Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Steam]

a majority the top 100 players are pro-ban you know...

and MK frame traps into things for free pretty much all the time. Often times dodging his Uair frame traps you into shuttle loop. which can kill at like 50% depending on the situation.

 

[Doc King]

Toon Link.

Anyway, it isn't just that. Meta Knight didn't just destroy characters, he destroyed them with ease. Quick question: Do you think it was Dedede that was keeping DK from placing well? A good DK can beat a pocket Dedede, and Dedede mains are pretty rare, so I doubt that was the reason...

No, the reason DK doesn't place well is because the most common character in the game completely ***** him on every stage with so little difficulty that even pocket MKs can do it.



He breaks the counterpick system because it is impossible to gain an advantage over him. It is impossible to gain an advantage on your counter-pick (which is what they are designed for) if your opponent either mains or has a pocket MK, no exceptions.



Hardly, stalling and camping are two very different things. The distinction is that stalling actually stalls out the game. A beatable (in theory) tactic like Meta Knight's planking is just an extremely strong defensive position, you can't assume that the MK is trying to stall the game out, he is trying to maintain an advantage. On the other hand, if MK was extending his dimensional cape indefinitely he is actively trying to stall the match until time runs out.

Well to think of it, a lot of tournaments back then banned the standing infinite and walk off back then and there hasn't been a tourney match where D3 was able to do the standing infinite or the walk off on DK. So therefore, it wasn't just D3 holding him back. It was a lot about mk too. MK's nado was just so supreme on DK. Probably other characters such as Falco holded him back too. His defense to combos was just way too poor.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Akuma was unbeatable. Free frame traps into guaranteed supers. MK is beatable, it's just difficult, like Eddie in GG. There's a difference.

For the high tiers, yeah our community however said he was worse than Eddie but not as bad as Akuma, that said he still got the hammer.

There will be more people who do what MK did with other characters and it will completely shut certain characters down. G&W and Pit can ledge stall out characters like Fox, Falco, and Wolf like crazy. What are we going to do about that with MK gone? Still have a LGL? Real productive.

IDC is comparable to Sonic's B Homing Attack under the stage. It's bound to be banned and it's not because "it's Meta knight."

I'm only slightly scared of G&W's planking, Pit's I'm not. They suck at dealing with it, their problem. Still of the opinion we should remove it.

IDC we're on the same page.

The community at a high level know MK isn't broken enough to be banned. He has been beaten time and time again. It's the people who go to tournaments and can't skillfully place who ***** and moan about the character. The people who made this decision host tournaments, they don't necessarily place well in them.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

60% of the people who voted said they wanted him banned.

I think if you want to ban MK at a tournament, go ahead, but if there are tournaments where MK isn't banned, they shouldn't be ignored because "they don't have the normal standard." The people behind the URC think they'd look like idiots if they count tournaments that don't ban MK while they ban him at their tournaments. It's like going to a high school club tournament that ban MK, Dedede, and IC because they "take the fun out of the game."

Well, right now it's fine, later when it becomes a standard it's run it or don't get unity support.

 

[Nairo]

When you first popped up in a tournament I had never heard of you and you were already ****** people left and right. I heard that ksizzle showed u the basics and u were just naturally beast at the game. And thats bs, no way you've been playing competitively for 3 years. I mean your account is from 2010. lol

ur implying i used this site from when i started? lol i barely use this site now as u can see with like little *** post amount lol i started in 08 and didnt go to much in 09 then i went to more stuff in 10 and started rapin since then

 

[~Tac~]

^ Unimportant and off-topic. Allow me to refresh the conversation.

Metaknight's banned in tournament. How do you feel about it? How don't you feel? Will you main Kirby now?

Discuss.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

MK never bothred me in tourney. The MKs I know will be fine, because
they are great at this game without MK.

As a player of a character that gets eaten alive by MK, I am glad he is gone.
As a general player though, I think this was a bad move.

I love Kirby. He is my secondary.
Conversation refreshed: please continue.

 

[Ghostbone]

I facepalm every time someone says that something like 65:35 is a hard counter.

Match-up ratios are dumb, nobody uses them right in the smash community, and people feel the need to be unnecessarily accurate, even though they're not precise at all. (looks at Pika boards).

9:1 isn't winnable, 8:2 is a hard counter, 7:3 is an advantage/soft counter, and 6:4 is a soft advantage.

Why can't people just use the +/- system, works a lot better for us...
Anyway looking at the match-up chart, I'd consider +2 a soft counter, and +3 a hard counter, but that's useless when discussing MK at the moment, since a lot of his match-ups are sugar coated >.>

But anyway characters that might do noticeably better without MK include most mid tiers really.
I mean you could say they have another character who counters them...but so do the high tiers, pretty much everyone besides Snake, Diddy and Ice Climbers (Marth?) have a counter.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Name match.

LOL my name comes from the Mortal kombat character Havik. It actually doesn't come from the real spelling of Havoc or the X-men character name Havok.

 

[Dre89]

Ok maybe someone can clarify this for me.

Let's momentarily suppose the anti-ban's straw-man arguments are correct, and he only got banned due to the fact that everyone dislikes him. If 70% of community which plays a game on arbitrary rules wants a character banned. and the 30% complain about it, what does the 70% owe the 30%? On what grounds can they complain?

They're not forced to go MK-banned tournaments, and having such a massive scene was a privellage to begin with. You're essentially telling people they have to play the game with certain arbitrary rules.

Some of them have complained that their MK-legal tournies won't be stickied here, but what have they done to earn the right to complain when a free service is no longer provided? They had a free service provided for them, for which they did nothing to earn, and then complain when it's gone?

I don't think some of these anti-bans realise how spoiled they're acting.

So can someone please tell me why a community is somehow obliged to play a game with arbitrary rules that they don't want to play with?

 

[Thino]

Ok maybe someone can clarify this for me.

Let's momentarily suppose the anti-ban's straw-man arguments are correct, and he only got banned due to the fact that everyone dislikes him. If 70% of community which plays a game on arbitrary rules wants a character banned. and the 30% complain about it, what does the 70% owe the 30%? On what grounds can they complain?

They're not forced to go MK-banned tournaments, and having such a massive scene was a privellage to begin with. You're essentially telling people they have to play the game with certain arbitrary rules.

Some of them have complained that their MK-legal tournies won't be stickied here, but what have they done to earn the right to complain when a free service is no longer provided? They had a free service provided for them, for which they did nothing to earn, and then complain when it's gone?

I don't think some of these anti-bans realise how spoiled they're acting.

So can someone please tell me why a community is somehow obliged to play a game with arbitrary rules that they don't want to play with?

My only pet peeve as anti-ban , is pro-bans that want to prove MK has been banned because he's broken.

Other than that I'm totally okay with having people playing by a certain ruleset and other people playing by another.

Everyone is free to play the game however they want and attend tournaments with ruleset that suits them.

I do find your argument about stickies a little weird though because it assumes the community works like a democracy, or else I don't understand either what Non-MK legal tourney have done to earn the right to be stickied except 70% of the community supporting it and having staff members that happen to be pro-ban.

My opinion is that, TOs could have decided by themselves to ban MK at their tournaments or not, without needing to make it so official, because everyone should be free to do whatever they want and not be treated differently just because they want to play the game differently or organize tournaments differently than the other 70% of the community.

 

[-LzR-]

Bring MK back. Ban Diddy Kong.
/end

 

[Karnu]

Bring MK back. Ban Diddy Kong.
/end

Agreed..........

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Bring MK back. Ban Diddy Kong.
/end

lol

It would be interesting to try to get Diddy mains or Falco mains to never touch their DownB or B buttons respectively.

 

[-LzR-]

Nah, Falco at least requires some thought to play

 

[Dre89]

My only pet peeve as anti-ban , is pro-bans that want to prove MK has been banned because he's broken.

Other than that I'm totally okay with having people playing by a certain ruleset and other people playing by another.

Everyone is free to play the game however they want and attend tournaments with ruleset that suits them.

I do find your argument about stickies a little weird though because it assumes the community works like a democracy, or else I don't understand either what Non-MK legal tourney have done to earn the right to be stickied except 70% of the community supporting it and having staff members that happen to be pro-ban.

My opinion is that, TOs could have decided by themselves to ban MK at their tournaments or not, without needing to make it so official, because everyone should be free to do whatever they want and not be treated differently just because they want to play the game differently or organize tournaments differently than the other 70% of the community.

With the stickies, neither side has earned that right, so if MK- banned tourneys lost their sticking privellages, and the pro bans complained, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

 

[Karnu]

Nah, Falco at least requires some thought to play

And Diddy is pretty much a monkey that throws to many nana's 0_o

 

[Smooth Criminal]

With the stickies, neither side has earned that right, so if MK- banned tourneys lost their sticking privellages, and the pro bans complained, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

But why, though?

I mean, what was so wrong with the rules for stickies beforehand? At least it didn't pander specifically to one side or the other. That's the biggest complaint here.

I guess I'm also salty about the fact that AZ is citing that since the decision was made at an administrative level (between JV, Neal, and himself), the rest of the community didn't have to get word in edgewise about it, even though it affects tournament play all across the board for all kinds of tournaments and directly involves the playerbase. Would it have hurt to get everyone else's feedback before making this mandatory?

Smooth Criminal

 

[NearZzz]

people are still arguing about this? wtfuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[Thino]

With the stickies, neither side has earned that right, so if MK- banned tourneys lost their sticking privellages, and the pro bans complained, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

If it is not a right that is earned, then what is the reason for this privilege given by the staff then?

it doesn't matter which side it is, for both cases it's not really fair.

 

[WindMajor]

I still don't see what the big fuss is about over stickies. They're just stickies.......

 

[Thino]

I still don't see what the big fuss is about over stickies. They're just stickies.......

but if they're "just stickies" then what is the big deal about treating all the tournament equally then..?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I still don't see what the big fuss is about over stickies. They're just stickies.......

Maybe if you don't go to tourneys, Twinkie, they're just stickies. It's not like it's a topic that you pin up at the top of a given board. It helps generate interest for anybody browsing for big regionals or nationals. It's also a matter of equality for all tournament-types. Why should I have to run the URC ruleset? What if I wanna run something like Jack Kieser's Item Tourneys?

I dunno, man. My biggest complaint is the fact that this bombshell was just dropped on us. Maybe if there had been a discussion of some kind between the community and the admins before a decision like this was reached, I'd probably be okay with it.

I forgot to mention: There's also the fact that AZ has plans to award people that follow the URC's ruleset with things aside from stickies---a rather blatant carrot-and-stick approach to things. Again, there's no discussion here with the rest of the community---just between the higher echelons.

Smooth Criminal

 

[WindMajor]

I'm a frequent tourney goer, and will hopefully be a future TO. Stickies/coverage or not, the message will get across, even though it's not always pinned up at the top of the page. People have been complaining over an abuse of power, but the way I see it, the power they are "abusing" is so minuscule that it's hard to see why people are making such a big fuss over it.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I find it kinda funny that stickies were hardly mentioned despite being this way for a while...

 

[TheSlothStyle]

I still don't see what the big fuss is about over stickies. They're just stickies.......

What are "stickies" exactly?

 

[WindMajor]

Stickies are forum threads that are stuck to the top of the page to prevent it from going into the 2nd page.

This thread would be a stickied thread, for example.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I made the original point.

Wait a ****ing minute.
Yuna posted?
I thought he died.

 

[rathy Aro]

Wait a ****ing minute.
Yuna posted?
I thought he died.

That's how you know the MK ban is serious. It revived Yuna.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

im surprised yall took this long to notice o3o.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I did, but auto ignored his posts. Kinda like how I used to more or less auto-ignore Inui's posts unless I saw Ike mentioned. Then I'd rip into them.

 

[TheSlothStyle]

Stickies are forum threads that are stuck to the top of the page to prevent it from going into the 2nd page.

This thread would be a stickied thread, for example.

Oh! That makes sense.

 

[Ripple]

people need to realize you can run the unity ruleset with rule changes and it can still get stickied.

just tell one of the URC members what ruleset changes you are doing and it'll count as official. the only catch is that you have to report the data.

it's so the urc can update ruleset changes easier and with concrete data. which, if you want to make this community better, you should do this

 

[**Havok**]

LOL my name comes from the Mortal kombat character Havik. It actually doesn't come from the real spelling of Havoc or the X-men character name Havok.

What does it sound like when you say it out loud?

Name match.

lol

 

[Orion*]

To some people talking about Nintendo and their lead and stuff

http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/the-decline-of-console-video-games-is-upon-us
Please read....
It's sad really

jesus... cant even read this in one sitting :|
to depressing

 

[da K.I.D.]

all that time away kind of eroded yunas debate skills as far as i could tell.

it was kinda sad lol.

 

[vVv Rapture]

jesus... cant even read this in one sitting :|
to depressing

Yeah I read the entire thing.

I think I need to upgrade my computer.

 

[fkacyan]

So what? He wasn't trying to put his wins on a pedestal or anything...he was simply telling the truth. What I find even more annoying is when people talk like they're hot **** or constantly downplay other people around them when they themselves don't win anything. It is the essence of an aimless hater, honestly; and I see a lot of that going on from some of the more frequent posters on the tactical boards for whatever reason.

OS doesn't put his wins on a pedestal?

He was literally bragging about living off of Smash in a region where he beats Bowsers in the post I was referring to. If that's not a pedestal, what the **** is?

You can dismiss what I say as the words of an "aimless hater" if it makes you feel better, I guess.

 

[Orion*]

I'm really surprised that, after 291 pages of *****ing, people who are anti-ban still continue to *****

Well in all fairness their main for the past few YEARS has been banned.
Somehow the fact that you're *****ing about people *****ing makes me more upset in this situation, especially considering that since this is SWF it's to be expected

ZSS and lucario become much better also.

No... : |

if -3 = hard counter: Ike (MK is his only -3)

if -2 = hard counter then Ike has only 1 (Olimar)

Ike is ****ing *** anyways though. Don't get me wrong like, he can win, but you almost always have to outskill your opponent by a very significant margin.

Because I'm asking you to prove something you cannot prove? Nice refutation!

I put him on ignore...
and i never regret it

I made the original point.

LMAO
get *****

 

[Eddie G]

OS doesn't put his wins on a pedestal?

He was literally bragging about living off of Smash in a region where he beats Bowsers in the post I was referring to. If that's not a pedestal, what the **** is?

You can dismiss what I say as the words of an "aimless hater" if it makes you feel better, I guess.

Pedestal or not, he was simply telling the truth, and you're pouring salt over it for...whatever reason. You seem to do that a lot, actually.

 

[fkacyan]

Pedestal or not, he was simply telling the truth, and you're pouring salt over it for...whatever reason. You seem to do that a lot, actually.

Truth = "Lol wasn't I so right when I said he was broken" ?

MK's not broken.

OS is attempting to use this ban to justify his idiotic attempt a year and a half ago which was based on completely different pretenses.

Peach mains are always so goddamn touchy about everything.