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Meta Knight Officially Banned!

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Orion*

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Ramin, your falco is booty. ZSS/Snake/Link/Marth are legit though.

But we all know you're an MK main.
Pretty much this.

His ZSS is kinda inbetween for me, he has some MU's he does well in and others.. not so much. I haven't played it irl in a little while, but his MK looks less ugly on wifi than it did vs leon a few months ago so I'm assuming some tech skill went into it as well.

Your falco is just *** though. You will never want to sit there and laser for 8 minutes for the matchups you have to do that in.

SO MUCH THIS; thank you Ramin. ^_^
I didn't know that you liked to suck his **** also. :awesome:
 

Steam

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No...
Even ones. Yeah. But he's good on all stages, with no bad MU's.
regardless he doesn't dominate melee like MK does brawl. but honestly if fox doesn't take nationals with decent consistency I wouldn't say he doesn't have bad matchups.

though MK doesn't have any even matchups :glare:
 

Grim Tuesday

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Falco and Marth vs. Fox could be considered to be very slightly in their favour, especially in PAL.

Contrast to MK who has no MUs that are even or close to it. He beats every character squarely and fairly.
 

Cygnet

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Just to clarify, how is an even matchup objectively defined?

MK can lose, MK can win - according ratios are confounded based on player skill, stages used, and natural variation, among other things. How do you know if something is really even? (Or not.)
 

Cygnet

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So you can't really say for sure that MK has no even matchups or that he does, right?

Should MUs even be a valid point of contention if it's only subjective?
 

da K.I.D.

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when its discussed and talked about at length by many intelligent, knowledgable, logical people, it can turn something subjective, into a usable point of data, thats as close to objective as possible
 

Cygnet

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Very true.

But regarding MUs, there are intelligent, knowledgeable, logical people on both sides of the argument, including the MK MU argument, so before a conclusion is reached (which doesn't seem likely, neither side looks like it's going to budge), can this data point be of any meaning? It would be wrong to conclude that one side is correct because they are greater in number, because number does not invalidate logical points, but regarding logic, neither side is objectively correct (or there would be no debate), so can anything be concluded from MUs?
 

Orion*

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Just to clarify, how is an even matchup objectively defined?
In simplicity, you can't. It's all opinions, no facts - even people like steam who want to base everything they do on "results". Unless this ***** wants to show me some data analyzed, in the end it's either how he interpreted the data (opinion and may or may not be false), or just him kinda looking at results threads. I'm not saying don't look at results, or make matchups or tier lists, or don't theory craft. But in the end you can agree or disagree, but always take it with a grain of salt. Just play the game and get better.
 

Orion*

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when its discussed and talked about at length by many intelligent, knowledgable, logical people, it can turn something subjective, into a usable point of data, thats as close to objective as possible
Pretty much this though. But like. Most people aren't :glare:

obv it doesnt take a genius to realize mk makes ganon the free'est character ever.
MK vs other top tiers though? Numbers are still changing. Mind you MK probably goes even or beats all of them, I don't think any character is beating MK unless Diddys start legit doing setups for SNLs or ICs become amazingly better.

Olimars quite the ****** as well
 

Spelt

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I didn't ''switch'' to mk, why is it that when I use snake/zss/falco/link in tourney people don't say stuff like that but when I use mk once '' I switched to him'' :glare:
Because people know it's going to happen eventually.
 

Ghostbone

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Just to clarify, how is an even matchup objectively defined?

MK can lose, MK can win - according ratios are confounded based on player skill, stages used, and natural variation, among other things. How do you know if something is really even? (Or not.)
Well, no match-up (not even dittos due to port priority) is exactly 50-50, but there's a point where it doesn't really matter if it's actually 51.1347-48.8653, for all intents and purposes the match-up is even.
 

Mr-R

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Pretty much this.

His ZSS is kinda inbetween for me, he has some MU's he does well in and others.. not so much. I haven't played it irl in a little while, but his MK looks less ugly on wifi than it did vs leon a few months ago so I'm assuming some tech skill went into it as well.

Your falco is just *** though. You will never want to sit there and laser for 8 minutes for the matchups you have to do that in.



I didn't know that you liked to suck his **** also. :awesome:
MM my falco saturday :awesome:
 

Dre89

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Very true.

But regarding MUs, there are intelligent, knowledgeable, logical people on both sides of the argument, including the MK MU argument, so before a conclusion is reached (which doesn't seem likely, neither side looks like it's going to budge), can this data point be of any meaning? It would be wrong to conclude that one side is correct because they are greater in number, because number does not invalidate logical points, but regarding logic, neither side is objectively correct (or there would be no debate), so can anything be concluded from MUs?
You should do a philosophy degree.

Next this guy is going to start arguing that there's no such things as 'mains' and 'secondaries', they they're just arbitrary terms that have no meaning.
 

Sorto

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Isn't the URCs rules about stickying only tournaments that use URCs rulesets an abuse of power?

:phone:
 

Doc King

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One thing I would like to mention about the mk banned thing is that even though mk dosen't use many AT's, he was still able to overdominant the brawl metagame. Imagine what mk would be like if he got many AT's. MK would be like SSSSSSSSSS Tier.
 

tekkie

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One thing I would like to mention about the mk banned thing is that even though mk dosen't use many AT's, he was still able to overdominant the brawl metagame. Imagine what mk would be like if he got many AT's. MK would be like SSSSSSSSSS Tier.
infinite dimensional cape is an AT. and yes it would make him ssssssssssssssss tier if it was legal lol
 

Orion*

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One thing I would like to mention about the mk banned thing is that even though mk dosen't use many AT's, he was still able to overdominant the brawl metagame. Imagine what mk would be like if he got many AT's. MK would be like SSSSSSSSSS Tier.
Like.

I realized when i read this that I haven't thought of advance techniques like that in a long time. It's just a game mechanic... Brawl is basic anyway, most characters dont need AT's as long as you're smart and space well.

Fine as long as you also don't go falco, YOU KNOW the ditto is stupid xD
You scared bro? :troll:
I got this though

falco dittos are fantastic, i dont know what you are talking about.
He's used to playing them vs me on wifi lmao. And it's quite horribad there.
 

Thino

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So lazy and internet being too slow to read all the previous pages, someone sum me up why MUs determine that a character is broken

:phone:
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Same as Xubble. And he did not, ShadowLink84.

Also, people really shouldn't write off the whole "making rules for Meta Knight" factor. Okay, maybe we didn't make a ton of them. But that's so far the best suggestion people have given to currently keep him legal, rather proving that point. Just saying.
 
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