favor.
60/40 (just because of how easily snake can get gimped in this match)
Bans in this matchup : Halberd, FD
Counterpicks : DELFINO, Frigate, Yoshi's
Also, here is a video for MKs needing to beat snakes that can really help lol. This is M2k vs Candy. Watch this video alot and it should help drastically. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-0BPkQIiU
Note: M2k is the best player in the world. Candy is one of the best Snakes in the country.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
Few things about snake:
1. Remember that grounded shuttle-loop is effectice against snakes who are holding granades. Snakes like to pull out a granade and approach you so they can grab. Shuttle-loop invincbility will protect you and the shuttle-loop attack and the granade will hit snake
2. If you are trying to gimp snake when he is off the stage, remember that a fresh dair can hit snake out of the cypher. Also, if you are not confident whether your shuttle-loop will hit snake when he is in his cypher (because he can air dodge out of it), be patient. Follow him while he floating down and punish the air dodge with nair.
3. A bunch of snakes air dodge to the ground so you can grab them if they do that. Some like to use bair when they go down and this is easily punishable.
4. When a snake has a granade in his hand, you can actually tornado in the top of his head so it won't hit the granade but it will hit snake.
Hope that helps
1. Remember that grounded shuttle-loop is effectice against snakes who are holding granades. Snakes like to pull out a granade and approach you so they can grab. Shuttle-loop invincbility will protect you and the shuttle-loop attack and the granade will hit snake
2. If you are trying to gimp snake when he is off the stage, remember that a fresh dair can hit snake out of the cypher. Also, if you are not confident whether your shuttle-loop will hit snake when he is in his cypher (because he can air dodge out of it), be patient. Follow him while he floating down and punish the air dodge with nair.
3. A bunch of snakes air dodge to the ground so you can grab them if they do that. Some like to use bair when they go down and this is easily punishable.
4. When a snake has a granade in his hand, you can actually tornado in the top of his head so it won't hit the granade but it will hit snake.
Hope that helps
Fakinha
Smash Rookie
If a Snake if non stoping using granades, you can dash or simply walk and grab - fthrow/bthrow him. The granade won't explode and it may mess up with his granade time and/or mind. Just be careful with ftilts or jabs. I do that some times and It works fairly good.
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
I'll have to disagree with Ksizzle, i think that the matchup is even or could even be 55:45 snake advantage.
grenade camping works VERY well vs mk if done correctly.
also if you make the slightest mistake you will instantly take A LOT of damage... I.E. missing a grab = f tilts always
your offstage options against him are very good, but a good snake won't be pushed off the stage so easily.
on stage it is DEFINITELY his favor though.
Snake can kill you soooo much easier than you can kill him, if you can't get him off stage and edgeguard him for a kill, you won't be killing him until 160% most likely.
I think snake is the hardest character to fight with mk and one of the only characters that can counter pick him.
if you ban fd, they will go halberd. if you ban halberd, they will go fd.
both stages work very well for snake.
grenade camping works VERY well vs mk if done correctly.
also if you make the slightest mistake you will instantly take A LOT of damage... I.E. missing a grab = f tilts always
your offstage options against him are very good, but a good snake won't be pushed off the stage so easily.
on stage it is DEFINITELY his favor though.
Snake can kill you soooo much easier than you can kill him, if you can't get him off stage and edgeguard him for a kill, you won't be killing him until 160% most likely.
I think snake is the hardest character to fight with mk and one of the only characters that can counter pick him.
if you ban fd, they will go halberd. if you ban halberd, they will go fd.
both stages work very well for snake.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Metaknight ***** snake, I've seen it with my own eyes. It doesn't matter how good, or how campy the snake is. Mk has so much options to stop him. Gimps is all. Probably 55-45 mk.
This.
If snake accidentally blows himself up = gimp
Snake loses 2nd jump = gimp
Snake loses a mixup = gimp
Snake airdodges = gimp
Snake can go even for 2 stocks but if he gets gimped once he loses. Its incredibly gay. I'd go with somewhere between 55-45 and 60-40.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
yea everyone disagree with shadow
it depends how good you are in the matchup. as i said before, dont make dumb mistakes by dairing his grenades or something lol. if ur close what do they do? they f tilt. u shield and GRAB! they take out grenado, while they take it out. GRAB. practice the matchup
it depends how good you are in the matchup. as i said before, dont make dumb mistakes by dairing his grenades or something lol. if ur close what do they do? they f tilt. u shield and GRAB! they take out grenado, while they take it out. GRAB. practice the matchup
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
I think it's 55:45 or maybe a little better but not quite 6:4, it's pretty even without MK getting gimps but when he gets that too it's in his favor by a decent margin. Snake can make it pretty difficult to approach and gets a lot of damage any time you make a mistake in doing so, but once you have him off his feet you can pile a ton of damage on him and kill him a lot of the time.
it should be noted that snake is totally unable to air dodge or do anything for like half a second after using the cypher, as well, if you can run off stage and catch up to him before this point he's dead unless you mess up.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
um not really. i had ally in pools at CoT4 and this is before i knew this matchup greatly. all i knew how to was camp like a gay. and still went last hit with him there
Im not trying to sound arrogant. Ally won because hes simply a better player but the matchup definetely goes to MK.
omg i kant beleev u'd camp liek dat u need 2 approch snaek 2 win bc he can outcamp you w/ granades an morters.um not really. i had ally in pools at CoT4 and this is before i knew this matchup greatly. all i knew how to was camp like a gay. and still went last hit with him there
Im not trying to sound arrogant. Ally won because hes simply a better player but the matchup definetely goes to MK.
Snake can only really hurt you if you airdodge to the ground around him. Tech chasing and Ftilt are the only things that do real damage and getting hit by a couple of those wont hurt in comparison to what happens to snake if he whiffs ANYTHING.yea everyone disagree with shadow
it depends how good you are in the matchup. as i said before, dont make dumb mistakes by dairing his grenades or something lol. if ur close what do they do? they f tilt. u shield and GRAB! they take out grenado, while they take it out. GRAB. practice the matchup
My brother mains snake so learning to find openings became easy.
I think its.
50-50 on FD/Halberd/PS1
55-45 on BF/SF/Yoshi/Lylat
60-40 on most other CPs
65-35 on Frigate/RBC
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
i would agree with it being 55:45 in snake's favor... but i don't think it's 60:40.yea everyone disagree with shadow
it depends how good you are in the matchup. as i said before, dont make dumb mistakes by dairing his grenades or something lol. if ur close what do they do? they f tilt. u shield and GRAB! they take out grenado, while they take it out. GRAB. practice the matchup
in this situation that you have here, what most snakes have been doing lately is EXPECTING you to expect the f tilts, so they just grab you as you wait there. he has much more ground options than you think.
Redhalberd- i really think that on FD and halberd the matchup goes into 55-45 snake's favor. i don't see why it would be even for snake on PS1... i like that stage a lot vs him and would think it would still be 55-45 on it for mk. 65-35 on frigate is something i'd argue with though, i'd say 60-40 because you can die at around 80% from and up tilt O_O. i know the stage is very good for gimping but he can kill mk at very low percents and the sliding platform that appears can save snake at times too.
I think that Delfino is a better cp than frigate and could be 65:35.
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
did u guys talk about lucario? had random problems with one most of it was just me being dumb making mistakes but honestly if u let him to 150% his fsmash kilss at 60.
how do u guys gimp one that nows how to recover smart
how do u guys gimp one that nows how to recover smart
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
Snake is pretty darn good on frigate. I think that it is 50:50 on that stage. Most other stages (except for maybe Halberd), it is either 55:45 or 60:40 mk advantage.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Please don't de-rail the current discussion topic.
Stay on the Snake match-up for now. We'll get to Lucario eventually.
Also, so everyone knows, each we'll be discussing match-ups by simply going with the order of the match-ups in the OP. I'll then write a summary of what all came out of the discussion. Then the match-ups will be re-organized by difficulty after all match-up ratios have been decided.
Master Raven
Smash Master
I'm not going to write down why I think this at the moment but 55/45 MK right now sounds reasonable ONLY because Snake in the air = he's ****ed, and how easy it is to gimp him, but don't take my word for it. It'd probably be even for sure if Snake wasn't so vulnerable in the air.
Master Raven
Smash Master
lol beat you to it.
The reality against snake is that the amount of mix ups you have always allows you to either outsmart or outpressure him. Whenever snake loses a mixup it can lead to extremely bad things unless MK makes a bad decision/messes up or Snake treats it perfectly/guesses right.
But yeah it's possibly in snakes favor on those stages. But I dont see how you can like PS1, as it has everything that's bad about FD. Snake can probably camp even better there than on FD. In general I think smaller stages always favor MK, but that's me.
If you DI the Utilt on frigate you still wont be dying till 100+, and generally Snake shouldn't hit you with an Utilt till you're past the point where you have any chance of surviving it. Snake might be good on Frigate but I've never played on that's done well there anyway so....
Also, a quick tip, Snake can't kill you until 160ish if you don't approach him. =D
capemkills
Smash Journeyman
Im going to put in my 2 cents worth, with mind games aside.
MK has a difficult time approaching snake if the snake is being played properly. Snakes Ftilt is longer then any move that mk has, plain and simple. Wanna try to dash grab him? i dont think so because snake (atleast NOPE, who is a snake i play daily) will pivot grab your **** all day, and there begins some nasty tech chase. Once snake grabs you, you are in for a hurting, much like if you were to get snake into the air. Sure, snake can be gimped fairly easy, if the snake isn't recovering properly. A good snake will recover above the stage so that he cannot be shuttle looped, sure there are occasions where you can shuttle loop them before they cypher high, but those cases aren't as likely as you might think. Once the snake is above the map, here comes the nades falling from the sky as to protect him on his way down. Uairs work wonders here.
Lets talk about killing moves. Halberd said above that snake can't kill you unless you approach him. Well snake has grenades which are honestly one of the best projectiles in the game...they force you to approach him if he is good at throwing them. Back on the subject of killing moves, snake has Utilt, which kills around 110% (with DI) on most stages, lowering % on some stages. His Bair is also nasty and has killing potential, especially if the MK does not see it coming. Mk has some decent killing moves...of course the Dsmash, but on a snake it doesnt kill till around 140-155% (depending on location of stage and if snake is hit with the front or back part of smash), grounded shuttle loop, but that doesnt kill snake till around 170% on most stages.
I think this matchup is about 50-50, but i can easily see this matchup turning in snakes favor 55-45 in the near future
MK has a difficult time approaching snake if the snake is being played properly. Snakes Ftilt is longer then any move that mk has, plain and simple. Wanna try to dash grab him? i dont think so because snake (atleast NOPE, who is a snake i play daily) will pivot grab your **** all day, and there begins some nasty tech chase. Once snake grabs you, you are in for a hurting, much like if you were to get snake into the air. Sure, snake can be gimped fairly easy, if the snake isn't recovering properly. A good snake will recover above the stage so that he cannot be shuttle looped, sure there are occasions where you can shuttle loop them before they cypher high, but those cases aren't as likely as you might think. Once the snake is above the map, here comes the nades falling from the sky as to protect him on his way down. Uairs work wonders here.
Lets talk about killing moves. Halberd said above that snake can't kill you unless you approach him. Well snake has grenades which are honestly one of the best projectiles in the game...they force you to approach him if he is good at throwing them. Back on the subject of killing moves, snake has Utilt, which kills around 110% (with DI) on most stages, lowering % on some stages. His Bair is also nasty and has killing potential, especially if the MK does not see it coming. Mk has some decent killing moves...of course the Dsmash, but on a snake it doesnt kill till around 140-155% (depending on location of stage and if snake is hit with the front or back part of smash), grounded shuttle loop, but that doesnt kill snake till around 170% on most stages.
I think this matchup is about 50-50, but i can easily see this matchup turning in snakes favor 55-45 in the near future
Excellence
Smash Champion
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
snake wins online
mk wins offline ^_^
mk wins offline ^_^
Affinity
Smash Hero
Please don't de-rail the current discussion.
Snake discussion will end this Sunday, then we'll probably start with the MK mirror (or I may save that for last; don't know yet).
Toneh
Smash Lord
I main em both, i think its 50:50 ^_^
Its such a fun matchup.
Snake gets rocked in the air but there are ways for him to get back down. Snake has to make sure not to make bad mistakes which sets himself up for a gimp. He has to be super experienced against MK's and good with nades to make it even.
Snake can get gimped but normally he lives long bc hes super heavy and MK is light so MK cant make too many mistakes or hes in up-tilt range. So it balances out. And then theres snake's down-throw to watch out for lol.
Which ever person is playing better will win.
Bigger stages like FD work better for Snake bc its harder for MK to gimp him and gives him more room to work with nades and stuff.
I wanna look back ina year and see if i still think the same thing lol, since im not super pro yet.
Snake is one of those characters that keeps getting better over time bc you can do so much with him.
So this could change later on.
Its such a fun matchup.
Snake gets rocked in the air but there are ways for him to get back down. Snake has to make sure not to make bad mistakes which sets himself up for a gimp. He has to be super experienced against MK's and good with nades to make it even.
Snake can get gimped but normally he lives long bc hes super heavy and MK is light so MK cant make too many mistakes or hes in up-tilt range. So it balances out. And then theres snake's down-throw to watch out for lol.
Which ever person is playing better will win.
Bigger stages like FD work better for Snake bc its harder for MK to gimp him and gives him more room to work with nades and stuff.
I wanna look back ina year and see if i still think the same thing lol, since im not super pro yet.
Snake is one of those characters that keeps getting better over time bc you can do so much with him.
So this could change later on.
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
are you taking all of the posts into consideration? i hope so >_<
also, can you post your opinion on the matchup so i can get a general idea of what you will probably rate it as?
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
the other 10% has to go to wario.
Popertop
Smash Champion
hey shadow how well do you place in your region?
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
i have pretty good placements recently. out of my last ten~ tourneys i have gotten top 3 in all of them except for 3 of them.... those 3 were regional sized tournaments in which i got top 10 still... and about 4 of those that i placed top 3 in were regionals as well. i generally place pretty well.
why do you ask sir? this is certainly not important to this thread O_O
Popertop
Smash Champion
I was just wondering. lol.
I've never played my best in tournament, and I don't play consistent really, so my placings are terrible.
I've never played my best in tournament, and I don't play consistent really, so my placings are terrible.
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