Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[Nic64]

I lol'd so hard. This is what I'm gonna post from now on whenever someone calls me out for trolling these boards.

no one complains when you do it though <_<

 

[PyroSpark]

MK vs IC is 70-30 in MKs favor. Denfensive AND smart MKs are IMPOSSIBLE to grab in this MU.

 

[Nic64]

IC's don't necessarily need a grab to win if your entire playstyle has been turned to focus on "don't get grabbed", it takes MK off of his normal game and inhibits much of what he may normally do. I think it's 55:45 MK to 6:4, but definitely not 7:3.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Link is calling you out, http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=144

Beware.

 

[Affinity]

We're discussing IC's now?

 

[Mew2King]

LMFAO @ "Ally" instead of "Snake"

Candy also beat Dojo 2-1, and Dojo ***** DSF's Snake pretty hard at WHOBO.

I'm pretty sure Candy won a money match vs Dojo 2-0 and then beat Dojo in bracket 2-1

not only that, but the game that Dojo won was over 120% last stock. That's 2nd best Snake vs 2nd best MK

I'm convinced it's the most even matchup in the game, same exact as Marth vs Fox in Melee.

I also think MK vs ICs are even

Other characters are still undeveloped for the most part

wait for more time to pass, hopefully the other chars will be developed

popularity is the biggest problem with this

 

[meepxzero]

lol m2k sees the future ;P

if me and lain fused we would be the ultimate mk slayer cuz were both amazing in different areas of the ic game.

 

[lain]

Ban Brinstar, they'd go to Rainbow, which means 2-0's across the board LOLLL

 

[Crizthakidd]

brinstar and rainbow are the besttt cp for icies

i still dont know where to take snake tho LOL i used to think delfino but....

 

[Nic64]

delfino is actually a bad pick against snake IMO, a couple of the stage transforms don't really offer an opportunity to gimp him, you saw what he can do in the water, and coming up through the main platform against him doesn't work well like it does on other characters. Battlefield is good but there isn't a super gay near auto win against him aside from RC which he will ban.

 

[Affinity]

Battlefield and Rainbow Cruise are your best choices against Snake.

 

[Gates]

no one complains when you do it though <_<

That's cause they can't touch this.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

That's cause they can't touch this.

XD this is the second time you made me fall out my chair in class

 

[meepxzero]

RC is a good stage for ic. Im actually thinkin its better than smashville now.

 

[Shadow 111]

RC is a good stage for ic. Im actually thinkin its better than smashville now.

LOL, are you serious? I understand if it's your personal preference, but it can't be good for icys vs mk.... you are barely grounded and mk can just camp you by jumping from platform to platform.. it'd be impossible to get a grab off. right?!?!?! >_> lol

 

[meepxzero]

ic camp easier on certain spots. the only bad spot would be the part going up. you can spam ice blocks pretty badly on the end (long area) and the boat area. if you land a grab on mk at low percents (long area at the end) u can pretty much dthrow cg them to the edge and dthrow fsmash instead of infiniting.

I guess a lot of gimmicky things ic can do on this stage with ice blocks make up for the horrid part where u have to go up.

Its not that bad ic just have to take a lead and camp. Its even harder to approach ic imo on this stage than regular neutrals.

also think ic do good on frigate because its the smallest stage in brawl. (first transformation).

 

[Tarmogoyf]

also think ic do good on frigate because its the smallest stage in brawl. (first transformation).

Absolute truth. It's just an edgeless neutral.

 

[Gates]

XD this is the second time you made me fall out my chair in class

That's what she said.

 

[xsephirot]

T_T

Mad respect but you will be missed. I'm sorta wanting to drop MK after this as well...

After M2K lost to Ally and Lain its like I lost Inspiration to be amazing with MK. It makes you want to strive for something even more amazing.....

LMAO. You lost hope in a character because you feel like the character is no longer invincible? Lemme tell you, I have a friend who plays one of the best Link and above average Samus because he likes those characters even though they are terribly low on the tier list. But he doesn't care cause he has fun and that's all that really matters.

edit* I will say this though, IC's when fully masatered (and I believe they are the hardest character by far to master) will be above and beyond all else on the tier list. Even Lain who is considered the best IC hasn't fully mastered all of their desynch moves and whatnot. It's just scary to think what the ICs can do

 

[Xyro77]

i cannot believe you are re-discussing this topic..........

 

[FunkMaster]

i can't imagine that snake has an advantage over metaknight.
same for ice climbers.

Even at best or worst for either one, (concerning Snake. I still think Metaknight has a bit of an advantage against Snake) in which case coming up with a specific number such as 55:45 or 52:48 is a little petty and meaningless.

I find it hard to believe that Ice Climbers would be equally matched with Metaknight as well. So what if Ice Climbers can kill you from a single grab? You're Metaknight. Too many Metaknights play offensivley against them I think. What they need to do if they're really scared about their grab is get a lead on them then run away. Not necessarily ledge camping but running away like Wario can. It's not like Ice Blocks are that great against someone with five jumps, is a small target, and has a sword. Maybe people should begin playing their Metaknight's with a hit and run strategy with "running the timer" as a base for the strategy. Obviously this will not apply to every character and will vary among those it does work against.

I don't think Metaknight has a huge advantage over Ice Climbers, but I certainly don't think it's 50:50 either.

I dunno. Whatever. Maybe it's not my place to talk about this as I live in Alaska.

 

[Affinity]

LMAO. You lost hope in a character because you feel like the character is no longer invincible? Lemme tell you, I have a friend who plays one of the best Link and above average Samus because he likes those characters even though they are terribly low on the tier list. But he doesn't care cause he has fun and that's all that really matters.

edit* I will say this though, IC's when fully masatered (and I believe they are the hardest character by far to master) will be above and beyond all else on the tier list. Even Lain who is considered the best IC hasn't fully mastered all of their desynch moves and whatnot. It's just scary to think what the ICs can do

Who are you?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Affinity, why do you think Battlefield is good against Snake? He can camp like a ***** on the platforms and getting grabbed by him there is extremely dangerous. Battlefield is one of the best stages for a campy Snake imo and I don't see what benefits MK gets from that stage. I'd rather take him to Pokemon Stadium...

I also don't think Rainbow Cruise is a bad stage for Snake...MK surely has the advantage there but it's by no means auto win. Snake can kill you very easily, at some parts a lot earlier than on Halberd (which is Snakes best CP against MK). The only iffy part is where the stage moves upwards but as long as Snake manages to keep a grenade between him and MK it's not that bad.
Also small platforms help Snake like nobody else since he can control them so well with mines, grenades and dthrow chases...the match-up can easily turn in Snakes favour even on a stage like RC...

 

[-Jumpman-]

Well, I doubt that would happen on RC, but w/e. It's banned here. Snake has the advantage on BF though, because of the platforms.

 

[Nic64]

Affinity, why do you think Battlefield is good against Snake? He can camp like a ***** on the platforms and getting grabbed by him there is extremely dangerous. Battlefield is one of the best stages for a campy Snake imo and I don't see what benefits MK gets from that stage. I'd rather take him to Pokemon Stadium...

BF is a good snake stage against a lot of opponents, it just doesn't work well against MK because MK makes much better use of the platforms than he does. While it's a great camping stage for snake, it's also a horrible "snake gets ***** every time he gets in the air" stage. And how often does a not incompetent MK get grabbed on the platforms here? pokemon stadium is a much better stage for snake, it also encourages his camping and gives him a much better chance at not getting destroyed every time his feet leave the ground.

 

[Affinity]

Affinity, why do you think Battlefield is good against Snake? He can camp like a ***** on the platforms and getting grabbed by him there is extremely dangerous. Battlefield is one of the best stages for a campy Snake imo and I don't see what benefits MK gets from that stage. I'd rather take him to Pokemon Stadium...

Well, I doubt that would happen on RC, but w/e. It's banned here. Snake has the advantage on BF though, because of the platforms.

Nooooo. Meta Knight ***** Snake on Battlefield.

Snake doesn't have enough space to camp on BF. Also, the platforms give Meta Knight the advantage. They make it easy to juggle Snake and keep him in the air; they also protect you from mortars. There are other reasons as well.

Bans:

* Battlefield : Meta Knight can really destroy a Snake on this stage. MK is capable of doing combos that can take away a full stock from Snake. Avoid this stage at all costs.

 

[xsephirot]

Who are you?

And who are you?? You sound like a little 12 year old who thinks he is as hotshot and people should bow down to you in a world where people don't give a crap.

 

[Affinity]

And who are you?? You sound like a little 12 year old who thinks he is as hotshot and people should bow down to you in a world where people don't give a crap.

No, not really. No need to overreact.

From your post, it just seems that you're not very experienced in the Brawl metagame. You probably shouldn't be criticizing RedHalberd for what he may choose to do with his main.

 

[Tero.]

People, relax.

Affinity: I think we should move on, maybe we should discuss IC's next?

 

[Affinity]

Sure. IC's discussion will continue until May 24th.

NEXT MATCH-UP​

Week 3 - Ice Climbers

 

[Master Raven]

We should get some input from not just Lain and Meep, but also Judged, as he seems to have more ICs experience (with Lain) than any other MK right now.

 

[bludhoundz]

Ban FD I think..

If you watched M2k vs lain, you saw that he was able to gay them to the fullest by tornado -> retreat to a platform. On FD you have no platform to retreat to, so you can get grabbed out of it if they read you well.

Either way I think it's quite annoying for MK to approach but if you go in very patiently and space superbly (and camp to the fullest), then ICs just can't win.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

iI find it hard to believe that Ice Climbers would be equally matched with Metaknight as well. So what if Ice Climbers can kill you from a single grab? You're Metaknight. Too many Metaknights play offensivley against them I think. What they need to do if they're really scared about their grab is get a lead on them then run away. Not necessarily ledge camping but running away like Wario can. It's not like Ice Blocks are that great against someone with five jumps, is a small target, and has a sword. Maybe people should begin playing their Metaknight's with a hit and run strategy with "running the timer" as a base for the strategy. Obviously this will not apply to every character and will vary among those it does work against.

Uh, no. MK can't "run away like Wario" because MK has horrible air speed. (Seriously, like the 4th or 5th worst) If he tries to Dair camp, he will eat Uairs. He can't really avoid the ICs anywhere near as well as you seem to be saying. Being a small target doesn't help when you can desynch to force him into certian positions and make your attacks very difficult to avoid. And you HAVE to approach if you are down a stock, and approaching is a terrible idea against ICs, becuase it forces close combat, where MK can get grabbed.

I'm not trying to argue that ICs win or anything, but they are 50/50ish.

 

[Gates]

And who are you?? You sound like a little 12 year old who thinks he is as hotshot and people should bow down to you in a world where people don't give a crap.

That's hilarious.

This guy clearly has no idea who Affinity or RedHalberd are. He's either new or a troll. I'm hoping it's the former and it definitely seems to be going that way, but if it is the latter, welcome to the MK forums my brother.

 

[Dojo]

-You can actually dair camp, and if you space it correctly avoid the uair and hit them out of it. It's kind of tricky though.

-Always ban FD. It's not fun. Tornado and retreating to a platform is a good tactic. The worst that can happen is you eat an uair.

-Keeping them split up is vital. Less chance of a cg and a stronger chance of gimping Nana. Nair works really well to split them up.

-Be aware of getting grabbed before 40, even if they are split. Popo alone can chaingrab you til then allowing Nana to catch up, and that's not good.

-The walking blizzard is really gay and hard to get around if they do it right. The best thing you have is to approach from above and bait them to uair so you can punish from there.

-Their sideB is kind of annoying but you can eat it up with Nado, or nair/UpB them out of it to split them up off stage. The spacing for it is kind of hard. though.

^^Some small things to keep in mind. The matchup is close if they play it correctly.

 

[judge!]

NEVER go fd against IC. its almost impossable. u need platforms. The best stage is probeby SV for the neutrals. cp them to brinstar. if they ban brinstar go RC. be VERY careful if they stay ic on raimbow cruise they can still cg and kill at insanly low% there. there really is no *simple* way to beat IC. you HAVE to play super super campy and gay. run the timer if u must.

good stages

SV,YI

bad neutrals

BF,ps1,lylat

BAN!!!!

FD
PS2

reason why bf is horrid against them.

IC have an insane UAIR. and can rack up damage through them platforms freakin fast. they can also blizzard camp under platforms like a mad man. its very very hard to approach them. since u cant really go on the ground cause u risk being grabbed. strike bf right away.

reason for ps1 is bad. although not as bad as BF. its kinda like snake. ic wil make u come to them under the platforms and camp the **** out of u with UAIR ice blocks and desyched blizzard. but thet stage does switch so its not as bad.

why SV is such a good stage against ic.

SV is very very simple to camp ic with the moving platform. Ino iv personally just glided across the stage against them. it also gives u earlier chances for an UPB gimp if they land on there nana probebly wont shield it.

why YI is a good stage.

well the big platform in the middle is bad for ic to blizzard camp. since u can just move around it leaves one of the IC open for a second to long. thats about it. i dont think iv ever lost to lain on YI def my fav stage to fight him on.

WHAT TO DO AGAINST THE BLIZZARD.

till recently iv just waited for nana to jump and him them with a dair. but u can side DI the blizzards into a NAIR or DAIR. approach IC from the air at al times. retreat with nado to a platform. if u see a good chance to grab the IC do it. BUT! only do Fthrow. if u wanna run towards them do a shorthop nair into dair. if u see that has seperated nana try your best to gimp her skank ***. if not retreat to a platform.


hope this helps dont mind my typing

 

[Dojo]

if u see that has seperated nana try your best to gimp her skank ***.

I lol'd. xD

<3 Judge

 

[judge!]

<3 dojo


O YEA

and for the ****ing love of god stop freaking NAIR,ing nana when shes in the air the ***** cant di good ****in up b her shes dead

 

[xsephirot]

No, not really. No need to overreact.

From your post, it just seems that you're not very experienced in the Brawl metagame. You probably shouldn't be criticizing RedHalberd for what he may choose to do with his main.

I wasn't critizing him I was laughing and not comprehending why he wanted to switch a main just because M2K lost. And so he feels like he really has to work for his kills now to he doesn't want to play mk anymore.

 

[.AC.]

well,if both characters at the top of their metagame go somewhat even it also means that the matchup is somewhat even as well.